Fynn's top 10/bottom 5 FF list!

Since I'm done with my top 25 games list (after a long, 33-year waiting period), I've decided to make one for FFs!

This one's gonna be a bit different. It' actually going to be two lists. First I'll go through my bottom 5 FFs, so that I get all the death threats that are inevitably coming out of the way, and then I'll move on to my top 10. These reviews will be much shorter than my top 25 and I hope to post them daily. Also, I'll be adding an audio version to each, so that you can listen to my lovely voice reading them to you, if you're so inclined ;)

As usual, this list is highly subjective and I am not saying that any of these games are really, objectively bad/awesome and that you're a bad person for liking/disliking any of them. It's all in good fun. Stay tuned for part 1 of my bottom 5 FFs list later today ;)

Here's a handy list for navigation!

Bottom 5:

• #5: FINAL FANTASY III
• #4: CRISIS CORE: FINAL FANTASY VII
• #3: FINAL FANTASY XIII
• #2: FINAL FANTASY X
• #1: DIRGE OF CERBERUS: FINAL FANTASY VII

Top 10:

• #10: FINAL FANTASY X-2
• #9: FINAL FANTASY II
• #8: FINAL FANTASY IV
• #7: FINAL FANTASY IX
• #6: FINAL FANTASY VII

Looking forward to seeing where IX and VIII rank!

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Looking forward to seeing where IX and VIII rank!

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The good/ban news is that one of them is not making an appearance at all.

oh

*readies evil glare*

Oh yes, poor Karifean. I think you at least like Final Fantasy IX!

Let's get this started! Bottom 5 FFs, here we go!

Click here for the audio version ;)

#5: FINAL FANTASY III
http://media.gamerevolution.com/imag...antasy-iii.jpg

As this game shows, this list does not necessarily contain games I consider bad. Final Fantasy III is still a very solid game, in my opinion. it’s just that I experienced it at a point that it really left me disappointed.

But let’s start with the good things. Final Fantasy III was definitely ahead of its time when it comes to the story. While the main characters have no personalities of their own (and only little hints of them in the DS remake), the villain presents moral complexity that was, at that point in time, unheard of. Xande feels hurt that, out of all of his master’s disciples, his gift was the gift of mortality. In his eyes, it was a curse, even though his master truly considered it a blessing and gave it to him because Xande was his most beloved disciple. People’s opinions on this move are still divided to this day and if you start a topic on it in the FFIII section of our forum, I’m sure a lot of people will be willing to discuss.

Okay, now that the nice thing is out of the way, allow me to move on to why this game is on this list and not the other. We all love the job system, right? Final Fantasy III introduced this mechanic, but unlike the one found in Final Fantasy V, this particular version does not stand the test of time. While in FFV you could mix and match job abilities to fully customize your party, here all skills are set to their corresponding class, making switching jobs a huge hassle. In the end, I ended up assigning each of my characters one class and sticking to it till the end, because there was really no point in investing any time into the others. Kind of a letdown, if you ask me.

The world, while interesting in its layered structure, was also quite a drag to explore. You can’t fly over mountains until you get your best airship – and even then, you only get to fly over some very tiny mountains. This really killed my sense of freedom which I would expect out of getting an airship. Also, even in the remake, you can only save on the world map. There are no save points, and the final dungeon is incredibly long with a very painful boss rush near the end. Beating Final Fantasy III really depends on luck and requires tremendous patience. It’s really one of the worst examples of fake difficulty I have ever encountered.

Still, all things considered, it’s not a bad game at all. It was certainly ahead of its time in many ways. Perhaps I just played it too late, since I only had a chance once it got released on the DS – at that point I’d played most of the series already. Overall, it was just a very dated experience for me that failed to impress me to the degree that I’d hoped.

I think I liked it but I still have to go back and play it, it's been so long. Arc is just precious though :flirt:

I still need to play that one. Not surprised it landed on here. People seem pretty meh about it.

The DS release of III is actually one of my favorite FFs :p It's the only pre-VII FF that I really enjoyed playing.

It's a fun little game. Difficult as heck, but still fun. V, Tactics, & X-2 all improved on the job system, but that doesn't take away from the game. It's too bad Squeenix never upgraded it during the PSX era when they upgraded many of the other games. But it probably wouldn't've been the same as the DS/Steam version.

Click here for audio!

#4: CRISIS CORE: FINAL FANTASY VII

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Here’s an easy target. The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII is widely considered to be a trainwreck, yet for some reason, Crisis Core is usually called one of its more… shall we say, “least harmful” elements. Heck, there’s people who adore this game! For some unfathomable reason!

To certain point, I can see why, though. Crisis Core is, for the most part, very fun to play. A complex materia system, combined with old-school summons and a real-time battle system – it’s got the fundamentals of a really solid action RPG. The story is a nostalgia fest for FFVII fanboys, centering around probably the most beloved character of Final Fantasy VII - Zack. And the music is nice.

But none of those things (aside from the music) is without serious issue. The battle system is fun at first, but then comes the grinding. Endless chains of repetitive quests that you need to keep taking if you want to level your materia properly. But be careful not to undertake too many! Otherwise, you’ll be ridiculously overpowered. See, “balanced” is the last word I’d use to describe this battle system.

The story, while not as ridiculously stupid as a certain other entry into this sub-series (oh, you know the one, and don’t worry – it’s time is coming), is still pretty smurfin’ dumb. Not to mention very fanficky. Remember Doctor Whatshisface? The one responsible for most of the stuff that happened in FFVII? No, not Hojo. The other guy. Of course you don’t – he’s been retconned in. Just like Rufus’s brother, Rude and Reno’s buddy Cissnei, and of course, Sephiroth’s old BFFs – Angeal and Genesis. This wouldn’t be half bad if any of these characters weren’t so painfully Mary Sue-ish, but they are. Genesis gets the award for the lamest, sissiest villain of all time. At least they developed the Zack and Aerith relationship in this game quite nicely. That part I really enjoyed.

