What name do you prefer for TERRA. or KEFKA.
yeah.
hmm makes me wonder why everyone fights over Aerith or Aeris (itsaerisbtwbye)
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What name do you prefer for TERRA. or KEFKA.
yeah.
hmm makes me wonder why everyone fights over Aerith or Aeris (itsaerisbtwbye)
I guess Tina is okay, but I still prefer Terra. Tina works better for the Japanese version because the "ti" syllable is a phonotactical rarity in that language, making the name exotic. Terra sounds exotic in English, so that was a pretty great change.
Cefca is just stupid, though. The C would becom an S when said out loud, so whoever transcribed that did not do their research.
Don't for get Mash/Sabin and Cheyenne/Cyan!
lol. i never knew there were others but screw it, what is the best name of all charactersQuote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
You act like all words in English with Ce and Ca are pronounced as Se and Sa which is not the case. Celtic, Cactuar, et cetera. Cefca and Cain are fine. The Ke and Ka katakana are here to mimic a hard pronounced c, a k or whatever sounds the same so Cefca is totally legit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
And his name is Cayenne, not Cheyenne.
Okay, dude. You're messing with a linguist.Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothYou act like all words in English with Ce and Ca are pronounced as Se and Sa which is not the case. Celtic, Cactuar, et cetera. Cefca and Cain are fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
In English-root words, "ca" is always pronounced as [ka], while "ce" is always [se]. This stems from way way back in Old English when things were different and later transcriptions just messed stuff up. Also, Latin doesn't have k in its alphabet which messed stuff up in the Middle Ages further. Celtic is the exception rather than the rule.
Please, "dude". Do not play this card. You know I can do that as well. The mere fact that you even acknowledge that there are words which are written with a "ce" and pronounced hard pretty much confirms everything needed, it is not an "always" then. I have spoken to other English native speakers, they all found it very easy to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Ahhh, semantics.
And yet you fail to bring up an example of a hard k in a word starting with ca for the second time.
Well?
(Also, "I spoke to native speakers" is a non-argument unless they are linguists because otherwise all you'll learn is folk linguistics which is not actually anything backed by science and research, just anecdotal data)
Why fail? It was never even asked for to write a word with ca. And there are plenty of them. You may not forget I have had this argument early so of course I thought about some word at thatn time. You should even know it because I partially mentioned this argument in one of my threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
How is that a "non-argument"? Even non-linguists have their own vocabulary. And the existence of some words even confirms that the possibility exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
What is it then? I'm sorry, there's so many threads on this forum that I can't keep up with who said what
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
What is what? Please specify what you want to know.
Give me an English-root word that starts with "ca" and "c" is pronounced [s]
And on that note, I'd just like to follow this up with a question to all the English-as-a-native-language-speakers here: how would you pronounce the word "Cefca" upon encountering it, without any reference to the fact that it's an alternate spelling of Kefka?
I do not quite understand how you could assume I said something about "ca". I did not say "ca" is pronounced "sa", is said something against people who treat "c" like an automatic guarantee for an "s" sound, so I said exactly the opposite of what you understood, as you should have read from Cefca and Cain and Cayenne, which all have a "ka" katakana to mimic a "k" sound and are written with a "c" then in manuals and stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Then you clearly misunderstood me because I made it clear in my post that the pronunciation of "c" is entirely context dependent. Just as a general rule, it's a [k] before "a" and an [s] before "e". General rule for English-root words. There are exceptions, mostly in words of foreign origin.
My point was just that any English speaker would, at first glance, pronounce "Cefca" as "Sefka". Hence the transcription is bad.
QuicheQuote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
I had a feeling this was gonna happen :roll2: enough talk. Have at thee! *dracula battle"
SO YEAH, the English names for all the characters are basically the preferred names for me. Tina sounds like a valley girl's name, Mash is dumb, and Cheyenne is too long. Cefca is stupid as well.
No, I did understand you. The normal rule is that most words with a "ce" are pronounced like "se" in English and I never would deny that. That does not change the fact that words exist out there which are not and saying "I do not count them because they are lonely words" is also no good argument. I think words showing different pronunciations show the possibility. ALSO, also, there is the thing: Very important -> that not all words you find in a Japanese manual are supposed to have an English writing or pronunciation or origin in mind. So we can even go more global and think about the name in context of a language that is not English (normal, by the way - many foreign words in Japanese that are written in katakana and that appear in games are for example German or something else or have German or something else in mind. "Birusu" for Beerus in DBZ is a pun to the German pronounciation of virus, not of the English one, well later it also became a pun of Beer but that is a different story)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Two people arguing about linguistics is the most adorable thing.
:stare:
That's rich, coming from the sociologist. Just watch all the "hard science" people come in and patronize all of us.
Zzzzzzzzzz
(Jolts awake after being poked)
I'm sorry.........what was the question again Galuf?
Oh yeah, pronunication.
I finds an English PAL translation and I plays it.
Aerith I care more about cos they did change that up when they translated the sequels.
Personally I really find it annoying when some Final Fantasy sites always treat names from remakes as the "actual", "official" names.
I mean, look at Cyan's "SwdTech" skill on the Final Fantasy section on "wikia", for example:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/B...al_Fantasy_VI)
"Bushido (必殺剣), "Hissatsu Ken), also known as SwdTech"
It's not "also known as SwdTech", it IS known as SwdTech!
That's the original name in the first official American translation from 1994!
It should be the other way around - "SwdTech, also known as Bushido in the Japanese version and some remakes" or something like that.
Seeing an alternate translation of a character's name after playing the game for years is so obnoxious. I don't go around renaming square enix employees, so they better well stop renaming people I know. :colbert:
Which alternate translations? These have existed since time immemorial. I mean, two of them existing means there is an alternative but it sounds like you mean this is new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
Ah I know, I'm just being unreasonable again. :shobon:
It's not the alternate translations themselves that bother me, it's the fact that a lot of sites seem to treat the original version as if it is some kind of rare unknown thing that was released as some kind of bonus version or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
If a site mentions "Final Fantasy 6 SNES" and nothing else, then it is very natural to expect it to prioritise the original version, because that's what actually IS Final Fantasy 6 from the beginning - every other version is just a remake based on that version.
Anyway, as for the names Terra/Tina and Kefka/Cefka;
I like both Tina and Terra, with a slight preference towards Terra, but I definitely prefer Kefka, since the spelling "Cefka" implies the pronunciation "Sefka", and that sounds stupid.
The name is Cefca, no Cefka. And as mentioned, it does not automatically imply any se at all. Just like Cyan's name is not Cheyenne, but Cayenne. Not everything is written with ordinary English rules in mind. If it is hard to imagine for you, think about Ce being hard pronounced in other languages or have even "other other" pronunciations. Those are also absolutely legit when names in Japanese are made up and then converted. You might as well go and say Tolkien was wrong pronouncing his own invented character as "Keleborn" or "Kirdan" but I would say, if I choose a name for something I create, I decide how it is written and how it is pronounced. As a matter of fact English speaking people pronounce so many names that come from Japan, and not only from Japan, wrong, being upset about Cefca is silly.
As far as the names go: I have a thing for both Tina and Terra, when it comes to Kefka I think Cefca looks better. C is one of my favourites though.
It may not imply any particular pronunciation in some languages, but we are talking about the American translation here, and a C that's written before the letters E, I and Y is typically pronounced as an S, so writing it as "Cefca" for an American audience is unnecessarily misleading - that spelling would have been more fitting for a Latin audience.
Some changes make a lot of sense, yes, like changing "Pearl" to "Holy" and those kinds of things, but changing "Kefka" to "Cefca" just seems pointless.
Also, the original Japanese pronunciation is "KeFuKa" anyway - you can see that very clearly in the Japanese version if you can read Katakana - so "Kefka" is a perfect American spelling, IMO.
"Kefca" and "Kefcka" would have worked fine as well.
Aye he is a KeFu*ka.
That would have worked even better. :jokey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Galuf
"Cefca" is in not the "the English translation" though (I might have misunderstood you though and you just meant "it should also not have been used as such") - I mean, what is hard to say about "do you know this guy Sefka" - "oh, actually he is Kefka" - "uh, but he is written with a c" - "yes but Cs are not always pronounced as s, sometimes they are a ts, a ch and rarely even a k, also the name is made up". Whenever you see something in games or manuals or somewhere else and that comes from Japan it is not automatically meant to be English and I have explained that already. I do not deny that the person who wrote Cefca probably does not know English rules fully but I have already explained multiple aspects about Japanese that show why Cefca is perfectly fine, especially as we do not know in which mindset it was written or if such a mindset was used at all - even after years and many retcons Cefca still exists, so even more to assume it was not written under a misunderstanding. And as said, what would you say about poor Mr. Tolkien, an English speaking person using "Ce" and "Ci" like "Ke" and "Ki". Also, as said, I have heard and read English speaking people getting very upset about bring corrected whenever the mispronounce or write something that is definitely based on a fact so we are very much talking about double standards here. You try to tell Japan has made a big mistake which they did not but how many mistranslations did other countries actually make. I can also say by your rules "Cyan" is totally and absolutely nonsensically translated. Why? Because he is written in Katakana as "Kaien" and meant to be "Cayenne". So how would an English speaking person knowing Japanese and English rules assume that "Cyan" is right when "Cy" is also typically pronounced as "Sai" while they have seen the first katakana is "Ka" mimicing the sound of a hard pronounced "Ca"? You see, we can endlessly play this game. And as said, not everything written in Japanese is meant to be English, not everything has to follow ordinary rules and of course and I think we should also not forget that, whenever I make up a name, I should still be allowed to decide about that name. Hell, by following strict rules Lovecraft would not have been allowed to say his character Cthulu has NO PROPER way of getting perfectly pronounced and that "K'tooloo is only the most proper way because they actual pronounciation is not possible for us". This is language, something so versatile and then even mixed with own ideas which makes it even more versatile. That is why I think that even in English Cefca would have been okay. I still see so many other names mispronounced, so one more would really not matter, how often have I heard people saying "it is Ba-haa-met", when it is, factually Bahamut (Bahamuuto) with a short a and a long u (or for what it is worth, a German like me a relatively normal u). So yeah, stop ganging up on poor Cefca. He is a clown, his life is hard enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986
I am not saying that the Japanese "Cefca" spelling is incorrect in any way, what I am saying though is that I don't see any good reason to use that spelling in English versions of the game when the pronunciation "Kefka" has already been well established.
Every FF6 enthusiast knows that his name is normally pronounced "Kefka", and almost nobody says "Sefka".
This seems like a classical "if it's not broke, don't fix it" kind of scenario.
There is no concrete reason to change "Kefka" into anything else, just like there would be no reason to change "Vivi" in FF9 into "Bibi", or "Auron" in FF10 into "Aaron".
Another completely pointless change from FF Tactics is the change from the wonderfully simple "Magic Song" into "Magickal Refrain" - like, what?
Compare these changes to changing "Nuke" into "Flare" in FF1, or the horrendous "Fire Bracelet" into "Fire Breath" in FF Tactics, and I think you can see what I mean.
Man, Kefka is awesome.
English is not the only language in the world and the intent can be understood. How many English people mispronounce words like Worcester? HM!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Your example is not appropriate though. Bibi and Aaron do actually stand for Vivi and Auron (the "Aa" comes more from something like a German version of "Aura", as it would not be like "Ora" but more like you guys say "ow" and if you stretch that a bit you can sort of hear a long a, I cannot explain that better, just like Japanese people write Rebirth as Ribasu, because the "err" sound in English could if you pay attention contain some sort of "a" sound) They are also intended as Vivi and Auron even in Japan. Just as Zakkusu is not intended as "Zax" but as Zack and also written "Zack" in the main menu of the Japanese version of Crisis Core.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986
Anyway, let's top here. Let's better talk about how stupid I think "Stragus Magus" is.
Bibi Baggins.
Kefka- It just looks like a name a villain would have, Cefka not so much.
Terra- Just feels so unique and refreshing, like Terra comes from a different world.
Sabin- Feels more prince-y, like you knew that he grew up in a royal kingdom. I do love Mash though, because it reminds me of Mash Potatoes. :jess:
Aeris- Aerith sounds like you are trying to say ' Aeris ' but you have a awful lisp, like Aeri-fwthhh.
uh oh..... Itsa gonna start again.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
I like the name "Sabin" as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
It's interesting however that his Japanese name, "Masshu", seems to aim at something like "Matt", "Matthew" or "Mathias", and that would also fit him really well.
"Mash" actually was written with Matthias in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986I like the name "Sabin" as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
It's interesting however that his Japanese name, "Masshu", seems to aim at something like "Matt", "Matthew" or "Mathias", and that would also fit him really well.
Mathias, Matthew or something like that would fit better than sabin, considering his brother's name is Edgar. Mash just looks dumb in English.
