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Obviously it's not one of the core numbered games but could it be counted as a spinoff in the vein of, say, the Tactics games? There are many similarities present, such as item names and so on.
What do you think? Is it a Final Fantasy game or something different?
I think its like... Xenogears and Xenosaga
I actually do think it's very Final Fantasy, and it is the most Final Fantasy game that has come out in years that isn't actually a Final Fantasy. Because it's not. I enjoy the series more than I've enjoyed any of the garbage FF titles that have come out recently.
It literally isn't. It's not even a spin-off like Crystal Chronicles.
Sure, I get it's almost identical in gameplay, but for whatever reason, SE chose not to include it in the Final Fantasy series. Therefore, it's not a Final Fantasy.
This isn't arguing semantics, this is fact.
While it's themes and mechanics borrow heavily from classic FF and the franchise is actually a spiritual sequel to Final Fantasy 4 Heroes of Light, I like to think of it an a different IP altogether if only because the series is pretty much a giant deconstruction of all the tropes FF has made popular over the years.
Well, it is without question that it does not carry the FF title and at this point has become its own IP after spinning off from FF, but in my view, it's still very much a Final Fantasy experience and one that is very self-aware about it. Up until the point the game' story changes from the traditional FFI/FFIII/FFV storyline with restoring crystals, the subtitle has the initials "FF". After that one plot twist happens and the story starts to be deconstructive, the Fs disappear.
So yeah, while it's its own thing now, I will still personally treat is an FF, due to it being really deeply rooted in FF tradition. And of course, everyone has the right to disagree. It's just how I see things/
Bravey Default is as much a Final Fantasy game as FFXV is part of the FFXIII series of games. Both were originally intended to be part of a series and then that decision evolved into a separate game. Fact is, Final Fantasy is not part of the title. There is no Final Fantasy game in the series that I can think of off the top of my head that is a Final Fantasy game but does not have Final Fantasy in the title.
My understanding, Fynn, is that the "FF" actually stands for Flying Fairy, as the title of the game in Japan is Bravely Default: Flying Fairy.
Yes, it does, but it was more like they picked the acronym first because of Final Fantasy AND THEN made it "Flying Fairy". On purposeQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Perhaps. You could argue similar things about Lost Odyssey's Sid being another Cid.
Them's the details :monster: And if you wanna consider Lost Odyssey a Final Fantasy - go right ahead! It's that easy
xD Personal categorisation is fine, and I'm happy to humour people with their decisions and I figure they do that for me on some things too. But if you're looking for a technically correct answer, BD is not an FF, nor is LO.
Yeah going to say that it strongly does, and is even more of a Final Fantasy than FF 13 was.
We may as well say FFVII and FFVIII aren't Final Fantasys either with that argument.
Hmm... Not really. Bravely Default takes something that is unique to FF. Just because VII and VIII introduce new elements to the formula instead of that cliche that was there before, doesn't make them any less FF.
Isn't the reason you don't consider FFXIII an FF because of its setting? Can you explain why you don't see it as one?
I think I've done it in that one big rant I had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx
To clarify: it's not that I don't consider FFXIII an FF - it is very much an FF because it's released as one. I just think Bravely Default is much more FF-like on a spiritual level. XIII was its own thing with an FF brand slapped on it, while BD was the opposite - an old school FF without that brand. The setting is fine, and I actually think it's one of the coolest, most original things about XIII. Where it failed was the poorly executed story (that had so much potential that it was frustrating) and gameplay that was just uninteresting to me. Neither was it real time, nor turn base, nor anything we knew ATB to be before it. Granted, FFXII also had a new system, but it also had the setting of Ivalice which had already been introduced to FF beforehand, alongside the prelude being there, the victory fanfare, the Final Fantasy theme, etc. XIII gives us new, sci-fi sounding classes that are just abstract. Why is it Commando and not Fighter/Warrior, for example?
