Marilyn Manson - The Pale Emperor

Alright, so I know that I'm probably the only one who cares about this, but I feel like making a thread anyway. Plus, I feel that this is worth a look even if you are not a Manson fan or feel like his best days are behind him.

The Pale Emperor is the new album from Marilyn Manson. In short, I think it is the best one since the peak Manson years, and it could possibly even rank among those records. Word is a lot of people/media feels the same. So far the worst reviews are just mildly complaining that it doesn't pack a punch (and those people are totally missing the point and direction this album is taking).

Before I go into the new album, let me discuss my feelings on the rest of them so you have an idea of where I am coming from.

____________________

Portrait of an American Family
Positives: Absolutely classic Manson tracks on here. It's very interesting to hear the early sound of this band today.
Flaws: The tracks that are duds are really cheesy and forgettable. Never understood why some Manson fans insist this album is the best.

Antichrist Superstar
Positives: There's a reason why this album made Marilyn Manson a household name. Not even counting tracks like "The Beautiful People" this album is a classic album that was made from art through adversity.
Flaws: I guess the pacing can seem off at times, and songs like "Wormboy" sound like if Weird Al did a style parody of the band. Seriously, the chorus says, "When you get to heaven/you will wish you're in hell."

Mechanical Animals
Positives: Underrated album. Very underrated. I've said this before on the forum: Manson could have easily phoned in another dark a spooky album, but chose to make a half glam rock album and half melodic emotional driven powerhouses.
Flaws: Not many people realized that the glam stuff was Manson poking fun at himself. As much as I like the album, it took me awhile to get used to the jarring shifts in genres.

Holy Wood
Positives: A brutally dark album that showcased what the band learned with the second and third albums. This was a grower for most, as it was around this time album sales started to suffer, but ultimately this became the best selling album in terms of worldwide sales. This was Manson's equivalent to larger than life concept album.
Flaws: Couldn't help but feel the imagery shifted back to a darker tone since Mechanical Animals turned off a lot of the metalhead crowd. Also dipped too much into mixing the styles of the last two albums, so many songs are too reminiscent of other hits.

Golden Age of Grotesque
Positives: Manson teamed up with KMFDM's Tim Skold to great some nifty industrial-like songs. Since the second, third, and fourth albums all were part of a self contained story, it was refreshing to see Manson branch off in a new direction.
Flaws: This is where songs started to become forgettable. Overall, the album is solid, but where it fails are tracks that don't go anywhere and material that BARELY went in said new direction.

Eat Me, Drink Me
Positives: It has some good moments on here. Tim Skold actually still was working with Manson, but this wasn't a repeat of industrial-like songs.
Flaws: Definitely the weakest Manson album by far. This was the longest break between Manson albums and it was created in a weird time in Manson's life where he felt the need to start a relationship with then 19 year old actress Evan Rachel Wood when he was 40. He basically made the album for her (as well as a recent failed marriage). Brushing aside his personal life, most of the album just sounded off and very forgettable.

The High End of Low
Positives: Twiggy is back in the band! Who is that? Only the guy who wrote the music for ALL of Manson's hits. This effort tried to experiment with some weird tracks, and it was nice to see Manson having fun again with more high energy songs.
Flaws: This album should have cut a good 4 or 5 tracks. The duds on this one are just embarrassing. It was cool that Twiggy was back, but maybe he doesn't have the songwriting chops he used too...

Born Villain
Positives: ...or maybe he does! This album was an EXCELLENT return to form. There are tracks that sound like older Manson material, but in this case it works since it was so long since those days by this point. There is even a speed metal track in this one!
Flaws: Again, the duds are DUDS. Not enough to ruin the return to form, but just having a few songs that sound like your best years isn't enough to save the day completely.
____________________

And that brings me to The Pale Emperor. Manson FINALLY makes a record that tries something new (in terms of comparing the album to past works) and does it without relying on having songs that sound (or try and fail) like material from the 90s and early 00s.

Major credit goes to Tyler Bates, who basically did everything musically for this album. Who is that? Well, this dude has scored plenty of movies, including Guardians of the Galaxy. Manson said he was aiming for a more cinematic feeling for this album, and it really shows. If Manson is up for a 10th outing, I hope Bates sticks around.

The only flaws I can think of (and one of them doesn't personally bother me) is that Manson fans looking for more of a high energy deal probably won't dig this. Also, Manson tends to repeat lyrics a bit too much for my liking on this one.

When reading general impressions across the internet about this album yesterday, I saw a person say that this album is a "slow burner." That's the best way to describe it. Manson doesn't feel out of place making a more bluesy, raw album here. It stands on its own regardless if you are like me and are intimately familiar with the band's history and the man himself, or if you never listened to a single Manson track in your life.

To finish this off, I am going to post three tracks from this album and very brief thoughts.


This is the single from this album. Love the moody, smoky feeling I get from it.


This is the closest the album gets to older Manson material, and definitely the most energetic song. Still, fits in with the album perfectly.


This is simply one of my favorite songs off the new album. Just has such a nice groove. I love the guitar so damn much.

I've never been much of a fan of his work, but I appreciate you talking about it, because I can tell it's an artist you really like.

I might check out this new album just to see what the sound has evolved into. Also, I like a lot of KMFDM (they also have a lot of duds), so I might go check out that earlier album.

Well, if you decide to check it out I hope you enjoy it. I fully expected this thread to be a ghost town. I mainly wrote it up for my own amusing as I was winding down from work the other night. I honestly just had fun writing the post up and reflecting on each album for a bit.

As I said in my original post, I think Manson really aligned himself with something special musically. Before the current album released awhile back, I did some research into Tyler Bates (mainly his film side of music stuff since Manson was aiming for that sort of feel), and I felt that it was promising. I'm glad to see that it is working out. As a Manson fan that hung around no matter how silly things got, it's refreshing to get an album that I feel so positive about since the peak years. Basically I only felt that Eat Me, Drink Me and The High End of Low were more or less low points since I still enjoyed material on those albums. As much as I liked Born Villain it still felt like something was missing. But yeah, I am repeating myself, so I'll stop!

As for Golden Age of Grotesque(the industrial one), keep in mind that it's not TOTAL industrial (as I said, industrial-like). However, you can definitely tell that Skold worked on the album. "This is the New S***" is probably the most industrial sounding song on there. It has some good jams as well as an interesting (but admittedly goofy) song that combines swing music with and industrial edge. At that time Manson was really into 30s German art stuff, as well as the abstract artform known as Dadaism, so that's why parts of that album seem to go off the rails (not in a bad way for the most part).

I've hated almost everything he's done since Holywood, and haven't really loved anything that he's done since Mechanical Animals. I wasn't even going to bother with this new release, but since you've given it so much praise I will at least give it a listen.

I feel that this record is a good fresh start. Again, Tyler Bates is unlike anyone who he has worked with before. I think Manson's problem has been him trying to be a control freak about things and pushing his imagery/theme over the music itself. This record feels like he finally took a step back and just concentrated on making music with people instead of worrying about some grand scheme he is cooking. Hope you enjoy it, man!

Gave 'em a shot, but I don't see any of the old spark. Not particularly creative or original or well crafted, and lyrically kind of generic and empty. Tracks that you might like might be different than what I would like to hear, so I'll listen to the others before completely brushing this off as another wasted effort. I'll also give these another listen later just to make sure, but yeah, I want to hear an artist(s) at work and I just don't.

Hmmm, that's too bad. I think they did a fantastic job putting it together. I guess since I kept up with the band the whole time I have a different set of expectations and desires. I'm glad this record sounds the way it does. Lyrically, it is a bit on the weak side, but I'm never was a huge lyric person. I focus way more on how a song sounds in most genres. I think at the very least that this record is a massive improvement over the last few efforts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephex

Hmmm, that's too bad. I think they did a fantastic job putting it together. I guess since I kept up with the band the whole time I have a different set of expectations and desires. I'm glad this record sounds the way it does. Lyrically, it is a bit on the weak side, but I'm never was a huge lyric person. I focus way more on how a song sounds in most genres. I think at the very least that this record is a massive improvement over the last few efforts.

---

I too am first and foremost concerned with the sound, but if I'm not digging the sound, sometimes the lyrics can help propel the music (or prop it up). We can agree on that last part at least.

I just want to be blown away again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chionos

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephex

Hmmm, that's too bad. I think they did a fantastic job putting it together. I guess since I kept up with the band the whole time I have a different set of expectations and desires. I'm glad this record sounds the way it does. Lyrically, it is a bit on the weak side, but I'm never was a huge lyric person. I focus way more on how a song sounds in most genres. I think at the very least that this record is a massive improvement over the last few efforts.

---

I too am first and foremost concerned with the sound, but if I'm not digging the sound, sometimes the lyrics can help propel the music (or prop it up). We can agree on that last part at least.

I just want to be blown away again.

---

I hear you, man. I guess my mentality that nothing will really compare to the debut of Marilyn Manson (in terms of the public eye) unless it is a brand new artist. Most the "oomph" from Manson for most of us had to do with the emergence of someone that was divergent of what was happening in the music world at the time. Sure, there have been acts similar to Manson (hello Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, etc.), but he definitely had his own unique spin.

I also think a lot of people forget that they were young teens when Manson was new. Don't get me wrong, the peak years of Manson still hold up overall, but if you examine them closely all these years later there are definitely aspects that did not age well. The lyrics I mentioned in my original post from "Wormboy" is a good example. Even the music itself has never been all that complex in my opinion. Most of my favorite Manson songs are ludicrously simply structured (but still sound good if you're into it). My favorite song of the entire discography is "The Reflecting God" but it's not like that violent, angry guitar riff during the chorus was some innovative music writing or a fresh take on metal in general.

Yikes, I sound like I am dissing Manson too much. I don't mean to come off that way. I guess I was just trying to exemplify my point that most people forget where they were and the time/circumstances of when Manson broke into the mainstream.

By the way, I am absolutely incapable of experiencing Marilyn Manson anything these days without thinking of that goddamned Onion article. After all these years, it still gets me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necronopticous

By the way, I am absolutely incapable of experiencing Marilyn Manson anything these days without thinking of that goddamned Onion article. After all these years, it still gets me.

---

Hahahaha, I remember that one! That's sort of what I meant earlier when I said he was focusing on imagery/themes too much. When he was promoting The High End of Low, I facepalmed because he was all pumped in an interview saying how it was going to offend everyone.

Oh smurf me, that's one of the best Onion articles ever. Perfect.

So I gave the record a listen from front to back. Overall, it is not as bad as anything I remember from the last few records, but nothing really caught my attention either. Maybe I just don't have the same level of attachment to or respect for Brian as I did in my high school days. Maybe one play just isn't enough. Either way, I think at this point he'd have to do or release something pretty groundbreaking for me to give a 60+ minute record repeat listens, especially with so much other incredible new music vying for what little time I have to digest audio these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necronopticous

So I gave the record a listen from front to back. Overall, it is not as bad as anything I remember from the last few records, but nothing really caught my attention either. Maybe I just don't have the same level of attachment to or respect for Brian as I did in my high school days. Maybe one play just isn't enough. Either way, I think at this point he'd have to do or release something pretty groundbreaking for me to give a 60+ minute record repeat listens, especially with so much other incredible new music vying for what little time I have to digest audio these days.

---

I can understand that. Glad you gave it a shot. My musical taste have also grown a bunch since when I first started listening to Manson, but I'll admit I am far more into the band than most these days. I've said it before and I'll say it again (and I kind of already said it in this thread), but Manson really wrote himself into a corner with how heavy the band relied on imagery.

It's hard to blame him though because as much as I see people look back on Mechanical Animals today fondly, I remember at the time there were a lot of old school fans that really were put off by the new direction in sound. Even the very few who got that the glam stuff was a tongue in cheek sort of deal just weren't into it. So naturally Manson went back to almost the same exact imagery for Holy Wood. Basically every record after that has been a different shade of darkness. Now, while I personally enjoyed material from all the records, I totally understand why people just aren't into it anymore, or have a ho-hum reaction to the better newer material. The scene has changed to much.

Still, I am very happy with the record. I think it's a step in the right direction. Does that mean another outing will be better or something groundbreaking will happen? I don't know. Probably not. But at this point I don't think anything he can possibly do would be groundbreaking in the sense that most people would consider it without really changing things up, but at that point it might be too different. See what I mean when I said he wrote himself into a corner?

Ah well, I'm just glad I got to talk about Manson to people for a change. It's been a long while since I have done that!

I'll put my faith in you, Sephex, and give it a listen! Holy Wood was my album. I liked AS and MA but I always felt HW was like a perfect midway point between the two. I kind of... I dunno, I don't want to say grew out of it but maybe that's the word. When I heard the single mOBSCENE I was like yeah no, this isn't for me anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychotic

I'll put my faith in you, Sephex, and give it a listen! Holy Wood was my album. I liked AS and MA but I always felt HW was like a perfect midway point between the two. I kind of... I dunno, I don't want to say grew out of it but maybe that's the word. When I heard the single mOBSCENE I was like yeah no, this isn't for me anymore.

---

Oh yeah, I recall years ago that you cited Holy Wood as your favorite.

Now, will you like the new one?! Or am I the only one that is still into Marilyn Manson!?

TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR GOTHIC BALL Z!!!

Did Slipknot make any albums after Iowa? Did Korn do anything after Untouchables? Tune into Psychotic's Teenage Favourites: Where are they now? - only in The Lounge!

Great write up of the albums, Sephex. Even though it's not a regular album, I'd like to give a special mention to the Smells Like Children EP for really putting the band on the map. Sweet Dreams sold that album and to this day it's one of their highest selling records.

I might have said this before, but Mechanical Animals is my favorite Manson record. Despite being a single, The Dope Show is the only song on the record I could really take or leave. The interesting thing here is that people associate John 5 with the guitars on this record due to the fact that he toured it and was in the music videos, but he actually joined the band after it was completed.

I'm not the biggest fan in the world of Portrait but Lunchbox and Dope Hat are so good they'd make it onto a greatest hits if I were to make one. There isn't a Manson album that I dislike. Eat Me Drink Me is one of my favorites and i'm sure i'm in the minority there.

I still haven't given a proper listen to Born Villain or The Pale Emperor. No reason why, really. There was a time there where I was discovering new music and becoming absent minded of long time favorites.

Original guitarist Daisy Berkowitz has the rights to the original Spooky Kids songs and released a remastered album. This is one of my favorites as well as a few more of my favorite Manson songs: