The Notion That Nintendo is Kiddy

I been around on the web for a while with people saying this, mostly in Youtube comments, but for some reason in my mind I only thought there were people that thought like that on the internet. I had a discovery that two of my friends thought the company is kiddy when we had a discussion about current gen consoles. I got really mad for a bit and asked exactly what is kiddy about their art in terms of game design. They went on about how a grown man can play Mario nowadays and one said he could never play Wind Waker because it was so kiddy. I was like the smurf?

I then ran into a sista in one of my classes and I found out that she plays games. I talked to her after class and she said she plays the 3DS. She said yeah, there's Animal Crossing and Pokemon, but their problem is that it's mostly just a bunch of kiddy stuff. Those two experiences just opened my eyes and I can't see how someone takes the aesthetics with such importance when the gameplay is the primary thing that makes up the game.

Do any of you think Nintendo is kiddy and look down upoon their first party title games?

Nintendo's aim isn't really to be "Kiddy" but to be family oriented. These are games grandma will feel ok buying for Little Jimmy or Sarah.

I can understand the notion that the games seem pretty tame when compared to CoD or Assassin's Creed, but really, Nintendo finds ways to make excellent games anyone can play.

I love Nintendo games and I love the fact that they appeal to audiences of all ages.

Yeah, I'm one of those people.. While Mario games are pretty well polished and fun to just sit down and play. But I see them as more super polished time-waster games, rather than real meat-and-potatoes games. I can't sink my teeth into Mario. There's no compelling plot or character development. Not supposed to be, yes. But Zelda games don't really have that either. Or Metroid. Or Starfox. The games are pretty and they play really well and I was fine playing pointless games as a kid. But as an adult, I require a bit more stimulation for my brain while occupying myself with a game. In that regard I find them childish. Having tried a Paper Mario game recently, I have a hard time believing Nintendo is capable of making anything that mentally stimulates me like I need out of a game. It's much less about the aesthetics for me though, if that's any consolation. Collecting a hundred pokemon or building a town full of furries just doesn't do anything for my adult brain :/

I was actually surprised because for my generation, Nintendo is for family friendly casual gamers. Whenever I want something lighthearted or silly, I first look to Nintendo (like for Tomodachi Life, Harvest Moon, Girls Fashion Shoot, Family Feud, etc) and for RPGs and stuff I generally look elsewhere first unless I specifically know of a title I want, like Bravely Default.

My surprise comes from the fact that apparently for the generation before mine (SNES, NES) there was a thing called "Nintendo Hard" when Nintendo released some very difficult and unforgiving games. Made me chuckle at the difference

People still say that about Nintendo? Man, that takes me back to about 10-15 years ago. My guess is that most of the people who say that are male teens to very young adults because most people around those ages are trying to get away from things they perceive to be childish. They haven't learned to look past the surface on such things sometimes.

It's kind of the same thing with Disney. When the same people were kids they'd dig their movies or whatever, but when they hit the teens...

"Psh, this is SOOO GAY! Even though I am going to puberty/barley finished I know that a REAL MAN doesn't like stuff like this!"

Flash forward a few years later....

"Oh, wait. This is fun and is supposed to appeal to more than kids. Yeah, this is fun again!"

Not every dude acts this way, but I see that sort of thing happen a lot across all types of media.

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Originally Posted by Sephex

People still say that about Nintendo? Man, that takes me back to about 10-15 years ago. My guess is that most of the people who say that are male teens to very young adults because most people around those ages are trying to get away from things they perceive to be childish. They haven't learned to look past the surface on such things sometimes.

It's kind of the same thing with Disney. When the same people were kids they'd dig their movies or whatever, but when they hit the teens...

"Psh, this is SOOO GAY! Even though I am going to puberty/barley finished I know that a REAL MAN doesn't like stuff like this!"

Flash forward a few years later....

"Oh, wait. This is fun and is supposed to appeal to more than kids. Yeah, this is fun again!"

Not every dude acts this way, but I see that sort of thing happen a lot across all types of media.

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Or, as C. S. Lewis said it:

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

I do love that quote.