Bravely Default, on the other hand, uses the exact naming for the classes as the ones usually seen in FF, adds a new spin on the classic turn-based system, graphically looks similar (but superior) to the DS remakes of III and IV, has a story that is intentionally written to be a parallel to FFI/III/V, and then we have characters that are reminiscent of previous FF characters, with lots of conversations and the party chat function that really reminds me of the ATEs from FFIX. And as much as I love Hamauzu, Revo is a much more appropriate replacement for Uematsu due to the fantastic yet simple arrangements with strong melodies which is what made Uematsu's soundtracks stand out in the first place. For these reasons, Bravely Default felt much more like a Final Fantasy game to me, personally, than XIII. It's a love letter to old school FF fans much like FFIX.
I can sort of see where Fynn is getting at. It's an FF in all but name, therefore he catalogues it as one. Makes sense.
I've not played BD, so I can't really comment. Although I'd say it isn't a Final Fantasy, it is definitely a spiritual successor to the 'classic' Final Fantasies.
The term "spiritual successor" exists for a reason.
I've not played Bravely Default. So could someone tell me if it has moogles, chocobos, cactuars, a Cid, or anything that is a staple of an actual Final Fantasy game? If it doesn't that would be case closed for me.
It has black mages, white mages, Fira, Thundaga, Curaga, and airships, though (those aren't as common as you'd think)
Airships is the closest thing to what I meant I guess, I associate those with Final Fantasy almost exclusively. But yeah, those other things don't cut it for me. That other stuff is just general RPG elements renamed in a Final Fantasy style. Even if this game took those names it's still just generic black and white magic to my mind, which is in basically every RPG. The things I mentioned are creatures designed for a Final Fantasy game and you can't think of anything else when you hear them. If you tell me Bravely Default has a Chocobo then yep, I'm right there with you saying it's a Final Fantasy game in everything but name (but also at that point, what would they have been smoking to not call it a Final Fantasy). Once again though, without at least 1 or 2 of those things it just isn't Final Fantasy enough to be considered part of the series for my mind. Especially considering that even with all those things technically it still wouldn't be a Final Fantasy game because it's not actually a Final Fantasy game (referring to the name).
Huh, and here I was thinking airships were the least "oh, it must be FF" out of those things. xD Magic names aside (and that's really pushing the limits of what makes a series), I don't think of FF when I think of those things, I think of high fantasy.
It's absolutely not like that :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin
If I think about it I'm sure they're super prevalent in, say, steampunk or something (?), but I don't read/play/watch anything like that so Final Fantasy is the only thing I can think of when i think airship. But I think you'd be more hard-pressed to find a fantasy rpg that doesn't feature some form of white/black mage that casts fire/thunder/ice/cure/revive than you would be to find a game that features airships.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
EDIT: I thought of one! Bioshock: Infinite! Pretty sure the whole game was set on airships.
The game creators do not consider it a part of the Final Fantasy series. No matter how many similarities it may have, it is not a part of the Final Fantasy series.
Literally, it is not part of the series since it doesn't have 'Final Fantasy' followed by a number in the title. But arguing over names and labels is dumb and probably not the intent of this topic. Like WK said, its 'prequel' was called FF Four Heroes of Light. SE throws the FF label around pretty liberally these days.
BD has a lot in common with the old school FFs and more in common with them than other FF spinoffs like Tactics or Crystal Chronicles. I would call it a series inspired by FF, like Mighty No. 9 is inspired by the Mega Man series and borrows heavily from it but is not a Mega Man game.
I like that they dropped the FF from this series' name because that label was getting overused and it is nice to see them take a crack at creating some new franchises.
It's a Final Fantasy game in everything but name, I think.
This thread brought to you by Fynn constantly adding this series to the FF-centric site polls. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike
:gator:
I don't think it's a Final Fantasy game. It's heavily influenced by the series, yes. But then, so was Chrono Trigger, and it is definitely its own IP. Bravely Default may be closer to the series in some ways, but both games are their own entities. Games that knew what to take from Final Fantasy, and what direction to take their own, unique charms.
