Blind Bloodborne playthrough thread HYPE

Hi! I'm a huge Dark Souls fan! I get to play Bloodborne! I'm EXCITED

Please keep the thread spoiler free : )

Couple hours in! Some impressions: love the atmosphere. It's dark but classy. Love the knocks on doors. I died lots. I'm surprised by the scarcity of spoiler lanterns. It seems they went back to Demon's Souls system in terms of warping/checkpoints. Not knowing this gave me some frustration.

So far the hardest part is navigating. Way more than Dark Souls I believe Bloodborne gives you nothing to go on where to go and when from the start. Ended up at spoiler Father Gascoine as my first bossfight without any levelling or weapon upgrades. Was probably not the way to go.

Also must've missed shortcuts cause it was a loooooohoooooooooong way to the boss I believe I should've ended up first.

More tomorrow!

I love this game way more than any souls game. Got the guide for the main and DLC and the art book. Love the lore and atmosphere

Yeah, I met Father Gascoigne first as well. He promptly annihilated me. Central Yharnam does have quite a few shortcuts though. Also, have you been talking to the locked up residences?

What build/starting weapons are you going for?

Yes, the game does feel like Demon's Souls a lot more than the traditional Souls games.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Yeah, I met Father Gascoigne first as well. He promptly annihilated me. Central Yharnam does have quite a few shortcuts though. Also, have you been talking to the locked up residences?

What build/starting weapons are you going for?

Yes, the game does feel like Demon's Souls a lot more than the traditional Souls games.

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I got annihilated by him too haha. I chose Troubled Past for stats, Axe for weapon (despite knowing it scaled with Strength, not Skill) as it looked so cool. When I found the Saw/Spear I went for that and its faster swings seem to work better for me at this point. Chose the single-bullet gun but found out it does miss the skinny enemies sometimes which is frustrating. 'Parrying' is even more satisfying than in Dark Souls when it does work!

Have been talking to the residences but none would want any of me (yet) : (

The Axe is a surprisingly popular weapon for many players it seems. It does have great range in it's two-handed form and with the write Blood Gems, it can be a beast of a weapon against the bigger four legged bosses due to it's wide sweeping range and stagger potential.

It's got such crowd control and high stagger and range, it's really the best weapon for new players, hands down. Though if you're like me, it almost feels like cheating after a while lol so I never used it as a main weapon, but it is undeniably one of the best, especially for the first leg of the game

I chose the Threaded Cane and never regretted that decision. Being a Skill Build helped. Shame the only other decent Skill weapon is a DLC exclusive weapon.

My arcane character had skill as secondary and (SPOILER) the rapier you get towards the middle of the game was pretty phenomenal when buffed with arcane and a good set of gems. I actually stopped playing the base game with her because it was too easy

And you get an awesome dual wielding set(SPOILER) from a character either toward the beginning or end of the game
depending on your choices

Threaded cane was the way I went with my first character as well. I can't pretend I didn't get hammered in the beginning though. But it was the first Souls type game I actually got into so I didn't have the experience series veterans had

I was a Skill/Strength build so the (SPOILER)Rakuyo was my go to weapon by the end of the DLC, but I stuck with the Threaded Cane for most of it. I mean it pulls off four different damage types.

I wish I had put more points into Bloodtinge cause the (SPOILER)Chikage was a great weapon.

So I just tried Spoiler Father Gascoine about 6-7 more times and got him to about 20% 3 times now before getting annihilated. It's like fighting Gwyn shieldless. I'm struggling with the parry timings still. Beat him as a summon once, but I want to beat all bosses solo myself! Tough fight. I also ran out of silver bullets so I guess I gotta do some farming.

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

So I just tried Spoiler Father Gascoine about 6-7 more times and got him to about 20% 3 times now before getting annihilated. It's like fighting Gwyn shieldless. I'm struggling with the parry timings still. Beat him as a summon once, but I want to beat all bosses solo myself! Tough fight. I also ran out of silver bullets so I guess I gotta do some farming.

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Two tips:

1. If you have any of them, use oil urn and Molotov Cocktails on his second transformation to bring the hurt.

2. Go all out aggressive. This was my issue with the fight was that I was playing too defensively and this is one of many fights that will teach you to take it to them instead. If your weapon has good Rally potential, you should be able to trade blows and outlast him.

If you're talking about his final stage, get used to dodging to the side. A lot of people make the mistake of just dodging backwards as a reflex but you want to train yourself not to do that because all of his attacks move mostly straight forward when he's not jumping around. So if you dodge back you just put yourself in line to get hit more. You want to get comfortable and get used to trying to stay up his arse. It's a handy tool to have in your belt for most boss fights. Staying calm, and staying close

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

So I just tried Spoiler Father Gascoine about 6-7 more times and got him to about 20% 3 times now before getting annihilated. It's like fighting Gwyn shieldless. I'm struggling with the parry timings still. Beat him as a summon once, but I want to beat all bosses solo myself! Tough fight. I also ran out of silver bullets so I guess I gotta do some farming.

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Two tips:

1. If you have any of them, use oil urn and Molotov Cocktails on his second transformation to bring the hurt.

2. Go all out aggressive. This was my issue with the fight was that I was playing too defensively and this is one of many fights that will teach you to take it to them instead. If your weapon has good Rally potential, you should be able to trade blows and outlast him.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

If you're talking about his final stage, get used to dodging to the side. A lot of people make the mistake of just dodging backwards as a reflex but you want to train yourself not to do that because all of his attacks move mostly straight forward when he's not jumping around. So if you dodge back you just put yourself in line to get hit more. You want to get comfortable and get used to trying to stay up his arse. It's a handy tool to have in your belt for most boss fights. Staying calm, and staying close

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Thank you both for the support! I just bought some molotov cocktails! I will dodge to the side! TIME TO HUNT

Edit: beat him first try with this haha! Thanks guys : )

Woot. Congrats. He's one of my favorite bosses, I also find him to be one of the harder bosses, but it could just be me. But enjoy the rest of the game that just opened up. It only gets better

Now that you passed him, did you find the music box?

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Now that you passed him, did you find the music box?

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I did not :0

I explored onwards until I got killed by spoilerGatling Gun Guy on top of the roof! His shotgun chunks like half my HP.