That sorta thing always confused me. Because I feel I can relate, yet it's considered immature to feel that way? Am I to presume that my need for depth and complexity are different than someone outright running away from their childhood? Because I mean, I watch cartoons. But again, they have to have depth, complexity, development. Something I can sink my teeth into. The Last Airbender, Zim, the new Thundercats. Leagues ahead of most things kids watch these days, and it's not even nostalgia there, I didn't grow up with those, but I do still love Smurfs and Gummie Bears which I did grow up with. But I consider The Last Airbender mature, and suitable to my tastes. Mario just doesn't fit the bill. But I may be taking unnecessary offense to the notion that my opinion is invalid and that I'm not a legitimate adult

But it's different. You're saying you need more story depth, which is of course fine and you have the full right to. The post is about dismissing something completely just for being childish on the surface, only for the sake of distancing yourself from being a child. Your not bashing those games for being childish, but for not offering the depth you're looking for, which is something completely different.

I love the fact that Nintendo haven't really changed much in 25 years. Yes, their flagship games have little or no plot to speak of but the gameplay is always near enough flawless. Seph was right in that they're very much like Disney, loved by kids and adults alike. If I'm not allowed to like Nintendo games then I don't want to be an adult any more.

I'm off to make jam sandwiches and play with my train set.

Well no, Nintendo isn't going to crank out a Call of Duty or a GTA and I think "kiddy", if a loaded word, is an accurate description. Childlike? Whimsical? Wonderful? (In the literal sense) It's not necessarily a bad thing. Everybody has different tastes and likes different things from games and indeed all media. I will readily confess that Nintendo's brand of innocent charm isn't really to my tastes but I wouldn't sneer at somebody who did like it, just as I don't sneer at people who like brodown games like CoD. A lot of people do have superiority complexes about the types of games they like, I guess. I'm content to enjoy what I like, leave you to like what you like and disregard the morons.

Yeah, I just want to say I came here to express the sentiment (which Psy beat me to) that 'childlike' and 'childish' are two very different descriptive words. I would definitely say that Nintendo's main games are childlike, but I wouldn't call them childish.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

But Zelda games don't really have that either. Or Metroid. Or Starfox.

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:confused:

I can see this for a lot of Nintendo's properties, but you just named some of their most serious.

Starfox is the most lighthearted of the 3, but even it has some more serious theme and ideas.Metroid and Zelda have some pretty engaging and serious stories and atmospheres.

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Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg

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Originally Posted by Vyk

But Zelda games don't really have that either. Or Metroid. Or Starfox.

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:confused:

I can see this for a lot of Nintendo's properties, but you just named some of their most serious.

Starfox is the most lighthearted of the 3, but even it has some more serious theme and ideas.Metroid and Zelda have some pretty engaging and serious stories and atmospheres.

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Oh, c'mon, Majora's Mask is totally a lighthearted romp for kids. Then too, Metroid's atmosphere was heavily influenced by Alien, and we all know that's one of the most kid-friendly movies in existence.

Not only do Nintendo games handle mature themes and atmospheric elements, but I find that they when they do so, they actually address the subjects with more actual "maturity" than a lot of M-Rated games.

I still think MM is a masterpiece of video gaming and anyone who does want mature yet subtle should invest some time in to it

(@sharky, and to a lesser degree sky, but more addressed in the first edit, posts popped up while I was typing)

Compared to other Nintendo properties, yes. But in the context of my tastes, sadly, it doesn't hold up. I'm trying to think of fair comparisons to illustrate what I need out of games, where not everything has to be a BioWare RPG. Platformers are a hard sell. By their nature they don't require much plot or character development. So I quit playing Mario for not suiting those needs. But then along came Braid. With bits of mystery and snippets of really interesting and charming characterization. Weird and intriguing gameplay. And an end-game reveal that was so out of left field I didn't even get it at the time, it was later explained to me and made me appreciate it even more. To me, Mario is just colorful with good controls, but there's nothing else to it, for me

