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The 4th of July is coming up in a few weeks. For those of you who aren't from the US, that's the day that hillbillies take a break from hating the government to show their love for the country that the government controls.
Whether you're from the US or not, do you love your country? How much? Is there a such thing as too much jingoism?
Yah, I love my country. That doesn't mean I don't criticize it or shouldn't. I am patriotic in the sense that I love where I live and what it represents for me, but nothing is perfect.
This. I love England, but that love of your country should never blind you to its many failings and annoyances. And ultimately, being 'English' doesn't really form an essential part of my identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
I'm from the greatest, smartest, funniest and most awesome nation in the history of the smurfing world. You're too bloody right I am.
I'm cosmopolitan, so patriotism isn't in my vocabulary. XD
I always had an unpleasant experience with Polish Patriots... These extremist make me leave the country ASAP. XD
Shine your shoes guv'nah?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I was ashamed of America for a long time. I still kindof am, in some respects. But we're doing okay lately.
I'm not proud to be American, but I'll defend it if people slag Americans off for no other reason than them being American. You don't get to do that, that's our job :colbert:
Me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I want my state to be it's own country again. US is going down the tubes.
Uh... Tell me about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZanmato
Most Poles are almost on the same level of flag-waving as the 'Murricans (note: not the same as Americans, if you know what I mean) that we get shown on TV.
It's fun rooting for Austrians during Winter Olympics, but that's about it.
Canada's alright :monster:
Honestly living in the US has made me more patriotic towards Canada. No offense to the US but I sure do miss me my socialized healthcare and liveable minimum wage
Not at all.
I'm still going to get really upset if some people try to take over the country and replace our government with something that is more troutty, however. But I don't have any strong feelings towards Norway, just democratic values and trout.
God bless America and everywhere else. Happy 4th of July weekend.
Shoot sounds the same way for the South. A lot of people are taking down Rebel flags and people are getting pissed. If anything we might break off and Carolina would be its own country again and so would most of the South.Quote:
Originally Posted by escobert
Eeh, not really.
What? No. It's the day we make loud obnoxious noises and keep people up at night. Honestly don't know why we needed a national holiday for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Angus
The fact people are so butt hurt about a flag when they aren't calling for the US flag to be taken down is nonsense. How many natives were killed under the star spangled banner? The US supported slavery for a hundred years be for the confederate flag even existed. More death and hate have happened under the American flag than ever for with the confederate.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazerfaceShoot sounds the same way for the South. A lot of people are taking down Rebel flags and people are getting pissed. If anything we might break off and Carolina would be its own country again and so would most of the South.Quote:
Originally Posted by escobert
Uhmmm... I guess I kind of am by default. I come from a military family and my boyfriend was in the Army for 8 years. He's a reservist now.
America gets a bad rap in general, though, and it's totally our own fault. And it sucks. I hate that whole "Just one or a few can ruin it for all" whatever thing.
The difference is that when the nation realized their wrongs and tried to correct them, they were met with "smurf YOU DON'T TAKE OUR SLAVES".Quote:
Originally Posted by escobert
This is true for America, and it's also true for many other first-world countries such as England, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and so on. Once upon a time the world was made for conquerors; that is simply a historical fact.Quote:
More death and hate have happened under the American flag than ever for with the confederate.
Native Americans have had a poor time of it with the British, the Spanish, and the Mexicans, not just white people under the American flag. That doesn't excuse the mass genocide and land-stealing, but America has tried in small ways to make amends for where we smurfed up bad hundreds of years ago. Obviously we have realized the wrongs of it because we aren't genociding them all currently still.
And of course, the point in all of this is that currently, we don't advocate slavery, genocide, hatred or killing under the American flag. It's supposed to be the symbol of unity and progression of our nation and the freedoms in which we are able to appreciate that many others do not. The confederate flag is literally just "we used to own slaves and we still wish we had slaves and as contemporary racists we're still sore about it." There is no value whatsoever to the confederate flag other than some old world southerners clinging to it as a symbol of their slave plantations and wishing they could run it on free labor and exercise themselves as a "superior species." It is not a symbol of anything other than prejudice, and it isn't comparable to the nation's flag in the slightest.
You do know the Civil war was not primarily fought over slavery? It was because the south had almost no say it the way things were going and were being raped by the north. Blacks fought willing and unwillingly on both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortyThe difference is that when the nation realized their wrongs and tried to correct them, they were met with "smurf YOU DON'T TAKE OUR SLAVES".Quote:
Originally Posted by escobert
This is true for America, and it's also true for many other first-world countries such as England, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and so on. Once upon a time the world was made for conquerors; that is simply a historical fact.Quote:
More death and hate have happened under the American flag than ever for with the confederate.
