Standing up for FF8

I'm going to try and stand up for this classic game and defend it and show why it's not "trash ".

• " The Drawing System Sucks " !

You don't have to stand there and draw 100 Bizzard spells. You just need to draw as much spells as you desire and then escape from battle. You don't even have to kill the monster you are facing. In fact you don't even have to obey to this system as you can easily get magic from drawing monsters into cards or playing the card game and turning monster cards into items.


http://home.eyesonff.com/image/jpeg;...IyR3Qiiigh/9k=

• " The Game only focuses on Squall and Rinoa " !

Because the game is about THEIR ROMANTIC STORY. Zell, Irvine and the rest are only sideline characters to Squall and Rinoa's romantic story. They don't have the development that most RPG characters do, because it's not about *them *. Final Fantasy VIII is about Squall going from a douchebag-y teenager not caring about a thing apart from him
self to Rinoa's knight, and Rinoa going from a bratty teenager to willing to give up her freedom so others can be feel safe when *spoilers * becomes a Sorceresses. It's about their love, how their love for eachother helps each other and how they grow from a teenager to a young adult.


While the story is not about the other teen heroes, there is some focus on Zell, Irvine gets his turn during the infamous orphanage plot-twist and Selphie has her turn in Trabia Garden. There is also alot of attention on Seifer and of course- laguna and his own love story and his friends. The only one that I would say actually gets neglected is Quistis. Quistis is only used as love triangle bait and then she is pushed away.
But there is a big reason as to why the main symbol logo of Final Fantasy VIII is Squall and Rinoa embracing in warm red and orange colours.


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_15140.jpg

• " Apart from Laguna, the characters are so annoying " !

Final Fantasy VIII is guilty of doing something a bit different and that is that the game focuses on teenagers. I've seen alot of people say that they either still relate to Squall now, or they related to Squall alot as a teenager. Same with Rinoa. The characters act a bit wild and rebellious because they are teenagers. They don't know themselves yet and they are working it out. Though as the game goes on, you can see them change. Squall becomes more caring, Rinoa becomes less selfish, Zell becomes more calm and shows leadership qualities, Irvine has a moment where he shows he can be more serious, Selphies shows that her carefree and "crazy " persona is nothing really but a shell. Quistis even calls out Squall's BS at one stage, instead of just letting it pass. Final Fantasy VIII does teenagres a bit more realistically, which some may enjoy as they can relate, or some may feel frustrated by. Though fans seem to forget that the main cast is a bunch of confused seventeen year olds.


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_17365.jpg

• " Ugh, that Junction System " !

And ? What's so awful about it ? Equip a GF. Choose what you what the GF to learn. GF learns the thing. Enjoy some new gameplay. Equip, test and experiment with magics. Enjoy ! Not a torture lol. Also, as others have found out- you can also learn how to abuse it and have fun breaking the game.

http://betweenlifeandgames.com/wp-co...I_Junction.png

• " I hate Rinoa, she's annoying !"

Rinoa is a naive and rebellious seventeen year old that wants to get "revenge on daddy " at the beginning of the game. Though she's the first to have the confidence to call out on Squall's BS, and she helps him open up and become a better person, by just being honest with him and letting him know what a arsehole he can be sometimes. She does start out to be immature and reckless, but at least she tries ? She is a damsel for a massive amount of the game, but you have to remember she's the only one that isn't a trained SeeD. She was only a impulsive and very naive rebel fighter that easily could've ended up in prison during her train plan. But Rinoa is a good Final Fantasy heroine. Why ? Because she becomes less selfish as the game goes on. Would you give up your freedom and sanity to be locked up and sent into space ? So others could feel safe ?

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_19540.jpg


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_19551.jpg

• " I hate Squall, he's a ass " !

Fair enough. I love Squall. Squall is one of my favourite MC's, but Squall can be a horrible person. I feel like you either like Squall because you feel like you can relate/ did relate, or you just don't want to be around him at all. Though this isn't a bad thing, as the game cuts away to the Laguna Dreams and you can spend 20-30 mins playing as somebody more sensitive.
Final Fantasy VIII gives you a escape from the MC if you despise him.


https://kunzelman.files.wordpress.co...pg?w=640&h=480

• " The Squall/ Rinoa romance is forced and is one of the worst FF romances ever " !!

Hello ?! Did you pay attention to the game at all ? The game says many times that Squall has trust issues, fears that people are going to leave him one day, is pessimistic, pushes people away, and struggles to open up. It's a non-brainer that he doesn't open up till Rinoa is in a coma and feels like he's taken her for granted ! There is also the fact that the dance between Squall and Rinoa is more than just a cute dance. It's symbolic of their relationship. Rinoa never gives up on him and Squall stops being a dick, and opens up and dance perfectly with her. There's also Squall's face when Rinoa cutely walks away from him. Squall opened up, and Rinoa walked away. Squall's facial expressions show sadness.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_2046.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_2055.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_2057.jpg

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/pho...51-350-263.jpg

• " But the orphanage plot-twist " !

It's lighty foreshadowed with the Balamb Staff mentioning that GF can cause memory problems, and Irvine refusing to shoot Edea. And this is Final Fantasy ? IN THE SAME GAME THE SCHOOL FOR SOLDIERS CAN FLY.




This game isn't trash. Just misunderstood. That's the tea.

Squall is still best protagonist in a numbered game, just saying

So you couldn't defend yourself in my thread had to make your own. :colbert:

It has the best opening and ending to any FF game.

One of my absolute favorite things about ff viii are some of the towns and cities. I could easily see myself living in Dollet or Balamb.

Another great thing; the soundtrack. Granted, it's by nobuo so it couldn't possibly bad but I think he really captured the moods and themes extremely well. I listen to it all the time just because I like it.

And I don't care how much anyone hates this game, the ballroom scene is goddamn ADORABLE.

I really enjoyed VIII. I'm not the biggest fan of the draw system but the story was good and I really enjoyed the world.

It is my most played final fantasy!

This is obviously the superior thread.

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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf Leonhart

This is obviously the superior thread.

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pft. Yeah, okay. :roll2

The only thing that really comes close to bad about this game, in my opinion, is that "Enemies level up as you do" thing can trick you if you don't know what you're doing - you either miss it/ignore it and end up levelling up, and making your enemies stronger than they need to be, or you think that you need to not get stronger at all, and get slaughtered by the bosses that start off stronger than what you would be if you didn't get stronger before hand. Once you realise that you need to get stronger via other means, you should be okay (but I haven't done it yet, as I always cheated. ^^;)

I love this game, it is my second favorite Final Fantasy and I really love the setting and the characters, and Squall and Rinoa's relationship has always been the one that have been the most involved in - the "Eyes on Me" scene brings tears to my eyes to this day. I'm fine if people don't like them, but I never found them rushed, because I get Squall acts the way he does, and that it's more a defence mechanism than anything.

I also don't find the orphanage thing bad, it even makes sense without the Guardian Forces to me, they just needed a "supernatural" explanation to it rather than just "Well, we all kids back then, and haven't really spent that much time together since, so we forgot" which would be a more real word explanation. To be honest, the "supernatural" explanation is better, because if it was just real world memory, it would make less sense that the people who have spent a fair amount of time together, regardless of whether or not they're friends (Squall, Seifer, and Zell) don't remember growing up together, yet the newcomer from a different Garden (Irvine) does.
I also find it cool now that there's still some emotion left between the characters, even though the memory is gone, e.g. Seifer and Zell don't remember each other from the orphanage, but they still act pretty much the same to each other as they did when they were younger. It's a similar thing with Squall and Seifer - they still ended up as rivals, even though the forgot why they started fighting originally.

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Originally Posted by starlet

One of my absolute favorite things about ff viii are some of the towns and cities. I could easily see myself living in Dollet or Balamb.

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That is something that I praise Final Fantasy VIII for as well - I love how close to our world some of the locations are, and they really make me feel like I could go there one day.
The game in general feels like a version of our world with a Final Fantasy twist, in my opinion. Not only are most of the places realistic looking (we haven't quite matched Esthar, yet), but the game also has magazines, and computers with the game's version of the internet (or more accurately, an intranet), and Selphie is actually a blogger at the end of the day.

Yeah, I love FFVIII - it's one of the four Final Fantasies that give me the most inspiration, along with FFVI, FFVII, and FFX. I do agree with maybee that Quistis is the one who gets left out of the story the most, now that it's been pointed out to me...

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

I do agree with maybee that Quistis is the one who gets left out of the story the most, now that it's been pointed out to me...

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I don't see it as she was left out but they did conclude her story arc way too early on. I find it highly amusing that she has a fan club in the game!

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

The only thing that really comes close to bad about this game, in my opinion, is that "Enemies level up as you do" thing can trick you if you don't know what you're doing - you either miss it/ignore it and end up levelling up, and making your enemies stronger than they need to be, or you think that you need to not get stronger at all, and get slaughtered by the bosses that start off stronger than what you would be if you didn't get stronger before hand. Once you realise that you need to get stronger via other means, you should be okay (but I haven't done it yet, as I always cheated. ^^;)

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Forgot about that ! Though that can be defended too, as you don't really have to grind in this game or face too many monsters at all, unless it's bosses or the game faces you. LV up and LV down helps too

Though agree that this can be brutal for new players, as it's so strange for a RPG. Can't say it's a negative though, as the game takes away that horrible grinding RPGs can have.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

I love this game, it is my second favorite Final Fantasy and I really love the setting and the characters, and Squall and Rinoa's relationship has always been the one that have been the most involved in - the "Eyes on Me" scene brings tears to my eyes to this day. I'm fine if people don't like them, but I never found them rushed, because I get Squall acts the way he does, and that it's more a defence mechanism than anything.

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It only feels rushed if you weren't paying attention to Squall's inner thoughts and his chat to Rinoa on the airship.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

I also don't find the orphanage thing bad, it even makes sense without the Guardian Forces to me, they just needed a "supernatural" explanation to it rather than just "Well, we all kids back then, and haven't really spent that much time together since, so we forgot" which would be a more real word explanation. To be honest, the "supernatural" explanation is better, because if it was just real world memory, it would make less sense that the people who have spent a fair amount of time together, regardless of whether or not they're friends (Squall, Seifer, and Zell) don't remember growing up together, yet the newcomer from a different Garden (Irvine) does.
I also find it cool now that there's still some emotion left between the characters, even though the memory is gone, e.g. Seifer and Zell don't remember each other from the orphanage, but they still act pretty much the same to each other as they did when they were younger. It's a similar thing with Squall and Seifer - they still ended up as rivals, even though the forgot why they started fighting originally.

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Not a scientist, but supposedly your inner brain can remember things that you have forgotten. So FFVIII is right in that regard.

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Originally Posted by starlet

I don't see it as she was left out but they did conclude her story arc way too early on. I find it highly amusing that she has a fan club in the game!

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She's a attractive woman who uses a whip for her weapon and she teachers highschool boys, yeah, she's going to have a fanbase.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Hmmm pretty good points maybee.

HOWEVER:

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " The Drawing System Sucks " !

You don't have to stand there and draw 100 Bizzard spells. You just need to draw as much spells as you desire and then escape from battle. You don't even have to kill the monster you are facing. In fact you don't even have to obey to this system as you can easily get magic from drawing monsters into cards or playing the card game and turning monster cards into items.

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True, but when you start out you're expected to draw as many spells as you can until you learn the ability to refine. Also the game does a poor job of explaining its mechanics to you, which leads to a lot of confusion.

http://home.eyesonff.com/image/jpeg;...IyR3Qiiigh/9k=

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " Apart from Laguna, the characters are so annoying " !

Final Fantasy VIII is guilty of doing something a bit different and that is that the game focuses on teenagers. I've seen alot of people say that they either still relate to Squall now, or they related to Squall alot as a teenager. Same with Rinoa. The characters act a bit wild and rebellious because they are teenagers. They don't know themselves yet and they are working it out. Though as the game goes on, you can see them change. Squall becomes more caring, Rinoa becomes less selfish, Zell becomes more calm and shows leadership qualities, Irvine has a moment where he shows he can be more serious, Selphies shows that her carefree and "crazy " persona is nothing really but a shell. Quistis even calls out Squall's BS at one stage, instead of just letting it pass. Final Fantasy VIII does teenagres a bit more realistically, which some may enjoy as they can relate, or some may feel frustrated by. Though fans seem to forget that the main cast is a bunch of confused seventeen year olds.

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Except they act more like they're seven as opposed to seventeen. Especially Rinoa, the most brainless and vapid bimbo in existence. Also some characters i.e Quistis simply drop out of relevancy once their arc is over and they do absolutely nothing for the rest of the game. Except I'm kinda wrong on that example as Quistis doesn't even have a proper arc, she tries to open up to Squall, he tells her to smurf off, then she just stops being relevant without having learned anything. Hell the one time she actually does something meaningful - when she tells Rinoa what a useless retard she is - she almost undoes it when she decides to abandon her post in the middle of her mission just to apologize for hurting her feelings. I mean, come the smurf on.

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " Ugh, that Junction System " !

And ? What's so awful about it ? Equip a GF. Choose what you what the GF to learn. GF learns the thing. Enjoy some new gameplay. Equip, test and experiment with magics. Enjoy ! Not a torture lol. Also, as others have found out- you can also learn how to abuse it and have fun breaking the game.

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I think we've already covered this before, but you forgot to mention the level scaling which trivializes every battle and further takes away from the sense of progression. Oh and it makes every character play the same, which is always such a big problem for everyone with the materia system in VII, but it's okay when literally any other game does it.

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " I hate Rinoa, she's annoying !"

Rinoa is a naive and rebellious seventeen year old that wants to get "revenge on daddy " at the beginning of the game. Though she's the first to have the confidence to call out on Squall's BS, and she helps him open up and become a better person, by just being honest with him and letting him know what a arsehole he can be sometimes. She does start out to be immature and reckless, but at least she tries ? She is a damsel for a massive amount of the game, but you have to remember she's the only one that isn't a trained SeeD. She was only a impulsive and very naive rebel fighter that easily could've ended up in prison during her train plan. But Rinoa is a good Final Fantasy heroine. Why ? Because she becomes less selfish as the game goes on. Would you give up your freedom and sanity to be locked up and sent into space ? So others could feel safe ?

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Still doesn't change the fact that for well over half the game she's annoying as hell, does nothing but get in everyone else's way, and she's defined by her contrived, one-dimensional obsession over Squall, even though he does nothing but brush her off, but more on that later. She's the very definition of a manic pixie dream girl.

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " I hate Squall, he's a ass " !

Fair enough. I love Squall. Squall is one of my favourite MC's, but Squall can be a horrible person. I feel like you either like Squall because you feel like you can relate/ did relate, or you just don't want to be around him at all. Though this isn't a bad thing, as the game cuts away to the Laguna Dreams and you can spend 20-30 mins playing as somebody more sensitive.
Final Fantasy VIII gives you a escape from the MC if you despise him.

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Actually in retrospect I like Squall, at least until a certain infamous twist takes a steaming trout all over his characterization. He's the only one who actually does act his own age, I mean sure he can take his jerkassery too far but in some cases he wasn't ENOUGH of a jerkass. I know it sounds crazy, right? But I'll get to that in a moment.

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " The Squall/ Rinoa romance is forced and is one of the worst FF romances ever " !!

Hello ?! Did you pay attention to the game at all ? The game says many times that Squall has trust issues, fears that people are going to leave him one day, is pessimistic, pushes people away, and struggles to open up. It's a non-brainer that he doesn't open up till Rinoa is in a coma and feels like he's taken her for granted ! There is also the fact that the dance between Squall and Rinoa is more than just a cute dance. It's symbolic of their relationship. Rinoa never gives up on him and Squall stops being a dick, and opens up and dance perfectly with her. There's also Squall's face when Rinoa cutely walks away from him. Squall opened up, and Rinoa walked away. Squall's facial expressions show sadness.

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Except neither of their actions make any sense. Why is Rinoa so obsessed with Squall in the first place? Why does Squall suddenly decide he can't live without Rinoa, and just contradict his entire character up to that point, when she's done nothing but annoy the trout out of him (and everyone else) and has proven to be a much bigger liability than ally? To be honest I don't know why Squall doesn't get angrier and try even harder to push her away the more she tried to get close, when he did that to literally everyone else in the game. And the way the rest of the team actually has to intervene and force you two together (i.e when Rinoa is dangling from a ledge and the others insist that YOU have to be the one to save Rinoa when literally anyone else could, because it's not like you have more important things to do i.e commanding and managing an entire army in the middle of a battle) only highlights how little chemistry there is between them.

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Originally Posted by maybee

• " But the orphanage plot-twist " !

It's lighty foreshadowed with the Balamb Staff mentioning that GF can cause memory problems, and Irvine refusing to shoot Edea. And this is Final Fantasy ? IN THE SAME GAME THE SCHOOL FOR SOLDIERS CAN FLY.

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As I've said before, the orphanage twist is bad and not just because it's a convenient excuse for everyone to feel closer together. Also maybe it's just me missing something but if Squall has amnesia, why does he act so aloof and distant 24/7? I mean, if he can't remember having a trout childhood, why does he feel the need to push everyone away from him? He 's constantly trying to avoid something he shouldn't remember happening from happening again. And he never once stopped to think about why he acts the way he does? Just seems silly to me.

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Originally Posted by maybee

This game isn't trash. Just misunderstood. That's the tea.

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Maybe(e), but it does have legitimate flaws.

I should probably replay this game some day. I played through it once, and judged it, and never looked back to re-examine first impressions. So I have trouble saying my opinion is relevant since I was like 18 myself when it came out. It's been a long time

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Originally Posted by Example

True, but when you start out you're expected to draw as many spells as you can until you learn the ability to refine. Also the game does a poor job of explaining its mechanics to you, which leads to a lot of confusion.

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Do agree with you that the mechanics to the game could've been explained alot better. Quistis trying to tell you things among a greyish screen is very tedious.


http://home.eyesonff.com/image/jpeg;...IyR3Qiiigh/9k=

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Originally Posted by Example

Except they act more like they're seven as opposed to seventeen. Especially Rinoa, the most brainless and vapid bimbo in existence. Also some characters i.e Quistis simply drop out of relevancy once their arc is over and they do absolutely nothing for the rest of the game. Except I'm kinda wrong on that example as Quistis doesn't even have a proper arc, she tries to open up to Squall, he tells her to smurf off, then she just stops being relevant without having learned anything. Hell the one time she actually does something meaningful - when she tells Rinoa what a useless retard she is - she almost undoes it when she decides to abandon her post in the middle of her mission just to apologize for hurting her feelings. I mean, come the smurf on.

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How is Rinoa a "useless, stupid, bimbo " ? Rinoa is the one that truly sees through Squall's facade, and she knows that Squall cannot just push people away all the time, and she tells him this. She knows that it's the happy memories with others that count, which is very deep and mature, and wise for her age. She smurfs up during the parade, but she was frustrated and just wanted to prove to everybody that she wasn't some useless girl who needed to be locked up in her own house.

Rinoa has previously mentioned is willing to give up her own freedom and sanity to be locked away in some sort of prison in space for all eternity, so others won't fear another witch dictator possibly coming to power like Edea and Adel.

That's the opposite of acting like a child.

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Rinoa : Ok, I'm sorry. I can understand why you wouldn't be in the mood. You're probably still thinking about what the headmaster said today. He put a lot on your shoulders. It all happened so fast.

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The characters are bit immature sometimes yes, but that's because most of them ( not just Squall ) are wearing masks in order to cope.

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Irvine :

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A lone ranger. I was alone in my battles: my battles against pressure, my battles against death. It almost drove me nuts at times.

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Irvine :

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And you...judging us... Who are you?

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Originally Posted by Example

Still doesn't change the fact that for well over half the game she's annoying as hell, does nothing but get in everyone else's way, and she's defined by her contrived, one-dimensional obsession over Squall, even though he does nothing but brush her off, but more on that later. She's the very definition of a manic pixie dream girl.

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You are mistaking obsession with just wanting the man to open up and trust people more.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_11989.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_11990.jpg

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Originally Posted by Example

Actually in retrospect I like Squall, at least until a certain infamous twist takes a steaming trout all over his characterization. He's the only one who actually does act his own age, I mean sure he can take his jerkassery too far but in some cases he wasn't ENOUGH of a jerkass. I know it sounds crazy, right? But I'll get to that in a moment.

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He wasn't enough of a jerkass ? Wtf ?

:eyebrow:

I think saying to Quistis to go speak to a wall after confessing that she's just lost her career and she feels like a failure is pretty damn top douchebag. This is coming from somebody who likes Squall and hates Quistis.

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Originally Posted by Example

Except neither of their actions make any sense. Why is Rinoa so obsessed with Squall in the first place? Why does Squall suddenly decide he can't live without Rinoa, and just contradict his entire character up to that point, when she's done nothing but annoy the trout out of him (and everyone else) and has proven to be a much bigger liability than ally? To be honest I don't know why Squall doesn't get angrier and try even harder to push her away the more she tried to get close, when he did that to literally everyone else in the game. And the way the rest of the team actually has to intervene and force you two together (i.e when Rinoa is dangling from a ledge and the others insist that YOU have to be the one to save Rinoa when literally anyone else could, because it's not like you have more important things to do i.e commanding and managing an entire army in the middle of a battle) only highlights how little chemistry there is between them.

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She's not obsessed with Squall. At the beginning of the game it was just a cute flirt and dance for her, and her main crush at that stage is actually Seifer. During Timber she's frustrated and upset with him because she learns that this guy she had fun with at the SeeD dance, is a douche, and she actually asks him the question ( in her own words ) that he " has fun treating his team-mates so callously " ? At the beginning of the game, ( minus the dance ) she thinks that he's a heartless asshole.

It's not till the parade and Squall stays that everything will be alright and to stay close to him, that she starts to look at Squall in a different light.

Because Squall loves Rinoa. It's Squall that has feelings for Rinoa at the beginning, not her having feelings for Squall. Though due to having trust-issues, fears that loved ones are going to leave him- he fails to open up to those feelings till he feels like he was too late. Before the parade, Rinoa was clearly into Seifer.

I feel like you wanted Squall to be this massive douchebag, and you got disappointed when you found out that his jerkness at the beginning was only because of childhood trauma and he's actually a boy who secretly wants to be friends with everybody and love Rinoa, but he's too scared too. He's not the character that you thought he was.

As for the garden part and saving Rinoa from the cliff- Squall does mention how strange this is that everybody is trying to push him closer to Rinoa while a war is going on.

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Originally Posted by Example

As I've said before, the orphanage twist is bad and not just because it's a convenient excuse for everyone to feel closer together. Also maybe it's just me missing something but if Squall has amnesia, why does he act so aloof and distant 24/7? I mean, if he can't remember having a trout childhood, why does he feel the need to push everyone away from him? He 's constantly trying to avoid something he shouldn't remember happening from happening again. And he never once stopped to think about why he acts the way he does? Just seems silly to me.

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Because he doesn't have amnesia ? Otherwise he wouldn't of had dreams about his young childhood about Ellone. Does the game call it amnesia ? Because it's more like blocked-out-memories than amnesia.

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Originally Posted by Example

Maybe(e)

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I c what u did there. ;)

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Originally Posted by maybee

How is Rinoa a "useless, stupid, bimbo " ? Rinoa is the one that truly sees through Squall's facade, and she knows that Squall cannot just push people away all the time, and she tells him this. She knows that it's the happy memories with others that count, which is very deep and mature, and wise for her age. She smurfs up during the parade, but she was frustrated and just wanted to prove to everybody that she wasn't some useless girl who needed to be locked up in her own house.

Rinoa has previously mentioned is willing to give up her own freedom and sanity to be locked away in some sort of prison in space for all eternity, so others won't fear another witch dictator possibly coming to power like Edea and Adel.

That's the opposite of acting like a child.

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So far you've only cited one example of her being "mature". Every other time she does nothing but get in the way for the sake of her own feelings, the parade incident being the biggest example.

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Originally Posted by maybee

You are mistaking obsession with just wanting the man to open up and trust people more.

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How so? Because from what I can see she is LITERALLY obsessed with trying to change him. If anything you're proving me right.

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Originally Posted by maybee

He wasn't enough of a jerkass ? Wtf ?

:eyebrow:

I think saying to Quistis to go speak to a wall after confessing that she's just lost her career and she feels like a failure is pretty damn top douchebag. This is coming from somebody who likes Squall and hates Quistis.

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Yeah I worded that pretty poorly, and as I said before he goes to far in some places, but at other times - especially with Rinoa - he seems to conveniently make an exception for her.

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Originally Posted by maybee

She's not obsessed with Squall. At the beginning of the game it was just a cute flirt and dance for her, and her main crush at that stage is actually Seifer. During Timber she's frustrated and upset with him because she learns that this guy she had fun with at the SeeD dance, is a douche, and she actually asks him the question ( in her own words ) that he " has fun treating his team-mates so callously " ? At the beginning of the game, ( minus the dance ) she thinks that he's a heartless asshole.

It's not till the parade and Squall stays that everything will be alright and to stay close to him, that she starts to look at Squall in a different light.

Because Squall loves Rinoa. It's Squall that has feelings for Rinoa at the beginning, not her having feelings for Squall. Though due to having trust-issues, fears that loved ones are going to leave him- he fails to open up to those feelings till he feels like he was too late. Before the parade, Rinoa was clearly into Seifer.

I feel like you wanted Squall to be this massive douchebag, and you got disappointed when you found out that his jerkness at the beginning was only because of childhood trauma and he's actually a boy who secretly wants to be friends with everybody and love Rinoa, but he's too scared too. He's not the character that you thought he was.

As for the garden part and saving Rinoa from the cliff- Squall does mention how strange this is that everybody is trying to push him closer to Rinoa while a war is going on.

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She thinks he's a heartless asshole yet keeps trying to flirt with him no matter how many times he rejects her, and the more he pushes her away the more she keeps trying to latch onto him. How is that not being obsessed to you?

When does Squall show any interest in her, especially in the first disc? Because I don't remember him expressing any feelings for her at all, especially when they first met and he tries to get out of dancing with her.

Also it's not that I want Squall to be a massive douchebag, but rather him to be more consistent about being an introvert. Like I said before, he pushes away everyone who is nice to him EXCEPT for Rinoa. Every time Quistis tried to come onto him he either tells her to smurf off or outright ignores her, every time Rinoa does it he suddenly doesn't mind it as much. And him doing that doesn't make any sense since he never shows any romantic interest in her until way late in the game.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Because he doesn't have amnesia ? Otherwise he wouldn't of had dreams about his young childhood about Ellone. Does the game call it amnesia ? Because it's more like blocked-out-memories than amnesia.

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Well I just assumed it was amnesia since nobody else can remember anything about their childhood except for Irvine, and that's because he didn't start using the GFs until after he joined the party, or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Example

Maybe(e)

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I c what u did there. ;)
[/QUOTE]

;)

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Originally Posted by Example

Every other time she does nothing but get in the way for the sake of her own feelings, the parade incident being the biggest example.

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I respect your opinions, and am willing to listen to other examples of her being "in the way for the sake of her own feelings", because at the moment, the parade is the only one I can think of, and even that can be excused in my opinion.

I'm not saying at least part of her motivation wasn't because of what was happening between her and her father, maybe that did play into it, maybe it didn't, but the impression I got was that she did want to help, and was willing to discuss how to help - the scene wasn't "I have to do this prove a point", it was more of an "I have an idea that's unfinished, so do you know to do?" - she comes to the SeeDs to ask them if they have any thoughts on how to complete her plan, which was actually pretty professional of her in a way, as she knew it was unfinished, so she was willing to ask for help.

I never really found any part of the game where she seemed in the way, but I respect your opinion.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

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Originally Posted by Example

Every other time she does nothing but get in the way for the sake of her own feelings, the parade incident being the biggest example.

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I respect your opinions, and am willing to listen to other examples of her being "in the way for the sake of her own feelings", because at the moment, the parade is the only one I can think of, and even that can be excused in my opinion.

I'm not saying at least part of her motivation wasn't because of what was happening between her and her father, maybe that did play into it, maybe it didn't, but the impression I got was that she did want to help, and was willing to discuss how to help - the scene wasn't "I have to do this prove a point", it was more of an "I have an idea that's unfinished, so do you know to do?" - she comes to the SeeDs to ask them if they have any thoughts on how to complete her plan, which was actually pretty professional of her in a way, as she knew it was unfinished, so she was willing to ask for help.

I never really found any part of the game where she seemed in the way, but I respect your opinion.

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Alright you got me there. Admittedly it's been a while since I've played it. But she did make it pretty clear that it was to prove a point, especially after Quistis told her off. In fact I'm pretty sure her being there and hiring the SeeDs in the first place was because she was angry at her dad for something. If she really cared about trying to help she would have known better than to run off and try to interfere with their mission, even if she had the best of intentions. Also constantly asking the SeeDs for help on their plans and being totally helpless without them wasn't very professional, as Squall himself said to her at one point.

Oh man, this is nostalgic. Can we argue whether or not Rinoa grows up to be Ultimecia now? I miss Future Esther

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Originally Posted by Example

So far you've only cited one example of her being "mature". Every other time she does nothing but get in the way for the sake of her own feelings, the parade incident being the biggest example.

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I've provided two !


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_11988.jpg


The chat during the promotion musical concert.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_19553.jpg

And her being willing to give up everything so others could be/ feel safe. Friendly reminder that this game makes it clear that while you are locked up within like a frozen shell in space, your thoughts are very much still active. It would be like locked within a sleep paralysis forever. This is shown with Adel's thoughts coming through the Timber TV screen.


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_19561.jpg

She even tells Squall that she has to do this.

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Rinoa :Ultimecia, a sorceress from the future. She's trying to achieve time compression. She's the only one who would be able to exist in such a world. She, and no other.

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As long as I'm free, she'll continue to use me to accomplish her goal.

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Squall does come for her in the end, but she says that she forever planned to stay in Esthar.

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Originally Posted by Example

How so? Because from what I can see she is LITERALLY obsessed with trying to change him. If anything you're proving me right.

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Because it's not just her that desires Squall to be more open. Rinoa is just more stubborn about it. Stubborn is not being obsessive. And she does let things go if Squall is not up for it.


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_10221.jpg


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_10223.jpg

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Originally Posted by Example

Yeah I worded that pretty poorly, and as I said before he goes to far in some places, but at other times - especially with Rinoa - he seems to conveniently make an exception for her.

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Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder why that is ? ;)

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Originally Posted by Example

She thinks he's a heartless asshole yet keeps trying to flirt with him no matter how many times he rejects her, and the more he pushes her away the more she keeps trying to latch onto him. How is that not being obsessed to you?

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She's not flirting with him, the only time she teases him was during the dance when they didn't even know each other. Seifer was her big crush at the time. She starts flirting with him till about CD2- after the parade where Squall says those " stay close to me " words to her, and Seifer is shown to have faked his death and is working with Edea.


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_5221.jpg

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Rinoa :He was always full of confidence, smart... Just by talking to him, I felt like I could take on the world
I don't really know. I... I think I was in love.

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Selphie : Do you still like him ?

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Rinoa : If I didn't, I wouldn't be talking about it.

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Originally Posted by Example

When does Squall show any interest in her, especially in the first disc? Because I don't remember him expressing any feelings for her at all, especially when they first met and he tries to get out of dancing with her.

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Funny you mention the dance, because it was then that when it shows, the dance between them. Small, but subtle. Squall has trust issues, ofc he's going to try and get out of dancing with anybody, hence why before he was drinking alone in the corner while everybody else was dancing or was in the open.
Yeah, Squall does pretend to be awful at dancing so he can get out of dancing with her, but as soon as he sees her smile warmly, everything changes, and Squall begins to dance perfectly, and even embraces her a bit while he watches the fireworks.

Then Rinoa cutely taps him on his shoulder, thanks him for the fun and good times, and leaves. Squall however looks betrayed and heartbroken. Squall opened up, and somebody he got closed too walked away from him, like he fears.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_2055.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_2057.jpg

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Originally Posted by Example

Also it's not that I want Squall to be a massive douchebag, but rather him to be more consistent about being an introvert. Like I said before, he pushes away everyone who is nice to him EXCEPT for Rinoa. Every time Quistis tried to come onto him he either tells her to smurf off or outright ignores her, every time Rinoa does it he suddenly doesn't mind it as much.

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https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...%2F9fc.jpg&f=1

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Originally Posted by Example

Well I just assumed it was amnesia since nobody else can remember anything about their childhood except for Irvine, and that's because he didn't start using the GFs until after he joined the party, or something like that.

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I looked it up and I don't think that game calls it amnesia, though I could be wrong here, they just mention how scary and how odd it is that they have noticed that the GFs are causing memory loss. Yeah, Irvine was the only one in the team who didn't use any GFs till recently, so his memories of growing up with the others as a baby wasn't lost.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_14730.jpg
https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_14673.jpg

Another great thing about Final Fantasy VIII is it has the most awesome and best looking airship in the entire series.

Fight me.

Attachment 75185

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Originally Posted by maybee

Because it's not just her that desires Squall to be more open. Rinoa is just more stubborn about it. Stubborn is not being obsessive. And she does let things go if Squall is not up for it.

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Stubborn to the point that literally every time she sees him she tries to force him to open up to her. That sounds a bit obsessed to me.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder why that is ? ;)

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That's honestly a good question.

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Originally Posted by maybee

She's not flirting with him, the only time she teases him was during the dance when they didn't even know each other. Seifer was her big crush at the time. She starts flirting with him till about CD2- after the parade where Squall says those " stay close to me " words to her, and Seifer is shown to have faked his death and is working with Edea.

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She says he's the best looking guy here and pretends to cast a spell on him saying "You're-going-to-like-me" how is that not flirting? Let's not forget her first reaction to seeing him on the train mission is to run up and hug him.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Then Rinoa cutely taps him on his shoulder, thanks him for the fun and good times, and leaves. Squall however looks betrayed and heartbroken. Squall opened up, and somebody he got closed too walked away from him, like he fears.

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Wouldn't that just make him even more afraid of getting close to someone? Especially how Quistis and (to a lesser extent) Selphie both tried to get close to him before he met Rinoa, and he brushed them off like nothing. And he shows no signs of being infatuated with Rinoa when he next saw her, not even in his inner thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Example

Stubborn to the point that literally every time she sees him she tries to force him to open up to her. That sounds a bit obsessed to me.

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I feel like you are not really even reading what I'm saying anymore. Or even at all.

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Originally Posted by maybee

She's not flirting with him, the only time she teases him was during the dance when they didn't even know each other. Seifer was her big crush at the time. She starts flirting with him till about CD2- after the parade where Squall says those " stay close to me " words to her, and Seifer is shown to have faked his death and is working with Edea.

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Originally Posted by Example

She says he's the best looking guy here and pretends to cast a spell on him saying "You're-going-to-like-me" how is that not flirting?

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See ? You are not even reading to what I'm saying. What's the point in even having this chat ? This could of been fun, but, k.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Let's not forget her first reaction to seeing him on the train mission is to run up and hug him.

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She was happy that SeeD is here to help out to free Timber. She wanted/ hoped for Seifer.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_3224.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_3246.jpg

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Squall :No, he's not a SeeD.
Rinoa ...Oh.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Wouldn't that just make him even more afraid of getting close to someone?

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It's possible.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Especially how Quistis and (to a lesser extent) Selphie both tried to get close to him before he met Rinoa, and he brushed them off like nothing. And he shows no signs of being infatuated with Rinoa when he next saw her, not even in his inner thoughts.

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Squall was a bit disturbed by Quistis because she's his teacher. Selphie ? He tries to cheer her up a bit when it looks like her Garden Festival got destroyed when the Garden starts moving.
Because they don't really start to "bond " till during/ after the parade, as said before.

Their relationship before the parade :

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_4656.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_4662.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_4664.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_4665.jpg

Their relationship after the parade :

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_11110.jpg


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_14849.jpg


https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_16547.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_16549.jpg

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_16553.jpg

And during the parade :

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...FVIII_6590.jpg

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Squall : Just stay close to me

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https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_19919.jpg

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Rinoa : Oh ! Those words !

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https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...VIII_19923.jpg


The dance is just a cute symbolic metaphor of their relationship. Squall tries to push her away > Rinoa refuses to give up on him > Squall falls for her warmness and the fact that she refuses to give up on him > they bond and dance together perfectly as Squall opens up.

Squall/ Rinoa is the most underrated FF ship ever.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Squall/ Rinoa is the most underrated FF ship ever.

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AHEM...

Attachment 75186

But seriously, I wouldn't call SquaNoa underrated, since their relationship is really a core part of the game. I would say it is the best and definitely the one that hits me hardest in the feels.

Okay I guess you're right. Maybe once I've replayed FF8 we can have this discussion again, but for now you win.

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Originally Posted by Foo

Attachment 75186

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Cloud/ Barret is so cute. I hope we will still be able to have this date in the remake. :jess:

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Originally Posted by Foo

But seriously, I wouldn't call SquaNoa underrated, since their relationship is really a core part of the game. I would say it is the best and definitely the one that hits me hardest in the feels.

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Alot of people feel like it's forced and happens out of thin air and Squall suddenly loves her, when it's just Beauty and the Beast meets Final Fantasy.'

Same here. :love:

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Originally Posted by Example

Okay I guess you're right. Maybe once I've replayed FF8 we can have this discussion again, but for now you win.

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Tell us how it goes !!!

FFVIII is one of my favourite three Final Fantasy games for gameplay value alone, and I actually like me some romantic mush occasionally so I had no problems with that part of the game. The plot is a bit nonsensical, especially the time compression stuff, but to be honest I can't think of many amazingly well designed plots in Final Fantasy history. The first game had time travel, for goodness sake. In another game, the bad guy is a tree. In another game, FFXIII's ending happened. FFVII has it's bizarre moments. I take all my Final Fantasy games with a pinch of salt. People take their gaming too seriously sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Foo

AHEM...

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I can't tell if you gave Cloud your username or if Barret is just using slang.