So again, not quite a bad game, but one that kinda poops all over the source material. There’s some good things about it – things that are actually very enjoyable – but the overall end effect is that I felt kinda used after playing this.

I couldn't get in to it. It took the things I disliked about VII and amplified them x)

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

I couldn't get in to it. It took the things I disliked about VII and amplified them x)

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Which ones do you mean?

Mostly story and characters. To me, VII was a game with great potential in the story but it fell short of what it could have been. So when they go back and explore the backstory, they could have pushed it a bit further to reach that potential. Instead it made it worse.

I also disliked most of the characters and they did no favours to the cast. But I haven't played the whole thing so who knows!

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Mostly story and characters. To me, VII was a game with great potential in the story but it fell short of what it could have been. So when they go back and explore the backstory, they could have pushed it a bit further to reach that potential. Instead it made it worse.

I also disliked most of the characters and they did no favours to the cast. But I haven't played the whole thing so who knows!

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Interesting! :monster: I can see how Crisis Core amplified those pet peeves :D

Not surprised to see this one here either. I have the game but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I watched all the cut-scenes on YouTube a long time ago and enjoyed it. Even Genesis didn't annoy me until they added him to the Mako reactor scene. Smurfing asses.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Not surprised to see this one here either. I have the game but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I watched all the cut-scenes on YouTube a long time ago and enjoyed it. Even Genesis didn't annoy me until they added him to the Mako reactor scene. Smurfing asses.

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Well, you should try it anyway. Some scenes are pretty good and the gameplay is not half bad. But then again, it did kind of manage to ruin FFVII for me, so yeah...

But really, Zack and Aerith are really cute here, and it helps that she's voiced by Andrea Bowen here, instead of frickin' Mena Suvari or Mandy Moore.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Not surprised to see this one here either. I have the game but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I watched all the cut-scenes on YouTube a long time ago and enjoyed it. Even Genesis didn't annoy me until they added him to the Mako reactor scene. Smurfing asses.

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Well, you should try it anyway. Some scenes are pretty good and the gameplay is not half bad. But then again, it did kind of manage to ruin FFVII for me, so yeah...

But really, Zack and Aerith are really cute here, and it helps that she's voiced by Andrea Bowen here, instead of frickin' Mena Suvari or Mandy Moore.

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Never said I wasn't going to try it.

I pretty much agree with everything you said about Zack and Aerith.

I would argue that even the Zack and Aerith parts are not that great since Aerith has caught AC Cloud-syndrome and went from being one of the most optimistic characters from VII into being a shrinking violet who is always worried about something that Zack has to cheer her up about.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I would argue that even the Zack and Aerith parts are not that great since Aerith has caught AC Cloud-syndrome and went from being one of the most optimistic characters from VII into being a shrinking violet who is always worried about something that Zack has to cheer her up about.

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Well, she was just a teen-- *remembers flashback scenes with her as a kid*

Never mind.

I found it cute that it was Zack who inspired her to be so optimistic and outgoing. But maybe that's just my headcanon.

Click here to listen to my lovely voice bumble in frustration.

#3: FINAL FANTASY XIII

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2..._XIII_Logo.jpg

Okay, time to move on to the actual “bad” list.

Yeah, it’s number 3. I can already hear the voices screaming “how dare you not put it on the number one spot!”, while others shiver in dread, anxiously awaiting what game may be ranked higher. But the reason for all this is that… I just can’t hate it. I’m sorry.

Don’t get me wrong. Final Fantasy XIII is a complete mess in every sense of the word. The story makes no sense whatsoever, while trying to present itself as something deep and poignant; the gameplay is so disjointed that you can barely see any traces of coherent thought put into it. It’s terrible. And I just can’t bring myself to hate it.

The only thing I feel about this game is pity. There were a lot of great ideas in this game that were realized so poorly, that I honestly feel like the creators got forced to release it when it was still in the initial stages of writing. The only thing this game is for me is a huge, sad heap of wasted potential, which is unforgivable.

At least it looks pretty. And the music is amazing, thanks to the wonderful Masashi Hamauzu. You go Hamauzu-san! Keep composing unbelievably beautiful soundtracks to terrible games!

You forgot all the people who'll be mad at you for putting this on the list to begin with because they actually like the game.

We all know number one is FFX, anyway. :p

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

You forgot all the people who'll be mad at you for putting this on the list to begin with because they actually like the game.

We all know number one is FFX, anyway.

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Nope. You're dead wrong.

There's one game I consider objectively worse than XIII. X is not. I just don't like it.

Objectivity doesn't exist in gaming.

In general, postmodernist thought says nothing is objective. And I agree.

Let me rephrase. I can see why people like X, I just dislike it. The other game I just think is way worse than XIII.

Funnily enough, all the remaining games on this bottom 5 list have music by Masashi Hamauzu :monster:

I have always hated Crisis Core. Honestly ? I have only really seen the hardcore Zack Fair fangirls love the game.

I also agree that they made Aeris worse, and made her more shy and shaken, and Zack took away alot of her character to try and make Zack a better hero.

I like XIII just fine

I have a fem-crush on Fang!

Fang is pretty hot.

She has a penis tattoo on her arm.

Click here to listen to my most controversial statement yet... :erm:

#2: FINAL FANTASY X

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...Ff10_logo.jpeg

Dear God, save me.

I apologize to ToriJ, Karifean, Pike, and probably about 90% of the FF fanbase who still consider this game to be awesome. I am sorry. I am not one of you.

I used to love this game as a kid, I really did. But then it just didn’t hold up in my view. What I used to consider a fun and strategic battle system now just seems boring, slow and repetitive, even with the Expert Sphere Grid. I used to love this story and thought it really had great depth, but the more I think about it, the worse it gets…

How can you write a story about the tragedy of death when it is made clear that the afterlife is not the end? You can visit your dead quite literally whenever you want to, and yet it’s still considered a huge loss. Even if you argue that those may just be illusions made by the pyreflies, there’s like a whole crapton of people walking around that should be dead but aren’t. There is undeniable evidence of the afterlife in this world – how is the fear of death still a thing? Say what you will, but for me, it really cheapens the impact of Sin and the destruction that it causes.

Another thing I don’t like about this game is how they go about religion. I’m really okay with religion being portrayed as corrupt and such – Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics are among my favorite games. I just feel that here the church of Yevon is painted as this purely, one-dimensionally evil entity, with people following religion only because they were stupid enough not to think about it too much. I’m all for giving us corrupt churches that use people to their own ends. But when you tell me I have to be completely ignorant of everything to even consider religion a valid option, well, things get personal.

The story is also virtually identical to Grandia II, which came out only a short time earlier, though, so I doubt this is a case of plagiarism. What Grandia II did well, though, is that it didn’t treat itself so seriously. Final Fantasy X is joyless and tries to present itself as something meaningful and deep, but none of that pretense can mask what I consider to be a really shallow story with paper-thin characters.

I’ve also recently replayed this game on the Vita, and while I can see it’s not that bad a game, I couldn’t get myself to finish it. It failed to grip my interest and the excessive grinding that needs to be done by the end really didn’t make it any easier.

The reason why this is so high on the list, despite not being nearly as bad a game as Final Fantasy XIII, is that I simply hate how much hype it gets, especially compared to other FFs I consider vastly superior but get overlooked way too often. People continue to gush about a story they consider amazing, and yet I can’t help but feel that I’ve outgrown it. Final Fantasy X was cool when I was a teen. Not it’s just… meh.

Oh, I get it. This is secretly your top 5 best Final Fantasy games list. Bold move including III, CC, and XIII. No wonder you were so concern with having XIII on here.

Keep telling yourself that ;)

I really like X! Yuna and Kimahri especially :flirt:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Keep telling yourself that ;)

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*sigh* there it is. My favorite game, not counting VNs of course.

Interestingly enough, I can't find myself agreeing with any single one of your complaints. Like I know that none of my favorites are perfect or flawless and I'm not arguing that, but the particular things you listed... don't really ring true for me at all. Without love, it really cannot be seen, huh.

So... what game in the series is worse than XIII? That I'm curious to hear.

My guess is X-2.

For the most part, I agree with all your points Fynn, but then again I was hating on this game long before and only eased up when XIII showed me it could be so much worse. Why do good developer leave their company or move to mobile while troutty ones like Motomu Toriyama get to make large budget games?

To me, FFX is just a very mediocre game with a plot taken verbatim from Japanese legend, stretched out so thin they had to add a half ass cliche evil religion subplot that did very little for the real plot. The cast also that felt like it was made by committee. The battle system would be great if the actual main story campaign made regular use of it, instead of making it shine in the 11th hour post game nonsense.

you guys are meanie bowbeanies

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

you guys are meanie bowbeanies

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I said it was better than FFXIII didn't I?

meanie
















(SPOILER)bowbeanie

Attachment 64240

I think I dropped enough hints for it to be clear what game will be number 1 ;)

I think I'm gonna play some Final Fantasy X and share it with friends. Fun game.

Dirge of Cerberus? Did Masashi do music for that game too? I'm having trouble thinking of what all he did in the FF franchise. I just keep thinking of other things like Unlimited Saga.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

I think I'm gonna play some Final Fantasy X and share it with friends. Fun game.

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I pity your friends :mymelbert:

Well it's either Dirge of Cerberus, or one of the two XIII sequels.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Well it's either Dirge of Cerberus, or one of the two XIII sequels.

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I can already tell you it's not the XIII sequels.

It's definitely Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon.

Click here for... ugh... You know the drill...

#1: DIRGE OF CERBERUS: FINAL FANTASY VII

http://i34.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:...u:/16k2hhv.png

At this point, I’m really glad the whole Compilation fiasco ended when it did. I think that really brought the potential damage down to a bare minimum. Considering the plot threads started in this game and Crisis Core, things could have gotten much, MUCH worse.

But I’m getting ahead of myself. I can’t really speak much for the gameplay of Dirge of Cerberus, since I never really play shooters. I was confused throughout the whole game, frustrated with the saving system, and it took a miracle for me to beat it, but I really don’t know if it’s just because I suck at the genre, or if it’s a bad game. That said, I don’t think it’s a wise choice to suddenly shift the genre of a sequel to a much beloved RPG. Or am I the only RPG gamer that isn’t into shooters? Who can say?

What I CAN say, however, is that the story is a barely comprehensible, garbled mess that feels nothing like Final Fantasy VII. Say what you will about the fanficky story of Crisis Core, but at least there were plenty of callbacks to FFVII in it – they even brought back the weird squatting thing Cloud used to do. In this game, none of the locales looks remotely similar to anything FF, the main story involves some weird underground army that would really not make any sense in the context of Final Fantasy VII, and lots of atrocious villains, for whom the term “fashion victim” is a gross understatement. The only things FFVII in here are the characters of Vincent, Reeve, Yuffie, Hojo and Lucrecia, but really – they could have been replaced with anyone. Some other fan favorites make a brief appearance, but ultimately, it amounts to nothing and comes off as pure fanservice. Hojo’s goal is contrived, and while I do admit it kinda suits his established character, I can’t help but wonder, when he found the time to do all this when he was busy with all the Jenova business. And dear God, what have they done to Lucrecia. I mean, She was a huge jerk even in the original game, but here, it’s amped up to eleven. Not only that, apparently she’s a complete idiot now for some reason. And the most annoying things is that the game really tries to present her as this pure, innocent love interest for Vincent, even though she deserves to die in a fire for the sheer stupidity of her decisions. She has a doctorate, for crying out loud. Prophesies are not reliable empirical data, my dear Lucy.

Presentation-wise, the game looks really nice on the PS2. Too bad there was something either about the smooth textures or the motion blur that made me feel nauseous while playing the game. The music is your typical, astonishingly beautiful Hamauzu soundtrack, but what rubs me the wrong way about it is that not a single theme from FFVII makes an appearance. And I was really looking forward to variations on “The Nightmare Begins”. It kind of adds to the feeling I mentioned earlier – the feel of this game is so detached from FFVII, that I really think this game would have been better off as a totally separate title.

To finish this off, I really wanted to talk about the aforementioned “fashion villain” aspect of this game. Dirge of Cerberus has some of the worst character designs that I have ever seen. We’ve got Nero with a jockstrap on his face (is this a fetish or something), Azul with his humongous codpiece (yeah, it seems Nomura really tried to pander to the bara fandom with this one), and then there’s Shalua. I mean, have you seen her. She looks as if Cindy Lauper just decided to start an academic career, put on a lab coat, and went and got herself mauled by bears. And there’s also Shelke, her sister, who is totally a grown up, you guys, just trapped in a pre-pubescent body, just to make extra sure the bara crowd isn’t the only group getting fanservice from this game.

You know, even writing this was exhausting. I really consider Dirge of Cerberus the worst Final Fantasy. I only touched on the story, but even though Crisis Core had a similarly stupid story, Dirge of Cerberus had the one that actually made me feel more stupid (stupider?) after playing it. I guess you could play it for the gameplay, if that’s your thing, but it’s not for me. I’m really glad nothing like this will ever happen again. Dear Square Enix – please don’t touch FFVII anymore. You’ve done quite enough.

I'm pretty sure it's less of a sequel and more of a spinoff starring Vincent Valentine, hence the genre change which fits into Vincent's character. I actually enjoyed the third-person aspects of the game and the gun customization. I can't comment much about the story since I only got as far as those annoying snipers that surround you at one point.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...gonero_Doc.png

So here's a little FYI: I need to take a break from the forum for the weekend (might come on in the evenings though), since I really need to focus on work. Because of that, my top ten list will begin on Monday, and it will have a similar break in the weekend. So stay tuned!

Aww.

Worst weekend ever. Monday come soon.

Dirge, huh. All I can say about it is it was pretty fun to play.

Well, maybe that's just the thing. I don't play shooters and I had a terrible time. Just wanted to go through the story, so imagine my disappointment after I finally beat the game, having endured a lifetime in hell, to find out it's as stupid as it looked. :(

But still, girls just wanna have fun... With science!

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ui-Artwork.jpg

Hey, girl. Wanna go out for dinner and a movie?

"I am missing an arm and have no depth perception."

So... pick you up at eight?

"But my sister punched me and now I'm in a coma."

Is she seeing anyone?

"She's physically 9."

"Also, I think the big guy with the dick armor called dibs on her."

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ul-Artwork.jpg

I never played it and I'm not really interested

DoC always looked like a train wreck to me ,and minor plot synopsis combined with Vincent getting lower on my "like" poll in VII during each playthrough, made me thankfully dodge this game.

On to the good list!

Click here to listen. And please don't hurt me.

#10: FINAL FANTASY X-2

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../FFX-2logo.jpg

You guys are going to kill me. Final Fantasy X-2 is a much maligned sequel to one of the most beloved entries in the series. It is dumb, it is campy, and it craps all over Final Fantasy X… and I love every second of it. I love this game much, much more than its predecessor in every way.

The gameplay is fast-paced and exciting, and not just in battle. The missions offer plenty of variety and Spira feels much more like an actual world in this game, with people being the annoying bastards they are and asking you to do all their dirty work. Not once was I bored in this game, which is not something I can say about X. The battle system is the most action-packed version of ATB yet, with multiple attacks being pulled off at once (another similarity to Grandia II), and jobs being changed on the fly. You heard that right – jobs are back in this game, taking the form of dresspheres. While again you can’t customize the abilities, just like in FFIII, each dressphere gets to learn a huge amount of unique skills, and you get to change them in battle, which is awesome. To top it all off, each costume change comes with a magical girl-esque transformation sequence. For a Sailor Moon fan such as myself, this was a nice nostalgic touch.

The story of Final Fantasy X-2 is pretty stupid, with shallow characters and ridiculous plot twists, but you know what else it is? Fun. Gone are the joyless words of self-proclaimed wisdom of X – FFX-2 is all about the goofy adventures of our Charlie’s Angels expies. The game lacks the frustrating delusions of grandeur X was so guilty of. It really doesn’t even try to hide the fact that it is completely stupid. While not quite as wittily self-aware as, say Final Fantasy V, it nevertheless feels like a breath of fresh air after the teen drama of X. And if a game that is stupid by its very premise can make me feel way more emotion for a couple through a three-minute long music video than a game that is supposed to be so deep and meaningful with its sublime love story can do over twenty hours of gameplay, then I’m sorry, but your sublime love story is really in dire need of better writing.

It may look like I love X-2 only because of its relationship to X – and that’s totally the case. I probably wouldn’t like this game so much if I did like the story of X, but I don’t. Instead, here I got the fun gameplay and sense of adventure I lacked in the previous entry. X-2, for me, delivered where X failed, and I really think it deserves way more credit than it gets. It’s stupid, but it’s fun and happy, so just sit back, and enjoy the ride as we tarnish everything everybody loved about Final Fantasy X.

Hey, it made it to number 8 on my top games of all time list :monster:

To me, FFX has easily the best story in the series, while FFX-2 has easily the best gameplay in the series. They complement each other pretty well. :D

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys are going to kill me. Final Fantasy X-2 is a much maligned sequel to one of the most beloved entries in the series.

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Do you... even know EoFF? At all? :p Because uh, this opinion is not maligned, nor is it uncommon 'round these parts. Do you not remember this debacle? FFX-2 is perhaps more loved on EoFF than FFX, and many agree it is deservingly so.

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Originally Posted by Shauna

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys are going to kill me. Final Fantasy X-2 is a much maligned sequel to one of the most beloved entries in the series.

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Do you... even know EoFF? At all? :p Because uh, this opinion is not maligned, nor is it uncommon 'round these parts. Do you not remember this debacle? FFX-2 is perhaps more loved on EoFF than FFX, and many agree it is deservingly so.

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It didn't use to be so, you know. When I first joined, people were reluctant to even aknowledge the existence of this game. I am well aware of the fact that their opinion has changed lately, but I know people who would hang me for putting it higher than X.

Also, number 3 poster in the last 7 days, thank you very much :colbert:

I placed it higher than X :D

It's a really fun game!

I can see that being the case when you first joined. X was a game a lot of people liked, and X-2 in a lot of ways kind of craps all over the story of X. I got the game thinking about how serious X was and also thinking about what things will be like after the fall of Yevon and whatnot. X-2 was nothing like what I wanted it to be at the time, and I'm sure I didn't like the game at first.

It is probably the most fun I've had playing an FF game though once I got over that. I so wish that the XIII games when they were wanting something fast paced just copied the gameplay almost exactly from X-2.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

It didn't use to be so, you know. When I first joined, people were reluctant to even aknowledge the existence of this game. I am well aware of the fact that their opinion has changed lately, but I know people who would hang me for putting it higher than X.

Also, number 3 poster in the last 7 days, thank you very much :colbert:

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Yes, I remember those days. People speaking up about enjoying FFX-2 were shouted down and called stupid, and the game was railed against. 2003 was a hell of a time.

However, it's now 2015. 2015 is not 2003, and comments about how people don't like FFX-2 and how you're going to get shouted down for daring to like it more than FFX just... don't fit anymore. FFX-2 very much gets credit where credit is due these days. You're not stickin' it to the FFX fans by saying you like this better. ;)

Yes, some people dislike it still, but every entry of the series gets people who rail against it, so basically it's just like the rest of the series. I just feel like it's a bit disingenuous to speak of FFX-2 in 2015 as if it is unique in this way, unless you plan on saying it about every other entry which just makes it a wee bit of a redundant comment.

I never made a point of sticking it to anyone. Just pointing out that X-2 trouts all over X and I like that aspect.

Just trying to keep the thing fun. Also, perhaps things have calmed down here, but if you go to other places on the internet that have a bit more of a casual interest in FF, you'll see a lot of people love X and hate X-2 for "ruining it".

Am I really that annoying?

So... you do like something that has X in it :smug:

Yes. I did enjoy my two-week trial of Final Fantasy XI a lot :D

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Originally Posted by Fynn

I never made a point of sticking it to anyone.

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I was making a tongue in cheek comment, hence the ;).

And I don't know why you're bringing in being annoying since I never even remotely implied such a thing? :confused: I just think you're short selling the general acceptance of FFX-2 as time has ticked on, and the credit that it has gets for being a decent game overall.

I forgot to put the smiley there. It wasn't meant to be that serious either. ;)

So anyway, fair point, and yet X-2 being disliked is one of the elements that shaped how I have come to view it. So maybe it would e been more accurate if I'd used the past tense in several places.

I usually ignore sequels when discussing FFs, I only remember that the game's plot made me cringe with every cutscene and the cool skills taking forever to pull off since they cost 5x more ATB to be used. Though Sphere Break was surprisingly good. I strongly dislike this game but I also understand I'm in the minority when it comes to that.

Funny enough, my GF loves this game and can't bring herself to finish FFX, because she finds it too serious and boring for her taste.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I usually ignore sequels when discussing FFs, I only remember that the game's plot made me cringe with every cutscene and the cool skills taking forever to pull off since they cost 5x more ATB to be used. Though Sphere Break was surprisingly good. I strongly dislike this game but I also understand I'm in the minority when it comes to that.

Funny enough, my GF loves this game and can't bring herself to finish FFX, because she finds it too serious and boring for her taste.

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Your GF sounds... sane.

His GF sounds okay, but has some character flaws. Like not finishing FFX. She needs to get that sorted, but hey we're all human.

I would describe her as "sane-ish" :shifty:

Look at ToriJ - this is what FFX does to people. Don't let her finish it if someday she does decide to. ;)

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Look at ToriJ - this is what FFX does to people. Don't let her finish it if someday she does decide to. ;)

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It makes them good writers that seldom have writer's block and never misses any deadlines?

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Look at ToriJ - this is what FFX does to people. Don't let her finish it if someday she does decide to. ;)

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It makes them good writers that seldom have writer's block and never misses any deadlines?

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It makes them think having Michelle in their avatar is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Look at ToriJ - this is what FFX does to people. Don't let her finish it if someday she does decide to. ;)

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It makes them good writers that seldom have writer's block and never misses any deadlines?

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It makes them think having Michelle in their avatar is a good idea.

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I wouldn't know anything about that. Because her name is Stephanie!

Aaaaand you fell right into it again :smug:

Actually she made me finish the game for her.

Still not sure how I am going to get back at her for it.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Aaaaand you fell right into it again :smug:

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You like Final Fantasy X too :p

It's spelled "two", Tori. As a writer, you shoild be careful with these details.

Your right.

FFX and FFX-2 are both good in their own ways.

