"But you didn't get the TRUE Ending!"

So there were a group of Let's Players I really liked from a few years back. They don't do LPs anymore but they were great. Anyway, like most LP'ers do, they went off on tangents about other stuff because they're friends and friends tend to get sidetracked by other discussions.

I'll always remember this. One of them was talking about how he beat one of the new, more fashionable Persona games. I don't know which one. Then the other guy was like:
Guy #1 "did you get the true ending?"
Guy #2 "I fought the giant eye guy."
Guy 1:"Then you didn't get the true ending."
Guy #2: "WHAT?"
Guy #1: "You got the good ending but not the true ending."
Guy #3: "Wouldn't the true ending be good?"
Guy #2: "I thought it was pretty good."
Guy #1: "But you didn't get the true ending at all."
Guy #2: But what the hell was I supposed to do?"
Guy #1: "You gotta go back and talk to your buddies and say something like "I'm not happy with the way things turned out." Then you get a whole new dungeon and boss and true ending."
Guy #2: "That's crap."

Coupled with all the XIII-2 talk, and remembering FFX-2, I've become most displeased with the entire concept of "True" Ending. It implies that, by beating the game normally, you are still a failure and inept. You bought the game, you beat the game, but you suck and did it wrong anyway. How the hell is a good ending not the true ending? Give me a break.

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I was like: "Valkyrie Profile".

I like Valkyrie Profile a lot, but the amount of trouble you have to go through to get the true ending in that game is just insane. It's essentially impossible to get the true ending without a strategy guide, yet the "normal" ending pretty much sucks and you miss out on a WHOLE LOT by not getting the true ending, so yeeeeaaaaaaah...... D=

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

Coupled with all the XIII-2 talk, and remembering FFX-2, I've become most displeased with the entire concept of "True" Ending. It implies that, by beating the game normally, you are still a failure and inept. You bought the game, you beat the game, but you suck and did it wrong anyway. How the hell is a good ending not the true ending? Give me a break.

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I can't really wrap my mind around this way of thinking. I mean there's what Ultima Shadow described which is a complaint I can very much understand, and then there's what FF X-2 and XIII-2 do. The "true" ending in those is literally no more than an extra scene you get if you (essentially) did everything perfectly. Doing everything perfectly is not mandatory, and you're not a failure for not doing that. It's something to achieve, not something to miss out on.

There's also YouTube now so you really​ can't miss out on them :monster:

It depends on what the Good Ending and the True Ending is. FFX-2's True Ending is the Good Ending + more. The atelier series has lots of endings but everytime a true ending that is used to connect to the next installlment.

I would only ever use this phrase very rarely. If you completed the game then you completed the game. Truth has nothing to do with it.

The only time this phrase would be applicable is on a game like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night where most players only get to the "false" ending halfway through the game. The "true" ending is where you go through the game again with the entire castle inverted.

What I like to do is play without any guides or anything else, explore the game for myself instead of having it spoon fed to me. After that if I hear of more endings I'll play the game with the guide to try and get them, or if the game was only ehhh, I'll YouTube them.

It really depends on the ending and how it is done. I don't like X-2's version for instance because I find the requirements are tedious and obnoxious and the extra portion of the ending is honestly just bad (smurf Tidus and Yuna being happy) but then I find it obnoxious in games like Persona 1 and Valkyrie Profile where not getting the true ending means you settle for a bad ending and again the requirements often require a guide. Chrono Cross pulled a similar stunt but at least it was better about explaining to you what needs to be done.

I know it's P4 they are talking about and frankly, I really hate the game's True Ending. The requirements are simple but require you to do things that goes against player sensibilities to achieve and frankly the ending sequence just feels like they tacked on another sequence to try and better explain why things went down than the Normal Ending but I frankly just felt like it didn't fit in well with the rest of the story. The anime version of the series just drove this point home more how much the True Ending path feels tacked on.

I disagree. It perfectly fits the theme of the game - reaching out to the truth. The truth won't be just handed to you, you have to go out of your way to actually see it, to understand what truly happened. Thematically, it's nothing short of brilliant.

Getting the normal ending accomplishes this as well especially since it is much easier to screw that up whereas getting the true ending involves taking an ending that already explained everything to you and then finding out there is another person behind everything who feels a bit shoe horn in seeing how the original "man behind the man" character already explained everything pretty well and the last one just explains two lingering plot threads that could have easily been given to the original antagonist. Basically the ending has too many fake outs which just got on my patience.

But it was all there since the beginning. And that's just the point - even if you think you've already done everything and got all the answers, you can still go deeper. But of course, no one'a forcing you to like it :monster: I think it was well done and that the final battle was very satisfying.

I don't like this whole "True Ending" thing.

Surely the point of multiple endings is choice? If one ending is heralded as the "True" ending, then all the others must be "false", meaning that you don't really have any choice at all.

If it's just an extra scene at the end or something, I'm fine with that. But, if the "True Ending" is completely different, then I think it invalidates the whole notion that you have multiple choices.

I'm basically the opposite of Mr. Carnelian. I love having a "True Ending" where the events are completely determined and there's a "correct" storyline. Mostly because I like when a story is complete, and has no gray areas. However, that's not to say I don't like at least having the choice to go about non-true endings. The idea that you can actually affect the story based on your actions is ALSO a great thing... just not a great thing for having sequels.

As for me, I'm the kind of person who explores a game on the SECOND playthrough, not the first. On the first, I get the true ending with a guide. On the second, I make my own choices and go about things differently.

EDIT: You know, I guess that's the reason why I don't really love games that aren't on rails. Why Final Fantasy XIII is one of my favorites. Remove choice, and you can be told a story. It's far more relaxing than stressing over the choices you make, wondering if you did the right thing or not. Or, maybe that's just my anxiety...

I'm fine with having a true ending in a branching storyline. If it's the kind of true ending that ties all the other possibilities together, it's perfect. If it's just another possibility, well then it's just another possibility, true ending or not.

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Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy

As for me, I'm the kind of person who explores a game on the SECOND playthrough, not the first. On the first, I get the true ending with a guide. On the second, I make my own choices and go about things differently.

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I'm the total opposite :D
I always do things my way first playthrough, but don't hesitate to use a guide for subsequent playthroughs if I want to get everything. I just don't want to lose that sense of exploration you can only have the first time.

I quite like the idea of multiple endings. The disgaea games I feel do this very well. Theres so many ways the game can just outright end exampleLike say if you die on the first boss in disgaea 1 and 2 it gives you a short comedic ending and then cuts to an alternate version of the credits, or if you somehow beat Laharl in disgaea 2 he destroys the world and ends the game.

I love multiple endings and I feel that they can add a lot of replayability and character to the game/world if done correctly. Say for example the joke endings in the Silent Hill franchise, a series that is normally known for being incredibly dark and morbid gets to show its sense of humor. I love that trout.

I find it interesting though that you feel like a failure when you dont get the true ending. I've never felt like "true endings" imply that at all. You're not intended to get them on the first go to begin with. It's more of a treat for players that go the extra mile after beating the game normally.

True endings can be done terribly if say... the requirements for the true ending are convoluted and unexplained just to sell official players guides. I'm okay with getting a bad ending on the first go if the game hints a lot at other endings and makes the requirements for a better ending at least mostly clear to the player.

Overall though the idea of multiple endings and true endings and all that silliness is really exciting to me. I love different takes on stories and more content. I like games I can replay over and over again, and multiple endings appeal to me for exactly that reason.

Depends how it's done. I guess I'm one of those people who doesn't like "bad" endings unless it makes sense and you deserve it. Like if the option is "save this kitty or massacre an entire village of people and sit on a mountain of corpses" and you pick the second option, well you kind of deserve a bad ending imho :colbert: That poor kitty never got saved

My favourite is multiple endings were none are necessarily bad or the BEST one, but just different. Take a different path in game life, end up somewhere different. Make a different choice, get different results.

I don't like when they're a pain to get but if I like a game and they aren't too difficult, then it adds some good replay value and you can discover something new, which is nice

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

My favourite is multiple endings were none are necessarily bad or the BEST one, but just different. Take a different path in game life, end up somewhere different. Make a different choice, get different results.

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Precisely!

I couldn't have put it better. :spin:

You guys need to get into MegaTen.

True Ending kills the idea of multiple endings.

These endings should be different and there shouldn't be any "true" ending, unless it's a base for sequel or something like that.

"True Crime: Streets of LA" did a good job with multiple endings and that's the greatest way to include multiple endings in any game, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys need to get into MegaTen visual novels.

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Fixed that for you.

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys need to get into MegaTen visual novels.

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Fixed that for you.

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And as usual, my sweet son, you're wrong :p

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Originally Posted by Fynn

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys need to get into MegaTen visual novels.

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Fixed that for you.

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And as usual, my sweet son, you're wrong :p

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Oh really, Fynn? Prove it then! :P

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Originally Posted by TheZanmato

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Originally Posted by Fynn

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys need to get into MegaTen visual novels.

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Fixed that for you.

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And as usual, my sweet son, you're wrong :p

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Oh really, Fynn? Prove it then! :P

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Naturally :D

Scroll down to Shin Megami Tensei. Check out how long that list is. And how awesome all that is. Really, go play them.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

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Originally Posted by TheZanmato

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Originally Posted by Fynn

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys need to get into MegaTen visual novels.

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Fixed that for you.

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And as usual, my sweet son, you're wrong :p

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Oh really, Fynn? Prove it then! :P

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Naturally :D

Scroll down to Shin Megami Tensei. Check out how long that list is. And how awesome all that is. Really, go play them.

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All that link made me want to do is play Sailor Moon

That game is brutal, Pumpkin.

what about cheats tho

How do you cheat on an SNES game tho

emu-lators have cheats

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Scroll down to Shin Megami Tensei. Check out how long that list is. And how awesome all that is. Really, go play them.

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*relaxed smile*

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Scroll down to Shin Megami Tensei. Check out how long that list is. And how awesome all that is. Really, go play them.

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*relaxed smile*

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:stare:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

You guys need to get into MegaTen.

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Except that MegaTen ruins it's multiple endings by declaring one of them to be the "true" ending. Thus negating any feeling of player choice or agency, destroying the entire point of having endings based around moral choice, and shoving some completely BS philosophies down the throat of the player as the "correct" way to do things.

Actually, not really. Persona aside, the only instance there is a canon ending is SMT1, but that's because SMT2 is a direct sequel and they had to cut off the branches. The usual Law, Chaos and Neutral routes are all presented in a pretty cynical fashion with none of them taking any precedence over the other. Which one is "better" is up to your personal preference.

The only genre where this is permitted is fighting games. I prefer to believe Gon's Tekken 3 "loop" ending is the true ending and now the world of Tekken is stuck in a permanent tiny flying orange dinosaur loop.

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Scroll down to Shin Megami Tensei. Check out how long that list is. And how awesome all that is. Really, go play them.

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*relaxed smile*

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I wanna play the one where the girl goes crazy and the end has her cradling the guy's severed head.

Or is that only in the anime version?

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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Originally Posted by Karifean

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Scroll down to Shin Megami Tensei. Check out how long that list is. And how awesome all that is. Really, go play them.

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*relaxed smile*

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I wanna play the one where the girl goes crazy and the end has her cradling the guy's severed head.

Or is that only in the anime version?

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Not sure which endless number of Visual Novels you're referring to - but the anime adaptations take all their inspiration from the events of the original VN.

Is there really that many VNs where girls end up cradling severed heads?

If so, I must play more of them.

It's the one where the guy has like a harem and abuses all of them. It always sounded like it was a direct smurf You to the entire concept of Harem Anime//Manga.

That would be School Days. The anime got itself a bit of a reputation. And yeah, you could call it a 'deconstruction of the Harem genre', I guess...

Though the storyline depicted in the anime doesn't actually appear in the visual novel, as far as I know. Not that the VN is any less disturbing, mind you, the anime is still very much in the spirit of the original material. I haven't read it myself, and I don't intend to do so anytime soon.

I thought it'd be School Days, tbh. But it could have been Higurashi! xD Weirdly gory brutal things happen in that aw the time.

I think its good in something like Halo where theres usually an extra scene if you beat the game on the highest difficulty. Its annoying in games like X-2 where you are given choices like new yevon or youth league and the game is telling you you made the right or wrong choice. Choice in games is fine if done right but you should never have choices there just to be right or wrong so you need to use a guide to see everything.