Aerith: Flirty Extrovert or Demure Flower ?

It seems the legacy of Aerith's character seems to contradict the personality she displays in-game. To me, I find this frustrating to nobend considering I find her actual in-game personality infinitely more interesting.

When we're first introduced to Aerith we're portrayed a feminine, outgoing, adventurous character who has a tendency to flirt, a love of fashion, a quick wit, and even a mischevous side to her. She threatens Don Cornei's genitalia, taunts playfully at Cloud during the cross-dressing scene, and seems to outsmart Cloud and others continously throught much of the game. She has spunk, she has character, she's shown to possess a guile of her own that demonstrates an independent spirit of an early-20's urban female. She knows Cloud's a fake somehow, and for all her flirtatious nature towards him, seems to almost pity him rather than seem attracted to him.

She is highly, feminine, yes. She also is a below-average in combat, far less experienced than any other character. She has a maternal nature to her and has a spiritual connection to The Planet. However, none of these traits really reflect on her personality very much, yet they seem to define her in Compilation entries and warps her personality.

Why is this? Her extroverted and playful attitude is far more appealing, and dare I say, progressive, for a sacrifical spiritual figure than the anime-esque demure "broken bird" archetype usually reserved for such a character. Why change it? She has a more stereotypical air to her, but feels less like a character and strips her of her humanity and nuance. It sheds her role in the plot and her doomed fate of its gravitas and tragedy. How can one mourn for the loss of a person who didn't demonstrate much autonomy to begin with? What is truly tragic about her loss of life was also the loss of her zest for it.

Aerith, for all her exceptional qualities, was very much normal in a lot of ways which made her and her fate infinitely more interesting. She had a love for life, a compassion, a gentleness, and yes, a spiritual nature. Her love of cute dresses, playful demeanor, and plucky independence humanizes those traits, not diminishes them. I hope Square and its fanbase will recognize this Flanderization and repair it. It really does cause the story and message to lose its heart.

Off-topic: Emma Stone fits my ideal casting profile for my interpretation of Aerith's character. Joseph Gordon-Levitt would be my Cloud, for I also find him highly misunderstood for the worse.

Agree? Disagree? Discuss.

Definitely.

I think the reason is because she saves the world at the end of the game, and so she's given the Messiah treatment.

The answer is simply: Aerith is made of multiple levels of character just like we all - hopefully.

The easiest way to imagine that is calling the flirtieness her Human Side and the pure, supernatural side her Cetre Side. Not that no human is caring but she is one person anyway so it is enough to show it this way.

Aerith is the complete opposite of Sephiroth. While Sephiroth always thought of himself as a living wonder and was proud of his powers and his confidence grew with having those powers, Aerith never really wanted to be a Cetra. Not that she did not accept it, but when the ShinRa wanted to get her because he was one she' rather lie to not go with them and to Zack she says she thinks being normal is the best. Aerith lived with her powers from her very beginning and just let them be a part of her nature as well as affected that the person she was and how she developed. She was always a pure person despite that "flirty" attitude simply because she was a woman who only tried to live a normal life and not be completely driven by her Ancient nature. You just knew that even when she was joking around, either at the same time or the next moment she would think/say something serious that actually showed she is not just the carefree person she seemed to be through various situations. She was actually a very serious character, not really understanding her heritage but still able to fulfill her role as a Cetra. Aerith tried to do her best to live with both of her sides, some might call that a facade and I understand how that thought comes up but she simply wanted to be as much of a normal woman without actually ignoring what else she was and vice-versa. Sephiroth was simply too busy with his way of thinking that as long as he had his power as a human he did not care, he was just a superhuman in his mind. But when he finally found out (after the flashback, not the Cetra lie though even during that time he already felt superior both power and race-wise) what he actually was he totally threw away all of his humanity to become the kind of person he chose to be. Funny as it is he, while no longer relying on what was human inside of him, was not able to actually lock away everything. He became almost completely emotionsless but retained his pride that made him arrogant to only hold a grudge against Cloud and making himself vulnerable. The weak humans he hated so much were his own weakness, especially what was left of that in Sephiroth himself.
Both characters cope with what they are totally different and yet in certain terms very similiar. The one wants a normal life while not ignoring her heritage of the Cetra but not make a big deal out of it. The other one does not want a normal life, gave up humanity as much as possible for him and does make a big deal out of what he is. What I can tell about that is bottomless but to sum it up: Aerith is not one-dimensional but a person that evolves such as we all. The Caterpillar changes to a cocoon to a butterfly. One entity and so many forms of what we become. And even in one and the same state we already have so many levels of what we are. Aerith was very much reduced in the other installments to mainly her Cetra Side, that is true. But in depends on you role in the story, how much screentime you have for that and how fitting it is to bring in your other characteristics.

I find that in all the post original-game appearances of the FF7 cast the characters are less the people they were in game and more one-dimensional avatars of their FF7 selves meant to showcase whatever aspect the writer thinks that they should be all about.

So your assessment of Aerith is spot on.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

I find that in all the post original-game appearances of the FF7 cast the characters are less the people they were in game and more one-dimensional avatars of their FF7 selves meant to showcase whatever aspect the writer thinks that they should be all about.

So your assessment of Aerith is spot on.

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It is more a situation of what your character needs to show about itself. In Advent Children Aerith's flirtieness would hardly be appropriate the way the story was written. To make that appropriate you would have to write the story different.

Yes, but when all the stories are written in a way that only showcase a certain aspect you have to wonder if it is a coincidence or that the character has begun to flatten in the minds of the writing staff.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Yes, but when all the stories are written in a way that only showcase a certain aspect you have to wonder if it is a coincidence or that the character has begun to flatten in the minds of the writing staff.

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I am sure that is just typical "I want a short story that focusses on aspect x so I cannot need characteristic as it is distracting or would clash in terms of storytelling". Fiction constantly has point that need to be ignored for the sake of the wished storytelling. It happens all the time. I mean, Crisis Core was not just about Aerith's innocence but also showed her curious and serious side.

Things like this always make me think about the limits of story telling.

What I mean is, Aerith's character to me is how she was introduced and grew in FFVII, and I was not all that impressed with her portrayal in Crisis Core. She didn't feel like Aerith to me.
Now, the thing is, if that was a real person it would of course be the same person. Perhaps she has grown in character, changed due to a dramatic life event, or just decided to act differently. I know i'm a different person now than I was in my teens.

But because its a fictional character and CC was written a long time after the original, I could also argue SE messed her personality up. It seemed like they were 'trying' to make her similar to how she was in the original, but something just feels 'off' to me.

Like if Aerith was a raging lunatic in CC, does that mean we have to accept that just because the game is canon? Or should we call BS on such things?

Also, I agree that at times some character traits don't fit the scene. For example, in AC it wouldn't make sense for Aerith to start flirting with Cloud, but she didn't need to. She encouraged him to keep going. However, at the same time, the small snippets of her that we do see don't give me the impression that she couldn't if she wanted to. It fits with how I came to know her in FFVII.

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Originally Posted by Uchu

Perhaps she has grown in character, changed due to a dramatic life event, or just decided to act differently. I know i'm a different person now than I was in my teens.

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Yes, metaphorically we are all different people in our lives and yet actually we are always us. Fitting as you said "... than I was in my teens", as both the past and present is just you with changes of character and of course the 15 year old Aerith is different from what she is with 22. Just imagine how embarassed I am of myself looking back at how I was with 5 or 10 sometimes et cetera.

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Originally Posted by Uchu

Like if Aerith was a raging lunatic in CC, does that mean we have to accept that just because the game is canon? Or should we call BS on such things?

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Yes, we have to accept it (or at least should) because she is not our property. She is Square Enix' property. If we make our own story that is our property. Canonicity is good because everyone being able to determine the truth would result in a paradox made of fan 1 deciding this is objectively right and fan 2 deciding that is objectively right which is why I cannot happen in the first place. We can still decide not to like canonical things. Liking/Disliking things and the acceptance of canonicity are two different things though many people mess up by mixing those two, especially when their imagination of what the fictional world seemed to be for them shattered. There are only a few exceptions when a canonical statement really cannot count and then it is pretty much still canonical but an inconsistency that is only possible to exist and does not really cause any harm - though being either a missing explanation or a contradiction - because it is a fictional world. Retconnings are completely legit, of course - but I mean out-universe retconning and not with in-universe time-stuff that does not work in the first place. That is also just nonsense (still it would be canonical but another inconsistency and so I would always just rewrite out-universe as author and never make it part of the universe by saying "this happened by it has been erased by whatever that is not possible".

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Originally Posted by Uchu

Also, I agree that at times some character traits don't fit the scene. For example, in AC it wouldn't make sense for Aerith to start flirting with Cloud, but she didn't need to. She encouraged him to keep going. However, at the same time, the small snippets of her that we do see don't give me the impression that she couldn't if she wanted to. It fits with how I came to know her in FFVII.

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Whih is the very reason why I don't have a problem with Advent Children. People especially critisize Cloud for being how he is in the movie but that is one of his natural sides. Cloud is a guy that only is arrogant when he feels he is in the right position to be so and is self-critical when he absolutely thinks that this is not his territory. Even while confabulating those characteristics retained on his surface. And losing a person as important as Aerith right in front of his eyes, almost being the tool of the act himself, is no wonder to bring him back to his self-critical mood and which makes him go back to being alone again, especially when he does not want to trouble people. As well as is it very odd of fans to critisize a new characteristic in a story of known characters because they are supposed to be people and can grow which means they can also learn and make new experience, react in a way they wouldn't have done before and make it a new part of their character. Yuna also finally had a chance to live her life. Final Fantasy X-2 with absolutely the same characteristics of Yuna would have been odd. Surely she could have been more reserved at first and then start being more enthusiastic but hey - she had the chance to live a life she didn't actually dream of for 10 years. That is a good reason to change and try out something new. Same thing goes for characteristics that apparently never were a part of a character before but depending on the character very well could be foundl, And even if not - we learn every second.

I think the fault lies in a combination of what Jinx said and the way the story turns her into the "broken bird" cliche after a certain point. The plot forces her into that starting right around Cosmo Canyon. Our time with Aerith the fun-loving flirt is a pretty small portion of the game, and our final image of her, is in death. Serene. Broken. Sacrificial. That's the strongest image from the game. It's probably the strongest image in the entire series. Dead people aren't flirtatious and life-affirming.

It would've been fun to have her around longer.

I think you're wrong about Aerith only pitying Cloud and not being attracted to him. Perhaps she knows something's fishy, but her attraction to Cloud involves her wanting to help him, to give to him, because she's such a giving person. The typical average attraction is to desire another person, to want to possess them, own them, have them as your own. Aerith's attraction to Cloud is more pure than that, or perhaps not more pure, but less selfish. She's happy when people around her are happy. She'd like to make Cloud happy, especially. Just, imo.

I think if someone is telling a story and they have to alter someone's character, then they're not very good at telling that story. Arguments for/against cannon aside, you can't invite someone to your party and then tell them not to be themselves. Just don't invite them. If they can't write an established character as that established character, then they should not use that established character. Or get help doing it so it can be done right without stripping people down

On topic though, I think the opening post nailed it. I loved Aeris in the game, but haven't really been that interested in her presentations since

I think she was kinda Cloud's Manic Pixie Dream Girl

Attempting to help him wake up and enjoy life and not stress out so much. And I loved watching their chemistry because of it

Edit: Sorry for double post. Internet/Chrome was being super weird that night

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

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Interesting post, Sephiroth. Especially about accepting canon as true. I guess we just have to hope that the authors have respect for the characters they create.

There is no MGS4 or Revengeance in my Metal Gear Canon.

Without trying to derail the thread entirely.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

There is no MGS4 or Revengeance in my Metal Gear Canon.

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Good examples of why i still find it difficult to accept some things as canon. I thought MGS4 was okay (as far as i can remember), but Revengeance... no, no, no. What were they thinking!?!

Pretty much what I was going for. If they can't make PROPER canon, it should not be required to accept it as canon. I suppose there's a concept of fancanon. When people go all George Lucas with their creations, bastardizing things against the fans' wills. Hate the crap. Screw it