Welcome to Old Yharnam, I suggest a torch for your left hand weapon.

Have you tried any of the Chalice Dungeons yet?

Fighting the Spoiler Bloodstarved Beast and here's my first criticism of the game: what the hell is going on sometimes. The faster pace of the game makes for much much harder telegraphing of moves and once stunlocked things are just over. The "rules" are just not clear. Is there poise? Do some moves have hyper armor? I dont have a clue.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Welcome to Old Yharnam, I suggest a torch for your left hand weapon.

Have you tried any of the Chalice Dungeons yet?

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I'm in a dungeon now fighting an Undead Giant. He's hard :0

Chained Undead Giant is literally the hardest boss in the game I'm pretty sure

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

Fighting the Spoiler Bloodstarved Beast and here's my first criticism of the game: what the hell is going on sometimes. The faster pace of the game makes for much much harder telegraphing of moves and once stunlocked things are just over. The "rules" are just not clear. Is there poise? Do some moves have hyper armor? I dont have a clue.

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There is no poise for you, though some monsters do have some which heavier weapons will work on to stunlock them. The game is really based more on dodging and punishing as you have pretty decent invincibility frames for dodging, and there is an item gained later that lets you use Quicksilver bullets to give you a psuedo-teleport spam move for 30s. Aggression and speed are your friends, so the defensive game is primarily about dodging, flanking, and using your gun for riposte attacks. The Blood Starved Beast for instance is incredibly susceptible to the gun riposte. Most enemies, including bosses, can be riposte with the guns, bigger enemies can also have their limbs damaged, allowing for you to do more damage (usually when the head gets "broken" and breaking limbs will have them stunned so you can pull off a visceral attack on them.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

Chained Undead Giant is literally the hardest boss in the game I'm pretty sure

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It sure felt that way to me

And yeah, BSB is there to basically force you to get used to quick dodges and quick recovery. And as Wolf says, once you're confident enough, it's super susceptible to gun repostes. It's one of the more erratic bosses. Also the poison is meant to scare you, if you stay up it's arse and manage to keep the aggression up, you get a significantly lower poison build-up than if you're just running from it and getting attacked; as there seems to be more/quicker poison build-up in front of it than behind it, and WAY more built-up from getting hit by it (which makes sense)

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

Fighting the Spoiler Bloodstarved Beast and here's my first criticism of the game: what the hell is going on sometimes. The faster pace of the game makes for much much harder telegraphing of moves and once stunlocked things are just over. The "rules" are just not clear. Is there poise? Do some moves have hyper armor? I dont have a clue.

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There is no poise for you, though some monsters do have some which heavier weapons will work on to stunlock them. The game is really based more on dodging and punishing as you have pretty decent invincibility frames for dodging, and there is an item gained later that lets you use Quicksilver bullets to give you a psuedo-teleport spam move for 30s. Aggression and speed are your friends, so the defensive game is primarily about dodging, flanking, and using your gun for riposte attacks. The Blood Starved Beast for instance is incredibly susceptible to the gun riposte. Most enemies, including bosses, can be riposte with the guns, bigger enemies can also have their limbs damaged, allowing for you to do more damage (usually when the head gets "broken" and breaking limbs will have them stunned so you can pull off a visceral attack on them.

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Aha, thanks for the info. I think with the Bloodstarved Beast there was so much skin and limbs and things flailing around I found it really hard to distinguish one move from the other. I co-oped it again as a summon and managed to land some parry shots, but it's hard to be in the right position quick enough to pull off the visceral attack, unless you're directly in front of it.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

Chained Undead Giant is literally the hardest boss in the game I'm pretty sure

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It sure felt that way to me

And yeah, BSB is there to basically force you to get used to quick dodges and quick recovery. And as Wolf says, once you're confident enough, it's super susceptible to gun ripostes. It's one of the more erratic bosses. Also the poison is meant to scare you, if you stay up it's arse and manage to keep the aggression up, you get a significantly lower poison build-up than if you're just running from it and getting attacked; as there seems to be more/quicker poison build-up in front of it than behind it, and WAY more built-up from getting hit by it (which makes sense)

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I'm also struggling to pull off visceral attacks from charge attacking from behind. Can I just attack from behind or do I need to move to the front after I land the stun charge attack?

I farmed some echoes and items and finally managed to beat the Undead Giant. Beat spoiler the 3 watchers first try after that.

Another gripe I have with the game is that it's really frustrating to land the parry gun shot but then still get hit by the enemy attack, not getting in the visceral attack. Also there seem to be some hitbox issues with the black-caped generic human/beast enemy in central Yharnam.

For visceral back-attacks, you charge your attack, hit, they drop to one knee, then you just do a regular attack from behind, I don't even think you have to step forward, and you definitely do not have to move to their front. You can totally stick your hand through their spine

As for getting hit during a reposte, I don't recall that being an issue. You do have to shoot them during an attack animation, but you mostly only have to wait for their start-up for that attack, it doesn't have to be directly in your face. So you may have extremely good timing from the sound of it if you're waiting for the very last possible second and taking a hit. You should be fine shooting them a tad sooner to stagger them

Then again, pretty much everyone in the starting area are annoying until you get to a point in the game, or character strength where they don't matter. It's a great place to farm for bullets and vials. But I never tried to dazzle my way through much of that. I was more concerned about "parrying" the bigger fellas like knights and ogres

Also, for your Bloodstarved Beast parry positioning, are you using your dodge to move around the stage, and not just to dodge? Usually if you knock him down with a bullet, it means he was aiming to attack you, and there's a good chance you can dodge toward him a couple of times within the time frame to get the visceral on him. But you were co-opping so he may have been aiming to hit your partner. In solo it's almost guaranteed since you're the one he'd be coming after, he'd have to be within range to hit you, and aimed at you, so everything should be lined up and within distance

Yeah it sounds to me like you're having bad timing, but I had similar struggles in the beginning as well. You can use visceral from behind as well, you just tap attack after charged attack to instigate it. If it's not working, then chances are you're too far away due to the range of your charged attack, or in rare cases, the charged attack may have re-positioned you out of range. You generally want to be on top of them practically to get the visceral. With some practice, it will start to become second nature, though I will mention that not all enemies are worth trying to go for the parry. A wonderful example is the Blood Lickers from Cainhurst and the Hunter's Nightmare, it's damn near impossible to pull off a parry against them and pretty lethal as well.

There are a few ways to handle the Blood Starved Beast, again like Father Gascoigne, he's really susceptible to fire damage. The guy also has trout for tracking, so if you simply keep circling/dodging to your left, he tends to miss you but continue on his three hit combos, leaving him open for counters. If you plan on doing more of the Chalice Dungeons or the DLC, you'll get pretty good with him since he shows up a few times in those places.

Also the torch is a great left handed weapon in Old Yharnam, especially if you found the Hunter's Torch which does a bit more damage.

Thanks for all the info guys! I'm getting the hang of those visceral attacks. The creepy guys in suits still hit me at the same time my gunshot lands (superweird) but I'll get it at one point.

Turns out I was doing the chalice thing but was also able to continue the Yharnam mission. I had no idea there was an extra door at Cathedral Ward. I do recall Gehrman saying something about Oedon, and I looked but didnt find it. After dying to spoiler fiery hound in the chalice dungeon a couple times I decided to google. Found the doorway. Met Vicor Amelia. She tears me apart.

Also changed my build up and now I'm rocking the hammer. Instant fav!

That door only opens after a certain point, so you didn't technically miss it. I think it's after your third boss fight? Which is usually Bloodstarved Beast

The creepy guys with staffs are called Doctors, and I think they give everyone trouble to start out with. Their timing may be a little different. I still take hits from them once in a while. But they're also pretty slow so it's not hard to rally your health back by immediately attacking them after

On that note though, it wasn't common knowledge when the game first came out, but just to let you know, when you kill an enemy, they have their death animation before they fall down, and you can continue to rally back health during that animation. So feel free to beat up the dead as they are dying if you are still missing health that you can get back

The hammer is a great weapon, it rips up enemy poise, but being so slow it takes a bit more finesse in its timing. But having a straight sword option is great as it's such a versatile weapon. You get a couple of them in the game, and it's such a reliable alternative to a main weapon

And yeah, Amelia seems a lot different from Cleric and Bloodstarved. She always gave me trouble with my first times with each character. But you eventually get used to it. Again, you wanna get up her butt, and try not to get too concerned when you can't see your character through all the fur lol..

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Originally Posted by Vyk

That door only opens after a certain point, so you didn't technically miss it. I think it's after your third boss fight? Which is usually Bloodstarved Beast

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I'm pretty sure it's just always after you kill the BSB. My 3rd boss was Amelia and it didn't open then.

I played the entire game without meaningfully using parries or viscerals; but I got the Whirligig Saw probably unreasonably early and that weapon is some OP trout.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

I played the entire game without meaningfully using parries or viscerals; but I got the Whirligig Saw probably unreasonably early and that weapon is some OP trout.

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:Oo: did you just run and dodge until you got it?? (SPOILER)Pretty sure they suggest level 80+ before even going to the DLC, let alone making meaningful enough progress to get that thing

I didn't fight stuff, but I am an expert at exploring Souls zones without being hit at this point (as long as I'm not trying to kill anything). I got all the weapons pre-boss in the DLC basically as soon as I discovered the DLC. Came back much later to actually fight things.

Use Numbing Mists to stop her healing, other than that, just stick to her backside like a sticker and always dodge to the left. Just about everything in the game seems to be right handed, so learning to dodge and circle to the left will help you avoid most attacks. I didn't really have much issue with Amelia like some people do, but it may have to do with me starting the Chalice Dungeon by this point so I may have had a slight level advantage. It helps this was my third Souls-style game so I was way better with maximizing a build this time around. I shudder to imagine what it will be like to go back to NG+ on Demon's Souls with my Jack of All/Master of None character build.

Yeah, the Kirkhammer is a pretty awesome weapon, though I still prefer Ludwig's Blade, but that might be due to sporting a Black Knight Sword for 90% of Dark Souls and the two-handed mode works exactly the same. The Tontrius was a surprisingly good weapon as well despite my aversion to mace style weapons.

Have you met the Crow Hunter yet?

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Use Numbing Mists to stop her healing, other than that, just stick to her backside like a sticker and always dodge to the left. Just about everything in the game seems to be right handed, so learning to dodge and circle to the left will help you avoid most attacks. I didn't really have much issue with Amelia like some people do, but it may have to do with me starting the Chalice Dungeon by this point so I may have had a slight level advantage. It helps this was my third Souls-style game so I was way better with maximizing a build this time around. I shudder to imagine what it will be like to go back to NG+ on Demon's Souls with my Jack of All/Master of None character build.

Yeah, the Kirkhammer is a pretty awesome weapon, though I still prefer Ludwig's Blade, but that might be due to sporting a Black Knight Sword for 90% of Dark Souls and the two-handed mode works exactly the same. The Tontrius was a surprisingly good weapon as well despite my aversion to mace style weapons.

Have you met the Crow Hunter yet?

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I read a message saying "nothing but hunter of hunters here". Combined with the crow armor item description showing up during loading screens I have a feeling I will be meeting this thing very soon.

Also thanks for the tips! I think I'm not doing everything super efficiently despite this being my 4th Souls-like game. I am investing everything straight away into weapon upgrades, but they've been spread over 4 different weapons cause I like to experiment with them. Levelling seems a bit more powerful here than it was in Dark Souls, mainly because armor can't be upgraded (I think?) and it's the only way to improve survivability.

Yeah, armor doesn't upgrade, but there is enough variety that it does help to switch up what you got for the task at hand. I can't remember it's name exactly, but the burnt Hunter Set was probably my favorite set.

Oh yeah, experiment with weapons because that is half the fun in this game. I used several weapons throughout my playthrough, though I never experimented with guns as much as I should have. Probably due to Bloodtinge being my least used stat, though the Chikage made me sad I didn't ump more points into it.

You probably should have met the Cro by now, but frankly, she's easy to miss since her garb makes her blend in to the background pretty easily. Her questline leads into one of the nastiest optional fights in the game.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Use Numbing Mists to stop her healing, other than that, just stick to her backside like a sticker and always dodge to the left. Just about everything in the game seems to be right handed, so learning to dodge and circle to the left will help you avoid most attacks. I didn't really have much issue with Amelia like some people do, but it may have to do with me starting the Chalice Dungeon by this point so I may have had a slight level advantage. It helps this was my third Souls-style game so I was way better with maximizing a build this time around. I shudder to imagine what it will be like to go back to NG+ on Demon's Souls with my Jack of All/Master of None character build.

Yeah, the Kirkhammer is a pretty awesome weapon, though I still prefer Ludwig's Blade, but that might be due to sporting a Black Knight Sword for 90% of Dark Souls and the two-handed mode works exactly the same. The Tontrius was a surprisingly good weapon as well despite my aversion to mace style weapons.

Have you met the Crow Hunter yet?

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Yeah, armor doesn't upgrade, but there is enough variety that it does help to switch up what you got for the task at hand. I can't remember it's name exactly, but the burnt Hunter Set was probably my favorite set.

Oh yeah, experiment with weapons because that is half the fun in this game. I used several weapons throughout my playthrough, though I never experimented with guns as much as I should have. Probably due to Bloodtinge being my least used stat, though the Chikage made me sad I didn't ump more points into it.

You probably should have met the Cro by now, but frankly, she's easy to miss since her garb makes her blend in to the background pretty easily. Her questline leads into one of the nastiest optional fights in the game.

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If she can be talked to than I'm sure I missed her. So far only one resident came out of her home, everyone else is nasty to me :(

Most of them are nasty to you. Two of them specifically will be asses to you even when you "rescue them", though I should mention that there are no happy endings in Bloodborne. Have you tried going back to the clinic at the start of the game yet?

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Most of them are nasty to you. Two of them specifically will be asses to you even when you "rescue them", though I should mention that there are no happy endings in Bloodborne. Have you tried going back to the clinic at the start of the game yet?

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Please keep it spoiler free, I couldve guesses the no happy endings part but still :ohdear:

Yea, I sent a lady there. SpoilerDoesn't seem to be fun in there!

Managed to beat spoiler Vicar Amelia and the Witch of something. Also found an old forest. I am more and more intrigued and baffled by the world design both in terms of layout and lore. Loving the fear the Night of the Hunt induces, the heavy church themes and corruption of basically everything.

Also had a glitch in spoiler the street where there are 4 people to talk to. First they responded normally but then I returned after dipping into the old forest and they all had the same talk prompted, same voice, same character, same conversation. Glitch!

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Most of them are nasty to you. Two of them specifically will be asses to you even when you "rescue them", though I should mention that there are no happy endings in Bloodborne. Have you tried going back to the clinic at the start of the game yet?

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Please keep it spoiler free, I couldve guesses the no happy endings part but still :ohdear:

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Sorry, but this is the team that does the Souls series, and it's not like that's a happy place either.

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Managed to beat spoiler Vicar Amelia and the Witch of something. Also found an old forest. I am more and more intrigued and baffled by the world design both in terms of layout and lore. Loving the fear the Night of the Hunt induces, the heavy church themes and corruption of basically everything.

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Yeah, this game has my favorite lore that From Software has done.

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Also had a glitch in spoiler the street where there are 4 people to talk to. First they responded normally but then I returned after dipping into the old forest and they all had the same talk prompted, same voice, same character, same conversation. Glitch!

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That's not a glitch...

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Most of them are nasty to you. Two of them specifically will be asses to you even when you "rescue them", though I should mention that there are no happy endings in Bloodborne. Have you tried going back to the clinic at the start of the game yet?

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Please keep it spoiler free, I couldve guesses the no happy endings part but still :ohdear:

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Sorry, but this is the team that does the Souls series, and it's not like that's a happy place either.

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Managed to beat spoiler Vicar Amelia and the Witch of something. Also found an old forest. I am more and more intrigued and baffled by the world design both in terms of layout and lore. Loving the fear the Night of the Hunt induces, the heavy church themes and corruption of basically everything.

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Yeah, this game has my favorite lore that From Software has done.

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Also had a glitch in spoiler the street where there are 4 people to talk to. First they responded normally but then I returned after dipping into the old forest and they all had the same talk prompted, same voice, same character, same conversation. Glitch!

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That's not a glitch...

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I mean it was the same character behind all 4 doors/windows. Impossible I'd say ;p

Aw, you may have missed out on one of my favorite NPCs, but she's mostly someone you'd want to befriend as a Dex character, so as someone who prefers the hammer, all you're missing is flavor, nothing substantial. So maybe next playthrough

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

That's not a glitch...

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I mean it was the same character behind all 4 doors/windows. Impossible I'd say ;p

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It still wasn't a glitch. :shifty:

How high is your insight?

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Originally Posted by Vyk

Aw, you may have missed out on one of my favorite NPCs, but she's mostly someone you'd want to befriend as a Dex character, so as someone who prefers the hammer, all you're missing is flavor, nothing substantial. So maybe next playthrough

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After WK saying she's hard to spot I did a quick google and found her still.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

That's not a glitch...

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I mean it was the same character behind all 4 doors/windows. Impossible I'd say ;p

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It still wasn't a glitch. :shifty:

How high is your insight?

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I think it's on 10 atm. Curious to see where this is going.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

That's not a glitch...

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I mean it was the same character behind all 4 doors/windows. Impossible I'd say ;p

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It still wasn't a glitch. :shifty:

How high is your insight?

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I think I see what you mean now. I also talked to a chair. I have a feeling higher insight means you see things a little differently. /Spoiler Met Patches, or at least I think it's him. Did some exploring and ended up in all kinds of weird places. All 4 awaken stones are now lit up. I got lots of exploring to do. Enemies definitely stepped it up a notch.

Also glorious 2 handed Kirk Hammer forward+R2 attack, I wish I had used you sooner.

Yeah, insight is one of my favorite mechanics in the game, though it does raise lower your resistance to frenzy (crazy/madness in the original Japanese) so be careful. Frenzy is pretty much like blood loss in Souls.

Insight annoys me because it's such a wasted mechanic. It does virtually nothing in the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Yeah, insight is one of my favorite mechanics in the game, though it does raise lower your resistance to frenzy (crazy/madness in the original Japanese) so be careful. Frenzy is pretty much like blood loss in Souls.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

Insight annoys me because it's such a wasted mechanic. It does virtually nothing in the entire game.

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Two very different opinions on this! Cant wait to find out more. I hope this game is like Dark Souls, it's like finishing it once only means the beginning of it all.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

Insight annoys me because it's such a wasted mechanic. It does virtually nothing in the entire game.

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Um...

don't read this Pete for President

• Insight makes certain enemies more difficult by letting them gain new moves or powered up attacks
• Is tied to your Frenzy resistance
• Allows you to see the Amygdalas in Cathedral Ward as well as changes the music in the Hunter's Dream, not to mention some new dialogue from Gerhiam and The Doll
• Is used as a currency in the Hunter's Dream
• Ties into the Lovecraftian theme of greater understanding of the eldritch world leads to madness

I mean frankly, I felt Humanity was a more wasted stat in DS. For something that is suppose to have great significance in the story, it does little in the game proper that isn't attached to my least favorite features in the series (grinding and multiplayer). I mean at least insight makes sense mechanically speaking. Dark Souls never bothers to explain why being humanity is necessary for most of it's gameplay functions (barring the lighting of bonfires mind you) and is basically just a left over mechanic from Demon's Souls arbitrary Soul/Human form, which didn't make much sense in that game either.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

don't read this Pete for President

• Insight makes certain enemies more difficult by letting them gain new moves or powered up attacks
  
  Not actually even true
  
  
• Is tied to your Frenzy resistance
  
  Barely relevant, tiny effect
  
  
• Allows you to see the Amygdalas in Cathedral Ward as well as changes the music in the Hunter's Dream, not to mention some new dialogue from Gerhiam and The Doll
  
  This is literally the one real thing it does, so that's good
  
  
• Is used as a currency in the Hunter's Dream
  
  Yes, it's a currency, which has nothing to do with the concept
  
  
• Ties into the Lovecraftian theme of greater understanding of the eldritch world leads to madness
  
  It would if it was actually used for anything, but it isn't

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Beat spoiler a lightning beast skeleton thing. Venturing onwards into forbidden forest.

Thanks for spoiler warnings guys :) won't read!

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

don't read this Pete for President

• Insight makes certain enemies more difficult by letting them gain new moves or powered up attacks
  
  Not actually even true
  
  
• Is tied to your Frenzy resistance
  
  Barely relevant, tiny effect
  
  
• Allows you to see the Amygdalas in Cathedral Ward as well as changes the music in the Hunter's Dream, not to mention some new dialogue from Gerhiam and The Doll
  
  This is literally the one real thing it does, so that's good
  
  
• Is used as a currency in the Hunter's Dream
  
  Yes, it's a currency, which has nothing to do with the concept
  
  
• Ties into the Lovecraftian theme of greater understanding of the eldritch world leads to madness
  
  It would if it was actually used for anything, but it isn't

---

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(SPOILER) The doctors get new moves, the witch things in the forest don't appear with low insight, they also don't appear in the boss fight with zero insight, and I've noticed pretty substantial frenzy resistance at lower insight, especially with certain equipment.

I'm one who appreciates what they tried to do with it

Frenzy as a legitimate threat to your well-being occurs perhaps twice in the entire game, and zero mandatory times.

Other than that small impact on Frenzy resist, there is literally 0 difference between 15 and 99 Insight.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

don't read this Pete for President

• Insight makes certain enemies more difficult by letting them gain new moves or powered up attacks
  
  Not actually even true

Excpet it actually charges up a few enemies and gives them new moves, making you have to change up some of your tactics for dealing with them. It also affects the Witches of Hemlick fight since 0 Insight can make the fight ridiculously easy because they can't summon their guards anymore.

• Is tied to your Frenzy resistance
  
  Barely relevant, tiny effect

Except in the Nightmare Realm where Frenzy makes the Winter Lanterns a major threat and high enough insight can make the Nightmare of Mensis a real bitch to deal with. The second area has to be visited as well.

Also, many of the new abilities the enemies get cause Frenzy, not to mention the Byrgenworth Fly enemies, the Pig Enemies, Ebriatas has a fenzy causing move and the Bloodletter weapons causes Frenzy build-up as well. So it shows up quite a bit. Frankly, I feel Fast Poison was a more worthless stat.

• Allows you to see the Amygdalas in Cathedral Ward as well as changes the music in the Hunter's Dream, not to mention some new dialogue from Gerhiam and The Doll
  
  This is literally the one real thing it does, so that's good

Glad we agree it was awesome.

• Is used as a currency in the Hunter's Dream
  
  Yes, it's a currency, which has nothing to do with the concept

Fair enough

• Ties into the Lovecraftian theme of greater understanding of the eldritch world leads to madness
  
  It would if it was actually used for anything, but it isn't

You don't read a lot of Lovecraft do you? See point one and two, the more knowledge you gain, the more you can see the world for what it really is, which is a prime tenant of Lovecraft literature. The stories often centering around normal people living normal lives, only to discover the sinister nature of reality which forever changes their way of comprehending the world and leads to madness. Likewise, your own character begins to witness things that weren't there before and can eventually succumb to the madness itself if you let them. So it's honestly a perfect video game representation of Lovecraft lore and themes.

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No, it WOULD be a perfect representation, IF it actually did anything. Which it doesn't.

15 Insight and 99 Insight are literally 100% identical in terms of "what you can see" after the midway point of the game.

Also, unrelated aside, the Witches of Hemwick fight is laughably easy with any level of Insight and I can't imagine dying there even a single time.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

No, it WOULD be a perfect representation, IF it actually did anything. Which it doesn't.

15 Insight and 99 Insight are literally 100% identical in terms of "what you can see" after the midway point of the game.

Also, unrelated aside, the Witches of Hemwick fight is laughably easy with any level of Insight and I can't imagine dying there even a single time.

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I died first time around. Not to the witches but to the creeps when I actually thought they were a threat. Turns out you can just ignore them.

Yeah, it wasn't implemented to nearly the fullest it could have been. I think it was still a great idea, but only partially fleshed out. I was always hoping there were more stages to it. But it wasn't completely worthless, though it probably should have been topped out at 40 rather than 99, but that's probably for currency and multiplayer reasons, so you have plenty of stuff to use. And yeah, the witch fight was probably one of the worse fights to implement the idea on. But it was still a neat idea

I guess since it didn't take away from the game at all, and wanting it to be more didn't hamper my experience, I don't have any actual problem with it. If there's ever a Bloodborne 2, I hope they do more with it

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

No, it WOULD be a perfect representation, IF it actually did anything. Which it doesn't.

15 Insight and 99 Insight are literally 100% identical in terms of "what you can see" after the midway point of the game.

Also, unrelated aside, the Witches of Hemwick fight is laughably easy with any level of Insight and I can't imagine dying there even a single time.

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Calm down dude, nothing here to get heated up about, but I still feel that Insight does do a bit more than you think it does.

all the crazy things insight does at different levels.
1 - Bath Messenger's become available
-Beckoning Bell is given
- Doll comes to life
- Mad Ones Spawn at Hemwick Witch fight
15 - Church Doctors gain buffs to their weapons and additional moves
- Gehrman will talk in his sleep
- Mad Ones will spawn in predetermined places throughout Hemwick Charnal Lane
30 -Winter Lanterns will begin to sing in an off key tone from a distance.
40 - Lesser Amygdala's can be seen throughout Cathedral Ward before Blood Moon Phase
50 - New Song will play in Hunter's Dream before Blood Moon Phase
60 - Mergo's cry can now be heard throughout the town, until you kill Mergo's Wet Nurse.

• You can buy a lot of trout with it.
• You use it to summon allies in multiplayer.
• It also makes Frenzy a bigger pain, so if you want to play a challenge mode, then you can add having 99 Insight to make certain parts harder for you.

I don't really know what you were hoping for, either some glorious ending or for the stat to scale with a weapon, but frankly, I feel it was a pretty snazzy mechanic and still has some cool potential to grow. Even if they were little things, the lore of this game is what brings me here, so the fact insight adds to that makes it pretty special imho. It still fits well with the Lovecraftian themes of "experiencing the true world" and the madness it brings.

I also liked that it basically served as a better version of the Humanity stat from DS, which I always felt was more trouble than it was worth. Insight actually did some cool things in the game's world besides being a pure mechanical stat with some vague lore behind it. So I've always seen it as an interesting evolution of a concept and one I feel Bloodborne utilized better.

I would be curious to know how you feel it could be improved beyond netting you more things after 60 Insight.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

the meaningful things insight does at different levels.
1 - Bath Messenger's become available
-Beckoning Bell is given
- Doll comes to life
- Mad Ones Spawn at Hemwick Witch fight
15 - Church Doctors gain buffs to their weapons and additional moves
- Mad Ones will spawn in predetermined places throughout Hemwick Charnal Lane

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I'm at Byrgenwyrth. There's some weird things going on here.

Byrgenworth is pretty much ground zero for all of the weird trout going on in Bloodborne.

@Spuuky: We're just going to have to agree to disagree it seems.

Im fighting spoiler spider Rom. Got him to 1/3 multiple times but somehow i always get stunlocked near the end. Am i crazy or is Damian the summon useless in that fight?

Both summons are kind of useless beyond getting the enemy's attention. In fact, most of the A.I. companions are only really good for a distraction. If the A.I. roulewtte works out for you, you can sometimes get the underlings to focus on them while you deal with Rom.

I would suggest trying to kill all of her underlings first so you're less likely to get gang raped by the lot of them. Also if you have a Lightning Paper, use it on your weapon for extra damage. Blunt weapons also work, so use the Kirkhammer's two-handed form as well. Rom is considered to be the toughest non-optional fight in the game, but some players tend to have an easier time than others. I find that patience in clearing out the minions before going for the kill works best, especially in the last stretch of the fight.

You can't really get hit by the little spiders or you will lose. I didn't really have an issue dodging them but it does seem that patiently killing them is a more common and popular strategy.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Both summons are kind of useless beyond getting the enemy's attention. In fact, most of the A.I. companions are only really good for a distraction. If the A.I. roulewtte works out for you, you can sometimes get the underlings to focus on them while you deal with Rom.

I would suggest trying to kill all of her underlings first so you're less likely to get gang raped by the lot of them. Also if you have a Lightning Paper, use it on your weapon for extra damage. Blunt weapons also work, so use the Kirkhammer's two-handed form as well. Rom is considered to be the toughest non-optional fight in the game, but some players tend to have an easier time than others. I find that patience in clearing out the minions before going for the kill works best, especially in the last stretch of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

You can't really get hit by the little spiders or you will lose. I didn't really have an issue dodging them but it does seem that patiently killing them is a more common and popular strategy.

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Thanks guys! I opted for bringing as many vials as I could and doing a hit and run tactic, sprinting past the little spiders, get 2-3 hits in, roll away. I died just after landing the finishing blow on Rom.

Ventured into spoiler unseen village #2. Same map but different things going on makes its purpose very confusing for now but i havent cleared it yet. Here's some more critique for the game: i know we just whacked the spider and the moon is red and things should be difficult now, but the game goes all dark souls 2 on us with enemies in locations just to have them there rather than to create a specific engagement highlighting a certain mechanic of the game or strategy. Yes, more of them makes it harder, but its a lazy mans difficulty. Result: im sprinting past everything because it works. Also smurf infinite spawning enemies, the occasions where infinite spawn makes good game design is extremely rare and unseen village is not one of them. Its a shame because Byrgenwerth was so simple and small but still so fun to explore and now this mess follows it up.

To be fair, the enemies are not completely infinite spawning. There are certain enemies that spawn the enemies (and make them more powerful) so the gimmick is to find them and eliminate them to make the area less annoying. Despite that apologist sentiment, I agree that Unseen Village Redux was a bit of a kick to the teeth after Byrgenworth.

In other parts of the game. How many people have you rescued? There are a few places I've wondered if you found yet as well.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

To be fair, the enemies are not completely infinite spawning. There are certain enemies that spawn the enemies (and make them more powerful) so the gimmick is to find them and eliminate them to make the area less annoying. Despite that apologist sentiment, I agree that Unseen Village Redux was a bit of a kick to the teeth after Byrgenworth.

In other parts of the game. How many people have you rescued? There are a few places I've wondered if you found yet as well.

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Not many i think :p i checked the doors in Yharnam regularly at first but after the same prompts every time i kinda gave up. spoiler i rescued the unfriendly old hag and the bandage guy who probably killed her, then the church lady who gives out blood. Last time i checked she was still alive. I sent the hooker and her neighbour to the clinic to which i have to admit only found the backdoor while googling a map when i got superlost in forbidden woods. Then i found out what they got turned into. Super intriguing stuff!

Edit: Spoiler I expected the bandage guy to do some murdering but Iosefka doing dark things definitely caught me by surprise after sending some folks there. Props Miyazaki!

Yeah, I really liked the whole twist with the Oedon Chapel and Isofeka Clinic stuff. It will be interesting to see which ending you get.

Are you thinking about getting the DLC?

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Yeah, I really liked the whole twist with the Oedon Chapel and Isofeka Clinic stuff. It will be interesting to see which ending you get.

Are you thinking about getting the DLC?

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I'm curious too. I dont think I'll get the DLC just yet as I have this PS4 i'm borrowing only for a couple more days. I'm not even sure whether I'll be able to finish the game in time!

Progress I made friends with Gatling Gun Guy but then thought 'hey I'm not sure I went up this ladder yet' and killed a beast and made my new friend hostile again. Then I killed him! Served him right for shooting at me in the first place. Then I checked on Church Lady but she got killed so I fought Bandage Murderer and slayed him after he wooped me a couple times. Then I wanted to teleport to Grand Cathedral but it didnt work so I checked it out and Crow Lady wooped me there. Back to Unseen Village where I sprinted through the whole thing (cause smurf all these enemies) collecting treasure and I met the boss. Bell Lady shot me dead with fire. Good to see Skeleton Dog (dark souls 1) make it's return in this game. All in all some pretty painful times in Yharnam.

Yeah,Djura will be friendly if you approach him from the back entrance and talk to him, but aggro's if you attack him or any beast in the area. On the brightside, you unlocked his gear in the Hunter's Dream.

Eileen the Crow has an interesting quest-line that's easy to miss. If you screw up the order, you fight her instead of her normal end, which involves one of the nastier Hunter fights in the game.

The Beggar is Bloodborne's version of Yurt the Silent. He'll kill every NPC you save until you uncover his true identity and kill him... or just send him to Isofeka's Clinic and never worry about him again.

Barring a bunch of optional stuff you probably missed, you're not terribly far from the end. Bloodborne is pretty short compared to Dark Souls. Did you ever find the real Hunter's Workshop?

Shame you won't get a chance to play the DLC but totally understandable. Barring the pain in the ass fight with Laurence, it has some of m,y favorite boss battles in the game. The Hunter's Nightmare is also just cool conceptually and has some great lore with it.

The DLC is much harder than the main game, and has much better boss fights.

You're about to go to probably the most intense area of the game. Some might argue it's the cheapest. Prepare your mind and body

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Originally Posted by Vyk

You're about to go to probably the most intense area of the game. Some might argue it's the cheapest. Prepare your mind and body

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I may have met the final boss? I'm not sure. SpoilerI took a coach to Cainhurst thanks to a letter found at the Clinic and I met the Queen. I did not survive for long. I liked the area. Smurf the Nightmare Frontier. What this game doesn't do well is open maps like Forbidden Woods and Nightmare Frontier. The confrontations with enemies are kinda stale because there's little terrain advantages/disadvantages and despite being open these areas are cluttered and exits (even the non-secret ones) are hard to find. The hallway stairway corridor street designs work way better IMO.

It wasnt the final boss! Wasnt even a queen i guess but thats messages messing with my head. I did beat Micholash and thoroughly enjoyed that fight!

Once you survive getting off the front lawn, Cainhurst is one of my favorite places in Bloodborne, still blows my mind it's an optional zone as well. I enjoyed the boss battle there as well.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Once you survive getting off the front lawn, Cainhurst is one of my favorite places in Bloodborne, still blows my mind it's an optional zone as well. I enjoyed the boss battle there as well.

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I really thought it was the final area haha!

No, but it would have made a pretty good one. Same with the Fishing Village from the DLC.

Final Boss time i think! He's tough!!

Edit: (SPOILER) So I tried Gehrman like 10 times and cant get him below half health. Any tips?

Become a parry god

It's really more one of those things where you have to contain yourself in a frantic situation. Our instinct is to just mash dodge, but that only barely helps. You have to learn to control yourself and choose to dodge, once, in a direction, at a specific time

Probably a good time to point out again, that dodging backwards is probably a pretty bad idea

Yeah, dodge to your left during his attacks and mainly counter him with Parry. He's a lot like Lord Gwyn where he's super aggressive with mad combos but becomes a bit of a cakewalk once you get the parry timing down.

Cool im gonna try again! Anyone willing to help for coop by any chance? I have to return the ps4 to my friend tomorrow so it's last chance :P

I wish I could but I don't have a PSN+ account so I never was able to utilize the online features of the game. :(

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I wish I could but I don't have a PSN+ account so I never was able to utilize the online features of the game. :(

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Could've been fun! I haven't summoned any other players for bosses but I did make use of NPC summons. I co-oped a couple times to get certain boss fights down. It makes things so much easier I think.

Good news is that I just beat the guy solo! So tense. (SPOILER) So this thing came down and swallowed me and now I'm in Gehrman's wheelchair. I think this one's ending is kinda lame. Can't wait to discover the others and I wish I could do another playthrough, but I think I'll just read up on it and watch them on youtube. When I first finished Dark Souls the game didn't really start until after finishing Gwyn. That's when I went back for all the stuff and missed and discovered the most amazing world and characters. I'm kinda hoping Bloodborne does the same for me. I must've missed so many things! I also really want to get more involved in Arcane.

Final stats:
Vit: 29
End: 24
Str: 32-ish
Skill: 20
BT: 6?
Arcane: 16

Edit: as for my first playthrough with this game right meow I'd say it's phenomenal, damn near perfect and a really awesome experience. I'll probably write a full on verdict at some point.

Just a friendly FYI and I'm not sure if it's because I previously had plus or if it's just the way it is but for the months I didn't have plus I still played this and souls with my girlfriend. I don't think they need plus. I didn't anyway. But she did. And we have the same IP so it may have confused their network. But just saying. Might not need plus to enjoy online options

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I wish I could but I don't have a PSN+ account so I never was able to utilize the online features of the game. :(

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Could've been fun! I haven't summoned any other players for bosses but I did make use of NPC summons. I co-oped a couple times to get certain boss fights down. It makes things so much easier I think.

Good news is that I just beat the guy solo! So tense. (SPOILER) So this thing came down and swallowed me and now I'm in Gehrman's wheelchair. I think this one's ending is kinda lame. Can't wait to discover the others and I wish I could do another playthrough, but I think I'll just read up on it and watch them on youtube. When I first finished Dark Souls the game didn't really start until after finishing Gwyn. That's when I went back for all the stuff and missed and discovered the most amazing world and characters. I'm kinda hoping Bloodborne does the same for me. I must've missed so many things! I also really want to get more involved in Arcane.

Final stats:
Vit: 29
End: 24
Str: 32-ish
Skill: 20
BT: 6?
Arcane: 16

Edit: as for my first playthrough with this game right meow I'd say it's phenomenal, damn near perfect and a really awesome experience. I'll probably write a full on verdict at some point.

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Would have been super fun, some of my best memories with Dark Souls was helping players deal with the Capra Demon.

I'm glad you enjoyed it and wouldn't be surprised if you missed something here and there, the game has a lot of secrets and interesting quest-lines. You also purchase Gehrnam's Scythe weapon when you load your new data.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Pete for President

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I wish I could but I don't have a PSN+ account so I never was able to utilize the online features of the game. :(

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Could've been fun! I haven't summoned any other players for bosses but I did make use of NPC summons. I co-oped a couple times to get certain boss fights down. It makes things so much easier I think.

Good news is that I just beat the guy solo! So tense. (SPOILER) So this thing came down and swallowed me and now I'm in Gehrman's wheelchair. I think this one's ending is kinda lame. Can't wait to discover the others and I wish I could do another playthrough, but I think I'll just read up on it and watch them on youtube. When I first finished Dark Souls the game didn't really start until after finishing Gwyn. That's when I went back for all the stuff and missed and discovered the most amazing world and characters. I'm kinda hoping Bloodborne does the same for me. I must've missed so many things! I also really want to get more involved in Arcane.

Final stats:
Vit: 29
End: 24
Str: 32-ish
Skill: 20
BT: 6?
Arcane: 16

Edit: as for my first playthrough with this game right meow I'd say it's phenomenal, damn near perfect and a really awesome experience. I'll probably write a full on verdict at some point.

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Would have been super fun, some of my best memories with Dark Souls was helping players deal with the Capra Demon.

I'm glad you enjoyed it and wouldn't be surprised if you missed something here and there, the game has a lot of secrets and interesting quest-lines. You also purchase Gehrnam's Scythe weapon when you load your new data.

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Been watching some Vaatividya about the story and characters. I totally missed the little girl's house even though I must've passed it countless times. I also totally forgot about the dude close to the lantern in central Yharnam. I did find it weird when the random beast showed up there. The church and it's hunter departments are really intriguing and I love the lore around them. Sad to admit I never found the original workshop :(

Can now safely tell you Eileen is my fave and gives access to awesome dex weapons

Vaatividya does some great videos about this game. I especially love his insight videos. To be fair, the path to the real workshop is actually a bit difficult to find, you would either need to know where to go or just be extremely lucky to stumble upon it. The best part of the place is you get one of the best hunter tools there, the Hunter's Bone, which allows you to flash step when you dodge, increasing your dodge window. Several of the nastiest hunter enemies in the game use this item, including the "Cainhurst Rogue Hunter" from Eileen's quest, Gerhnam, and Maria.

Just got the official artworks in the mail today. I had actually forgotten I'd pre-ordered it months ago. Pleasant surprise. And learned that the trench coat guys outside Cathedral Ward are not doctors like the community has called them. And finally learned the name of those crazy fly things in Bergynwerth

But really, the book exactly what I was hoping, and it's amazing to see how close the concept art was. The game designers did a phenomenal job capturing this stuff in game. There's barely any difference in most cases

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Originally Posted by Vyk

Just got the official artworks in the mail today. I had actually forgotten I'd pre-ordered it months ago. Pleasant surprise. And learned that the trench coat guys outside Cathedral Ward are not doctors like the community has called them. And finally learned the name of those crazy fly things in Bergynwerth

But really, the book exactly what I was hoping, and it's amazing to see how close the concept art was. The game designers did a phenomenal job capturing this stuff in game. There's barely any difference in most cases

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What are the Trenchcoat guys called? :o

I've given this game some more thought and came to the conclusion that it's my favourite game in years, probably since Dark Souls :P I love the heavy religious theme but also the psychedelicness of it all. The big eldritch creature things are imo a little bit strange designed and I dont like them, but the concept of the Great Ones having transcended into another plane by thought is really cool, especially with how Master Willem and Laurence tried to join them. Also I love how dark the church hunters actually are; they are not heroes, they are hitmen doing dirty work. So cool.

I've been thinking and I remember a lot of people saying Bloodborne is based on Victorian age London but I actually think there's just as many Belgian references.

For instance Belgium speaks both Flamish (a form of Dutch) and French. Willem (Master Willem) is a classic Dutch/Flamish name, while Gascoigne and Laurence are classic French names.

Also check out this architecture from the city of Leuven:

Attachment 72823

I think most people just saw the hats and thought "England" but it's obvious the team used several inspirations across Europe.

Yea that makes sense.

I'm still confused about how beasthood and the chalice dungeons work.

Yeah, my immediate thought was the cobbled streets of London in like Sherlock Holmes or Jack the Ripper days. But I never heard anything official that that was what they were going for. It's just the relation my mind made. I have no idea how the world looked to the Dutch or French of that time. But that does make a lot more sense, considering the naming conventions and architecture. So good point there

Sorry for not having been around for a minute. Life at work got hectic and I got exhausted and just wanted to collapse during my free time. So I hadn't touched my Artworks book in a while or been on the forum much

But the trench coat guys were always called doctors in all the walkthroughs I read at the time, but the artbook calls them black and white church servants