Not Into KH Anymore ?

I used to treasure this series when I was a tween/teenager, but lately, I just don't have the feelings for it as I did many years ago. The magic seems lost? I'm not really into future Final Fantasy games anymore, but the older games still feel fun and great. Kingdom Hearts just feels like a cluttered, disorganized mess. The story just feels too made up on the spot. I mean, there are Youtube videos out there for fans who are confused about what's going on, even for the most hardcore KH fan.

The first game is alright, wacky and strange, but it's alright. The story makes sense, the characters feel like the typical RPG cast, the music is good and even rivals some FF games, and the only really thing negative about it is that buggy camera. The Square and Disney characters join up idea was bold and charming. Nothing really wrong with the original.

However with the GBA title and KH2, things just go off rails, things go insane and not in the good way. The gameplay with KH2 improves greatly from KH1, but the story is just, bad. Fourteen year old me will despise me for saying this, but the story is smurfing terrible.

Then all the all spin-offs come and then the "btw they are not actually spin-offs, you actually need to buy these games to understand KH3 BS " comes. smurf that. That's how you know that KH's whole entire story is just being made up as everything goes along.

Yes, you can buy all KH games in a collection now, but a few years ago, Square wanted you to bust out a PSP, DS, and GBA for all this to understand KH3. That is ridiculous. That's maddening.

KH started out as a surprise hit, but it's transformed into an ugly mess. I just cannot get into the series anymore. The magic is gone. Poof ! Gone.


Does anybody else feel the same ? Or have I just become that old jaded asshole?

:wcanoe:

Also, the Little Mermaid world in KH2 was GREAT when you are younger dammit! The musical was fun and was a nice break from all the fighting!


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I'm right there as well. The first game was surprisingly charming if rough around the edges. CoM started to send the series in an interesting direction but KHII honestly killed a lot of my momentum for the franchise as it just dragged the series into a kudzu plot that got more ridiculous and unnecessarily complicated with each new installment. By the time Dream Drop Distance hit, I was pretty much done despite BbS and 358/2 restoring a little of my faith in it. I honestly don't care what happens to Sora and his friends or if we'll ever see Kingdom Hearts. I actually wished KHIII would be the last game, but I know it won't.

Yeah, Kingdom Hearts slowly became more and more up its own arse and pretentious. They should go back to basics and follow the Keep It Simple, Stupid principle. It is at its strongest when it has heartfelt interactions between characters, not the, well, you know.

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Originally Posted by maybee

Also, the Little Mermaid world in KH2 was GREAT when you are younger dammit! The musical was fun and was a nice break from all the fighting!


):

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nope this is still the best thing, fight me :colbert:

A lot of people feel like that, and it’s fine. It’s sad when the magic wears off for something you like.

Though tbh. As someone who’s still very much a fan, it’s a bit annoying to have people constantly interrupt your gushing by saying how bad they think the series is, which is apparently the accepted norm right now.

Not saying anyone here is guilty, it’d just be cool if we could all just like and dislike the things we want in peace without bothering anyone else about it :(

Is it because you simply like it, or because you're "gushing" over it? That implies you have little to no criticism about the games. And while I'm with you that we should just let people enjoy things, it can be pretty grating to have people needlessly praise and fawn over something that has a lot of flaws.

The story is a mess. Everyone always says "It was marketed as Final Fantasy meets Disney!" which it wasn't. That's what it obviously is, but it was marketed solely as a Disney game. If you asked 27yo me if I did think FF meets Disney is a good concept, I would say it's absolutely corny and terrible.

But really it just comes down to how fabulously mismanaged and shortsighted they were spreading entries over so many different platforms. Spin-offs alone would have been fine, but including important parts of the story that you need to understand actual "main title" entries is ridiculous. I personally get really pissed off by that, because as someone in a poor family who could barely afford the PS2 and new games, it completely alienated me from the series to have to buy multiple handheld consoles and games. And I know I'm not the only one.

Oh sure, the whole platform thing was a mess, but now that everything is in one place, that’s no longer an issue. I stand by the notion that the story is easy to follow as long as you play the games in order - but that won’t make you like the games if it’s not your thing, and that’s definitely OK since tastes differ and one man’s meat is another man’s poison.

Maybe gushing was a strong word, but it seems like whenever talk of KH starts and I and a few people still invested talk speculations about will happen next, someone will always walk in and complain.

It certainly has its flaws, but I still really enjoy the series. Recently replayed the games on PS4 and can't wait for 3.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Oh sure, the whole platform thing was a mess, but now that everything is in one place, that’s no longer an issue. I stand by the notion that the story is easy to follow as long as you play the games in order - but that won’t make you like the games if it’s not your thing, and that’s definitely OK since tastes differ and one man’s meat is another man’s poison.

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I think consolidating it onto one disc was one of the smarter things they've done with the series. However, I think a lot of people our age love the games because of nostalgia--which I really, totally get--so they've missed their mark a bit with people like myself who didn't play the series when it was first out. I had the original KH game shortly after it came out, and 12yo me never finished games and I struggled to find my way around Cave of Wonders and lost interest.

I'm rambling, but my point here is, they still alienated people that would probably be lifelong fans now instead of casually interested in the series because they can get it all for PS4. They still have the option of bringing in younger generations, and I still feel that what they did was the right move.

Granted, this is just my opinion and personal anecdote. I also am a bit bitter because the game was making me irl mad earlier this summer because the controls...leave a lot to be desired. :p

Oh of course, there is no denying the fact they’ve set up people to be alienated. I was lucky enough to have the systems the games came out for so I could follow the story, which is probably why I’ve stayed invested for so long. But it’s oerfectly understandable if you dropped off along the way because the story does become a confusing mess if you can’t experience its crucial parts.

And yeah, KHI is very clunky coming back to it today. I still prefer it over II for its exploration when it comes to the gameplay, though

I'm kind of with y'all. I got the first rereleases on the PS4 and was playing through and catching up and having a fun time. Then I got to Dream Drop Distance. The ending of that game just killed any interest I had the story. And not to mention that movie based on the phone app. They're setting all this stuff up and I don't believe the payoff is going to be worth it. Not going to lie, I'm mostly getting KH3 for Baymax. And we better fistbump.

https://i.imgur.com/8bRSXck.gif

Also Toy Story.

I’m still excited about Kingdom Hearts III, and I really enjoy the series as a whole. That said, I also think the first game was the best one. I know people complain about the camera and controls, but those never bothered me as a kid. I’ve played the game so many times that they are kind of second nature to me now.

Anyways, I feel like the first game had the best sense of wonder going around to the different Disney worlds, the music was good, the simple story was great with just the right amount of cheesiness to not be obnoxious, and the difficulty was just right to me. I also really liked the voice actor for Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, and I was sad it was changed in future games.

I find the other games too easy (except maybe chain of memories), and the story never kept the same magic of the first game for me.

I was never a teen for thos series and it never held too much draw for mem. It's alright, but the gameplay is kind of stupid and button-mashy amd the story is overly sappy drivel. The fact thtlat I have a lot of side game lore to catch up on for the third entry is not particularly enticing for me.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Though tbh. As someone who’s still very much a fan, it’s a bit annoying to have people constantly interrupt your gushing by saying how bad they think the series is, which is apparently the accepted norm right now.

Not saying anyone here is guilty, it’d just be cool if we could all just like and dislike the things we want in peace without bothering anyone else about it :(

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Where are you hanging out Fynn? Because I've seen a lot of people excited for KH3 and not much hate or dislike at all. Sorry didn't mean to be rude towards anybody who loves/ still loves KH. Enjoy the magic!

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Originally Posted by Jinx

However, I think a lot of people our age love the games because of nostalgia

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I'm a bit iffy on the whole " You only like it because of nostalgia thing ", but you might have a point here.

I didn't say ONLY, but let's be honest here that it's a big part of it. People are willing to overlook flaws in games they love because of nostalgia.

Call me strange. I replayed all of them a few months back and I....freaking loved it. Even today they're just so much fun to play, no nostalgia required. I can't wait for KHIII.

The story is balls to the walls insane, incoherent and stupid, to the point that it is a guilty pleasure of mine, where I actually look forward to see just how much more absurd, ridiculous, and schizophrenic Nomura can make it. Any hope of it being redeemed was lost with KH3D and I'm just fine with that.

There’s also a difference between not acknowledging a thing’s flaws and not mentioning a thing’s flaws every time you talk about something. Like, KH is one of my favorite series of all time and of smurfing course it’s flwef because everything is, but when I talk to people about it in whatever context, I don’t need to interject every sentence with an acknowledgment of any game’s flaws. I’m aware of them, and so is the other speaker (and we may well disagree on what these flaws are), but until the topic veers into that territory, we probably won’t mention it.

You don’t have to think a thing is flawless in order to enjoy it - nor do you need nostalgia to like it despite its flaws just because the flaws make it impossible for some people to stomach. We all have different tastes, and it being just nostalgia and nothing else is ver rarely the case.

I mean, this is a topic about the game's flaws or about not liking it anymore or whatever, so you'd pretty much expect the flaws to come up. The only "flaw" I usually bring up when the topic of KHIII comes around is that I'm pissed they still haven't put Darkwing Duck in this series.

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Originally Posted by Lord Golbez

I mean, this is a topic about the game's flaws or about not liking it anymore or whatever, so you'd pretty much expect the flaws to come up. The only "flaw" I usually bring up when the topic of KHIII comes around is that I'm pissed they still haven't put Darkwing Duck in this series.

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This and Duck Tales.


1987 or the newer one idc.

I'm with Golbez, I think I was too old when it came out to really get invested. It was hard to take Donald and Goofy seriously as an adult. And the fact that you really just ran around and whacked stuff didn't really help endear it to me. So thankfully I didn't really get into it as a series, and I had trouble seeing why anyone did. It was like Pokemon to me, such a one-note thing, and I seemed to be the only one at the time who didn't enjoy that note. Nostalgia really could have saved that idea for me if they had used things like Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Gummi Bears, or Tale Spin. Stuff that I actually enjoyed as a child. Mickey, Donald, Goofy were staples of Disney but they were never characters I actually cared about. They were just fluff inserts for stories, they never had their own stories. Aside from maybe Goof Troop, which, if Max and PJ were in the game I may have also been more invested

So I guess the meandering plot and nonsense release schedule are the least of my worries in trying to get into the series. I don't go around pissing in people's soups over Pokemon though, and it's not something I feel compelled to do with Kingdom Hearts either. I have a similar problem with Dissidia as well. Which just seems like some hodge-podge fanfiction schlock where you throw in every character you loved as a child and try to make sense of it. Plots like that will rarely make enough sense to satisfy me. But people like it and that's okay. I'll just leave well enough alone

I guess the main thing for me would be that I wish Kingdom Hearts had succeeded in different ways and helped create a renaissance of nostalgia, and I could have compelling new stories with my favorite childhood shows. But that didn't happen. Each new entry just embraced newer and newer stuff. So I find that sad as a lost potential

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I'm with Golbez, I think I was too old when it came out to really get invested. It was hard to take Donald and Goofy seriously as an adult.l

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That's interesting because I think I like Donald and Goofy even more than I did when I was a child. They are just so wild. Donald is pretty relatable too, or as the kids say these days " a mood ". :lol:

This topic made me go back and plat Kingdom Hearts. And the Unchanging Armor trophy is the worst.

Not that this excuses it, but the completely unrelatable, convoluted plot issue, or the issue of needing to access several forms of media/platforms to get the whole story seems to be a theme across a few modern Square-Enix games.

I still can't relate to FF13's story. I just think it's dumb. :shrug:

The way they delivered FF15's story across several different platforms, and then delivered an incomplete game storywise upon release was really off-putting to me.

Are there other examples? I think the latest Star Ocean's story was fairly normal, it's just that the game had a development budget of about $600 dollars because FF15 MUST be a success.

EDIT: Also, yes, I haven't been into a KH since the first one. Sorry Square. I can take a lot of crappiness in a game if I'm really into where the story is going. KH 2's gameplay was better, but I'm not huge on 3D action RPG's really, and the story was dumb. Obfuscation isn't automatically clever.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Honestly I just find it hard to care about KH anymore after it's been milked for so long. It wouldn't be so bad if each game was its own individual story, like with the Final Fantasy series, but tying everything into one overarching narrative then spreading it across so many games on so many different platforms just makes it that much harder to get into. Don't get me started on how utterly inane the story and dialogue are and always have been. That being said the games always had fun and challenging gameplay, with the only exception being 358/2 Days. And I'm still looking forward to KH3, if only for the Pixar worlds.

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Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg

Not that this excuses it, but the completely unrelatable, convoluted plot issue, or the issue of needing to access several forms of media/platforms to get the whole story seems to be a theme across a few modern Square-Enix games.

I still can't relate to FF13's story. I just think it's dumb. :shrug:

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You have a point. Though you don't have to play Final Fantasy VI- then Final Fantasy VI Card Game- then Final Fantasy VI : 2 World Of Ruin- Final Fantasy VI : Terra's parents adventure
Final Fantasy VI : DS Final Fantasy VI : 3DS and Final Fantasy VI : Cellphone game

To understand what the heck is going on.