Snow is the best character in Final Fantasy XIII.
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Snow is the best character in Final Fantasy XIII.
Aw man, trout's gonna go down...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
People take Snow way too seriously. Once you look back at him after a while, you learn to love him for being the big dumb goofball that he is. Also, his lines around the point where all six members have just united for the first time are particularly great.
That's like being a polished turd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
People hate Snow?
I didn't play FFXIII but I watched Mister Adequate play quite a lot of it (while I was on the couch playing 3DS) and Snow was one of the better characters.
Yeah, this. I didn't like Snow at all the first time through, but he grew on me a lot when I replayed it, because I stopped taking him so seriously and realized he's just a big derp who wants to punch stuff until it behaves itself :3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
People hate atrocious writing in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike
Snow is awful. Of course, Hope, Vanille, and Fang are also awful. And Lightning isn't great.
I think I need to get a list of people who like Snow and people who don't like Snow so I can scrub the "Likes Snow" and "Doesn't Like Snow" headers and put in "Likes Fun" and "Doesn't Like Fun", and know the truth.
I think Snow had some potential, but was executed to poorly.
Sabin did it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
They weren't thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Egami
all this bout is snow good or not. well you see it isnt a question of is snow is good or not. its how can snow even compete with Sazh and his epic frocobo. ah ah, yeah see got yoou thinking there
These are the questions that keep me up at night. How many chocobos does he have in that hair anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruntace101
The trouble with FFXIII is it's hard to know if you meant this as a compliment or a 'Suddenly and painlessly is the best way to to die' kinda way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
0.91 frocobo'sQuote:
Originally Posted by ToriJThese are the questions that keep me up at night. How many chocobos does he have in that hair anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruntace101
You'll have a better chance answering the old scholastic question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ToriJ
Wrong, wrong, super wrong, super wrong, and wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuuky
That's no way to talk about yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Adequate
What if I just hate big dumb goofballs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Snow is an idiot. While I don't hate him, his lines are cringeworthy. He does not behave like an adult, even a fun-loving one, would.
And ToriJ's right. Sabin did all you guys praise Snow for, but did it first, did it better, and did it with way more subtlety than any of the writers on FFXIII could ever comprehend.
Vanille actually might be the single worst character in any RPG I've ever played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister AdequateWrong, wrong, super wrong, super wrong, and wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuuky
Fynn, I think you are mistaking "This character loves fun" with "This character is fun". I consider Snow to be lots of fun. As for Sabin doing it better, I disagree, he wasn't the big dumb goofball. He was far from a goofball. Sure, he was strong, he occasionally did dumb, but I honestly think that if Snow and Sabin were completely switched and Snow did all the things he did in 2D as part of the FFVI party then nobody would have blinked, and if Sabin did the things he did in 3D as part of the XIII party then people would have critiqued him for it. For some reason, people can handle a lot of fun in 2D but the moment you put that same slapstick into a 3D game like XIII people start taking the game too seriously and start crying foul.
PS. I really like Sabin, too. But the two are very different, only linked by being blonde, muscular, using their fists and not incredibly intelligent. I think their personalities are definitely different.
Nobody's crying foul because of their being some silliness and "slapstick" (I don't think that means what you think it means if you're using it to describe Snow) in a 3D game. They're crying foul because Snow was a complete idiot and was anything but fun.
He was just one of the many characters in that game that never reacts believably to anything that happens. And it's not even just him being in denial, he is literally so stupid that he doesn't realize the trout that's happening to him should bother him a bit. He wasn't a fun loving character keeping a sense of humour in the face of adversity. He was an idiot goof off that didn't seem to notice anything bad was even happening.
Just add him to the pile of half assed writing in that game. The whole thing was a rush job and it shows.
Nobody expects an FF to be 100% serious and nobody wants an FF to be 100% serious. That's not even remotely the problem with the game. If anything, FFXIII spends entirely too much time taking itself seriously which makes characters like Snow and Vanille stand out even more as being so completely out of place because they never take any of it seriously, even when they probably should.
Couldn't have put it better myself. Trying to make a character less serious never justifies poor writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
All I'm hearing is "rah rah rah I don't like FFXIII, everything about it is terrible, like I always say." :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
You're saying he was anything but fun, but I know a lot of people who feel completely the opposite. I know a number of people who would buy a game with him as the lead character! :D
The thing about Snow is that clearly it was not the intention of the writers that he should be an idiot. They way red someone that comes off as passionate, determined, positive, inspiring. Except in this particular context, it backfires, quite cringe-inducingly. A perfect example of terrible writing ruining a character that could have worked. In general, the writing in FFXIII is a huge disappointment because there's so much potential in the concepts that it could have really been a better story in the proper hands.
