How effective are Monks

I seriously wonder how they defeat enemies with just their hands and feet? Are they like causing a lot of internal bleeding from blows they're exchanging with ever they're fighting? I mean internal bleeding can definitely mess someone up. But I just wonder. What do you think?

Probably more effective than Bards killing things with the power of music or Dancers killing things with the power of, well, dance.

The power of interpretive dance though!

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I should've said how do they exactly kill their opponent? I know the answer to that is with their entire body but I mean like how do the blows kill them? I know I said internal bleeding was probably a factor, but i'm sure there's others that comes around with blunt trauma injuries. I would've thought since most of the enemies saw it coming they'd have time to prepare for it.

Strikes to the throat, temples and back of the head are pretty lethal, especially if you do it over and over again. There's a reason why the most damaging strikes are banned in all combat sports.

Also keep in mind that defeating an enemy doesn't require you to kill them right then an there. Breaking someone's spine is going to prevent them from doing much of anything. Enough pain can make an enemy unable to continue too, and then you're free to finish them off in any way you desire. Most monsters still breathe air, so you could just strangle them, or cut off blood supply to the brain.

You can't prepare for every strike. There is no muscle you can flex to avoid getting knocked out, for example. Repeated strikes to muscle tissue make the muscles cramp up, reducing mobility and therefore also ability to avoid attacks.

If they can punch machines hard enough to destroy them I think that killing a living organism through blunt force trauma shouldn't be a problem.

They can suplex trains.

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Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy

They can suplex trains.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Strikes to the throat, temples and back of the head are pretty lethal, especially if you do it over and over again. There's a reason why the most damaging strikes are banned in all combat sports.

Also keep in mind that defeating an enemy doesn't require you to kill them right then an there. Breaking someone's spine is going to prevent them from doing much of anything. Enough pain can make an enemy unable to continue too, and then you're free to finish them off in any way you desire. Most monsters still breathe air, so you could just strangle them, or cut off blood supply to the brain.

You can't prepare for every strike. There is no muscle you can flex to avoid getting knocked out, for example. Repeated strikes to muscle tissue make the muscles cramp up, reducing mobility and therefore also ability to avoid attacks.

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So what does Sabin or Tifa do to the enemy who's paralyzed? What they just strangle them or they just punch them so hard that their skull fragments and pierces their brain and they die? Sounds like a bad way for Kefka or Sephiroth to go out.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

I should've said how do they exactly kill their opponent? I know the answer to that is with their entire body but I mean like how do the blows kill them?

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Obviously they use the five-point palm exploding heart technique.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Strikes to the throat, temples and back of the head are pretty lethal, especially if you do it over and over again. There's a reason why the most damaging strikes are banned in all combat sports.

Also keep in mind that defeating an enemy doesn't require you to kill them right then an there. Breaking someone's spine is going to prevent them from doing much of anything. Enough pain can make an enemy unable to continue too, and then you're free to finish them off in any way you desire. Most monsters still breathe air, so you could just strangle them, or cut off blood supply to the brain.

You can't prepare for every strike. There is no muscle you can flex to avoid getting knocked out, for example. Repeated strikes to muscle tissue make the muscles cramp up, reducing mobility and therefore also ability to avoid attacks.

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So what does Sabin or Tifa do to the enemy who's paralyzed? What they just strangle them or they just punch them so hard that their skull fragments and pierces their brain and they die? Sounds like a bad way for Kefka or Sephiroth to go out.

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Well, sabin and tifa don't rely on blunt damage. Have you seen the things they have on their gloves?

Monk vs. Organic: Obvious enough. Break bones, damage internal organs, etc.
Monk vs. Mechanical: Ever punched or kicked a TV? If you do it enough, you can probably do some good damage to a car, too.

And keep in mind they don't just do it a few times, most FF monks have to do it repeatedly before an enemy dies. Imagine if a professional boxer punched something about 50 times (many Monks attack multiple times per Attack command) in full attack mode and I imagine they could do serious damage to all kinds of things.

I don't think a monk defeating a tank is much more absurd than a guy with a sword defeating a tank, let alone a guy with a gun defeating a tank. At some point you have to just appreciate that these characters you are playing as are genuinely hyper-powered.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Monk vs. Mechanical: Ever punched or kicked a TV? If you do it enough, you can probably do some good damage to a car, too.

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I dread to think how many trips to the A & E consisted of people punching and/or kicking various appliances.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Monk vs. Organic: Obvious enough. Break bones, damage internal organs, etc.
Monk vs. Mechanical: Ever punched or kicked a TV? If you do it enough, you can probably do some good damage to a car, too.

And keep in mind they don't just do it a few times, most FF monks have to do it repeatedly before an enemy dies. Imagine if a professional boxer punched something about 50 times (many Monks attack multiple times per Attack command) in full attack mode and I imagine they could do serious damage to all kinds of things.

I don't think a monk defeating a tank is much more absurd than a guy with a sword defeating a tank, let alone a guy with a gun defeating a tank. At some point you have to just appreciate that these characters you are playing as are genuinely hyper-powered.

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Yeah but I think this ties in with what Mirage said about the enemy just being paralyzed and if the way they kill them is a simple snap of the neck or them getting strangled, it could also be that they're just defeated. At the point where they're neutralized and can't fight anymore. I wonder what Fei Fong Wong does to the Hobgobs and Jackals that fight him? I wonder if he'd just beat them to death or beat them so bad that they weren't a threat anymore.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Monk vs. Organic: Obvious enough. Break bones, damage internal organs, etc.
Monk vs. Mechanical: Ever punched or kicked a TV? If you do it enough, you can probably do some good damage to a car, too.

And keep in mind they don't just do it a few times, most FF monks have to do it repeatedly before an enemy dies. Imagine if a professional boxer punched something about 50 times (many Monks attack multiple times per Attack command) in full attack mode and I imagine they could do serious damage to all kinds of things.

I don't think a monk defeating a tank is much more absurd than a guy with a sword defeating a tank, let alone a guy with a gun defeating a tank. At some point you have to just appreciate that these characters you are playing as are genuinely hyper-powered.

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Punching a home electronic device is a bit different than punching a combat machine. It's not more absurd than doing it with a sword, but both are definitely very absurd. It'd be better if lots of machinery was just really resistant to blunt and slashing damage and only really took damage from explosives, piercing and magic instead. Then again, final fantasy never really cared much about physical damage types.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Monk vs. Organic: Obvious enough. Break bones, damage internal organs, etc.
Monk vs. Mechanical: Ever punched or kicked a TV? If you do it enough, you can probably do some good damage to a car, too.

And keep in mind they don't just do it a few times, most FF monks have to do it repeatedly before an enemy dies. Imagine if a professional boxer punched something about 50 times (many Monks attack multiple times per Attack command) in full attack mode and I imagine they could do serious damage to all kinds of things.

I don't think a monk defeating a tank is much more absurd than a guy with a sword defeating a tank, let alone a guy with a gun defeating a tank. At some point you have to just appreciate that these characters you are playing as are genuinely hyper-powered.

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Punching a home electronic device is a bit different than punching a combat machine. It's not more absurd than doing it with a sword, but both are definitely very absurd. It'd be better if lots of machinery was just really resistant to blunt and slashing damage and only really took damage from explosives, piercing and magic instead. Then again, final fantasy never really cared much about physical damage types.

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Actually depending on the sword or spear it can do penetrating damage to the machine. Also depending on the energy put into that melee weapon. I've been told that penetrating trauma is far worse than blunt trauma so I think the combat robot has a better chance at surviving the monks punches than someone's Venus Gospel or Ragnarok lol.

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Never forget about guns. They can do the most penetrating damage. Especially if they're mid caliber weapons that are of armor piercing nature and have steel cores like the 7.62x54 usually used in the Mosin Nagant. And then you HMG calibers like the .50 cal, 14mm, and 20mm. But after that it'd be an anti tank rifle or a freaking cannon.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Never forget about guns. They can do the most penetrating damage. Especially if they're mid caliber weapons that are of armor piercing nature and have steel cores like the 7.62x54 usually used in the Mosin Nagant. And then you HMG calibers like the .50 cal, 14mm, and 20mm. But after that it'd be an anti tank rifle or a freaking cannon.

