Google's Deal to Buy Twitch

You will be assimilated.

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The rumored deal that will see Google acquire game-streaming service Twitch has been confirmed, according to a GamesBeat report.

Variety reported back in May that YouTube--a subsidiary of Google--had reached a deal to acquire Twitch for $1 billion. (Microsoft was also rumored to have been interested.) The companies refused to comment on the matter at the time, and in lieu of any official word in the ensuing two months, there has been speculation about whether the deal had fallen apart.

GamesBeat's report states the acquisition will indeed go through. However, the exact price, as well as when an official announcement will be made, remain uncertain. When contacted by GameSpot for confirmation, both Twitch and Google declined to comment.

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Source

I don't use Twitch, but thought some of you would be interested in hearing about this. I'm not all that familiar with Google business practices; people are always blaming them for the current state of YouTube, so I can see people getting riled if Google owns Twitch. One billion dollars is a lot of money to turn down, though.

Discuss.

Heard Dr Unne discussing this on his Twitch stream. He made a good point that it's a huge loss of competition as Twitch is, to an extent, a YouTube competitor.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Heard Dr Unne discussing this on his Twitch stream. He made a good point that it's a huge loss of competition as Twitch is, to an extent, a YouTube competitor.

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Makes me wonder if that was part of the reason they made the deal.

While I personally don't religiously watch or stream on Twitch, I still think google shouldn't mess with it at all. But I can see that 1 bil dollars is seriously hard to reject.

Google's handling of copyright issues on Youtube doesn't make me feel good about this. Twitch is currently an anything-goes wonderland, and that can't last.

I live on Twitch, I watch it all day nearly every day while I work. I stream whenever I can. I've discovered a bunch of nice communities via Twitch. I don't want Twitch to be ruined. It would make me very sad.

"You must use your Google+ account to log in"

It was nice while it lasted.

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Originally Posted by Sephex

"You must use your Google+ account to log in"

It was nice while it lasted.

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:( Please no.

I will flip out of they do they same thing with twitch that they've done with youtube.

Exactly the google+ trout. I don't use google plus, all of my uploads, likes ect are on my youtbe account yet I can't do anything with it now. smurf you google, I hate you.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Google used to be the best PR company in the world and everyone loved them and pointed to them as the shining light or something. And then they bought out YouTube, and now Twitch. At least Facebook doesn't force me to attach my WhatsApp profile to my Facebook account.

This is like when EoFF prematurely freaked out over the Facebook-Oculus acquisition.

Isn't your Google+ account really just your Gmail account?

Google+ and draconian copyright enforcement? Someone make the new twitch soon please.

Bolivar, maybe I don't want to have my twitch, YouTube, gmail, and every other account all connected and rolled into one. And maybe I don't want to be strong armed into using their smurfing social networking service no one gives a trout about every time I use a website.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

This is like when EoFF prematurely freaked out over the Facebook-Oculus acquisition.

Isn't your Google+ account really just your Gmail account?

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I suppose it is but, when I go to Youtube I am forced to comment under Bob Howe not my youtube escobarbert account. this is very annoying. I don't use google for anything except email. And, I don't want/need my real name being used in youtube comments and videos.

Have you tried disconnecting your Google+ account and real name in the account settings? It's one of the first things you see there.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

This is like when EoFF prematurely freaked out over the Facebook-Oculus acquisition.

Isn't your Google+ account really just your Gmail account?

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The thing is, Oculus was just a potential technology that plenty of people had doubts about anyway.

Twitch is a product that is already massively successful

I'm hoping we'll just get a new Twitch. It's never been as huge of a service as YouTube, or had the massive driving name recognition. It's used almost entirely for video game streaming, from what I've seen. If gamers are forced to suffer the completely insane policies that Google enforces, I'm pretty sure Twitch will die and another streaming service will take off. Most game reviewers and such now run their own video websites because YouTube has created such a hostile environment. I'm pretty sure they'll start doing the same with streaming as well. Then some new group will start compiling the services, until we get a new Twitch, while the old one goes the way of MySpace.

Maybe it's unlikely, but we can hope.

If only it was as easy as "someone make a new Twitch". Twitch is HUGE and had a lot of problems growing to the size it is now. Scaling that big isn't something any old company can do. There's also the whole social aspect. Who's going to stream on a competitor site and have 5 viewers when they can use Twitch and have 5,000? Sometimes the MySpaces die and are replaced by Facebooks, but it doesn't happen often and not unless the new thing is considerably better than the old thing.

There already are alternatives to Twitch. Main one I know of is http://www.hitbox.tv/

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

not unless the new thing is considerably better than the old thing.

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That's the thing though. Twitch is now going to have Google's policies imposed on it. That means all of the Content ID and other copyright atrocities. Twitch is going to become basically unusable for its primary purpose. Twitch is not going to survive. The only question is how long it will be before something else takes its place.

In fact, I'd say people migrating to Twitch because they couldn't put their content on YouTube is part of why Twitch grew as much as it did.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Twitch is now going to have Google's policies imposed on it. That means all of the Content ID and other copyright atrocities. Twitch is going to become basically unusable for its primary purpose. Twitch is not going to survive.

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I really doubt they spent $1B to partake in the compelling joy of copyright enforcement. You guys are insane.

Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

I will reserve judgement until Google has run it into the ground. If they even do that.

Remember how Disney would ruin Marvel? What dicks.

It still doesn't bode well considering how wreckless they've handled YouTube since its acquisition. So there is a reference point. Its not just a random corporation buying something. Its a corporation we know, buying something similar to something they've previously bought and previously attempted to ruin

I can only hope that they are aware of how horribly they've treated YouTube and want to buy Twitch to make up for it and treat it differently

Viacom and similar corporations are breathing down YouTube's throat, and barely a day goes by when Google isn't sued over something on YouTube. But Twitch doesn't have nearly the same problem. Nintendo's about the only big game company that might have a problem with YouTube streamers as far as I know. I think the only content ID matches that hit YouTubers are actually from music companies and not the game companies. And even then, when notified and they actually reply, they typically don't have a problem with YouTube streamers. It's just an automated system, based on them not wanting people to simply upload a song as a stand-alone, but they don't typically want to step on the game companies toes

I really hope they don't just unleash content ID bots on Twitch and take up a whole different stance without Viacom and RIAA asshats breathing down their throats

Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to just run YouTube more efficiently?

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Originally Posted by Shauna

I will reserve judgement until Google has run it into the ground. If they even do that.

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Sure, I'm reserving judgment too. I'm not giving up on Twitch just yet.

I've heard some users mention that this deal could give famous YouTubers (PewDiePie, for example) a huge boost on Twitch by allowing their subs to carry over, burying many Twitch-centric users.

Should compatibility and integration of the two services be kept at a minimum?

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Twitch is now going to have Google's policies imposed on it. That means all of the Content ID and other copyright atrocities. Twitch is going to become basically unusable for its primary purpose. Twitch is not going to survive.

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I really doubt they spent $1B to partake in the compelling joy of copyright enforcement. You guys are insane.

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Duh? They spent a billion to acquire a new moneymaking platform. The joy of copyright enforcement is a side effect that is going to occur.

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Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

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When SEGA shut down YouTube accounts for merely TALKING ABOUT Shining Force III, I'm perfectly willing to call it an atrocity.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

It still doesn't bode well considering how wreckless they've handled YouTube since its acquisition. So there is a reference point. Its not just a random corporation buying something. Its a corporation we know, buying something similar to something they've previously bought and previously attempted to ruin

I can only hope that they are aware of how horribly they've treated YouTube and want to buy Twitch to make up for it and treat it differently

Viacom and similar corporations are breathing down YouTube's throat, and barely a day goes by when Google isn't sued over something on YouTube. But Twitch doesn't have nearly the same problem. Nintendo's about the only big game company that might have a problem with YouTube streamers as far as I know. I think the only content ID matches that hit YouTubers are actually from music companies and not the game companies. And even then, when notified and they actually reply, they typically don't have a problem with YouTube streamers. It's just an automated system, based on them not wanting people to simply upload a song as a stand-alone, but they don't typically want to step on the game companies toes

I really hope they don't just unleash content ID bots on Twitch and take up a whole different stance without Viacom and RIAA asshats breathing down their throats

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Um, I hate to break it to you, but video game companies have done a ton to harm YouTube content producers.

YouTube has a "three strikes, you're out" policy on copyright ID. Each video that an infraction is laid upon earns you a strike, and three will shut down your account, and the network you're associated with if you are part of that program, automatically. They also have a "guilty until proven innocent" policy, where a claim made will issue a strike before any checks are run to test the validity of the claim (though I believe they have closed the holes in the system that allowed anyone to claim an copyright strike, even if they weren't the copyright holder on the content in question).

Let's start with the aforementioned Shining Force fiasco. With the release of Shining Ark upcoming, SEGA decided to cull any and all videos that would appear with a search for "Shining Force III". Not only videos showing gameplay footage, or still images, but any videos even discussing the game, if it rated high enough on the search that it would appear before the new trailer for Shining Ark.

First Google Link, but you can find a ton of info on it if you search.


Ok, so SEGA sucks, but that was back in 2012. Who else? Well, there was the time last year when Nintendo issued copyright claims on everyone hosting any of their software. Nintendo avoided issuing full copyright strikes, and instead laid claim to any and all advertising revenue that content producers made on videos that held any Nintendo content.

Kotaku article.

But, hey, Nintendo has reversed the policy, and set up a subsystem designed to split the profits with content creators, so that reviewers and LPers can still keep using Nintendo stuff. So that's another win, right?


But what about earlier this year, when FUN issued copyright strikes on TotalBiscuit for his review and his research stream on Guise of the Wolf, after he reviewed a game (after they agreed to let him review it), but reviewed it very poorly? That, if he had a third video, they would have shut down not only all of Polaris, but the entire Maker Studios YouTube network, all because FUN got upset with a bad review.
The review.
The research vid for his review, where he shows the raw gameplay that led to his conclusions in the review.

Google Links for "Total Biscuit Guise of the Wolf". Because there are dozens, and I'm way too lazy to look for one to link.


These are the first three things that jump to mind, but they are by no means exceptions. Go ahead and ask any serious YouTube content creator. Ask your favorite reviewer or Let's Player. They've probably had plenty of run-ins with copyright strikes. They don't like to talk about it, which is why they leave it out of their videos unless it gets huge, but if you ask, most of them will tell you.

YouTube has an absolutely draconian copyright policy. They side completely on the side of the copyright holders in every situation. The complaint need not be valid, the entire strike system is automated. There are still accounts that were closed down by SEGA's action two years ago, that have never come back up. Given that some YouTube content producers actually make videos as their job, this mean that YouTube will, entirely on a whim from a corporation with no legal leg to stand on, deprive people of their livelihoods.

Oh, certainly, you can fight back. Especially if you're a big enough member or connected with a large enough network. TotalBiscuit got those strikes removed, after all. But the strikes still occur (again, they're completely automated), and if you don't have those connections, those lawyers willing to fight for you? You're boned.



I fail to see why these policies would not spread to Twitch, now that they share the same owner.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

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When SEGA shut down YouTube accounts for merely TALKING ABOUT Shining Force III, I'm perfectly willing to call it an atrocity.

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Wow, you really know me, don't you??? lol (damn you Skyblade)

The reason why Twitch is not going to shut down is because its streams are disproportionately dominated by a handful of PC multiplayer games. Blizzard and Valve aren't going to shut those streams down. Even if they did, the reason why Google is buying Twitch now is for how the next-gen console launches augmented Twitch's user base, a trend which will persist as the Xbox One and PS4 continue to shatter sales records. Both systems integrate Twitch streaming into their firmware, meaning that unless a publisher disables it, all games released on those platforms have already consented to their games being streamed.

Worst case scenario is we lose things like Twitch Plays Pokemon but I personally doubt it. For the overwhelming vast majority of its uses, it's only going to get bigger.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

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When SEGA shut down YouTube accounts for merely TALKING ABOUT Shining Force III, I'm perfectly willing to call it an atrocity.

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Wow, you really know me, don't you??? lol (damn you Skyblade)

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Yeah, I figured that one might catch your attention. ;)

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The reason why Twitch is not going to shut down is because its streams are disproportionately dominated by a handful of PC multiplayer games. Blizzard and Valve aren't going to shut those streams down. Even if they did, the reason why Google is buying Twitch now is for how the next-gen console launches augmented Twitch's user base, a trend which will persist as the Xbox One and PS4 continue to shatter sales records. Both systems integrate Twitch streaming into their firmware, meaning that unless a publisher disables it, all games released on those platforms have already consented to their games being streamed.

Worst case scenario is we lose things like Twitch Plays Pokemon but I personally doubt it. For the overwhelming vast majority of its uses, it's only going to get bigger.

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That's a fair point, and one I hadn't considered.

I do think that YouTube sets a precedent that people need to be wary of, though.

I stream Spelunky while playing my music playlist with a bunch of music I don't have copyrights on. Am I going to get shut down? A lot of big streamers do the same thing, and make a living from their streams. Is Google or a copyright holder going to want a piece of that revenue?

Game Company X could be like "Yeah, stream our games all you want! And we get all of your ad revenue while you do!" Which is the equivalent of big streamers never streaming those games ever again.

Wait, people can make money from their streams? Maybe this is something I should do.

Google creeps me out, though. :(

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Originally Posted by KentaRawr!

Wait, people can make money from their streams? Maybe this is something I should do.

Google creeps me out, though. :(

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http://www.twitch.tv/p/partners Your stream needs to be a certain size, in terms of number of sustained viewers. Then you have to apply and see if you get it. Unless you stream very regularly and get a lot of viewers, you probably won't be approved.

I forgot about SEGA's bull crap. But aside from that my point pretty much remains. What I meant was that when that content ID thing went into ridiculous mode a couple months ago, I wasn't really in the dark about what was going on. I watched a lot of videos discussing and revealing what was said behind closed doors and a lot of LP'ers and whatnot went live with what kind of relationships they've had with which companies in the past and what kinds of things got flagged, why they got flagged, and how it was resolved. And from my perspective it seemed like 90% of the big game companies (Ubisoft, Konami, Capcom, etc.) had absolutely no problem with people using their content. A couple companies had went so far as to make public statements on their webpages for easy access, so people could quickly and easily reply to YouTube and say hey look, they're okay with this, instead of having to find time to argue with YouTube on behalf of dozens (if not hundreds) of YouTubers. And it turned out that the vast majority of the hits were not so much due to game footage being triggered (though I know there were a couple instances of people posting trailers as part of an over-all review or story and got flagged, which was garbage) was music that was not technically the property of the game publisher but was actually merely licensed from a studio, and that studio was the owner who had to be disputed with

Maybe we've just heard different sides of the story. Mine's pretty anecdotal, but from the mouth of a lot of horses. I don't feel that a lot of the problem was the game companies, though they certainly weren't innocent and could have easily just requested all their content be voided from the content ID bots

Though I did watch a lot of Total Biscuits videos during that fiasco, and using him as an example doesn't really help anything. He's kind of a special case. There's tons of companies that just want to shut him up, so he gets flagged for things pretty much on a weekly basis over ridiculous stuff in lame attempts to remove his voice from the internet. Though I imagine it's not quite so bad these days, especially after the Day One: Garys Incident ... incident

I swear i knew about the talks of this from over a year ago.. but anyways time for me to input my input

1. It hasnt happened yet.. and omg HEATH LEDGER IS GONNA PLAY THE JOKER WTFBBQLOL

2. Putting copyright on anything on twitch will basically mean google threw away $1b, lets just be honest here

3. If google buys out twitch.. the first thing i see them doing is upgrading the servers to actually be able to handle the streams, and to create better bots for those overfilled chatrooms with everyone raising their dongers

4. As a streamer i think it could be something good but who know.. for those of us that are trying to get partnered its nearly impossible due to the fact that you just sit on the bottom of the list.. as the saying goes, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"

all in all we will have to wait and see where this goes... will google buy out twitch?.. Will Google smurf it up if they do?... Will Tommy finally notice Kimberly?... I guess we will have to wait til next weeks episode to find out

It starts.

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This includes in-game and ambient music.

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Great. Good job all round.

One hit knock out. GJ Google.

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Originally Posted by Twitch

Starting today, Twitch will be implementing technology intended to help broadcasters avoid the storage of videos containing unauthorized third-party audio.

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Starting today, Twitch will be implementing technology intended to help broadcasters avoid the storage of videos containing unauthorized third-party audio.

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PR-speak makes me want to puke.

And yeah, it was fun while it lasted.

"Flak" is an understatement of what they'll be getting on their AMA Friday.

YouTube 2.0

That didn't take long.

Comically, Twitch's own channel got flagged: http://www.twitch.tv/twitch/b/548824097

Well, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I thought they might not be so completely short-sighted as to pretty much throw $1bn into a burning pit.

I was wrong.

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If you believe that your video has been flagged improperly and that you have cleared the rights to all of the sound recordings in your uploaded video, then we will consider unmuting your video if you send us a counter-notification that is compliant with the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”).

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It is nice that they will maybe if they feel like it fix your 30 minutes of audio mute if you can prove it to their standards.

Dozens of games have been muted because of in-game music. What's next? "We noticed you were playing a video game and broadcasting it without the permission of the developer. Please provide signed proof that you have permission to stream said video game."

You can't help but wonder if this purchase was funded by music companies.

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Originally Posted by Shauna

Well, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I thought they might not be so completely short-sighted as to pretty much throw $1bn into a burning pit.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

You can't help but wonder if this purchase was funded by music companies.

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$1 billion is nothing. It's only barely 1 billion more than literally nothing. In the grand scheme of things, it's a move without consequence for the music industry. They only care about the money that can be made from music licenses.

The people this really hurts the most is the streamer who commentates on top of the music and any of his fans who can't watch live because they, like, you know, have lives.

There's also issues in that the whole thing is entirely automated. Makes it quite weird that you can have League of Legends videos straight from Riot being muted for its own in-game background music. No, license-free music is not going to solve the issue, either.

Unfortunately, people sort of knew that this sort of thing was inevitable. A couple thousand people streaming full songs for fun and profit? That was never going to fly. It will eventually happen to Azubu, Hitbox, or any alternative streaming venture as long as streamers continue to play music or the people who are currently leading the industry die and the people who are making music now get promoted.

You can make eyeglasses to correct short sight but not short vision.

EDIT: Turns out the music blocking is all handled client-side. Make of that whatever you want. Perhaps hilarity?

The Reddit Ask Me Anything with the Twitch CEO has started

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...ask_me_almost/

My Favourite posts so far are the following

1. An image link to the twitch weekly podcast being flagged by the same system they implement as "Third Party Content".
2. The knowledge that the Dota 2 international VODs were muted despite the fact that Value running the content, and makes the entire soundtrack for the event allow their music to be used.
3. The CEO explaining that point 2 picked up the noise from the crowd, which resulted in the copyright flagging. Thus proving that it does not work as intended.

This is really fiasco. But who cares right? Twitch owner have their one bil, google destroyed another popular site. Everyone's happy.

A quick run of http://mutedvods.com/ told me that our very own Dr Unne got at least one video muted: http://www.twitch.tv/cdaddr/b/550954136

The good news is, the VOD will be auto-deleted in 3 weeks anyways. Twitch thought of everything! In the meantime we can play Let's Guess Which Song Was Flagged, because there's no way to know.

3 weeks? YouTube takes up to a month, sometimes longer if I remember Angry Joe's rant about it correctly. So even if they're wrong, they're going to delete good videos before they get a chance to fix them. Awesome. Gotta love websites that thrive on their users, yet don't give two trouts about those users

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Originally Posted by Dat Matt

2. The knowledge that the Dota 2 international VODs were muted despite the fact that Value running the content, and makes the entire soundtrack for the event allow their music to be used.

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Makes me wonder how long we have to wait before Valve says smurf it and develops their own streaming service.

...Hadn't even thought of that. It'd probably be hugely beneficial to them. Here's hoping they're interested, honestly. Seems like a perfect fit right now

It's definitely a direction they could go in, but with all the current complaints of steam [Terrible broken games getting greenlit, poor search functionality etc], I don't think it's something they should focus on just now.

Considering there's nothing stopping them from doing both (and a lot of the complaints about steam these days are stupid anyway), I see no reason they couldn't go that route. It'd be a good feature to integrate with steam letting you stream any steamworks enabled game easily, and have another function to let you stream any that aren't.

So the deal has happened and it turns out the buyer is...

...Amazon.

Not really any better, I guess.

The Facebook-Oculus comparisons again rear their head as this is just not a buyer I would've expected. I'm nevertheless plugged into the Amazon ecosystem, so it works for me.

I wonder if this hints at Kindle compatibility with the Second Screen features the XBone/PS4 support? At least for Twitch streaming I'd imagine...

Amazon has been big into distributed web hosting for years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Web_Services One good potential outcome is they use some of their resources to make Twitch run more smoothly. Twitch has had problems scaling. Amazon has also dabbled in streaming video already.

Beyond that who knows. Just hoping, again, that they don't ruin Twitch for everyone.

Wait what? Damn internet. All the freaking out made me think Google already bought Twitch. Hence them implementing a damn ID system similar to YouTube's (though I'm aware it wasn't exactly the same, but it caused the same problems..)

Never used Twitch, but use Amazon a lot. I also use Google a lot, but I don't think Google buying Twitch would have been a good situation for consumers. At least this allows some form of competition between two of the most dominant video/streaming services.

Wait, so this means all the crap Twitch pulled in the past month was completely their own decision? It wasn't Google? What. So they were dicks before they got bought out? I don't even...

That was the first indication the talks fell through. They wouldn't have implemented their own system if they were going to be integrated with Google, who has their own proprietary Content ID system

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

That was the first indication the talks fell through. They wouldn't have implemented their own system if they were going to be integrated with Google, who has their own proprietary Content ID system

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They were hoping to impress Google by showing that they could implement a system just as bad as Google's.

I'm always torn on how I feel about Amazon because on the one hand they are just awful to their employees but on the other hand I've always had good experiences with them as a consumer (and as a freelancer who sells through them).

I'm so confused. Basically every single news source was talking like Google already bought them. Well, at least now I know not to trust game news sites again.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Wait, so this means all the crap Twitch pulled in the past month was completely their own decision? It wasn't Google? What. So they were dicks before they got bought out? I don't even...

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Also this.

Attachment 59382

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Originally Posted by Pike

I'm always torn on how I feel about Amazon because on the one hand they are just awful to their employees but on the other hand I've always had good experiences with them as a consumer (and as a freelancer who sells through them).

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I watched a documentary showing how poorly one worker was treated by amazon with late shifts, strict working conditions and such. Then I noticed he got 150% of my wage for 32 hours a week of work. He got mighty compensated for his time, even though it was 12-8 four days a week or something like that.

I don't have an issue with amazon as a consumer. They do what I want the to do which is deliver me millions of games and DVDs. What it means for twitch I'm not sure, but I'm interested to see what it is they do.