I don't care what they intended (and I won't make assumptions about it, but it would be strange if they wanted him to not be seen as an idiot at the same time as making him get punched and wall-faced repeatedly throughout the game), I care what I got in the game. Snow was awesome for me. Initially I disliked him but over time he just grew on me more and more. I didn't care for him in battle (which is weird as I love playing tank roles in MMOs) but his general personality won me over in the end. I do agree that FFXIII in general could have been better than it was when it came to the writing, but Snow? Snow was fine for me. I know a lot of people who feel similarly. He clearly divides opinion, but I found him to be the most fun character and was always interested in what he'd do/say next.Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Am I the only one here who didn't terribly care about the quality of the writing? xD I have enjoyed a lot of things with poor writing. Plenty of other FF games come to mind :p
Apologies that I'm continuing to derail the thread.
I would t care about writer intent either, if it weren't for the fact that this is an obvious fumble. If you can enjoy it - good for you. Things like that prevent me from enjoying things like this, however.
I might have been able to forgive the terrible writing if the rest of the game wasn't just as bad. The only redeeming qualities it held for me were a couple of songs on the soundtrack. Not a good reason to keep playing a game, let alone enjoy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike
You are so wrong that you are Hyper Hitler Mk. 2.0 :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SpuukyVanille actually might be the single worst character in any RPG I've ever played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister AdequateWrong, wrong, super wrong, super wrong, and wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuuky
I like XIII just fine. I like Vanille a lot. I don't like Snow. I mean, in real life I would like him fine because while he has his cringeworthy moments, he's a nice guy to the core and you know he'd be there for you
But in game I got really annoyed by a lot of the things he would just say when I'm trying to get through town with people trying to kill me. Just please Snow. Stop. Please
I'm fine with Snow, because Sazh is a stupid stereotype with birds in his hair, and Lightning, Vanille, and Hope were super annoying and lame (especially Hope, come back when your balls drop, little boy). Fang and Snow were pretty much the only non-annoying characters in the game. While Snow had a monopoly on dumb, he wasn't monotone or stereotypical on top of it. You got Fang too late in the game to even matter, so it's almost like she never existed to begin with. But when you do get her, wow.
Fine, I'll add my opinion...
Hope: no
Snow: ugh
Sazh: meh
Lightning: fine
Fang: yes
Vanille: <333
This, I think, is what's at the core of the dislike for him. He just seems to be completely void of any sort of logical sense, or concept of cause and effect. Not even legitimately dumb (but still smart enough to function independently in society) people would behave like Snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
For me, this usually went down like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
"Oh please Snow don't say or do anything stupid now"
"No no no! Just shut your stupid face!"
"Stand back! Don't move!"
"Aw trout here we go again."
Snow is the best because Troy Baker is the best and his theme song sounds like Dynasty Warriors music, which also happens to be the best. Admittedly flimsy reasoning but it's Final Fantasy XIII, they didn't exactly set the bar high.
If they wanted good slapstick then they should have allowed the voice actors to use their god given talent to make it not come across as cringeworthy. Troy Baker is probably the best VA in the business right now and they completely waste him just like they waste everything else that could have been good in that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
So? You know people who like him. I know people who dislike him. What's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoBAll I'm hearing is "rah rah rah I don't like FFXIII, everything about it is terrible, like I always say." :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
You're saying he was anything but fun, but I know a lot of people who feel completely the opposite. I know a number of people who would buy a game with him as the lead character! :D
sadly nobody stopped at the Frocobo statement :(
( i like how half of this thread is literaly just an argument about snow.)
ok this is a fact proven.... Snow is a very minor character in FF VII so there! now whatever you say affects this ice woman. please don't fight.. if not for me or yourselves. then for this woman.. who happens to be an enemy.. but still!
:shrug:
Don't worry, Grunt, this is just a regular weekday for us. No one is taking anything said personally. At least I hope not. My anger is only directed at inanimate objects, and non-existent people, and video game companies, and movie companies, and TV stations, and the GOP, and the NRA, and the Tea Party-- *goes on a tangent listing things he hates*
I watched an interview with Troy Baker somewhere where he said that XIII is actually what really kick started his career as a video game voice actor. Something to think about I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToriJ
I don't see what there is to think about. My issue isn't with the voice actors, it's how they were used. They were given limited material to work with, that isn't a reflection on their acting ability or anything. And kick starting someone's career doesn't make a game good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamerI watched an interview with Troy Baker somewhere where he said that XIII is actually what really kick started his career as a video game voice actor. Something to think about I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToriJ
I should just say that it's just interesting to think about to me. He was really appreciative of Square in that interview just because they were the ones that really gave him a chance in a big role like that. It helped put him on the map. That won't change that you don't like his voice work in this game (I think it's fine... it just sounds like Troy Baker. The lines aren't necessarily great, but his voice is great even here in my opinion. That's just me though). I just find it interesting is all.
Edit: I also was in no way trying to insinuate that it makes the game good or anything. Was just throwing that tidbit out there.
Editra: I was just quoting your thing because it suddenly reminded me of that interview when I read it. The point I'm trying to make through my edits was that I wasn't meaning to try to argue against your post or anything.
Thanks for clearing that up. I just didn't understand what you meant by that post initially.
oh well thats lol. you just simply moved the part of the thread with the snow argument in it. you have saved Wolf kanno's soul and he can then proceed to choose FF XIII as number 1 hated RPG and...stuff
I thought it was Kanji? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamer
Regarding "But he doesn't behave like an adult!" - he's only 21, I'd say he acts about as sensible as quite a number of 21 year olds in this world. But seriously, why would I want everyone in the game to act like an adult? That would be dull. Even "fun loving" ones, you still need the less sensible people to shake things up. I can't think of a single Final Fantasy game I've played where everyone acted like an adult and I still found them all great. I wouldn't say Snow acts like a child, either, though. He acts like someone who is desperate to prove himself (to himself as much as anyone else) and encourage others. I think there's a lot more to Snow than most people think, because they focus too much on the parts you see throughout the majority of the game. Vanille gets similar treatment.
Snow is a great character. He was intended as a reliable and still an often silly character. Even Lightning in Episode Zero shows why exactly she does not want Serah to marry him. It does not clash at all with what is intended/what is canonical. Of course we an still dislike it but seeing how much of a jolly character is that really would do everything for the people he likes even though he does not do it the smartest way and whose mental breakdown from 1 to 3 was shown so well and you can still rely on him, shows me he really is a well-written hero.
Also I must laugh about the adult comment coming from an internet forum. I must have forgotten the internet is full of mature geniuses who would never act like Snow and there is also good chance I get a super-intelligent (supposedly) reply to that post.
To put it in a nutshell: I like Snow.
By adult I didn't mean mature. He just doesn't act somebody with a fully functioning brain. In a game so void of any self-awareness, a character like that just looks like someone who's really mentally impaired.
I just want my characters to be people. I simply cannot enjoy Snow because he is a caricature in a game that tries to be serious and profound. I consider it bad writing.
The characters weren't the worst part of the game. I'm struggling to remember as it's been so long since I played the game but - I didn't remember finding the characters annoying really, including Vanille! It's just that I didn't care about them. Well apart from Hope. He's probably the only character I disliked when playing a video game. People talk about Tidus, Rikku, Squall, etc. as being examples but I liked them all. But Hope started blaming Snow for his mothers death when he had nothing got to do with it. It was annoying.
To be fair though, the characters were IMO hurt by a poor story. They throw words at you like 'L'Cie, and Fal'cie, and I was expected to know it from the get-go. 80% of the time I had no idea what was going on in the game. I had to go to Paloompaloompa or whatever it's called. Why? All of sudden a guy wearing a wedding dress is my enemy. Why? It didn't make sense. And the reason I came to know all that is because I had to read through data-logs to scrub up on it. It was so much fun. :shobon:
Storylines have been SE's huge downfall since the merge.
I agree regarding storylines, although I'll note that I felt FFV's storyline was average at best and VIII's storyline was pretty bad (despite this, they make up two of my favourite three Final Fantasy games). XII's storyline I never fully wrapped my head around, despite playing it twice (if any game ever needed datalogs, FFXII was it). I've always felt that FF is really bad with endings and general world plots, while great at character writing, gameplay, world-building and graphics.
The world plot problem isn't as common as the ending problem, but ironically the worst plot I've experienced (VIII) also had the best ending. And when I say 'ending', I mean post-final-boss-events. I mean, you look at VII's ending. One of my absolute favourite games of all time. The Lifestream comes out, smashes up meteor, BANG we don't get to find out what happens to any of our heroes with the exception of Red XIII. Before anyone says Advent Children, that wasn't out until years later, it doesn't count.
Vanille's Hecatoncheir transforms from Machina Maw into Full Throttle.
Made an account just to post this
http://kuja9001.tumblr.com/post/9120...evised-edition
At first I could actually identify with Hope in that I thought Snow was an impossibly oblivious character, that he acted so cheesy and upbeat despite real people dying around him for his cause. But then you have the reconciliation scenes and by that time you realize that Snow has suffered himself and it's that positive attitude that he uses to try to keep others motivated as well.
Haven't played the game since I beat it a few years ago but that's how I look back on it.
The Snow and Hope subplot was what kept me going through the first half or so of XIII. I wanted to see what would happen when the confrontation finally happened.
I was not disappointed.
Snow and Hope have the best development in the game.
Along with Vanille:
Hope x Vanille forever.
And Lightning is awful. I will never fathom the Snow hatred while Lightning is right there, being a mega ultra bitch.
To be fair, if she wasn't that way, we'd not get to see some great scenes and that infamous (in my mind) line of "Worst. Birthday. Ever."Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover
Gosh I hated Lightning
I'm posting this here because it seems appropriate. I am in chapter nine at the moment and actually had to heal, which is where I noticed how slow light is to cast cure. She just casually takes her sweet time like this is a game or something!