Azor Ahai (SEASON FIVE FINALE SPOILERS)

I'd like to open up discussion on what possible reasons Jon's character serves better dead than alive. Is he being used as a plot device? For whom? What possible purpose could his death hold for the series?

The more I think about it, I think he really and truly is Azor Ahai. Stannis was never reborn admist smoke and salt. Danaerys was only metaphorically "reborn". Jon Snow has the potential to actually be reborn. Beric Dondarrion is a testament to the Red God's power, and Melisandre is surely a more potent instrument of the god than Thoros of Myr.

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According to the prophecy recounted by Melisandre, after a long summer, Azor Ahai will be reborn amidst smoke and salt wielding the flaming sword Lightbringer to defend the world from R'hllor's nemesis, the Other.

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It seems dead on to be him. Furthermore, this could come into play with a twist of words in saying, "Jon Snow is dead" - but if he is reborn, he would instead be Azor Ahai! So he very well could be dead and resurrected as another being.

Thoughts? Who else could it possibly be? What purpose could Jon's death serve? He wasn't a no-name character whose story was going nowhere. He hasn't served his purpose in the series. What sense does it make for him to commit to the Night's Watch, serve as leader, unite the wildlings and men of the Watch and then... die? It makes no sense. None at all. Because at this time, with Stannis and Jon both being dead, we have no main POV at Castle Black.

Speculate with me!

When was this Azor Ahai guy mentioned? I don't remember it at all.

I think he's Azor Ahai. I never understood why Mel thought Stannis was.

Ygritte could definitely be Nissa Nissa. He sacrificed love for duty instead.

Dunno what's salty about him, though.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

When was this Azor Ahai guy mentioned? I don't remember it at all.

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Azor Ahai is (or was) often mentioned by Melisandre and was a legendary hero who is said to be reborn again as a champion sent by R'hllor. Melisandre touts that Stannis is this person embodied, but there have been visible doubts about whether or not this is true.

Since she abandoned Stannis as he went to war, I think we can speculate that she is not resurrecting him.

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Originally Posted by Jinx

I think he's Azor Ahai. I never understood why Mel thought Stannis was.

Ygritte could definitely be Nissa Nissa. He sacrificed love for duty instead.

Dunno what's salty about him, though.

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Here's what it says about Jon in the wiki theories:

• Jon's wounds smoke while Bowen Marsh cries, providing the prophecised salt, and Ser Patrek's bloody, star laden heraldry is in the air above
• When Melisandre looks into her fires for Azor Ahai, she sees only things to do with Jon or snow, which he thinks must just be ash but she sees a possible connection to Jon.
• Jon Snow has a dream where he fights the Others with a red sword burning in his hand.
• book spoilers and theories on Jon's descendanceIf having the Blood of the Dragon is a prerequisite, if Jon's father is truly Rhaegar, Jon would satisfy that prerequisite. He would be the grandson of Aerys and Rhaella and thus come from their line.
• Jon chose his duty to the Night's Watch over his love for Ygritte. He indirectly caused her death by warning Castle Black of the incoming wildling raid. Similar to Azor Ahai sacrificing Nissa Nissa to complete Lightbringer.

Victarion Greyjoy.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Victarion Greyjoy.

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Possibly a contender if they do in fact include him in the show! God help us if this is the truth.

Can someone explain why it'd be Victarion? I haven't gotten that far in the book series.

This link shows a good solid number of reasons linking to several candidates. I'm sure there are more floating around as well. Spoilers all around, etc.

Thanks! :)

Maybe Jon Snow is something the world has never seen, something other than Azor Azai

I like the theory that Rhaegar actually WAS Azor Ahai and everyone is smurfed.

Jorah. Jorah is forced to slay a dragon and Dany, thus carrying "the blood of the dragon".

I had always thought that Dany was Azor Ahai.

As a Targaryen, she has the "blood of the dragon", she was (metaphorically) reborn in flame, and the "flaming sword" could be a metaphor for Drogon, her strongest dragon.

I could be wrong though. Might well turn out to be Jon.

I think they're going to resurrect him whether he is or not, though. I don't see why thy would have made a particular point of Melisandre turning up shortly before he was killed otherwise. My thought is that she now thinks that he is Azor Ahai.

She was wrong about Stannis though, so I'd say it's still anyone's game.

I like the idea of either Jon or Dany being Azor. Jon most of all. I don't know why, I just do.

Jon and Dany are too obvious. We know what Martin thinks on prophecies; why would he go with the two most obvious?

I believe that Jon is AA. A lot of why I think this follows a lot of what I've read in r/asoiaf on Reddit. Too lazy to list the evidence, but Google might help. Watch out for book spoilers. I also don't remember how much of the book stuff concerning possible hints appear in the show, so who knows how that'll play out there.

I too think that Jon being Azor Ahai would be both too obvious and fall in line with the prophecy being too on the nose.

Still, here goes with my speculation.

Based off of the book:

I think Jon does Warf in to Ghost and spends time in the far North, beginning to understand the true nature of the White Walkers, possibly with Bran's help. Eventually, he does get resurrected as Mel connects the dots but upon his rebirth he is not the champion of the Light but of the Cold, subverting the prophecy altogether.


Based on the show:

I think he is just reborn in the fire and becomes the new Night's King.


Either way I can't see him just returning to be Jon Snow again. All of the talk of "Jon Snow is definitely dead" on the internet and in interviews is their very literal way of playing with the audience. Plus, only in death does he no longer have to serve on the Night's Watch. Upon his return he is either something else with a bit of Snow's memories or he becomes Jon Stark.


Also.... wild speculation abound. I would not put it past Martin to have Arya somehow figure in to Jon's ultimate fate, with her either being the key to having him remember his past (As a Stark) or, and this would break my heart, as someone she has to kill to restore balance if he becomes too powerful.

Take care all.