That being said, FFX has an infinitely better soundtrack. X-2's was good but this is Final Fantasy and here "good" just doesn't cut it when it comes to the music.

I shudder at the implications that FFVIII will be on your top list now. Above FFX.

I think saying FFVIII is a good game is against the law in the more civilized parts of the world. i should make a preemptive strike and point out that if you added up the collective character deelopment of FFVIII's entire playable cast they MIGHT have about as much depth as any single FFX party member displayed at any given time. Which means Lulu and Wakka's conversation on the one ship still beats out all the "development" Selphie, Irvine or Zell got for the entire game.

Seriously, the FFVIII cast are NES level cutouts and stereotypes. Except the FF2 party didn't waste my goddam time by talking too much. FFVIII has the worst party in the entire franchise, bar none.

While FFVIII is not on the list, it has the best, most emotionally complex protagonist in the entire series.

FFX is about as deep as a teaspoon.

How could it not be on the list? I mean, how many FF games are there? Unless one of the XIII sequels or Dissidia is on the list, I don't see how FFVIII can't make the cut.

And Squall does not salvage the fact everything else about his game is awful.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

How could it not be on the list? I mean, how many FF games are there? Unless one of the XIII sequels or Dissidia is on the list, I don't see how FFVIII can't make the cut.

And Squall does not salvage the fact everything else about his game is awful.

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Meh, I don't think it's awful. I liked it a lot, just not enough to make the list.

And if anyone here has seen my top 25 games, my top four FFs are there. Two of them aren't numbered games.

Counting the spinoffs and direct sequels, there are more FF games than I care to count. I managed to make a Top Ten list of my own that didn't have all the main number entries on there. It's not that hard.

FFX is the greatest game ever made and FFVIII is one of the best games in the series. [/discussion]

You're adorable.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

it has the best, most emotionally complex protagonist in the entire series.

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Well that's one thing we agree on at least. Those inner monologues were great.

Listen to my sensual voice.

#9: FINAL FANTASY II

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...I_PSP_Logo.jpg

Here’s another game that is often considered a black sheep in the series. Final Fantasy II is awesome if only because it didn’t go the easy way and repeat the FFI formula – it employed many unique features, some of which would become series staples, but most of them didn’t make it out of this game. That really set the precedent of each subsequent FF reinventing the series.

I may be more lenient towards this game since I only discovered it when it came out on GBA, and that version fixes a lot of issues that made the original frustrating. I found the skill system very interesting with spell ranks and weapon proficiencies growing every time you use them. So this time, instead of being set to one class like in FFI (and a lot of other RPGs at the time), you get to really go deep with the character customization. I also didn’t mind the beefgates on the world map – it felt more natural for the world to be actually an open place and you being forced out of an area only because the enemies were too strong. Call me weird, but I find that much more believable than the whole world just being covered in broken bridges that the heroes conveniently fix. The keyword system was odd, but fun in that I could actually expect people to respond differently to me depending on what I said, unlike the usual one line NPCs gave.

I love the feel this story has. The world map theme, which is noticeably more somber than any other FF overworld theme, really emphasizes how bleak the situation is. The world at war is not a happy place, and you can really feel it. Towns get razed, numerous people die, and the world feels terribly empty when it finally gets taken over by a demon from hell. While the characters don’t have many lines, they’re still fairly distinct and it’s interesting to see how each of their lives has been influenced by the war.

Overall, a very good game, and pretty much the only one of its kind, looking at how little gameplay elements got carried over to the rest of the series. The only thing remotely similar after this was the SaGa series, which I need to get deeper into someday. Although it never had the best reputation, I can see more and more people being appreciative of FFII nowadays, which makes me happy. Regardless of my recent name change, the characters of Final Fantasy II (Minwu especially) will forever stay dear to my heart, despite their simplicity.

It was a good game but didn't stand out for me

Final Fantasy II is pretty great. I might have to do one of these kinds of lists someday soon. I'm finally getting around to playing Final Fantasy V Advance, and that will leave me with III as the only offline main FF game I haven't beaten.

Took me a second time and a walkthrough to appreciate it, but it easily became one of my favorites. Watching enemies run away with their tail between their legs is such a satisfying experience.

Well as long as FFVIII isn't on the list...and it is refreshing to see a fellow FF2 fan. We're a rare breed.

-Ocelot hand gesture-

FFVIII may not be on the list, but it's still a fantastic game :monster:

Listen to me!

#8: FINAL FANTASY IV

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...IVnds_logo.jpg

Of all the FFs I have ever played, I have probably replayed this one the most. And I’m never really sure why. The plot is relatively naïve and simple, I know all the twists, and yet I keep coming back to it and always enjoy it. Probably has to do with the fact that I consider it the most classic FF of all, being an embodiment of what the series standard looks like. Might also have to do with the fact that it was my first numbered game.

I love Final Fantasy IV’s gameplay not despite its relative lack of customization, but because of it. Each character has their own class that remains fixed, save for story-related changes, and the characters come and go as the story dictates, and you have nothing to say about it. That might seem restrictive nowadays, but it actually helps really flesh out the story and dynamics between characters. Also, it’s the only numbered FF so far that allows for five-member parties. Why has this not become a more permanent thing, again?
The story itself is filled with dramatic twists and turns with a lot of tropes that are considered incredibly cliché nowadays, but FFIV has the excuse of actually codifying some of them, and at times being pretty creative in going about them as well, much more than some more modern FFs (*cough*X*cough*). The gameplay elements I mentioned earlier really help the narrative in a way I never really expected was a big thing until I played other games. In any case, clichés aside, the story is simple, and yet it can still suck you in due to how well-executed it was.

