Kefka vs Goku

So to sum up the Physical vs Magic attack thing I decided to pit the strongest villain of the FF series against the strongest hero of the DBZ verse sine they're the definition of the respective attributes. Though Goku can use energy attacks too, but they're ki based and it's known in the DBZ verse Goku and most of the Z fighters are weak to magic attacks like Buu's candy beam (it's magic). It's said that Ki has no real chance against Magic since they're too different things. Kefka being the god of magic that he is knows really every magic spell there is to know in his respective universe. Goku knows instant transmission, Kefka knows teleport. On that note, Kefka's weak to physical attacks as it's been exploited in the end boss battle in FFVI. Goku's punches must hit like a damn megaton because of his strong physical attributes. Both of them fight at their strongest- Goku at Super Saiyan God and Kefka at his Magic God form. Depends if Goku can get a hit or a energy attack in before Kefka teleports away and casts Forsaken, Havoc Wing, or Heartless Angel and it depends if Kefka is smart enough to see what Goku's gonna do next or predict his attacks. So who will win? If you think I should've chose a different villain let me know. I had Ultimecia, NeoExDeath, and Safer Sephiroth in mind when it came to power. But what do you think?

I think DBZ characters are ridiculously OP as smurf so Goku would probably win out.

It's a question of speed. Don't forget that magic takes time.

This is Kefka's weakness in the game. Even at battle speed 1 (the fastest battle speed; player characters are not affected by +/- battle speed at all), Kefka is ridiculously slow.

One wonders, if he has wings and the most powerful source of magic in existence, why all four of your party members can get a turn before he gets one.

Even in my mod where his speed is set to 128, for some reason his agility gauge (hidden) seems to start the battle at 0 by default. Your characters are allowed to begin inputting commands right away.

Kefka wouldn't come close to Goku's speed. He'd be speechifying and Goku's fists would already be on their way to his gut.

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

Kefka wouldn't come close to Goku's speed. He'd be speechifying and Goku's fists would already be on their way to his gut.

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They'd spend 19 episodes just talking about beating each other up.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Angus

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

Kefka wouldn't come close to Goku's speed. He'd be speechifying and Goku's fists would already be on their way to his gut.

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They'd spend 19 episodes just talking about beating each other up.

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But the abridged version of those episodes would be hilarious!

Yeah, DBZ characters are a little ridiculous. His better Square-Enix counterpart would be Id from Xenogears. Course Son Goku has nothing on Giovanni Giorno and his Gold Experience Requiem. That thing is bulltrout...

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Yeah, DBZ characters are a little ridiculous. His better Square-Enix counterpart would be Id from Xenogears. Course Son Goku has nothing on Giovanni Giorno and his Gold Experience Requiem. That thing is bulltrout...

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For those who don't know what Wolf is talking about, in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5 (I didn't even know you were a Jojo fan until now!) the main character, Giorno, has a Stand (which is a supernatural being that fights alongside the character) called Gold Experience. An event that I won't spoil happens later on and it becomes Gold Experience Requiem.

Requiem has the power to reset the opponent's state back to zero. Actually, the way it was explained, he could reset just about anything back to zero. So if Goku tried to attack, Giorno could just have GER reset his attack power and everything back to nothing.

Araki (series creator) did kind of a troutty job explaining the full extent of GER's power to the point where he had Giorno explicitly mention in the manga itself that he didn't understand the power fully.

King Crimson (a later antagonist's Stand) is also so stupidly overpowered and convoluted that any questions fans have about the Stand are usually answered with a picture of King Crimson that reads, "it just works."

Part 4 was when some of the Stands got really weird, but Part 5 just took the weirdness to a whole new level.

King Crimson isn't too difficult to understand, he just has the power to erase 8 seconds of time and make reality work like those 8 seconds never happened. It's a BS ability as well, which is why GER had to have a more BS ability. Some fans theorize Giorno might actually exist in the SBR Universe as himself since his Stand could theoretically counter Made in Heaven's ability from Part 6.

The point is that JoJo's Bizarre Adventures is awesome and you should all read it.

Meh, it started to suck once they brought in the whole stands thing. It was really awesome before that though.

Now I don't particularly want to engage in internet what-ifs involving DBZ, but we should also note that it seems like when they power up to the max they seem to be able to use their chi to negate whatever magical effect is convenient to neutralize.

Not all the time, the Buu Saga kind of showed that magic still works, regardless of chi power. Besides, we're talking about a Stand that could stop Goku from actually charging up. Now whether Giorno's Stand could actually hurt Son Goku is a different story but I have confidence Giorno could at least fight Goku to a draw with GER.

Yes, but said magic was used by an entity with comparable (or greater power) than the target. So it doesn't really tell us much at all.

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150118/ejocjne7.jpg

- Goku is a Super Saiyajin God and a Super Saiyajin 4
- though inconsistent Goku's power was always shown to be in range of space destroyers (Vegeta Saiyan Saga: planet, Cell Cell Saga, Solar System, et cetera)
- Goku can teleport
- Goku's movement speed is beyond imagination (certain situations, so ridiculous that it even is inconsistent)
- Goku does not only use Chi but also use mind powers like telekinesis and reading minds (vs Frieza, Kuririn, et cetera)
- Goku can charge the entire power of the universe in one move (Genki Dama)
- Goku's universe does not work with the flawed causality paradox-causing concept of making something not happen even though it has happened but with the concept of a multiversal tree so whatever is done is done and something else will only affect a new branch - still inconsistent but at least a bit more logical
- Dragon Ball characters already were able to make a long combo within 5 seconds during the first tournament (Roshi VS Kuririn)
- if Goku cannot be magically overwhelmed by Kefka so he he cannot even teleport away or anything like that there is no way to actually hurt him, if there is some actual way to bring them into the same system there might b a chance with magic being so different
- Kefka does not work within the concept of Dragon Ball, he is not even shown to be a real god - other than Goku - but only compared to a god "he is like a god" which is something entirely different; in Dragon Ball God Chi can also not be felt by someone else than a God (e.g. Beerus could not be felt by Goku but by Kaioh before Goku himself became a god)

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

- Goku is a Super Saiyajin God and a Super Saiyajin 4
- though inconsistent Goku's power was always shown to be in range of space destroyers (Vegeta Saiyan Saga: planet, Cell Cell Saga, Solar System, et cetera)
- Goku can teleport
- Goku's movement speed is beyond imagination (certain situations, so ridiculous that it even is inconsistent)
- Goku does not only use Chi but also use mind powers like telekinesis and reading minds (vs Frieza, Kuririn, et cetera)
- Goku can charge the entire power of the universe in one move (Genki Dama)
- Dragon Ball characters already were able to make a long combo within 5 seconds during the first tournament (Roshi VS Kuririn)
- if Goku cannot be magically overwhelmed by Kefka so he he cannot even teleport away or anything like that there is no way to actually hurt him, if there is some actual way to bring them into the same system there might b a chance with magic being so different
- Kefka does not work within the concept of Dragon Ball, he is not even shown to be a real god - other than Goku - but only compared to a god "he is like a god" which is something entirely different; in Dragon Ball God Chi can also not be felt by someone else than a God (e.g. Beerus cannot be felt by Goku but by Kaioh)

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Continue to study the concept of communication. You are a thoughtful person, but you don't know how to explain a premise or compose a message.

My degree in psychology, including communication psychology, tells me you are wrong. Short answers are enough.
Thank you, Psychotic.

Okay let's get back on topic, not talk about each other. Thank you.

Kefka wins because he's mean and evil enough to open the battle by casting Stop.

Is Goku wearing a Ribbon? Great!

...Except that Ribbons don't protect from Time Magic.

This is the only imaginable scenario in which Kefka comes out the victor without Goku receiving outside help. Otherwise, Goku is waaaay out of Kefka's league.

@ Sephiroth: Sorry there, old chap. I'm a comm major too...I just focus on 5 minute songs. ;)

ninja edit

If Goku brings a peace ring and Hermes sandals to the battle Kefka's screwed harder than an IKEA TV shelf

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

Kefka wins because he's mean and evil enough to open the battle by casting Stop.

Is Goku wearing a Ribbon? Great!

...Except that Ribbons don't protect from Time Magic.

This is the only imaginable scenario in which Kefka comes out the victor without Goku receiving outside help. Otherwise, Goku is waaaay out of Kefka's league.

@ Sephiroth: Sorry there, old chap. I'm a comm major too...I just focus on 5 minute songs. ;)

ninja edit

If Goku brings a peace ring and Hermes sandals to the battle Kefka's screwed harder than an IKEA TV shelf

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But knowing Goku wouldn't know the FF verse's stats and items too well he might come a bit unprepared except for bringing his clothes on his back and his power and intellect (if it's that big). I think your scenario might be true since the rules of the FFverse don't apply to DBverse. But I remember one guy saying on DBZ forums that if Babidi the wizard who revived Buu was a fighter with the magic he was able to use, he'd probably the deadliest enemy they ever fought. Buu was something but his magic knowledge was limited to turning people into candy. Babidi had a far larger variety of magic attacks. So I guess a Babidi fighter would be a bit like Kefka in some ways. Not to sound bitter, but I think a lot of people overestimate the DBverse and Goku.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150118/ejocjne7.jpg

- Goku is a Super Saiyajin God and a Super Saiyajin 4
- though inconsistent Goku's power was always shown to be in range of space destroyers (Vegeta Saiyan Saga: planet, Cell Cell Saga, Solar System, et cetera)
- Goku can teleport
- Goku's movement speed is beyond imagination (certain situations, so ridiculous that it even is inconsistent)
- Goku does not only use Chi but also use mind powers like telekinesis and reading minds (vs Frieza, Kuririn, et cetera)
- Goku can charge the entire power of the universe in one move (Genki Dama)
- Goku's universe does not work with the flawed causality paradox-causing concept of making something not happen even though it has happened but with the concept of a multiversal tree so whatever is done is done and something else will only affect a new branch - still inconsistent but at least a bit more logical
- Dragon Ball characters already were able to make a long combo within 5 seconds during the first tournament (Roshi VS Kuririn)
- if Goku cannot be magically overwhelmed by Kefka so he he cannot even teleport away or anything like that there is no way to actually hurt him, if there is some actual way to bring them into the same system there might b a chance with magic being so different
- Kefka does not work within the concept of Dragon Ball, he is not even shown to be a real god - other than Goku - but only compared to a god "he is like a god" which is something entirely different; in Dragon Ball God Chi can also not be felt by someone else than a God (e.g. Beerus could not be felt by Goku but by Kaioh before Goku himself became a god)

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Did you draw that? Because if you did I like it, it's awesome :)

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

But knowing Goku wouldn't know the FF verse's stats and items too well hr might come a bit unprepared except for bringing his clothes on his back and his power and intellect (if it's that big). I think your scenario might be true since the rules of the FFverse don't apply to DBverse. But I remember one guy saying on DBZ forums that if Babidi the wizard who revived Buu was a fighter with the magic he was able to use, he'd probably the deadliest enemy they ever fought. Buu was something but his magic knowledge was limited to turning people into candy. Babidi had a far larger variety of magic attacks. So I guess a Babidi fighter would be a bit like Kefka in some ways.

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Magic has always proven to be a 50:50 thing in Dragon Ball. Sometimes you resist, sometimes you don't. Also magic can be deflected. Boo counters the transformation magic, Vegeto is totally immune against being negatively affected by it as his candy form makes no difference for him, Babidi's mind control magic is useless for Vegeta as he is corrupted and stronger with it but does not follow Babidi's orders, et cetera. So basically it is all about the "if you are stronger than that you can resist it" again. And Dragon Ball characters are very resilient to magic that they do not want to negatively affect them. You would need someone who actually is shown to have really overwhelming power while wielding magic. Something Kefka was not shown to have. He devastated the landscape and made it infertile. Piccolo Daimaoh was able to use such destructive power already. Kefka's power is not fleshed out enough. Oh - and Boo is not limited to just making sweets.

You need to have power that is really shown to be overwhelming.

If we take X-Death for example he would be totally useless against Goku. The Void is not just shown like some space-time-less "thing" but also shown like a prison from which you can break out. Right before the final battle they do. And that makes the Void already another dimension even though it shouldn't be. Goku can break out of other dimensions. Boo and Gotenks also did. As a matter of fact Goku, Boo, Cell and others have even teleported between dimensions.

EDIT: Yes, I did draw it. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

But knowing Goku wouldn't know the FF verse's stats and items too well hr might come a bit unprepared except for bringing his clothes on his back and his power and intellect (if it's that big). I think your scenario might be true since the rules of the FFverse don't apply to DBverse. But I remember one guy saying on DBZ forums that if Babidi the wizard who revived Buu was a fighter with the magic he was able to use, he'd probably the deadliest enemy they ever fought. Buu was something but his magic knowledge was limited to turning people into candy. Babidi had a far larger variety of magic attacks. So I guess a Babidi fighter would be a bit like Kefka in some ways.

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Magic has always proven to be a 50:50 thing in Dragon Ball. Sometimes you resist, sometimes you don't. Also magic can be deflected. Boo counters the transformation magic, Vegeto is totally immune against being negatively affected by it as his candy form makes no difference for him, Babidi's mind control magic is useless for Vegeta as he is corrupted and stronger with it but does not follow Babidi's orders, et cetera. So basically it is all about the "if you are stronger than that you can resist it" again. And Dragon Ball characters are very resilient to magic that they do not want to negatively affect them. You would need someone who actually is shown to have really overwhelming power while wielding magic. Something Kefka was not shown to have. He devastated the landscape and made it infertile. Piccolo Daimaoh was able to use such destructive power already. Kefka's power is not fleshed out enough. Oh - and Boo is not limited to just making sweets.

You need to have power that is really shown to be overwhelming.

If we take X-Death for example he would be totally useless against Goku. The Void is not just shown like some space-time-less "thing" but also shown like a prison from which you can break out. Right before the final battle they do. And that makes the Void already another dimension even though it shouldn't be. Goku can break out of other dimensions. Boo and Gotenks also did. As a matter of fact Goku, Boo, Cell and others have even teleported between dimensions.

EDIT: Yes, I did draw it. Thank you.

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Hmm. Makes sense but I have to ask. Which FF villain would have magic power that is straight up overwhelming? Next on the list I could say Ultimecia, Cloud of Darkness, and Zeromus. But I will say, Ki attacks can be deflected too. I've read that prominent Ki users don't exactly have good resistance against Magic kinda like Superman. But if what you say is true and being turned into candy doesn't affect someone like Vegito then you'd have to try something a little less comedic and a little more...upscaled. A attack like Big Bang, Particle beam, Ultima, Supernova (less of a illusion and more actual that destroys the solar system, and Flare. Kefka has a small advantage of being able to attack before Goku could get anywhere by simply calling out Forsaken and Goku wouldn't exactly see it coming since it'd come from everywhere. But if he knows Magic well enough to resist it or at least avoid it he'd have an advantage. SO I guess we can say that Transformation magic and mind control magic should be thrown out as it doesn't exactly apply here. Purely offensive and defensive and medical magic would apply here in Kefka's case. I say so because transformation and mind control can be resisted or may not affect the affected. I think Kefka has the advantage of range as well, then again Goku does too if he's using Spirit Bomb, Kamehameha, or Destructo disk. I read a few fanfics in which Dante from DMC (not the crappy reboot but the original) fought Goku and the much was a draw but it said that if it was a fight to the death Dante would more than likely win because of his regeneration, magic abilities, and Devil Trigger. Goku fought at SSG here but I thought it was alright and would hint the Magic>Ki barrier. Strange thing, Dante recognized he used Ki so I guess Dante's smarter than Goku?

Goku wins. because he doesnt laugh and he aint a clown.

please dont fight

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Originally Posted by Gruntace101

Goku wins. because he doesnt laugh and he aint a clown.

please dont fight

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But Goku does laugh when he's enjoying something. But, that clown did actually achieve more than Sephiroth ever could. He actually destroyed the world. I think earns a title as one of history's most successful villains along with Diablo.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

Sephiroth Kefka comparison

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By moving some statues and on a planet that did not even fight back.

No Sephiroth Kefka thing here please.

And Caius is the most successful Final Fantasy villain.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

Kefka wins because he's mean and evil enough to open the battle by casting Stop.

Is Goku wearing a Ribbon? Great!

...Except that Ribbons don't protect from Time Magic.

This is the only imaginable scenario in which Kefka comes out the victor without Goku receiving outside help. Otherwise, Goku is waaaay out of Kefka's league.

@ Sephiroth: Sorry there, old chap. I'm a comm major too...I just focus on 5 minute songs. ;)

ninja edit

If Goku brings a peace ring and Hermes sandals to the battle Kefka's screwed harder than an IKEA TV shelf

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But knowing Goku wouldn't know the FF verse's stats and items too well he might come a bit unprepared except for bringing his clothes on his back and his power and intellect (if it's that big). I think your scenario might be true since the rules of the FFverse don't apply to DBverse. But I remember one guy saying on DBZ forums that if Babidi the wizard who revived Buu was a fighter with the magic he was able to use, he'd probably the deadliest enemy they ever fought. Buu was something but his magic knowledge was limited to turning people into candy. Babidi had a far larger variety of magic attacks. So I guess a Babidi fighter would be a bit like Kefka in some ways. Not to sound bitter, but I think a lot of people overestimate the DBverse and Goku.

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Well, yeah. Goku would get his ass kicked the first time and then train. His friends would then try to fight Kefka in the meantime and get their asses whooped, the usual suspects would all die, Goku would learn a new technique, come back and they'd fight for 20+ episodes and Goku would win and then use the Dragon Balls to bring his dead friends back to life. Kefka would make a return on a series of inferior quality and die in one punch by Gohan.

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

It's a question of speed. Don't forget that magic takes time.

This is Kefka's weakness in the game. Even at battle speed 1 (the fastest battle speed; player characters are not affected by +/- battle speed at all), Kefka is ridiculously slow.

One wonders, if he has wings and the most powerful source of magic in existence, why all four of your party members can get a turn before he gets one.

Even in my mod where his speed is set to 128, for some reason his agility gauge (hidden) seems to start the battle at 0 by default. Your characters are allowed to begin inputting commands right away.

Kefka wouldn't come close to Goku's speed. He'd be speechifying and Goku's fists would already be on their way to his gut.

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At "battle speed 1". What's next, tidus is stronger than cloud because his game maxes out standard attacks at 99999 instead of 9999? :p

While we're at it, anyone in disgaea can get more total HP than any final fantasy character can deal in one attack round.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

At "battle speed 1". What's next, tidus is stronger than cloud because his game maxes out standard attacks at 99999 instead of 9999? :p

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The pool of games in which there is knowledge of Kefka's fighting techniques and strengths/weaknesses is extremely small compared to the towering library of DBZ info out there.

It's either FFVI or Dissidia you have to go by.

DON'T JUDGE ME

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Originally Posted by Spooniest

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Originally Posted by Mirage

At "battle speed 1". What's next, tidus is stronger than cloud because his game maxes out standard attacks at 99999 instead of 9999? :p

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The pool of games in which there is knowledge of Kefka's fighting techniques and strengths/weaknesses is extremely small compared to the towering library of DBZ info out there.

It's either FFVI or Dissidia you have to go by.

DON'T JUDGE ME

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Ooooo. Which would be best to go off of in this case?