Cosmo Canyon

This town came up in the other thread about Nibelheim, and since I already planned to make this thread, here we are. How did you like Cosmos Canyon and who did you take with you to see grandpa's holographic room? I chose Aerith and Barrett since I thought they had the most to gain from the experience.

I enjoy Cosmos Canyon overall. I feel it's the moment where you really feel what's at stake with the planet by hearing its cries of agony and it feels like where this new AVALANCHE really begins. I still get teary eye when Red XIII learns the truth about his dad, too.

Cosmo Canyon is my favourite location in the entire game. It helps that time in Cosmo Canyon has stopped and it's always sunset.

The story of Nanaki and Seto is just fantastic. The music at that point (along with Nanaki howling) always moves me too.

AWWOOOOOOOOO...

*sobs*

Yeah, the bonfire scene is really quite excellent. I dig the planetarium but it always did confuse me a little how he has a perfect model of the planet that he can manipulate but that also reflects real world events also. I just... how? Bugenhagen what are you smoking brother and where can I get some?

Great atmosphere at the part. As someone who enjoys space in real life a lot, I would kill for a holographic/interactive astronomy room like Bugenhagen has in real life.

I love Cosmo Canyon. Even the music is excellent. And I like that Red XIII finally gets some front and center time.

I love it, but I still get smurfing lost in the ladder maze every time I go :shobon:

Why?

As to Cosmo Canyon as a whole, I feel it's generally not as much a bother being force-fed exposition about the Planet AVALANCHE is trying to save, but being forced to escort Nanaki down to the Canyon's gritty unders was just epically not awesome. It served no point other than to give Nanaki some form of backstory and drive which I suppose the same could be said of Barret at Gold Saucer but Barret had been a core member from the beginning of the game. Nanaki could just as easily been made into a wandering character like Shadow from FF6. Still, I think Barret's story along with Cid's were both integrated pretty seamlessly into the core plot. The Cloud-Tifa-Aerith story pretty much was the core plot. Nanaki is the only one with whom I feel they said, "we need an excuse to give Red XIII a backstory, let's have their Buggy break, force-feed them some exposition and then force them to go on a quest which has nothing to do with the rest of the story." I mean, at least Barret's story with Dyne still was connected to ShinRa. Nanaki's story didn't have that going for it. It was just utter... I don't know what to call it. It wasn't even an infodump... because there really was nothing else to learn after leaving the observatory. There was no point to going down there.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Why?

As to Cosmo Canyon as a whole, I feel it's generally not as much a bother being force-fed exposition about the Planet AVALANCHE is trying to save, but being forced to escort Nanaki down to the Canyon's gritty unders was just epically not awesome. It served no point other than to give Nanaki some form of backstory and drive which I suppose the same could be said of Barret at Gold Saucer but Barret had been a core member from the beginning of the game. Nanaki could just as easily been made into a wandering character like Shadow from FF6. Still, I think Barret's story along with Cid's were both integrated pretty seamlessly into the core plot. The Cloud-Tifa-Aerith story pretty much was the core plot. Nanaki is the only one with whom I feel they said, "we need an excuse to give Red XIII a backstory, let's have their Buggy break, force-feed them some exposition and then force them to go on a quest which has nothing to do with the rest of the story." I mean, at least Barret's story with Dyne still was connected to ShinRa. Nanaki's story didn't have that going for it. It was just utter... I don't know what to call it. It wasn't even an infodump... because there really was nothing else to learn after leaving the observatory. There was no point to going down there.

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I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

I would have been much more annoyed if they gave Nanaki no back story at all. I thought the story with Seto and the Gi Tribe was excellent and actually quite moving. Not to mention the music is here is one of my favourite pieces in the game. Shadow by his very nature and appearance was supposed to be mysterious. Him not having a back story and much development actually suited him as a character.

Considering Nanaki is a talking lion/wolf and he is introduced as one of Shinra's experiments, not giving him a back story would have been very lazy on the part of Squaresoft.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Why?

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Personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Why?

As to Cosmo Canyon as a whole, I feel it's generally not as much a bother being force-fed exposition about the Planet AVALANCHE is trying to save, but being forced to escort Nanaki down to the Canyon's gritty unders was just epically not awesome. It served no point other than to give Nanaki some form of backstory and drive which I suppose the same could be said of Barret at Gold Saucer but Barret had been a core member from the beginning of the game. Nanaki could just as easily been made into a wandering character like Shadow from FF6. Still, I think Barret's story along with Cid's were both integrated pretty seamlessly into the core plot. The Cloud-Tifa-Aerith story pretty much was the core plot. Nanaki is the only one with whom I feel they said, "we need an excuse to give Red XIII a backstory, let's have their Buggy break, force-feed them some exposition and then force them to go on a quest which has nothing to do with the rest of the story." I mean, at least Barret's story with Dyne still was connected to ShinRa. Nanaki's story didn't have that going for it. It was just utter... I don't know what to call it. It wasn't even an infodump... because there really was nothing else to learn after leaving the observatory. There was no point to going down there.

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So a place where they study the planets life, and is full of people who want to save the planet has nothing to do with the game? The game which is about stopping Sephiroth killing the planet with a giant mothersmurfing meteor? Yep, you're so right, nothing to do with the game. It would have been much better for them to simply put Nanaki in the party with no discernible reason or motive. Heck, why would you be curious about this lion wolf hybrid that can talk?

Lets also not forget that Bugenhagen is completely irrelevant to the plot either, it not like he was helpful as to what they had to do to stop meteor, or they had any idea what to do with the key to the ancients or anything like that.

Oh, wait...

On a side note, if you don't want to be "forced" to do something in a game, don't play the game.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Why?

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Personal preference.

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Psychotic prefers to get lost in the ladder maze?

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Originally Posted by Carl the Llama

So a place where they study the planets life, and is full of people who want to save the planet has nothing to do with the game? The game which is about stopping Sephiroth killing the planet with a giant mothersmurfing meteor? Yep, you're so right, nothing to do with the game. It would have been much better for them to simply put Nanaki in the party with no discernible reason or motive. Heck, why would you be curious about this lion wolf hybrid that can talk?

Lets also not forget that Bugenhagen is completely irrelevant to the plot either, it not like he was helpful as to what they had to do to stop meteor, or they had any idea what to do with the key to the ancients or anything like that.

Oh, wait...

On a side note, if you don't want to be "forced" to do something in a game, don't play the game.

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*snip* I already said I DON'T have a problem with Cosmo Canyon as a whole. I just don't like being forced into Nanaki's little sidestory as it has nothing to do with the rest of the game. At least Barret's story with Dyne goes to show how truly horrible ShinRa is (as if we didn't know) but then CC introduces us to the Gi? Why? Who the hell cares? It would have been a great optional quest if they had done it that way, but beyond the things you learn at the observatory, there was really no point to stay at Cosmo Canyon. Okay, I get it. Mako is Lifestream is vital to the Planet. Can I go now?

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Why?

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Personal preference.

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Psychotic prefers to get lost in the ladder maze?

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Oh. I'm sorry. Since there wasn't a quote my mind assumed you were addressing my original post. Old habit.

I had no idea the game forced you to go there because I never drove past the town, I always entered each city I saw as I went along.

I like the music, the atmosphere, the characters and storylines that occur within the town and the enjoyment I get out of them is greater than the annoyance caused by the ladder maze.

Cosmo Canyon is one of the best locations, and everything about it is a highlight in a game composed almost exclusively of highlights.

Dat music tho

I do have to disagree with Mercen. Cosmo Canyon is one of my favourite locations of the first Disc, which is pretty amazing as the first Disc in general was astounding. While they could have perhaps had a different reason than "Oh no, our buggy broke down, better enter this area", having it as a mandatory location suited me fine. Nanaki himself said he would leave the party after he got back home, so it'd be pretty silly not having him get home the entire game.

That you learn about the planet and its pain is vitally important. The entire first Disc is "We must catch Sephiroth!" and we only really get the overarching problem of the planet right towards the end of the first Disc and beyond. It's our first glimpse really, and that's quite important. That, and I quite like Bugenhagen.

Furthermore, Nanaki needs the injection of story. He isn't the most critical character in relation to the story, and so Cosmo Canyon saves him from being slightly redundant.

And the music... the theme is hauntingly beautiful.

I would have hated it if Nanaki's backstory was purely Shinra related. Everything is Shinra related. It feels trite. Nanaki a reason to fight them, which is good -- that's what brings the party together after all -- but to have Seto turned to stone defending from Shinra or something would've just been stupid. Like, "yes okay Square we get it Shinra is bad".

Going to Cosmo Canyon gives you the insight into Nanaki's character and it also makes dealing with stuff like the key to the ancients and whatever less of a deus ex machina. Instead of Nanaki going "oh hey I know just the dude to help us out", we already know Bugenhagen might be helpful.

Besides: Nanaki said he wasn't interested in sticking around. He was going as far as his home village and then leaving. You might not have it now, but the first time I played I was fearful that he would leave my party.

When you think about it, while Cait Sith sacrificed himself to make the Black Materia, Barret began Cloud's crusade against ShinRa, and Cid had his rocket, Red XIII didn't really offer anything to the story plot-wise. Okay, stopping in Cosmo Canyon is a learning experience and you meet Bugen... but Nanaki isn't essential to any of that especially when the Buggy breaks down and forces you to stop there.

I wish we had some idea what Red XIII's backstory was about. Who are the Gi, who are Seto's people, why were they fighting, why did their spirits linger for an eternity of torment in the cave, where did they live, what happened to the rest of Seto's kind, etcetera. We get so much backstory about so many places and conflicts in this world, and yet that entire aspect just kind of gets dismissed with a "yeah, it happened".

There, you see. We get this big infodump none-related to the main plot and then the story drops off the face of the Planet. I wouldn't hate being story-jacked like this if we had come back to re-visit Red XIII's story. At least give me some closure. Seto was crying wasn't he? Can he be saved like Palom and Porom? Like Blank? Are the Gi really defeated? What was their deal? Did any of it have some kind of connection to the Lifestream or the Ancients?

http://i.imgur.com/RkK7sZ7.png

Seemed relevant.

Call me old-fashioned... wait, I think you just did.

Part of the magic of narrative is leaving room for interpretation. The Gi were an opposing tribe. Nanaki's father defeated them all, but their spirits lingered on. Seto himself was trapped after being struck by a poisoned arrow. I don't need to know any more than that to realise it is an emotional moment. I can speculate on the nature of the Gi, but because it doesn't relate to the main plot, I don't feel like Sephiroth or Shinra are literally the only things that are bad in this world. I mean, look at your life. Does everything make sense? Is there only one bad guy?

Could you imagine how little we would have to talk about if everything was explained? It would be horrible to sit around having the same threads where one person says "this was a thing" and everyone responds with "yes it was". Blech. I like opinions, even "wrong" opinions.

Cosmo Canyon had my favourite music of the game. I, unfortunately, don't remember much about the game at all other than that but I, fortunately, just finished downloading it onto my PS3. :D

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Originally Posted by Jiro

The Gi were an opposing tribe.

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Where did they live (since there's no ruined town or anything to explore where they might be from)? What were they attacking Cosmo Canyon for? What happened to the rest of their tribe (or were they literally nothing but warriors, and they all kept fighting until they died)?

The Cosmo Canyon theme and the scene where "The Great Warrior" plays broke my little heart. Those howls :(

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Jiro

The Gi were an opposing tribe.

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Where did they live (since there's no ruined town or anything to explore where they might be from)? What were they attacking Cosmo Canyon for? What happened to the rest of their tribe (or were they literally nothing but warriors, and they all kept fighting until they died)?

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Underground, I presume. They were using that tunnel to attack Cosmo Canyon, so I guess they had some kind of underground village. They were attacking Cosmo Canyon because they coveted the land and because they are evil jerkfaces, which is why their malignant spirits clung to life even after they were killed. They were like evil spartans so yes they were literally nothing but warriors. Perhaps their ruined village has been worn away by twenty years of exposure to the elements.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Jiro

The Gi were an opposing tribe.

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Where did they live (since there's no ruined town or anything to explore where they might be from)? What were they attacking Cosmo Canyon for? What happened to the rest of their tribe (or were they literally nothing but warriors, and they all kept fighting until they died)?

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Given their Native American style I would have thought they were wondering nomads, and raided various villages for food and plunder, no need to settle for one particular place.

After all, when you live in tents, there is no need to have a settlement.