Cheer up Galuf, generating debate is what keeps threads going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galufuh oh..... Itsa gonna start again.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
I could throw more specific opinions in about pronunciation but I prefer to stay on the story based things.
Matthias sounds good for a prince character, but not somebody who wants to escape the royal life and become a warrior monk. Matt could've been a good nickname for him later on in the game though. Matt throughout the main game, but Matthias during the childhood flashback with Edgar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth"Mash" actually was written with Matthias in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986I like the name "Sabin" as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
It's interesting however that his Japanese name, "Masshu", seems to aim at something like "Matt", "Matthew" or "Mathias", and that would also fit him really well.
Or Mash throughout the main game and Matthias during the flashback, would've been neat too.
That's one thing that I really dislike about some remakes - the unwise name change decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
"Mash" does not look good at all in English, it may be "funny" but it's a pretty silly name, and hard to take seriously.
Same thing with the stupid change from "Banon" to "Banan" as well, by the way.
"Banon" just sounds so much cooler and works better with the English language - "Banan" just looks weird.
There are lots of stupid things like this in all kinds of remakes and fanmade versions;
I seriously once heard of a fan version of this game where they had translated "Kearu" as "Keal" - eh, okay?
What the hell is "Keal"?
What was so wrong about "Cure", which by the way is most likely the intended name anyway?
And even worse, I believe Cure 3 was called "Kealga" or something.
I will never understand these kinds of decisions.
It's almost like they are going all George Lucas over the original translation, like "here, these are the actual names that should be used, forget about the names in the 1994 version for the SNES, let's replace them if we have the slightest excuse to do so".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986That's one thing that I really dislike about some remakes - the unwise name change decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
"Mash" does not look good at all in English, it may be "funny" but it's a pretty silly name, and hard to take seriously.
Same thing with the stupid change from "Banon" to "Banan" as well, by the way.
"Banon" just sounds so much cooler and works better with the English language - "Banan" just looks weird.
There are lots of stupid things like this in all kinds of remakes and fanmade versions;
I seriously once heard of a fan version of this game where they had translated "Kearu" as "Keal" - eh, okay?
What the hell is "Keal"?
What was so wrong about "Cure", which by the way is most likely the intended name anyway?
And even worse, I believe Cure 3 was called "Kealga" or something.
I will never understand these kinds of decisions.
It's almost like they are going all George Lucas over the original translation, like "here, these are the actual names that should be used, forget about the names in the 1994 version for the SNES, let's replace them if we have the slightest excuse to do so".
They wrote "Keal" because the magic "Cure" is written with the katakana "Ke-a-ru". That could either try to imitiate the sound of "Care", or, and that is surely the actually intended thing: "Cure" for real, because it always has been like this. If you say "Cure" there is this very short "e" sound in it, just like you sometimes can hear out some sort of "a" sound in the normal "err" sound that is in words like "birth" and "bird" (thus "ribasu").
"Care" is pretty interesting, I always thought that "Kearu" seemed to sound a bit different from "Cure".Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986That's one thing that I really dislike about some remakes - the unwise name change decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
"Mash" does not look good at all in English, it may be "funny" but it's a pretty silly name, and hard to take seriously.
Same thing with the stupid change from "Banon" to "Banan" as well, by the way.
"Banon" just sounds so much cooler and works better with the English language - "Banan" just looks weird.
There are lots of stupid things like this in all kinds of remakes and fanmade versions;
I seriously once heard of a fan version of this game where they had translated "Kearu" as "Keal" - eh, okay?
What the hell is "Keal"?
What was so wrong about "Cure", which by the way is most likely the intended name anyway?
And even worse, I believe Cure 3 was called "Kealga" or something.
I will never understand these kinds of decisions.
It's almost like they are going all George Lucas over the original translation, like "here, these are the actual names that should be used, forget about the names in the 1994 version for the SNES, let's replace them if we have the slightest excuse to do so".
They wrote "Keal" because the magic "Cure" is written with the katakana "Ke-a-ru". That could either try to imitiate the sound of "Care", or, and that is surely the actually intended thing: "Cure" for real, because it always has been like this. If you say "Cure" there is this very short "e" sound in it, just like you sometimes can hear out some sort of "a" sound in the normal "err" sound that is in words like "birth" and "bird" (thus "ribasu").
I would expect "Cure" to be transliterated as "Kyu-A-Ru" or something (or something starting with "Kyu-"), but maybe it is easier for Japanese people to pronounce it like "Ke-A-Ru".
I also was surprised the first time I saw it in Crisis Core as I would write something like "Ki-yu-u-ru" (Kyuuru) or something like Kyuaru, like you said. but apparently the Kearu is normal and as mentioned, I can see why. There are alwase those "hidden sounds in words". You have to imagine it like that. I know it pretty much could still be imitated with something like the "i/y" but "e" seems to be the way to go ordinarily in Japanese here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986"Care" is pretty interesting, I always thought that "Kearu" seemed to sound a bit different from "Cure".Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter1986That's one thing that I really dislike about some remakes - the unwise name change decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
"Mash" does not look good at all in English, it may be "funny" but it's a pretty silly name, and hard to take seriously.
Same thing with the stupid change from "Banon" to "Banan" as well, by the way.
"Banon" just sounds so much cooler and works better with the English language - "Banan" just looks weird.
There are lots of stupid things like this in all kinds of remakes and fanmade versions;
I seriously once heard of a fan version of this game where they had translated "Kearu" as "Keal" - eh, okay?
What the hell is "Keal"?
What was so wrong about "Cure", which by the way is most likely the intended name anyway?
And even worse, I believe Cure 3 was called "Kealga" or something.
I will never understand these kinds of decisions.
It's almost like they are going all George Lucas over the original translation, like "here, these are the actual names that should be used, forget about the names in the 1994 version for the SNES, let's replace them if we have the slightest excuse to do so".
They wrote "Keal" because the magic "Cure" is written with the katakana "Ke-a-ru". That could either try to imitiate the sound of "Care", or, and that is surely the actually intended thing: "Cure" for real, because it always has been like this. If you say "Cure" there is this very short "e" sound in it, just like you sometimes can hear out some sort of "a" sound in the normal "err" sound that is in words like "birth" and "bird" (thus "ribasu").
I would expect "Cure" to be transliterated as "Kyu-A-Ru" or something (or something starting with "Kyu-"), but maybe it is easier for Japanese people to pronounce it like "Ke-A-Ru".
I prefer Terra and Kefka, because I was told by a mysterious man in white if I ever uttered the other names I would be killed in my sleep.
Personally I think that any FF6 forum should stick to the names that are consistent with that specific forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayen
It's just annoying when people use names from different versions, because a lot of people on that forum will be unfamiliar with those different names.
I have seem people on the forum for the original 1998 PSX version translation of "Star Ocean: The Second Story" on GameFaqs talk about characters that don't even exist in that version just randomly without specifying what version they are talking about, and that makes no sense - and I was not the only one who got a reaction like "...what?".
Those people should visit the forums for the other more recent versions, or at the very least specify that they are talking about "Second Evolution" or whatever version the hip kids are playing today instead of being like "lol so this Second Evolution version is like the only version that has ever existed, so no doubt everyone is 100% familiar with everything in that version".
There's not exactly anything wrong with people referring to characters with the names that they prefer. And it sure as hell doesn't seem reasonable for a forum to impose a rule that requires people to use a specific name.
i read a walkthrough for a lvl 1 run of IX.
amarant was called salamander, i never knew that.
so i just looked it up and boom.
I think everyone can use what name they want, if you dont know then just look it up.
Well, the issue here is that none of the English names are the actual names - we are talking about a Japanese game with multiple localizations that fans are aware of at this point in time. Just because one localization was first and another recitifies a choice later doesn't make any one of them more or less valid. Though from a creative standpoint, the newer translations take precedent over the old ones, due to localizing teams having more freedom due to better communication, as well as more guidance from the original content creators, so the newer translations of names and stuff can be considered more accurate and more in line with the intended effect of the Japanese version.
The FFVI GBA remake was far from obscure, as SE was very eagerly hyping up the Finest Fantasy for Advance line, clearly wanting it to leave a lasting impression on old fans and new generations alike. That said, the FFVI retranslation didn't change much, in fact leaving in a lot of literal Woolseyisms because they worked better than the original. FFIV is a different case because it currently has two vastly different translations that can be considered "canon" but are vastly different in style. At least they keep the terminology consistend.
As for guides - I don't know what FAQs you follow, but from what I noticed on GameFAQs, the platform is always given and a disclaimer at the beginning usually says what version the walkthrough is based on.
Cefca is aesthetically revolting and Kefka is not. So it seems like an obvious choice.