I thought it was a very sweet and believable story but I know a lot of people disagree with me on that one
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I thought it was a very sweet and believable story but I know a lot of people disagree with me on that one
It always seemed kind of abrupt to me. He's really irritated by this manic pixie girl until he's just not anymore, like puberty slammed into him all at once or something. I thought Zell's love for hot dogs was the real deal. It was very touching.
On the one hand, my playthrough of the game showed me Squall can be a pretty nice guy. On the other hand, it was definitely too sudden come the start of Disk 3.
Overall I have no strong opinion apart from the fact I really like the Ragnarok Scene.
Is a good story, one of my favorites
But the whole "Squall is suddenly in love w Rinoa cuz she's dead" thing is waaaaaay forced. :D Hehe.
I liked it. Didn't feel forced at all.
I'm actually replaying VIII again for the first time in a long time. I'm just at Timber.
The thing that bugged me the most of the it all was the orphanage stuff. Otherwise I liked the story.
Didn't really have much of an opinion on it. It wasn't the worst I've seen in a game but it certainly wasn't the best either. Then again I don't feel Final Fantasy has ever handled love stories really well only VI and VII came close and both of them have side elements that make them more interesting than they should be.
I still interpret the game's theme of Love to more ambiguous and deal with different types of love besides romantic.
I loved it, I'll never get why people found it sudden because it looked like it developed over time, and even in the scenes where Squall could be viewed as being somewhat irritated by her (which was mostly at Timber and he didn't even seem that irritated, it looked pretty like much a quick pre-love based fighting). Even as early as Deling when he saves Rinoa from the Ignuions there is definitely somethign there, like he wants to be comforting, but having been, well... Squall for so long it's difficult - he doesn't know how to deal with his feelings yet. He's holding back.
In disk 2 they are brought closer, and you really need to read Squall's thoughts as well for this (am I the only one who does?) you can see from them that he is falling for Rinoa, but he can't do anything about it because he knows he's not supposed to be loved in anyway - it just ends, so there's no point, so he forces himself not to be in love, but he is. The reason he becomes more open when Rinoa falls into a coma, is because it sinks in that losing her will hurt either way, because he does care about her, and it's stupid of him to pretend he doesn't, it's not that he suddenly cared, he did for a long time.
I think FFVIII is a game for people who have attention to detail, it's like how so many people say that there were no hints towards the orphanage connection, but there were hints throughout, and they purposely made them only obvious after you played the game - it was a Sixth Sense kind of foreshadowing.
^Disagreed.
Nothing Squall ever said or thought even slightly pointed to him being head over heels in love with Rinoa. It literally goes like this.
Beginning of disc 1: This girl is hot, let's dance.
Most of disc 1: This girl is nothing but an annoying burden.
Disc 2: She's annoying, but ok I guess.
The VERY end of disc 2: Why should I waste my time saving her? I have other priorities. She's no more important than any of the others. You do it Zell.
The VERY beginning of disc 3: I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT HER!!!!!!!!!! I'D DIE FOR HER IN AN INSTANT!!!!!!!!!!!
Me: No... just no.
The Orphanage Twist wasn't foreshadowed either. Hell, the GFs causing memory loss was just a convenient Deus Ex Machina to cover up the fact that it's never foreshadowed. Notice how the memory loss thing is never brought up before or after this "twist" is revealed. Not to mention, that they don't even really cause memory loss. It's like their memories(of that single thing) were placed into a folder, and all immediately come back once Irvine brings this up.
It was just poorly written any way you look at it.
My first playthrough I didn't think anything of it, but on my recent playthrough I thought it was stupid and forced, not as much as some other RPG's though.
However, I now appreciate much more about Squall's character and found him quite funny in some situations, but the love stuff to me is just ridiculous and makes zero sense, typical anime trope.
Best love in FF involves Locke and Celes. It was never explicitly said, but it was there or at least open to the possibility and interpretation. FFVIII was suddenly BAM in your face.
EDIT: Bright Shield, just to play devil's advocate here, the memory loss thing was mentioned in a few locations during the beginning of the game, including the terminal you use in the class room. I think it's a silly plot convenience, but just wanted to say that it is mentioned.
^Yeah, but they all forget the EXACT same thing, and nothing else. Nor do they lose any other memories as the game goes on. The fact that all of their memories instantly return as soon as Irvine brings the past up, is further proof that this was a poorly written deus ex machina.
I'll do a better response when I have more time, and a more clear head, but think of this as a short preview.
There were things that pointed to Squall falling in love with Rinoa, and I will gather up scenes that proved this. You have to look at dialogue, thoughts, and expressions. It is there, and I will find the scenes to prove them to you.
The Orphanage thing was foreshadowed throughout, but they disguised it. It was like the twist in The Sixth Sense, or Final Destination 5 where there are hints to the twist throughout, but you only notice they are hints until after you know the twist, which is better than just simply having everyone say "Hey, do I know you?" because it takes away the impact.
As well as the mention of GFs affecting memory on that internet thing, there are more direct storyline examples;
Irvine clearly expects a reunion when he his first introduced to your party, but assumes they are not the same people when they don't recognize him.
Squall reacts to Edea's name as though he has heard it before.
Irvine can't shoot Edea because he knows who she really is, but forces himself to (the whole "I'll go down in history" is most likely an excuse).
The team all seem to just know how each other will react, even in the scenes where it is obvious they have only just met.
Ellone obviously knows who Squall and Quistis are.
There is a hint of regret when Edea injures Squall at the end of disc one.
I am sure there are others, but I am sure I will think of more in the "superior" version of this post.
Also, they didn't all forget the same thing; if you watch the orphanage scene, you will see that each of them forgot and remembered different things. Zell remembered the fireworks before anyone else, Squall didn't remember Irvine at all. Selphie has a vague memory of a GF back then. Only Zell forgot he was in an orphanage... they all had different memories lost.
I think the only thing wrong with it is that there had to be a reason for it, when they could have easily has just said "It was years ago, so we forgot". It was understandable to give Cloud a reason to forget in FFVII because it was more recent, and more of an impact on his life, as it was "My idol destroyed my hometown and killed my friends and family" rather than just "this is who I hung out with, when I was about eight", and even then they didn't have to use storyline stuff to erase his memory - they could have easily said that it was so traumatic he forgot everything.
Sorry, I know this isn't the best response, but it was foreshadowed as was Squall's love for Rinoa.
i always thought that squall liked rinoa from the beginning, but was more annoyed at himself for liking her and his inner thoughts reflected that in a reverse way, lol
it was a nice love story with lots of bickering, denial, acceptance etc etc all those ingredients that make it interesting; certainly up there in the top FFs romances.
Hmm... I'll concede that some good points were made here.
While it's true that they didn't forget the exact same things, it's pretty convenient that they all remembered nothing of the orphanage, until Irvine brings it up. Not to mention, that the whole "memory loss" thing is still pretty poorly done.Quote:
Also, they didn't all forget the same thing; if you watch the orphanage scene, you will see that each of them forgot and remembered different things. Zell remembered the fireworks before anyone else, Squall didn't remember Irvine at all. Selphie has a vague memory of a GF back then. Only Zell forgot he was in an orphanage... they all had different memories lost.
Why do they all instantly remember once one person brings an event up? If the GFs truly erased memories, then they should be permanently gone.
And I can possibly buy him "liking" her.Quote:
i always thought that squall liked rinoa from the beginning, but was more annoyed at himself for liking her and his inner thoughts reflected that in a reverse way, lol
I cannot buy him being willing to jump into space for her with virtually no chance of survival(the Ragnarok being there was more poor writing).
Again, even if all the pieces were in place. It was still insanely rushed, and jarring to many players because of this.
Which isn't saying much, lol. Still, I'd say that IX easily trumps it in this regard. Better writing and all.Quote:
certainly up there in the top FFs romances.
Do you mean that it "happened to be where they were"? I can sought of agree with you, though it was explained why it was in space, but I get what you mean.Quote:
(the Ragnarok being there was more poor writing).
Everyone except Zell remembered that they were in an orphanage, they just didn't remember who the other kids were (Irvine did), at the very least Selphie and Quistis remembered the orphanage, and you would assume Squall did as well, seeing as his main memory is that he was "alone". He remembers not having parents anyway.Quote:
While it's true that they didn't forget the exact same things, it's pretty convenient that they all remembered nothing of the orphanage, until Irvine brings it up.
Because that is how memory works, the slightest thing can bring a long forgotten memory to the surface without warning. That's how it works.Quote:
Why do they all instantly remember once one person brings an event up?
Because memory is never really "gone". I realize that the fact that they use a fictional plot-device to erase memory in this (same with FFVII), but I would assume that real-life logic still applies, and that forgotton memories are never gone, they are just stored away. What we remember is what is on the surface, and once something else is brought to the surface, we remember that, and sometimes even that isn't perfect. It all depends on the memory.Quote:
If the GFs truly erased memories, then they should be permanently gone.
well, he went a bit overboard for his first crush lol, we've all been there right- teenage hormones and stuff (well first crush, more like second if you think about the siscon but yeah)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Shield
as for ragnarok being there, deus ex machina, typical.
ffix garnet/zidane romance btw is pretty awesome, too, subtle but very nice development.
DISK 1:
I think Squall had always liked Rinoa or was at least crushing on her from the moment they first danced but his feelings for her was pushed back in his list of priorities (also the whole 'not wanting to get close to anyone from fear of getting hurt' dilemma). The fact that they argued a lot and Rinoa always trying to get him to open up probably brought him closer to her without realizing it. Their love story is very subtle until disk 3 which is why I assume many people think it's forced.
DISK 2:
In disk 2 when Squall's showing Rinoa around garden, arguably the scene where Dr.Kadowaki asks Squall if Rinoa is his girlfriend and you can choose 'yes' and then Rinoa wonders if he's serious, you can select yes and Squall chimes in with 'I'm seriously joking' *ba dum tss* while lame it can arguably be Squall's way of flirting with her. There's a whole bunch of other subtle nuances in disk 2 during the concert in FH when Squall and Rinoa are alone and again in FH when Rinoa asks Squall whether he would've been worried if she was on the missile base mission and he blushes conceding that he would.
DISK 3:
Everyone knows that saying 'you don't know what you have until it's gone', I think that can be applied when Squall starts panicking when Rinoa goes into a coma. Squall has been so used to Rinoa always being there, nagging him and whatnot when she isn't he can't deal with. Just like he couldn't deal with the change of Ellone leaving, he's going through the same thing with Rinoa not being there, so it resurfaces all his prior fears of abandonment and loneliness all over again. Remember we see a lot of scenes of Squall lying in his bed thinking, no doubt he finally comes to the conclusion that the reason he feels this way about Rinoa not being there is because he is in love with her! That's why he acts out taking Rinoa with him to Esthar...
and so on and so forth...
As a youngling, I thought it was wonderful. At a time in my life when I was just discovering the opposite sex, it was the pinnacle of fairy-tale romantic love at the time. Today, I still find the story very sweet. I admit I am also a Rinoa fan, I loved her design and personality. I can look on it today as flawed, in terms of execution, but still a lovely tale despite some of its pacing issues. Rubinstein didn't always get the notes spot on, but the emotional content still remains for me personally. Is there a game to date that has focused so heavily on developing a relationship to the extent that Final Fantasy VIII did? I'm genuinely asking, because I'd like to play it, if there is. I'm a sucker for a good love story despite my Y chromosome. =P
I liked it.
I always got this feeling that Squall was super independent and just never wanted to rely on anyone at all. I don't think he realised how much he loved Rinoa until he was faced with the prospect that he might lose her. That's why when he's hauling her ass over the train tracks that's what he's talking about.
That certainly might make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockharted
My personal feelings about the romance in general, whether the game worked it up subtly from the beginning or forcibly threw it at us in a rush, is that it is silly and would never work out. Perhaps I'm a jaded old man though. I wasn't surprised when it happened in game. I knew it was happening (how could you not, based simply on rules of tropism [deep intellectual pun, I hope someone gets it]), but I just didn't buy into it. I can see them as friends, but not lovers, not in the long haul.
Final Fantasy VIII is the Peeps of the FF series...it's a marshmallow covered in sugar, in the shape of a yellow bunny or duck or what have you with little eyes.
Attachment 60881
Pictured: FF8
But that's what's so great about it...it's sweet. They'd done a couple really dark games up to that point, and they wanted to do something nice.
i think zell and library pigtail girl were super romantical
I don't get why people find it hard to understand why Squall took it hard when Rinoa was taken away in Disc 3. It was hinted at many times before that point in the story that there was a romance there. You don't know know what you've got until it's gone. MJN made valid points above to add.
It definitely felt forced like the writers had to slam it down our throats very quickly before we knew what was happening. That said, I am not against the love aspect of the story, I just felt like it could have used a lot more development.
I actually liked it, but I really think the ragnaros part could have been different to make it much better
I liked the romantic aspect of the game overall- but I didn't like Squall and Rinoa as a couple. They just didn't strike me as the kind of couple that would stay together very long. They seemed more like the kind that get tossed together by uncontrollable elements, think they're madly in love- then realise, whoops! You get on my nerves, why are we together? Individually, I love both the characters- I thought they were adorable and very funny when they interacted with eachother, but I don't think they would last as boyfriend and girlfriend.