Native Americans have had a poor time of it with the British, the Spanish, and the Mexicans, not just white people under the American flag. That doesn't excuse the mass genocide and land-stealing, but America has tried in small ways to make amends for where we smurfed up bad hundreds of years ago. Obviously we have realized the wrongs of it because we aren't genociding them all currently still.
And of course, the point in all of this is that currently, we don't advocate slavery, genocide, hatred or killing under the American flag. It's supposed to be the symbol of unity and progression of our nation and the freedoms in which we are able to appreciate that many others do not. The confederate flag is literally just "we used to own slaves and we still wish we had slaves and as contemporary racists we're still sore about it." There is no value whatsoever to the confederate flag other than some old world southerners clinging to it as a symbol of their slave plantations and wishing they could run it on free labor and exercise themselves as a "superior species." It is not a symbol of anything other than prejudice, and it isn't comparable to the nation's flag in the slightest.
And we don't advocate killing genocide and hatred now? So we torture and bomb other countries for only the absolute most worthy causes? I don't think so...
The Civil War was flat out fought to abolish slavery. The slave states who tried to secede into the Confederacy did it with reasons plainly associated with their slave operations. If they were "getting raped by the North", it was because they wanted to keep perpetuating the unwholesome trout in the south and the North slammed them down for it.
Additionally, I don't think arguing for the Confederacy is a particularly good position to be in.
As for the war business, I thought that example might come up, and all I can say is that no, I don't think we are a nation who propagates war and hatred and genocide, but that we have been at the mercy of some particularly poor leaders who have chosen such courses of action. :)
absolutely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
and how am I arguing for the confederacy? I'm stating simple history.
Im more patriotic when the people in charge arent being assholes. Right now they are. I guess Im what you call a fair weather fan.
My school always had a tribute to the victims of The Katyn Massacre. I just told them that I'm not interested in that and these people almost wanted to bury me alive. XDQuote:
Originally Posted by FynnUh... Tell me about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZanmato
Most Poles are almost on the same level of flag-waving as the 'Murricans (note: not the same as Americans, if you know what I mean) that we get shown on TV.
There were more incidents like that, but I don't want to waste my time and yours. :P
But you love it when I say all American's wear plaid, baseball caps, and eat junk food! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
Anyway, I love England and being English. I love English food, that we hate looking people in the eye in public, that we apologise for everything, that we have sayings like tally ho. THAT WE DRINK OUR GODDAMN TEA, and that we're just awesome - probably more now that I live abroad. But my God we have some smurfing imbecile English people around. Although, it's kind of nice because you can make fun of them and stuff.
Yeah... The Katyń thing was pretty sad, but it's in the past and there's no reason to blow it up like it's 9/11 or something. The way our politicians try to push forward conspiracy theories as fact is just nauseating.
I love Poland and I love that we do not have a history with imperialism that we have to repent for, but I'm also pretty exasperated by the blatant racism, sexism, and homophobia that is perfectly acceptable in this country. Heck, every movie about the holocaust that does not show Poles as perfect saints who didn't abuse Jews themselves is labelled "anti-Polish", whatever that means. Covert anti-semitism is really strong here.
But while a lot of the people suck, at least the place is beautiful :monster: I especially adore Suvalkija, my home region.
http://v001839.home.net.pl/scubahanc...a/jezioro3.jpg
Your opinion is sincere and well justified - I like it! :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
I'm just neutral and I'm not into patriotism, that's it.
I hate when people treat cosmopolitans as anarchists - this is an obvious manifestation of ignorance on their part.
As for this photo - this is a beautiful place, indeed! <3
Living on the other side of the world has made me feel a lot more attached to England.
I'm still not blindly patriotic: I KNOW there are things that need to be improved.
But, being away for four months has made me realise that there are a lot of things I love about my country.
The Stars and Bars represent an amazing opportunity. I'm very patriotic to the ideals that have formed that opportunity.
However, it's certainly not the only country to afford those opportunities, and there are many more countries that have done a far better job of doing so. Currently the words "freedom, liberty, opportunity, and sovereignty" get thrown around by individuals with all the power and money to make sure they can continue to have all the power and the money. So many everyday individuals have been brainwashed by the crap they're fed on the TV and talk radio that they truly believe the economic and social issues they face (working too many hours, not having enough money to care for their kids, not being able to save for retirement) are the cause of minority special interest groups, or those opposed to their views. Those in power have also done an amazing job of tying their values to Christian values (when they are almost completely unChristian), convincing their constituents that their values are American values because they're Christian values (the two were never joined at the hip, that's one of the major points of this nation), and that anyone opposed to their views isn't a true patriot.
tl;dr
The idea of what this country should and could be is great. What a certain group of very powerful and very rich assholes has convinced a large section of the population those values are has set us back at least 50 years and have ruined a lot of lives.
I think you mean stars & stripes. Stars & bars refers to that other flag. :erm:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg
Other flag? Forgive me for my ignorance on this matter, I'm not American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel AngusI think you mean stars & stripes. Stars & bars refers to that other flag. :erm:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg
The Confederate Flag, which has been all over our news/comedy shows, has been referred to by that name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. CarnelianOther flag? Forgive me for my ignorance on this matter, I'm not American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel AngusI think you mean stars & stripes. Stars & bars refers to that other flag. :erm:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg
Oh, right, of course!
I was aware of the current furore over the Confederate Flag, just not that it is known as 'The Stars and Bars'.
Yup, sorry. My brain crossed some wires.
I am considerably more patriotic on a local level than I am on a national one. I am DAMN proud of being a Montanan and especially proud of being a Bozemanite. Being an American is okay, I guess. It was pretty good yesterday. :)
Wales has a lot of nationalists of the wrong kind. It's fairly turned me off the whole patriotism thing. I like the history and culture.
The Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was simply state rights and taxation. The South was being ignored by the North for a long time on a lot of issues and the South got ignored for the last time and the Civil War happened. Yes, slavery was a part of it but it wasn't the main reason why it was fought. Check your history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
No, the secession was based tariffs and taxes, in addition preserving slavery, states’ rights (exercising slavery), and political liberty for whites. Then the Civil War came, which was based on the south wanting to continue operating in ways that were no longer conducive to the nation, with many of their ways were directly centralized by the slave operations and labor that they relied on as a confederacy. Check your own history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazerfaceThe Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was simply state rights and taxation. The South was being ignored by the North for a long time on a lot of issues and the South got ignored for the last time and the Civil War happened. Yes, slavery was a part of it but it wasn't the main reason why it was fought. Check your history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
And that's why it's state rights. It wasn't fought over pure slavery. It may have been to exercise the right of using them but it was not slavery. The South didn't have much of a voice in politics in the Union. Every other president before Lincoln didn't condemn slavery and immediately order the South to get rid of them. They talked about it and at least gave the South that right to voice their opinion on political matters instead of ordering them to get rid of it. Lincoln and the Republican party condemned it so they knew once he got into office they weren't going to get a say in the matter of slavery, taxation, industrialization, or other politics. Slavery was a part of the reason it was fought but it wasn't the reason why it was fought. It was fought over state rights and representation. I still say check your history books. Taxes may have been on reason for succession. But loss of representation is the big one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortyNo, the secession was based tariffs and taxes, in addition preserving slavery, states’ rights (exercising slavery), and political liberty for whites. Then the Civil War came, which was based on the south wanting to continue operating in ways that were no longer conducive to the nation, with many of their ways were directly centralized by the slave operations and labor that they relied on as a confederacy. Check your own history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazerfaceThe Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was simply state rights and taxation. The South was being ignored by the North for a long time on a lot of issues and the South got ignored for the last time and the Civil War happened. Yes, slavery was a part of it but it wasn't the main reason why it was fought. Check your history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty
Honestly read this as, "Are you Psychotic?"
Oh God, I'm not the only one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star
uh no I think I'd know if I was you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JinxyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star
I can tell words from other words. Even when they start with the same letter.
I kinda saw it as psychotic too at first.
i'd know too tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Psychoticuh no I think I'd know if I was you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JinxyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star
sameQuote:
Originally Posted by Denmarki'd know too tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Psychoticuh no I think I'd know if I was you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JinxyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Paper Star
psychotic and patriotic is pretty much the same anyway
Nah, Scotland is a cold wet trouty rainy country, nobody wants to come here unless they really need to.
It's starting to look like a South Park episode over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel AngusThe Confederate Flag, which has been all over our news/comedy shows, has been referred to by that name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. CarnelianOther flag? Forgive me for my ignorance on this matter, I'm not American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel AngusI think you mean stars & stripes. Stars & bars refers to that other flag. :erm:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg
The stars and bars just sounds like an intergalactic pub crawl...
Only during the World Cup like every other American. ;)
USA! USA!
I'm one of very few scottish people who don't actively hope for England to fail in sporting events... Probably because I'm a quarter english myself...
You're GOD DAMN RIGHT!
MERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!
You don't even GO here hux.
http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0...ihkuo1_500.gif
I'll go there soon enough. Soon enough.
Too bad the men suck. At least the woman are good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny