What do you want from EoFF?

What with the recent announcements (thank you again for your hard work, Bubba and Pumpkin), I thought I'd open up some conversation amongst the memberbase about the community and moving forward.

I'm sure we are all committed to making sure EoFF is as good a place as can be for those of you who stop by here every day, and I guess I'm just looking for what that looks like for you all, and what you want from EoFF. With the number of staff falling, I would like to look at reinforcing these aspects for you, before we branch out into experimental ideas.

I've listed a few things that come to mind for me:

- More events? What kinds of events would you be interested in? Don't forget that it's not just staff who can run events, so if you've got any ideas - go nuts!
- Bring back the temporary themed subforum? What topics would you be interested in?
- Gaming weekends? Let's get some members together and play some video games? Which games would you be interested in playing?
- Discord Shenanigans? I am working on the quiz, so that's a thing we'll try out - but is there anything else you think we could do in the Discord server?


Yeah. Hit me with your thoughts. And if you think EoFF is perfect the way it is, that's fine. We love you just the way you are too. :love:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, a Mastodon instance :^)
https://joinmastodon.org/

EoFF has always had a great community, but to me forums just aren't natural to how I engage on the web anymore compared to other social media. Most of why I've been back is because there's been fun troutposting threads, but I'm well aware it could dry up again. Maybe some people like that, and I'm not advising shutting down the forums at all. But I think Mastodon and the like offer new tech that EoFF could really capitalize to modernize the user experience and draw people back to engage as a community.

The federation of Mastodon instances is growing pretty rapidly, and user numbers keep going up as well, as you can see here:
https://mnm.social/

The underlying tech behind Mastodon is an open standard, which is being reviewed by the W3C as an international web standard (like e-mail or HTTP):
https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/

And there are tons of mobile apps for both iOS and Android that give a simple, smooth experience similar to apps for Facebook or Twitter, but without having to deal with ads/Russian bots/troutty people you haven't talked to since high school/etc.

I've been running my own instance for a few months now and really enjoy the experience, but I don't think my personal deployment is ever going to attract people the way an EoFF Social would. But I think it actively promoted, a lot of people would embrace an EoFF-specific social network on top of their existing suite of accounts.

If you guys have any questions about it, I'm more than happy to answer them. And feel free to do a test account on my instance; all of your user data is portable between instances and accounts can be deleted. It's a technology that I find super exciting and really want to keep spreading the word.

From EoFF I'm looking for good people and good discussion. I'll come here no matter what you guys do, so I guess what matters to me is how attractive you make this place for others to join and stay with the community so that it stays active and not a ghost town.

Attracting new members is one of the keys. I feel like EoFF is always the best when there is a constant flow of new members. Like Hsu said, it is difficult to do this with forums since people tend to do their internetting in a variety of different ways these days. The site's theme of Final Fantasy is also not as interesting as it once was since new releases in the series have been slow, and the series is no longer the pinnacle of the genre either. Some of the best discussion over the years has nothing to do with FF, but how do we initially attract the quirky personalities that make this place so cool? Many of us have come in through the front site or chat or some other FF-related search and I have no idea if that is still how it works. Perhaps we branch out through popular social media sites to attract people or ask any recent new members how they found us.

I wonder if it is time to downplay the FF theme and rebrand this place for what it has been for years: a home for nerds. Most of us here like FF and many still discuss it, but general RPGs, games, media, and other discussion has always dominated the 'community' aspect of this site and is why many of us still come here. Some kind of rebrand that keeps the FF roots but makes it clear that this can be your home may help draw like minds together like it has for years. All of you guys have been what keeps me here, not a game series. There's got to be a way to showcase that.

I do also like the events here. They don't even have to be forum events or FF themed events. That Pokemon tournament Fynn and Skyblade did was really fun and we should do another. Mafia is also very fun though sadly I don't really have the time for it anymore. The RP forum was also the peak of activity and I'm sure there are still people out there with a cross section of FF love and a desire to RP. You need a cheerleader/marketer for that though.

I suggest we market this place with amazing jokes across our social media :shifty:

If we do a re-brand, we'd definitely have to keep the same forum database rather than set up shop elsewhere. I think many people come here out of habit, judging from the success (or lack thereof) of spin off forums over the years. Break the habit and it's goodbye Piccadilly, farewell Leicester Square.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

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The site's theme of Final Fantasy is also not as interesting as it once was since new releases in the series have been slow, and the series is no longer the pinnacle of the genre either. Some of the best discussion over the years has nothing to do with FF, but how do we initially attract the quirky personalities that make this place so cool?
...
Some kind of rebrand that keeps the FF roots but makes it clear that this can be your home may help draw like minds together like it has for years. All of you guys have been what keeps me here, not a game series. There's got to be a way to showcase that.

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I agree with everything you said, but especially these points. A while back there was the short-lived OMG My Game but I think it came at a bad time. But yeah, ultimately EoFF has always just been a hangout for nice and interesting people with low tolerance for jerks. The main problem is that people's tech preferences have changed. I think if you can't give people a good mobile experience, you're alienating a lot of potential new users.

Part of my Mastodon suggestion is because it addresses a lot of the technology and community-focus issues, and also has an "early adopter" bonus right now. EoFF got its early momentum as a Final Fantasy EZBoard in '99, before they became a dime a dozen. I think to keep that up you have to stay up with where your potential audience is moving. I think moving to Discord was a really good move in that sense, though obviously not everyone wants to hang out in chat rooms necessarily.

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If we do a re-brand, we'd definitely have to keep the same forum database rather than set up shop elsewhere. I think many people come here out of habit, judging from the success (or lack thereof) of spin off forums over the years. Break the habit and it's goodbye Piccadilly, farewell Leicester Square.

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I wouldn't nix the forums ever, really, as long as vBulletin stays around. But I think you could probably re-organize with a lower emphasis on FF and engagement wouldn't deteriorate so bad (ie hiding the FF stuff as subforums or something)

Yes, please do not prune (dun dun dun!) the database. Our lovely forums database is this place. By rebrand I just meant as a marketing tool to get people to come here. Branch out into other areas in the interest of driving them to the site. Forums can still be popular (I have seen some that are still as active as, say, EoFF circa 2008), but the topics need to stay relevant.

It is challenging to do it this way because you really do need a hook. FF was our hook for so long and it still occasionally works but clearly not as well as it used to. Honestly, you just need to get people here. Once they see this little corner is actually something special they will have drunk the kool aid. For example, we just had a new member who was shocked at how little we hate each other! The (relative) lack of jerks in an interweb full of jerks is the best thing EoFF has going.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

The (relative) lack of jerks in an interweb full of jerks is the best thing EoFF has going.

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Yeah I definitely agree with this.

My main hang up with switching away from FF is that while the community is why people stay, FF is why they join. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I can't see many people wanting to join a non descript forum in 2018, or even find it. There is also still a little community "south of the border" in the FF forums, and it would be a shame to lose that.

Shoeberto is right on the money when it comes to technology, switching IRC for Discord was one of the best changes EoFF has made in the past few years. If Mastodon is the Next Big Thing we'd definitely do well to get ahead of the curve, but I think it depends on how many young people are using something.

We mostly joined as dumbass teenagers because forums and message boards were all we had. I feel like EoFF and communities like this are built by young people in high school or college with mountains of free time. When was the last time we had teenagers join and stick around? And, well, wouldn't it be ever so slightly weird now with all of us in our late 20's/early 30's for that to happen? Do I really want to interact with teens now that I'm not one myself? I'm not going anywhere with this, I'm just thought dumping.

That last paragraph is what I've thought for years now. Less the it would be weird interacting with them, and more the why would they stick around when the place feels closer to a retirement home for old members who've grown comfortable than to a place where people can find others with similar experiences and share them.

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Originally Posted by Jinx

While I like the idea of becoming a more general RPG/game focus site, I think you all need to accept that message boards are dying.

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Oh yeah you're definitely right and I don't think anyone would disagree. There's no magic bullet that's suddenly going to bring about the good ol' days again. I guess I'm thinking more in terms of what can be done to slow down the inevitable decline and get as much out of the old place while it's still here.

Also thinking about it, I came to EoFF because I needed help with FFV and FFX. If I need help with an FF game now I don't even think about making a thread here, I just have a look at the massive reddit communities. I made a thread on Dissidia Opera Omnia which is my current FF obsession but hardly anyone here even touches it. Or in other words, maybe losing the FF aspect isn't so bad if there isn't even so much to lose in the first place. idk.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

I guess I'm thinking more in terms of what can be done to slow down the inevitable decline and get as much out of the old place while it's still here.

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This pretty much nails my intention in creating this thread. It's not about encouraging people to join EoFF (not that newbies aren't good!), it's about making the most of EoFF for the people who are already here. Whether you joined yesterday, or have been here for years - you're here.

I suppose to put it in a bit of perspective, 33 members have viewed this thread. That's not an insignificant number. So people are still here, and we want to make EoFF a good experience until such a time that people are no longer here.

I'm going to say something that may be controversial but devils advocate etc...

If message boards are dying (they are) and EoFF is undergoing a slow decline (which it is). When will it become too cost inefficient for BoB to continue to support the forums? Or when would it be better to end the slow decline by giving the place the viking funeral it will surely have earnt? (Yes, Daniel Towns, this does mean we expect a video of your PC on fire. I don't care if it's not the server to the forums your PC is the home of EoFF in our hearts)

On the flip side (yes double post because I think breaking away from the devils advocate warrants this).

I just want EoFF to continue to be the home of awesome it is. I disappear and come back but frankly, this place is a bit like home on the internet for me. I've been around so long now I feel like old Bootstrap Bill Turner on The Flying Dutchman

Basically.

Really, the only thing I want from this place is for it to stay. I don’t care if we’re getting more members or not, my friebds are here and this is my home

Well I for one am glad EoFF is still around and would be sad to see it go, so that's all I want from the forums. I've made a lot of good friends here that I've met irl, and I'll always be grateful to this place for that.
I have no ideas of my own, but I hope something can be done to give it a little renaissance, even if it's just for a short while.

take db offline and send physical copies to long-term posters for personal archival

memorial front page

one big irl eoff meet and wake




only show my kids my posts long after i am dead

We should have one last Ciddie's for old times sake.

Sorry, am a little bit late to the discussion. I love the people here. You're all amazing, and I wouldn't trade the times here for anything. When I started playing FFXIV, I purposefully made a character on Sarg to be in the FC, and then in a round about way ended up dragging a bunch of other people in as well. Since then, I've found myself interacting with the people there more than coming over here to the forums. With all that being said, I miss the interactivity here that get in real time in game. There just isn't as much going on here as there used to be. It's been almost a month since I logged in last, and since then there has been just a handful of updates and new threads.

Having Discord is nice, but at the moment, it's all really mashed together, and sometimes hard to follow if you get a day or two behind. The forums keep everything nice and organized. I wish that running more activites such as the ciddies, or trying to start up RP would help, but I'm not sure how well it has worked in the recent past. Maybe have an RP section in Discord would bring some people there. Or do trivia nights. Has something like that been done in discord?

Late to the party myself folks.

Biggest issue with forums nowadays is we are all older and more normalised than our crazy teen years. The newer generation just don't visit boards that much anymore. There's many a time I'd go to post something, start to write, and say 'ah maybe I'll post something later'. I've less free time now.

BTW, as long as this forum still breathes I'll be here waving the flag!

I log in here once every year or two and every time I come back I forget how much more organized old forums are than discord servers. If I want to read some pointless discussion I missed from mid 2017 I totally still can, whereas on discord I'd be completely SOL. Thats such a cool thing about forums that you really just don't see outside of like reddit (which has its own huge host of issues and is hardly a fair comparison).

What I always like about this place is that it feels really homey. This site was never so enormous that users lost their sense of identity and a lot of real genuine discussion happened because stuff like karma didn't force a huge echo-chamber. It's an absolute shame so many traditional forums are starting to fall off and I think rebranding would be wise to delay the inevitable a bit.

I'm torn between making it more of an RPG focused forum or going all in as a general gaming forum. I feel like the former would still allow us to fill a niche for people whereas the latter may be difficult to really play to its strengths. You could do stuff like a rotating monthly focus on different franchises (final fantasy, shin megami tensei, elder scrolls, etc) to keep stuff fresh and incentivize new discussion. I feel like a lot of fun events could be done with that premise.

I just don't want to see this place disappear if it could be avoided. Maybe I'm just hung up on nostalgia but being able to visit this place anytime and know I'll feel at home is an awesome feeling to me.

I'm not sure. I've just been on here for so long I always feel like I have to come back and check every once in a while. As long as I can talk about stuff I'm good.

Like some others, I'm just happy to let this be what it was when I first joined: A relatively small group of people (I was member 301 I think?) that are just hanging around talking about whatever. I'm genuinely okay with it slowly passing on - it's like an old parent. You know they're getting old, but you also need to accept that. I'm cool with avoiding any rebranding and simply enjoying the new EoFF with the people we have, and the odd stranger that stumbles across it.

Iceglow: Don't worry about payments. I'm already getting revenue from Amazon ONLY for EoFF and it only accounts for about 10-20% of EoFF's bills. The rest I already just absorb. It's a price I pay, and I don't have an problem with that. Happy if anyone wants to go buy stuff using the EoFF links though! :D

I'm not keen on a rebranding, personally, but if the people who are capable of doing it want to do it and it won't intervene with anything such as urls, site name, and the existing user experience... then I'm listening!

The biggest thing that has ever slowed the decline at EoFF has always been regular site news updates. Getting someone interested in doing that for a long time, and for free, is almost impossible these days.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Like some others, I'm just happy to let this be what it was when I first joined: A relatively small group of people (I was member 301 I think?) that are just hanging around talking about whatever. I'm genuinely okay with it slowly passing on - it's like an old parent. You know they're getting old, but you also need to accept that.

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I mostly agree with this, but the thought of EoFF dying just...I don't know man, that's a really sad thought for me, it is legitimately, as you said, comparable to an old parent or relative passing on. I know it's going to happen eventually and there's nothing I can do about it, but I'm still going to cry and be depressed over it anyway.

That's not an exaggeration either. If I woke up and saw "EoFF is dead!" when I came here tomorrow I would cry as if someone close to me died. I have so many memories, great memories, of this place. I had so many conversations with so many cool people, and the times I got banned due to my own dumbass behavior really did help me reflect on myself and become a better, more mature, and more empathetic person. I joined this place and spent an ungodly number of hours here in my early adulthood, when the world (which includes EoFF) was shaping me into who I would be, and believe me, it had a greater impact on me and my day to day life than any other website ever has. I had more experiences than I can count that I would have never had and met so many people that I would have never met, and I would be a very different man today if not for my time spent here.

I love this place.

Thankfully that will be quite some time away :D I expect to keep this place open for a while yet. Anyone who knows me knows I loathe the idea of deleting anything at all. I have backups of chat logs from #eoff going back to 2000, I think...

BoB should just close EoFF on April 1st.

People will think it's an April Fools.... but is it really?

:roll:

We would never do anything like that on April Fools :shifty:

I've been on here longer than my join date too.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

I've been on here longer than my join date too.

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Yeah, this is definitely not my first account on EoFF. I once forgot my password after moving and gaining a different internet provider and email account. Instead of just emailing an admin and asking them to fix it, I just made a new account.

BIG ASS BUMP

I think it's fine to accept that forums are dead and EoFF is all but a ghost town, but like, if BoB is okay with keeping it up and running (which he seems to be?) then might as well. Maybe consolidate some of the subforums down to streamline the place but otherwise let's all just ride the old horse into the sunset.

Yeah, I'll keep this place powered :)

Thank you, BoB. i haven't been dropping in very often, but it's good to know that EoFF IS here to drop into. My LeezaA magnet is still stuck onto my fridge (very sunfaded by now :) ) and I see it and think about this place pretty much every day. It would be a sad day if one day I tried to drop in and got a 401 instead. :cat:

I'm more of a lurker than an avid poster.

For me, I love reading other people's perspectives a lot more than I do participating in them. I might change that though and try to get more involved with the community. It'd be cool to talk about things in great detail with other people who have similar interests. Hope to see you all around the board.

Free donuts might be nice.

I've gotten a tiny knit chocobo and a few gentle fondles from this place so I'd be greedy to ask for anything more.

Is this a death thread? Neat. This place was an interesting addition to my formative years. I've met people from here, y'all were great. All I want now is a discord party sometime for old time sake. Never got around to meeting you Townsie, but by keeping this place around you affected at least one Boko greatly. See you internet Chocobos.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

Is this a death thread? Neat. This place was an interesting addition to my formative years. I've met people from here, y'all were great. All I want now is a discord party sometime for old time sake. Never got around to meeting you Townsie, but by keeping this place around you affected at least one Boko greatly. See you internet Chocobos.

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You nerd we're regularly still chatting in our discord. Don't forsake me there too you dang boko

Fire conflict.

Some more activity would be nice too. :sadtea

There is dignity with death.

Let it burn out naturally.

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Originally Posted by Freya

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

Is this a death thread? Neat. This place was an interesting addition to my formative years. I've met people from here, y'all were great. All I want now is a discord party sometime for old time sake. Never got around to meeting you Townsie, but by keeping this place around you affected at least one Boko greatly. See you internet Chocobos.

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You nerd we're regularly still chatting in our discord. Don't forsake me there too you dang boko

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I promise, nothing

All your base.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

I've met people from here, y'all were great.

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Right back atcha, punk.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

I've met people from here, y'all were great.

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Right back atcha, punk.

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Boston was on fire that week! Literally.

I'm always glad to see this place is still here. Forums may be generally 'dead' these days, but I don't think that means EoFF's inevitably done for. The social media landscape can change in big, surprising ways: it wouldn't surprise me if people eventually start to reject Facebook as their all-purpose social tool, and start looking for places that cater to niche interests again. Something like that could bring EoFF back to its previous levels of activity, I reckon. After all, who expected Discord to take off in such a big way, after IRC gradually lost prominence?

It'd be cool to see EoFF continuing to evolve and try new things, as long as it sticks around in some form :)

EoFF wasn't replaced by Facebook, it was replaced by Reddit.

Ugh, I respect Reddit's existence but I hate the layout. Replies that are further and further inlaid so you have 20 different conversations in each reply and each of those conversations inlay to 20 more further indented conversations. It's a ridiculous mess to follow and I'm not sure how and why people put up with it

I also hate the layout. It's definitely a social media site designed for special interest groups, though.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

EoFF wasn't replaced by Facebook, it was replaced by Reddit.

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I can't stand R/Final Fantasy. I lasted about a week there. Go against the hivemind and they'll vote you down to death. No thanks. People here are open-minded to opinions. :jess:

I want Loony BoB to be banned.

Unban Devil man