Because a lot of things, Superman related, are cheesy when you look back at them including Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman and Smallville...I don't remember there being too much cheesiness in 2013's Man of Steel though, it's like they were trying to do a Batman Begins-like origin story but told from Superman's point of view.
That's exactly what they were doing. Warner Bros. and DC have been trying to emulate Batman in other superheroes for a while now because everyone loves Batman. The reason we love Batman is because he's a more relatable character and his rogue gallery is more interesting. I'm not against them taking cues from Batman to help re-create the other heroes they have to make them more interesting, what I don't like is them just ripping off the formula altogether until they're unrecognizable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_10921
There's such a darker and mellow-dramatic tone with the DC movies that I just don't like. I prefer the cheesiness and camp that creeps their way into shows like The Flash. And even Arrow has its funny moment in spite of again, the main character doing the Batman thing.
The only cheesy moment in Man of Steel is the way Jonathan Kent gets sucked away by the tornado.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyenThat's exactly what they were doing. Warner Bros. and DC have been trying to emulate Batman in other superheroes for a while now because everyone loves Batman. The reason we love Batman is because he's a more relatable character and his rogue gallery is more interesting. I'm not against them taking cues from Batman to help re-create the other heroes they have to make them more interesting, what I don't like is them just ripping off the formula altogether until they're unrecognizable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_10921
There's such a darker and mellow-dramatic tone with the DC movies that I just don't like. I prefer the cheesiness and camp that creeps their way into shows like The Flash. And even Arrow has its funny moment in spite of again, the main character doing the Batman thing.
The only cheesy moment in Man of Steel is the way Jonathan Kent gets sucked away by the tornado.
Well, Man of Steel, does end on kind of a light note. What with that military lady saying that Superman is "kind of hot," and Amy Adams saying, "Hi, I'm Lois Lane. Welcome to the planet." and Clark says, "Glad to be here, Lois." and then they smile at each other and that's it. Fade to black. Roll credits.
One moment of light heartedness does not make up for 2 hours solid of grimdark
You've never read any 'dark' Superman comics, have you? Like the one in the 1990's where Superman fought Doomsday and died?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shauna
I haven't read any of the comics, no. Don't know what that's got to do with the movies, but okay!
It's not just about the subject matter. Marvel flicks deal with a lot of themes, yet they still manage to keep things moderately light and colourful. DC don't have any of that, and everything they pump out is coated in a fine coat of grey. Ugh all those muted colours.
I have read that comic, and it's nowhere near as grim as this movie.
The tone change at the end kind of works against the film because just a few scenes ago, Superman snapped a man's neck and gets over it pretty damn fast. So, sitting there, all I'm thinking about is the fact he killed Zod and now we have women crushing on him and him being all smiles. It just doesn't work.
Another issue I have with the last two Superman movies is that they spend so much time on Superman. Clark Kent is meant to be the average working Joe that people can relate to. Maybe not as many now as he's a little bit of a boyscout (I can at least relate to him because I had a similar upbringing and never acted out against my parents as much as other kids my age), but that's mainly his whole thing. Superman is the man you aspire to be because he does great things, and they're the same person! Which goes to show that regardless of all the flaws you have, you can still aspire to do great things. They can't hold you down. And for the last couple of years (on film at least) no one seems to be able to understand this simple premise.
The Superman/Batman relationship is pretty much the optimistic versus the realist. Superman likes to see the good in people, Batman views them as untrustworthy, and I think that's another reason a lot of people side towards Batman because people have proven time and time again to be untrustworthy. But Superman has always contrasted Batman's darker tones. This Superman is just as dark if not darker than Batman is, so I just don't see it working in this universe, but the next movie may prove me wrong. I don't know.
I went on a rant here, man. Boy.
Edit: Agreed, Shauna. I hate the muted colors.
You know, the funny thing about the ending though is Clark doesn't smile until Lois actually smiles at him...So, it's like Lois wanted him to smile for some reason. And Clark couldn't really "NOT" smile at her without looking like a dick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayen
The death of Superman wasn't dark. It's an excellent example of everything that was wrong with comics in the 90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_10921
The problem with Superman is that if he is portrayed as too nice and 'perfect' then people will just walk away and go view something grittier and realistic, like Batman. If instead they portray the movie as more realistic and Superman being fallible and dark, then it's too much. He can't really win.
DC just isn't able to produce lighter films that retain a solid, emotional serious core. I agree with Shauna: the Marvels pull this off to great effect many a time. DC is attempting to be receptive to what they think audiences want. They looked at how well the Dark Knight trilogy with the gritty and dark batman did, and attempted to emulate that, but... I guess they overdid it.
Maybe DC should just give up on Superman films?
There are plenty of other characters for them to choose from. I'm interested to see what the upcoming film iteration of Wonder Woman will be like, for instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
Well, another Superman film hasn't been announced yet, so I assume they're going to flesh out their DC Extended Universe a little bit before they get back to Superman...^^;
You can go dark with Superman. Not the character himself, but the things he faces. It's been done many times successfully. But when you forget Superman is supposed to strive to be better, strive to do better, than those around him, it tends to go to trout. And it's not enough to just pay lip service to it.
Go watch Superman vs. The Elite if you'd like a fairly dark Superman film that works well.
Don't get me wrong: I like Man of Steel, but with the washed out colours and too little of Superman getting to stand as an example for people rather than just reacting to villains, it wasn't a perfect Superman film.
http://static.srcdn.com/slir/w786-h3...tume-Sword.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
Dark and gritty, from the picture. Do I see several different shades of grey and brown in that photo?
Of course they are similar. The director of the Batman Begins saga, Christopher Nolan, is a producer for Man of Steel. And David Goyer was a writer for both movies.
As for the dark grittyness of the movie, I'm all for it. From the comics I've read, DC always has darker/grittier undertones to it than Marvel does. Marvel is by its very nature more light hearted, with a few exclusions here and there of course.
this is exactly why i loved Man of Steel. i have never liked that cheesy stuff and it was more or less realistic!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_10921
the same with batman, i never liked those comic looking movies but i did enjoy the serious badman.
it just works for me
It's fine if they want to do a more serious movie. But 'dark' isn't really a word to describe Superman. He's a symbol for the good in humanity, and he isn't even human. That alone is a very interesting theme for a film to explore and I feel like none of his movies have ever fully explored it.
I remember the trailers for Superman Returns and the opening of the movie which seemed to focus on the question 'Does the world need Superman?' I was really excited to see a movie that dealt with that issue on a philosophical level but of course it didn't and we ended up getting some weird film about crystals.
Sure, Superman needs to punch things, but if the focus of the film is setting up opportunities for him to do so then it's not going to be great. Without all his symbolism and what he stands for he's a pretty one-dimensional hero. Man of Steel had some good origin story stuff but in the end degraded into Superman punching Zod and destroying things. Meh.
I think Man of Steel, clearly needed another writer on set to fix the problems that David Goyer couldn't fix himself. They needed another writer like Chris Terrio, and now that they have him (Terrio) I'm pretty sure everything's going to be fine. There won't be any lines of dialogue like Lois asking, "What if I have to tinkle?" ever again. Or at least I hope not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
THIS WAS THE BEST LINE IN THE WHOLE MOVIE!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_10921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pant Leg Eater from the Bad WorldTHIS WAS THE BEST LINE IN THE WHOLE MOVIE!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_10921
I don't see how that's the best line in the whole movie...But whatever. To each their own, I guess.