Looking to games like Zelda or Metroid where you're basically just running around killing stuff and solving puzzles or getting upgrades to advance, they kinda only have that going. Link meets some weird characters but they rarely add anything to the story other than plot convenience. Shiek is usually about the only character that ever helps advance the plot outside of giving Link something useful for the next dungeon, or giving him a horse to ride around on. And the only Metroid I've ever sunk much time into was Prime, and even then it kinda grated on me. I tried regular and Super Metroid and lost interest in them pretty quickly for not offering anything other than random exploration and weird bugs attacking me. I didn't get anything out of it. But now there's "Metroidvanias" that I think built the exploration and mechanics into the game with much more necessity. And adventure RPGs like Fable and Darksiders has raised the bar beyond Zelda's forgettable and whimsical characters and plot convenience. Things actually feel like they're at stake. The characters (especially in the Darksiders example) or well fleshed out and really interesting. And on the Metroidvania front we have things like Cave Story, which to me so much a better Metroid. Probably because it has memorable characters. Again, things are at stake. Characters are at stake. There are things I can sink my teeth into. I figure out the mystery of what's going on. Watching my friends die. And doing everything I can to save anyone I can while I can. For such a simplistic game, it was delivered phenomenally. Not trying to say if you enjoy Cave Story for what it is, then you must be too advanced to enjoy Metroid or that there must be something wrong with anyone who enjoys Metroid

Their charm and appeal are just lost on me, because I need those deeper ideals. There needs to be better reasons for me to play. More at stake. More mental stimulation. Hopefully I've made a good illustration

Though comparing things to Starfox is hard. That series is generally fun as hell, and there aren't a lot of really good spacefaring dogfight sims out there to take the crown. But I wish there were, because Starfox also just feels like a really fun time-waster. Unfortunately

Edit: Regarding Majora's Mask. I have never played it. I attempted to, through emulation, especially because OoT was the only Zelda game I've enjoyed to completion. But even as someone who is not a fan of the series, I am aware enough to know that Majora's Mask is basically the black sheep of the Zelda-verse. Is there any other game in the series quite like it?

As far as Metroid, I think I probably need a bit more than atmosphere, sadly. It also might be that I didn't play any Metroid game until well after Symphony of the Night. I either was an adult, or close to it. So by the time I got to Metroid, that dark depressing atmosphere was lost on me. It just felt like a lot of running around in the dark with a lot of backtracking. It may have been wholly different had it played it as a child. Same probably goes for Zelda. I had Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy and then I got my Genesis and only played Sega games until mid high school. They didn't hit me at the most impressionable time in my life. Who knows what the reasoning is

I should also admit that I don't play games as much as I would like. Not nearly enough. My standards are too high even for me. I taste test a lot of games, but barely any of them have lasting appeal. I don't just game to game, I'm constantly looking for something. Always trying to find "that game". Which delivers a transcendal experience rather than just something fun to do to unwind. I hate it. But it's how my brain is wired. And with those standards in mind, Nintendo just really doesn't offer enough for me :/

Actually, Zelda has been getting darker and more in-depth as the series has aged. There are several games that tackle mature themes and concepts, though Majora's Mask undoubtedly does so with the most depth. I've heard Skyward Sword does a decent job, though I haven't gotten far enough in to be sure. But Link Between Worlds actually does quite well through the handling of its primary villain.

Also, none of your arguments have declared the games as "kiddy". Not being to your taste is one thing, but don't slap an incorrect, dismissive label on something just because of that.

Finally, no one has brought up Fire Emblem yet? I didn't want to be the first one but if no one else is going to mention the obvious...

I don't know if there are other Zelda's like Majora's Mask, because the only Zelda games I've played are it and OoT. I can tell you MM is much deeper and it is very involving. I am a huge fan of character driven stories. The characters are well fleshed out and have oodles more personality and story than most in OoT. That's one of the reasons I love it so much and one of the things that makes it so heartbreaking is you CARE about the NPC's in a way very few games pull off. Usually NPC are just background, but in MM they make the story.

You can go through the game rather quickly while doing no sidequests, in which case its not all that deep or meaningful or touching, but if you actually invest the time in to it, it does a great job of adding a certain depth to it that I have rarely found in other games. Not to mention all of the theories floating around about it that can make you see the game in a different light. Its incredibly touching, several character stories have made me cry, and the game actually makes you WANT to save them all, despite the fact that until you finish the game it is incredibly difficult to do. And then when you turn back time everyone is just miserable again and it breaks your heart.

As far as other games that do something like you asked, its really hard to give suggestions because I'd say that's more subjective. Majora's Mask did that for me. So did Final Fantasy IX. So did the Xenosaga's and some of the Suikoden's. As far as Fire Emblem, I love Awakening and all of its characters and its dating sim elements and its made it to be one of my favourite games, but it didn't really give me "that" feeling.