But even the most classic of FFs can feel a bit… narmy at times. Which is why I consider the DS remake of this game to be the ultimate FFIV experience. Not only is my inner neat freak satisfied with all the portraits matching their 3D models, all done in a uniquely beautiful new art style, but the dialogue receives an incredible retranslation and quite a lot of voiced cutscenes, some of them brand new. All those things help elevate the story from a flat, sometimes silly one, to something that is truly epic. The PSP version released later only drove the point further home. The DS version is the way FFIV should be played – difficult and beautiful, and with much less cheese.

Final Fantasy IV remains one of the most important FFs in history. After the initial weirdness of games I through III, the series formula has finally settled in and it’s thanks to Final Fantasy IV that FF looks the way it does today. While still a bit naïve when I think about it, I keep getting surprised at how timeless this game really is whenever I play it. If you haven’t played FFIV already – by God, what the hell are you waiting for?!

FFIV is kick ass :cool:

FF IV is near the bottom of my list. It was the last FF game I played and it just felt really dated. On just about every plot point I was like... oh well, that happened. There were a few standout moments like Palom and Porom casting Break on themselves, but otherwise it just felt generic. It was hard for me to get invested in anything.

Yeah... Like I said, it was one of the first games ever to perform those, so it at least deserves respect for that ;)

I love IV!

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

I love IV!

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So do I!:love:

Have you played the 3D DS version?

Nupe, GBA and PSP

You should check it out someday. It really enhances the experience!

I don't have a 3ds, I have a 2ds!

But it's on the regular DS :p

Also, the 2DS runs all 3DS games anyway

I know but you said 3D DS so I thought you meant playing it using the 3D feature, which I do not have

Nah, it just has 3D models as opposed to 2D soprites :D

ah alrighty!

Only played the PSX version, myself, and that was all I needed. Game found itself near the top of my list in no time flat. Took me way too long to finally get to it.

You should give the DS version a shot someday.

So thoughts on Porom?

She sure has a see-through shirt in the After Years :exdee:

x)

Good discussion Fynn

Oh, you know me ;) Always constructive, never distracted by boobs or anything. Boobs. Booooo-

Anyway, I liked Porom, but I never really judged her as a character on her own. I liked that she and Palom were two halves of the same whole and how the After Years focused on both twins learning to love their own lives to a certain degree. Too bad Palom seems much more independent, but what can you expect? Those Japanese writers tend to be pretty backwards in some regards :roll2

Click here to listen.

#7: FINAL FANTASY IX

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...fantasy_ix.jpg

Along with Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IX was one of the last two numbered FFs that I hadn’t played yet (this was before XIII was out). I was really looking forward to both. But while III disappointed me, IX was pretty much everything I expected. While I certainly don’t hold it in such high regard as a whole lot of people around here, I do love it. A lot.

Though as I’ve discovered by making my wife play it, Final Fantasy IX’s main value comes from the fact that it is largely a nostalgia fest for FF fans. Which is not a bad thing – I personally loved all the throwbacks to the older FFs. I missed the four-character parties, I missed the fixed classes, I missed the fantasy setting, I missed the moogles, and holy crap, I got all those things in spades. I also got things I didn’t expect to get, like Chrono Trigger’s double techs. This game was like a dream come true in many ways!

The story is also deliciously dark underneath all the sugary surface. I’ve seen a lot of people dismiss this game for looking much more kiddy than FFVII or VIII, when it’s actually the darkest, most mature of the three. Final Fantasy IX, without spoiling too much, uses some of FFIII’s admittedly ambitious themes and delivers probably the most genuine, heart-rending story focusing on life and death until Persona 3 comes along. Heck, even the despised final boss really makes sense in the story’s message, and my frustration only grows whenever someone says that Necron made no sense. Stop. Don’t. Please. Shhh.

The saddest thing is that, while Final Fantasy IV marked the beginning of the Final Fantasy formula we all know and love, Final Fantasy IX marks the end of it. While the games that come after are not necessarily bad (one of them made it on this list, actually), the harsh truth is that Final Fantasy IX is the end of the old-school JRPG. Pretty fitting, considering its theme, if you ask me. But maybe there’s nothing to be sad about. Final Fantasy IX will always be there to remind us of what the series used to look like, no matter what direction it may go next.

I didn't like it because of series nostalgia, it was my first Final Fantasy :monster:

I just love the story and the characters are awesome and the world is awesome and the mini-games are awesome :love:

The gameplay is kind of poo though

I liked the gameplay well enough!

It has possibly the worst stat buildup system I've ever seen. Not that the game has any good superbosses to go up against with all you've got in the first place.

Regardless, FFIX is a really great game. I played it before playing any pre-VII games so I also can't say the throwbacks did anything for me, but that hardly mattered. It has a wonderful story, a wonderful soundtrack and a wonderful cast of characters. Just an allround solid game.

Necron is called Eternal Darkness in the version I played so the symbolism was a lot more obvious ;)

My problem with Necron is that he does feel out of nowhere and just isn't done well. He makes sense once you think about it I guess, but that part just isn't done well in at least the English translation.

Necron was actually meant to be a callback to villains like Cloud of Darkness and Zermous who did just randomly appear after beating who you thought was the bad guy all that time.

One of the games I had to play again after playing through the classics to truly appreciate. It's number six on my list.

Here's the last entry for this week ;)

Here's my voice.

#6: FINAL FANTASY VII

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...e2/FF7logo.jpg

I’m prepared to lose my audience again, I don’t care. Final Fantasy VII is very dear to me. Yes, it’s incredibly overhyped, it began some weird trends in RPGs, and attracted a whole lot of people we didn’t necessarily need in our fandom. And yes, Wolf, Xenogears and Vagrant Story did the unreliable narrator thing much better, I agree, and they’re both much better games, yes. But to me, FFVII is nothing short of awesome!

Though it wasn’t always like this. I remember it was the winter break around the time I was in fourth or fifth grade. My friend (whom I still keep in touch with) borrowed an old PSX from another classmate. When the break started, he came to visit me and brought the PS with him. Of course, one of the games he brought was FFVII. Having played all the SNES FFs, I was really eager to check out what this new 3D FF was like. What I saw didn’t impress me. In fact, I was turned off. The game looked ugly, was way too sci-fi for my tastes at the time, and you could only control three party members! Nevertheless, the image stayed in my head, and what initially looked terrible to me became this unattainable dream over time. Years later, I finally got the game on my PC. The graphics looked better, but the music was crappy MIDI quality. That said, I was still sucked in. I loved how creepy some elements were, like the night at the Shinra building, and I really appreciated how layered the story was. Too bad it seemed a bit rushed at the end, but I didn’t really mind at the time. And the steampunk setting really grew on me! Sadly, Aerith’s death had been spoiled to me many years before :/

I liked the materia system and loved customizing my characters into old-school-FF-style jobs. Limit breaks were a fun new addition, and the amount of things you could do in the Wonder Square was staggering. I’ve really put way too many hours into this game.

This was also the first FF my wife played, and it’s what got her into JRPGs (she exclusively played Western games before). Besides her, a couple of my friends played it as well, so it was actually this short period when we could all talk about an FF. Being able to share all my fandom theories and stuff with people I actually knew in real life was an incredible experience, and it’s probably one of the reasons why this game is this high on the list. I joined Eyes on FF soon after, so even though FFVII wasn’t my first, it’s definitely the game that made me an FF fan for life. I’m really glad Final Fantasy VII happened.

I like the materia system!

Final Fantasy VII will always have a special place in my heart. Both as the game that got me into the series in the first place, and as the game that is the most endlessly fun to mod and play around with. Story-wise it has a lovable cast all with good backstories, and the main plot is quite enthralling too. The materia system is pretty nifty and cool even if it could use a little refining.

Even if things VII did have been done better elsewhere, VII still did them pretty well.

This game was voted as number one in the rank thing so I doubt you'd lose your audience over including it.

You may get beat up by putting it so low on the list, though.

Final Fantasy VII is one of the best FF games ever made and that's all I have to say about that :grover:

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

This game was voted as number one in the rank thing so I doubt you'd lose your audience over including it.

You may get beat up by putting it so low on the list, though.

Final Fantasy VII is one of the best FF games ever made and that's all I have to say about that :grover:

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That's what I meant - some would complain it's even up here, others that it's too low :monster:

I respect your opinion but :

FF X on worst list ( deep rich plot, soft and emotional ost, nice cast of characters )

FF X-2 on best list ( charlies angels, bad fanservice, cheesy, ruins Yuna's character )


?????????

My mind is boggled.

I'm sorry, but I don't think X is deep at all, as I've gone on record saying. It's emotional aspect is really superficial and the older I am, the more I see Toriyama for the hack he is.

X-2 is stupid, but fun, while X tries to disguise its stupidity with quasi-philosophical ramblings and is not fun in the least for me.

Oh, you're gonna hate me for what's even higher, maybs ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

I'm sorry, but I don't think X is deep at all, as I've gone on record saying. It's emotional aspect is really superficial and the older I am, the more I see Toriyama for the hack he is.

X-2 is stupid, but fun, while X tries to disguise its stupidity with quasi-philosophical ramblings and is not fun in the least for me.

Oh, you're gonna hate me for what's even higher, maybs ;)

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Fair enough ! :jess:


Oh noes :ohdear:

-sharpens axe-

FFX is a much better game than X-2 but I do feel that X-2 Yuna is better than X Yuna.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Oh, you're gonna hate me for what's even higher, maybs ;)

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Oh now, I doubt anyone is left on the forum who has played that game, and lord knows Pike and Skyblade will just heap praise on you for ranking it so high. :wcanoe:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Oh, you're gonna hate me for what's even higher, maybs ;)

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Oh now, I doubt anyone is left on the forum who has played that game, and lord knows Pike and Skyblade will just heap praise on you for ranking it so high. :wcanoe:

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No, I meant the other one. Maybee hates it ;)

X-2 is my least favourite ff game lol i dont know why i just dont really like it that much

Attachment 64734

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Attachment 64734

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Goodnight, sweet prince. May a flock of wolves lay thee to thy rest.

Hard drive died. So has the list. Sorry.

This is the worst tragedy to befall our community since...

The last tragedy to befall our community!

I'm more concerned about my thesis being possibly lost. But yeah, a tragedy, I guess :monster:

Attachment 64735

DON'T WORRY I WILL FINISH IT FOR HIM!

Number 2 - Final Fantasy VIII
This one has sorceresses and mentally ill teenagers and ugly yellow people who turn in to cute red spiky people and there's an awkward space scene and a gunblade pew pew and amnesia and some really cool areas and the cutest FF couple ever

Number 1 - Final Fantasy IX
Vivi.

Ah yes, a worthy successor. Thanks, Pumpkins!

no prob

Both great games!

And here I thought your top titles would be Mystic Quest, All the Bravest and FFVII- G-Bike.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

And here I thought your top titles would be Mystic Quest, All the Bravest and FFVII- G-Bike.

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All the Bravest is truly Square's best. A masterpiece, one for the ages.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AJjsg_8Gj1...sgetterrg3.png

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

DON'T WORRY I WILL FINISH IT FOR HIM!

Number 2 - Final Fantasy VIII
This one has sorceresses and mentally ill teenagers and ugly yellow people who turn in to cute red spiky people and there's an awkward space scene and a gunblade pew pew and amnesia and some really cool areas and the cutest FF couple ever

Number 1 - Final Fantasy IX
Vivi.

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Best article ever written. There were words, and I could read them. %/10 ~IGN