And I enjoy both games more than the actual Final Fantasy series, so I don't see anything wrong with them being their own thing.
I like to see it getting added, really. It's still an SE title - not Final Fantasy, but I like a bit of variety to the polls!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoThis thread brought to you by Fynn constantly adding this series to the FF-centric site polls. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike
I still stand by Agnes being a poo character though :D
Well, she can be annoying, that's true. But I still kinda like her :p
One thing I really liked about Bravely Default was that the girls were the pro-active ones, driving the plot forward. The guys were like "okay, i guess we'll tag along"
my lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Well, whatever the "objective" argument is, apparently there are many people who think like me since, unlike other series that (arguably) spun off from FF like Mana, SaGa, and Chrono Trigger, Bravely Default and Barvely Second are covered very extensively on the FF Wiki. Even if we do treat it as one of those IPs, it goes without saying that it is the one that has the most common elements wih FF out of all of them
Also, according to the wiki in question: "Although the game has an original title, it is considered a spiritual successor of Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light, a "gaiden" or "spin-off" of the main Final Fantasy series, by its creators. The game follows the traditional Final Fantasy storyline of crystals and the Warriors of Light with the traditional job system gameplay, and the "Flying Fairy" in the Japanese title alludes to Final Fantasy by having the same initials."
So the creators basically consider it a spin-off, much like Crystal Chronicles, and not a separate IP like Chrono Trigger or Mana.
And here's a list of FF allusions within the game, just to finish this little post off.
There's that super fun term "spiritual successor" again! If only that referred exactly to what Bravely Default is in relation to Final Fantasy. :p
It's like Bioshock and System Shock. Carrying over many of the same themes, etc, but Bioshock is not a System Shock sequel. It is a spiritual successor!
Well, yeah, it is exactly that, but then you could argue that most games within the FF series are that because direct sequels are rare. Like, Final Fantasy: 4 Heroes of Light is definitely a spiritual sequel to FFIII DS, and yet it still counts as an FF spin-off. In my mind then, Bravely Default is also an FF spin-off series, much like Crystal Chronicles or Tactics, though I understand why the consensus is that it's a new IP. For me, personally, the FF elements are just way more prevalent here than in Mana, SaGa, Chrono, etc., which I've already mentioned, to be a new IP. But again - that's just me.
To be fair (and not that it would really change my personal opinion)...
I don't often do this, but because I'd be interested in seeing it: [citation needed]Quote:
Although the game has an original title, it is considered a spiritual successor of Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light, a "gaiden" or "spin-off" of the main Final Fantasy series, by its creators
Take it up with the wiki editors, man :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
By the way, the discussion we're having is a way more common thing than I thought. I think a good comparison was made in the thread that I linked up - Bravely Default is to FF what Persona is to SMT. The roots are the same, they kinda went to different directions, while still maintaining very common elements. And in both cases it's debatable is one series still belongs under the umbrella of the other :p
And in both cases the spin-offs are superior. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FynnTake it up with the wiki editors, man :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
By the way, the discussion we're having is a way more common thing than I thought. I think a good comparison was made in the thread that I linked up - Bravely Default is to FF what Persona is to SMT. The roots are the same, they kinda went to different directions, while still maintaining very common elements. And in both cases it's debatable is one series still belongs under the umbrella of the other :p
Actually Final Fantasy Adventure (Mana), the Legend series (actually SaGa), and Vagrant Story also have full coverage on the FF Wiki, so I wouldn't necessarily call it evidence. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
BD is pretty much an FF in all but name, but I prefer to think of it as a separate IP that has grown away from the source material much like Mana and SaGa have from FF. Also Chrono Trigger has more in common with DQ than FF if you ask me.
Not being part of the FF franchise allows them to take the game in any direction without pissy FF "fans" complaining that the game is too different (whatever they mean by that).
Sorry to keep parroting 'spiritual successor' but I'm with Shauna and Mirage. Being its own thing can allow it to grow beyond whatever constraints having 'Final Fantasy' gives it.