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I really don't want there to be a 'Call of Final Fantasy' crossover game. I'm happy with a simplified combat system!

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Originally Posted by Formalhaut

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Never forget about guns. They can do the most penetrating damage. Especially if they're mid caliber weapons that are of armor piercing nature and have steel cores like the 7.62x54 usually used in the Mosin Nagant. And then you HMG calibers like the .50 cal, 14mm, and 20mm. But after that it'd be an anti tank rifle or a freaking cannon.

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I really don't want there to be a 'Call of Final Fantasy' crossover game. I'm happy with a simplified combat system!

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Yeah I know. But Barrett has a gun, so does Vincent, King, Machinist, and Yuna in Gunner dress.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Never forget about guns. They can do the most penetrating damage. Especially if they're mid caliber weapons that are of armor piercing nature and have steel cores like the 7.62x54 usually used in the Mosin Nagant. And then you HMG calibers like the .50 cal, 14mm, and 20mm. But after that it'd be an anti tank rifle or a freaking cannon.

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I didn't, I was just tired of typing on my cell phone so i cut my post short :p.

FF12 does guns well. They have lower damage than other weapons, but always ignore defence. Most of the time, their damage will be close to other weapons, but the higher defence the target has, the higher their relative power.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Never forget about guns. They can do the most penetrating damage. Especially if they're mid caliber weapons that are of armor piercing nature and have steel cores like the 7.62x54 usually used in the Mosin Nagant. And then you HMG calibers like the .50 cal, 14mm, and 20mm. But after that it'd be an anti tank rifle or a freaking cannon.

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I didn't, I was just tired of typing on my cell phone so i cut my post short :p.

FF12 does guns well. They have lower damage than other weapons, but always ignore defence. Most of the time, their damage will be close to other weapons, but the higher defence the target has, the higher their relative power.

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I see. But from knowledge I think a gun would do a lot more damage than a sword, maybe even .22LR could f someone's day up. Even though I think in reality a Longsword or a Shortsword would mess you up worse than a .22LR. But I see your point there. So if you had a party of 3, would you take the Knight or the Monk? I do know monks are tanks, but they low defense but they make up for that in Highest HP.

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by Lazerface

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Depends on how you wield the weapon, but this all depends on a lot of stuff that almost no FF takes into account. Persona uses physical damage types, and so does ff11. It also depends on weapon weight of course. Heavy piercing weapons should have armor piercing capabilities, while something like a dagger probably shouldn't.

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Never forget about guns. They can do the most penetrating damage. Especially if they're mid caliber weapons that are of armor piercing nature and have steel cores like the 7.62x54 usually used in the Mosin Nagant. And then you HMG calibers like the .50 cal, 14mm, and 20mm. But after that it'd be an anti tank rifle or a freaking cannon.

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I didn't, I was just tired of typing on my cell phone so i cut my post short :p.

FF12 does guns well. They have lower damage than other weapons, but always ignore defence. Most of the time, their damage will be close to other weapons, but the higher defence the target has, the higher their relative power.

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I see. But from knowledge I think a gun would do a lot more damage than a sword, maybe even .22LR could f someone's day up. Even though I think in reality a Longsword or a Shortsword would mess you up worse than a .22LR. But I see your point there. So if you had a party of 3, would you take the Knight or the Monk? I do know monks are tanks, but they low defense but they make up for that in Highest HP.

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Or better yet I'd ask how about other physical classes like Dragoon, Knight, or Gunner vs the Monk in terms of raw power and damage they can deal and take?

This is why I think a Slash/Pierce/Bash system in RPG's not only adds a new element to gameplay but makes sense in the context of the universe.

That being said, I could imagine getting pretty smurfed up in a fight against a professional boxer, a wrestler, or martial artist.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

This is why I think a Slash/Pierce/Bash system in RPG's not only adds a new element to gameplay but makes sense in the context of the universe.

That being said, I could imagine getting pretty smurfed up in a fight against a professional boxer, a wrestler, or martial artist.

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And even MORE if all three of those have guns!!!

All the monks were trained by Bruce Lee.

Is Tifa considered a monk? She sure is effective in getting attention. :bigsmile: