Obviously we need a Suikoden forum
So earlier this year, I randomly decided to replay Suikoden. I skipped Suikoden I (though ended up regretting it, I didn't want to replay it after I finished V because I knew I'd get sucked into II again). But I played the other games in quick succession (Pumpkin totally ripped off my idea), and it's interesting how some of my opinions changed as a result.
I've been meaning to make this thread for a while, but have been procrastinating writing it all up. I didn't want to interrupt shion's live playthrough thread, so this thread is more about the Suikoden series as a whole. How would you rank them? What's your least popular Suikoden opinion? How many times have you replayed them? If you have, what's your preferred play order?
Here are my thoughts on each game after playing through them all back-to-back.
Suikoden II: I still love this game. It's simple, it's pretty quick, with tons of fun things to do (the cooking mini-game is stupid but great). I still love the music, I still love the characters and story. There's not really much to complain about this time. I tried something new this time, and for the first time abused the Matilda border glitch to recruit Humphrey early. It was actually hard and took a while. Of course, the rest of the game was pretty easy, but the game's not all that hard to begin with (at least, not on a replay when you know Luca Blight is coming).
Using McDohl is still very frustrating. I originally wanted to take him to the final dungeon, but after just making the trip to Toran to pick him up, when back at the castle editing the other party members, I accidentally removed him from the party. ARGH. I gave up and put in Mazus instead (I had Viktor, Humphrey, and Pesmerga with Double-Beat runes, so it's not like I needed any more physical power).
Suikoden III: I loved this game when I first played it. I actually played it twice before -- once I got to chapter 5 before getting distracted and stopping for a long time, and then later just decided to play the whole game again. But there are some parts of it that haven't aged well. The camera is terrible and your characters move frustratingly slow. It took me 12 minutes to run from Caleria to Budehuc, and that was with releasing from every random fight (and the Mt. Path treasure boss having already been defeated). I was actually tempted to make Chris my FC just so I could use her damn horse. Combined with the fact that you don't even get Viki until 30+ hours in, and parts of the game are a chore. I used to think SIV made me the most relieved to recruit Viki, but now it's definitely SIII. And the 999,999 potch limit was especially annoying in this game, when there was an added emphasis on sharpening and equipping more characters for major battles.
There are a lot of positives to SIII, of course. The major battle system is by far the best in the series. In a shocking and unique development, you can actually affect how good your units are by leveling up characters and buying better equipment. It was also decently challenging at times, especially by having a few optional-win battles (where the story continues if you lose). And of course, Yuber is a pain in the ass in all battles, regular or major. I had a pretty easy time this go-around, but I knew what to expect. It also continues SII's tradition of comical little mini-games, including the always-entertaining theater.
Suikoden IV: This game is the anti-III. For every area where SIII excelled, SIV was worse; for every area where SIII was lacking, SIV improved dramatically. This meant a lesser emphasis on story, characters, and anything too complex, and a much greater emphasis on making the game as ridiculously smooth and painless as possible (except for the overworld random battle rate, which for some goddamn reason is about 5000% that of the battle rate for every dungeon). Playing right after SIII made me really appreciate SIV for what it did do: you run lightning fast (actually too fast, Lazlo's the smurfing Roadrunner), the camera is movable, and the menu is easily organized and painless to look through. You can equip items from any part of the inventory (a feature that for some unfathomable reason was discarded in SV, where you have to go to "Equipment" and "Equip" to equip anything), SIV ditched the limits on potch and inventory size, and you can even use the Blinking Mirror from any location, not just the world map. The game probably went too far making the game as quick and painless as possible to navigate. The one thing it made more difficult: why the smurf can you not sell stuff at the item shop on your ship? It also did add one interesting feature: the ability to create armor and accessories, including some that can only be made by forging that had special bonuses. Lastly, the confession booth, while not as funny or engaging as SIII's theater, was an amusing gimmick.
There were still plenty of downsides. The story and characters are still relatively underdeveloped, and I never related to Lazlo like I did Tir and Riou (or even Frey). Lazlo just never had the endearing characters around him that brought him to life. Riou and Jowy and Nanami, Lazlo had... the two random Knights you chose at the beginning and a cat. The plot was held together by a very loose thread, and the final boss was a smurfing tree. Of course, SIV's entire existence is justified by The High Seas Friends journal, which I reread while I played, and I decided to go all William En Kuldes with this playthrough. Instead of the traditional "best team" of Ted and Snowe, I brought a harem along with me: Kika, Jeane, and Mizuki. The game is somewhat more enjoyable when you don't take it seriously.
Suikoden V: I had only played this game once before, and after that first time, I have referred to SV as the "most polished" game in the series. I no longer think that's the case, but it's still an enjoyable game, and the longest in the series. I still consider it roughly on par with SIII, but now I'm actually less inclined to replay SV than I am any other game in the series -- though that is partially just because it's so much longer.
What it did right: SV did many things right. The world felt large, probably the biggest a traditional world map has felt for me in any JRPG. The major battles were some of the largest and longest in the series. Lazlo was firmly developed by plenty of side characters: his family, Georg, Sialeeds, etc. Many of the characters added some great humor to the game, including Miakis's teasing of the Princess. It brought back the politics and betrayal to the plot, with many adventures and sub-plots. It reintroduced a type of skills system, which was more designed to provide minor stat bonuses for characters rather than SIII's system where skills were more important than stats. SV introduced some new things, including a formation system for battles, and a rune-piece system, where you could collect multiple copies of higher-level runes (especially with New Game+). Speaking of which, it has New Game+. Notably, it added a twist to the duel system: time limits on actions. Most duels still were not much of a challenge, but the limits added a level of intensity that no other game had.
What it didn't do right: The recruiting system. My god, the recruiting system. SV is a parody of the 108 stars system, where many of them require convoluted actions and choices, and more characters are outright missable than in any other game in the series. How many people their first time through missed Oboro? Some of the characters are also utterly broken. Richard and Zerase are just unfair, and Richard + Firefly rune and Zerase + Magic Absorb pretty much ends the game by themselves.
The major battle system, while more interesting than SIV's or SII's, was also more underwhelming to me, because the special skills or characters (Beavers and Dragon Calvary in water) always trump anything else, and you get so many of them that you are very rarely in any real danger. It also had some inexplicable downgrades in the menu interface from SIV, which made it a little clunkier to navigate. And I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but in some ways it also seemed a graphics downgrade, with some character models looking worse than SIV's.
So at the end, here's my ranking:
1. Suikoden II
2. Suikoden III
3. Suikoden V
4. Suikoden I
5. Suikoden IV
It's about the same as when I started this playthrough (though I used to consider III and V even), but my opinion has definitely changed on some games (thinking somewhat lesser of III and V, while more of IV). My opinion mostly changed in that I no longer consider V a clear improvement over III. I used to analogize II and V, in that both were more polished versions of their predecessor (ignoring the anomaly of IV).
I don't know if I'll ever get around to playing through the whole series again, but if I do, I think I'd like to start at IV and play chronologically -- much like Pumpkin is currently doing.
