Who was the dumbest Stark: Ned, Robb or Catelyn?

Ned

• Trusted Littlefinger despite him telling Ned not to
• Followed Jon Arryn's steps to the letter in his top secret investigation.
• Told Cersei everything he knew about her children
• Totally ignored both Renly and Littlefinger's plans to avoid bloodshed
• Ignoring Arya overhearing people plotting about him despite the tense political climate
• Not telling Jon Snow about his parentage
• Telling Sansa about how she can't marry Joffrey before leaving King's Landing

Catelyn

• Randomly leaving Winterfell and going to King's Landing with one bodyguard
• Her general treatment of Jon Snow was pretty dumb
• Kidnapping a powerful Lannister on the vague evidence of someone she knew as a child
• On that subject, told Ned he could trust Littlefinger implicitly
• Negotiated the marriage Robb Stark - the King in the North - as well as Arya just to cross the Twins.
• Staying with Robb instead of going home to Bran and Rickon and indeed agreeing to be his envoy
• On that, she did a grand job of securing alliances with Stannis and/or Renly didn't she...?
• Betraying her son to give away Jaime Lannister on the random hope that the Lannisters might give Sansa and Arya back, and with just one guard into the middle of the war
  

Robb

• Declaring himself King in the North and thus alienating two potential powerful allies in Stannis and Renly
• Sending Theon, a hostage, back to the Iron Islands and taking away any leverage he had over House Greyjoy on the hopes they'd agree
• Agreeing to the marriage proposal to the Freys just to cross when again he could've just gone around
• Breaking said marriage proposal
• Not telling Edmure Tully - a major commander in his army - his plans to lure the Lannister forces into the Westerlands, thus smurfing them up
• Trusting Roose Bolton despite him repeatedly losing battles... except for his own men who always emerge miraculously unharmed
• Beheading Rickard Karstark and thus alienating a major northern house for some vague sense of "justice"

I think I convinced myself it's Robb but all three were dumb. Yes yes, I know, honour, grieving mother, green boy, etc. Still dumb. :greenie:

Catelyn. If she didn't go CSI Winterfell and start throwing out accusations everywhere without proper evidence, trout probably wouldn't have progressed so much that her husbands head got cut off and her son didn't declare himself a king and get himself killed.

I don't know, they were all pretty dumb.

Ned was probably the most dumb in that he assumed the world was generally as honorable as he was. But at least all his moves were consistent with his own sense of honor.

Robb made mistakes any grieving child would make and only for a few of them should he have known better.

Catelyn's moves, however, made no sense at all. The way she trusted Littlefinger and made her husband trust him is beyond me. She should have known who that guy was. Her advice to Robb was terrible and her carelessness with regards to her own safety and that of her sons is not how a mother would act. Freeing Jamie was the dumbest move at all and made no sense but at least that accidentally worked out somewhat.

Where's the Bran option? If that little dummy had just listened to his mom and not climbed the wall, then 90% of the other trout wouldn't have happened.

I think the poll is for the dead Starks.

Catelyn is the wooooooooooorst.

Robb.

At least Ned and Catelyn had good reasons to act the way they did. Robb was literally just thinking with his dick.

Well, if I have to pick one of those three, then it's Catelyn for damn sure. That whole family's dumb, though.

Catelyn was stupid. I can see why Robb and Ned did there stuff, but Catelyn was all "i'm a strong woman" kept making weak child mistakes.

I think Robb. He just thought he was so damn untouchable.

Yeah, and there was this whole "I'll ruin her honor if I don't marry her she's pregnant." You know, you could have not ruined her honor by boffing her.

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Originally Posted by chionos

Where's the Bran option? If that little dummy had just listened to his mom and not climbed the wall, then 90% of the other trout wouldn't have happened.

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Corpses only.

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Originally Posted by chionos

Where's the Bran option? If that little dummy had just listened to his mom and not climbed the wall, then 90% of the other trout wouldn't have happened.

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I dunno about that, man. There was still the whole thing with Jon Arryn being poisoned by the Lannisters. Bran seeing Cersei and Jaime really only expedited the situation.

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Originally Posted by Jinx

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Originally Posted by chionos

Where's the Bran option? If that little dummy had just listened to his mom and not climbed the wall, then 90% of the other trout wouldn't have happened.

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I dunno about that, man. There was still the whole thing with Jon Arryn being poisoned by the Lannisters. Bran seeing Cersei and Jaime really only expedited the situation.

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Erm. (SPOILER)The Lannisters didn't poison Jon Arryn. Lysa did.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

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Originally Posted by Jinx

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Originally Posted by chionos

Where's the Bran option? If that little dummy had just listened to his mom and not climbed the wall, then 90% of the other trout wouldn't have happened.

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I dunno about that, man. There was still the whole thing with Jon Arryn being poisoned by the Lannisters. Bran seeing Cersei and Jaime really only expedited the situation.

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Erm. (SPOILER)The Lannisters didn't poison Jon Arryn. Lysa did.

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heavy sighI KNOW THAT. But wasn't the whole thing fabricated by Littlefinger (with Lysa's help) to start a war between the Starks and the Lannisters? So my point is, someone was always trying to get those two families pissed at each other.

Bran would still be walking, the assassin never would've attacked, Tyrion wouldn't have been put into custody and there'd be no war in Riverrun, and maybe Jaime wouldn't have killed some of Stark's men and smurfed up Ned. Not sure how many things would've changed if Tyrion was in King's Landing at the time all of this was happening. Ned probably still would've gotten his head chopped off.

I can't even remember the exact details from all the way back then, but I do remember loudly swearing at catelyn the most.

Ned was the most oblivious, Robb was the most self-absorbed, but Catelyn was the dumbest. Between the Tyrion-arresting and the Jaime-freeing, and everything else mind-bogglingly stupid in between, when I read the books there was a point when I just gave up on her character entirely because it was so unbelievably and unrealistically stupid. Like Del said, some of her actions just made absolutely no sense. At least Ned's conduct was consistent with his "honor" and Robb's consistent with his ego (and desire for hot chicks), which made some of their own ridiculous stupidity at least halfway believable (albeit not always understandable); Catelyn's conduct was only consistent with her irrational stupidity and the need to force plot points.

Of course, this discussion is basically awarding the prize for the slowest at the snail race.

I think I'd give it to Catelyn, but I don't think any of them were especially dumb. They had assumptions and prejudices and acted along those lines, that's a very different thing.

I actually don't think Ned was dumb. I just think he was too honorable and kind. If he had've gone to Robert as soon as he knew about her children and had her arrested immediately, he would've lived. So would his family. Maybe. The Lannisters probably still would've started a war. However, I think the power would've been on his and Robert's side. I think the thing that pisses me off most about Ned is that his need for honor and mercy ended killing his family and endangering his children.

Catelyn...she did some stupid stuff. But I don't look badly about her as everyone else does. She was a mom looking out for her kids. Then her husband was murdered and her children held hostage (well, they all assumed Arya was in King's Landing). Her oldest child started a war and she was worried there. So yeah, while she did stupid stuff, she wasn't thinking clearly and she did it out of love. I think that's forgivable.

Robb just literally couldn't keep it in his pants. He didn't marry Talisa (or Jeyne in the books) because he got her pregnant. She got pregnant after (and in the book I don't believe it's confirmed if Jeyne is, isn't, or ever was pregnant). He married her because he had sex with her and he had to be "honorable" and marry her after. And because of that, he became an oathbreaker. He had a very good chance of winning the war if he had just been able to control himself for a few minutes. Everyone told him not to cross Walder Frey or make a deal with him lightly, but he didn't listen.

Robb is definitely the dumbest. He made the worse choices and some of which could've been avoided. He is indirectly responsible for his own death, the death of his mother, his unborn child, and his wife.

I don't believe Ned was dumb at all except in trusting Littlefinger who obviously hated him. I don't think being honorable and hopeful is dumb. There are some people who gave good intentions, unfortunately for him he didn't listen to the ones who did.

I'm so, so, so, so, so happy that no one answered "Ned". I loved his character dearly.
I still laugh and look back at my naive self of when I first started watching (I've never read the books... sorry, folks) and thought that Ned was going to be the main character.

Lol.

Robb is definitely the dumbest Stark. Cat was a bitch but she was still somewhat smart.

To be fair, he is basically the main character of both the first season and book. Granted, it's an ensemble cast, but the first book/season's events main revolved around him.

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Originally Posted by Jinx

To be fair, he is basically the main character of both the first season and book. Granted, it's an ensemble cast, but the first book/season's events main revolved around him.

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Not quite what I meant. I mean back when I thought he would be the MAIN character. Like, the entire show would follow him.

Robb was young and his head was filled with the dreams of conquering for his family and bannermen's freedom and wearing a crown of glory and honor. Show me a teenage boy who doesn't think he's immortal (you can't).

Catelyn knew better and chose to act irrationally in every available circumstance, therefore she is the most stupid.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Robb was young and his head was filled with the dreams of conquering for his family and bannermen's freedom and wearing a crown of glory and honor. Show me a teenage boy who doesn't think he's immortal (you can't).

Catelyn knew better and chose to act irrationally in every available circumstance, therefore she is the most stupid.

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Robb also couldn't keep his anaconda in his pants. After all, he was only a teenage boy, like you said. He would have never sat on the throne, and if he did, he wouldn't have been king for long. He was too trusting to begin with, and he believed in honor (whether it be retaining or regaining it) more than the rest of Westeros does.

Well, he followed his father's code, which was what got them both killed. It wasn't him marrying Talisa that got him killed, it was making the poor decision to call on the Freys and to try to uphold an ounce of honor and reconciliation.

On the advice of Catelyn. So she is the actual worst.