Hype!
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I'm currently downloading it :D I'm so hyped!
Finished playing it! I'll hide my feelings under a spoiler tag, I don't want to influence anybody who don't want any of that influencing. :p
(SPOILER)The visuals and audio are great obviously, it's a nice feeling when you recognize areas you've been in so many times so many years ago. Can't really clock anything in the graphics department, characters are good too. The dialogue in the original game is quite a burning trainwreck, Cloud's attitude problem in particular, so it's fun to see how they've stayed true to the awful personalities of the characters while still fleshing out the dialogue. Good move. Now, the gameplay. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. From watching the videos I was concerned that the game would mostly want to play itself, with little input from the player. My concerns weren't gone from playing this demo, gameplay felt somewhat automatic. If the game was called something else and the characters were named Ethan and Jake, I don't think I'd care much for the gameplay, or the genre, at all. I'll probably pick up the game eventually, but it probably won't be at launch for full price.
Well, I loved it.
The graphics are completely stunning, although camera blurring is used at points to hide some of the rougher edges which is largely unnoticeable until some of the downtime segments. But the opening cinematic with Aerith and the pan-out of Midgar looks R I D I C U L O U S L Y good ingame.
I had a lot of reservations about the combat system, but figured I'd face them head-on and jumped in on Normal. It feels like FFXV combat wise (in that you can just hold the attack button down to chain combos out) but a lot more fluid. Importing the stagger system from XIII means your ATB spending abilities feel much more impactful than the magic and cross-links did in XV. Cloud's 2 combat modes feel distinctly different to each other, and switching to Barrett changes up the gameplay style completely and switching between the two is very necessary. I also found dodging some of Guardian Scorpion's attacks to be surprisingly difficult and you do get punished if you just chump everything to the face, but not enough that it feels frustrating or unfair. I was surprised how much you could get through without using ATB charge spending abilities at all though (and the charges were mostly spent on using potions), but figure it's the early part of the game so not supposed to be overly challenging.
Sadly there was no materia to dive into with the demo though.
The banter between Barrett and Cloud is very reminiscent of the bro-banter from FFXV and even just from Reactor 1 alone Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie have more personality than the original but still feel faithful. Even the layout of the reactor feels both familiar and new at the same time.
This has cranked my hype level and I can't wait for April 10th now!
Will give it another playthrough tomorrow on the Classic battle setting to see how that feels.
FINALLY! I figured they were going to release the demo around the time of the game's original release. I'm downloading it now and in the middle of other projects, so it may be a little while to get around to it. It will be nice to get a better idea if this is going to be a good game on its own, or if I'm going to have to muster up my nostalgia of the original to getting around to picking this up. We'll see.
Came home from work 3 hours early to download it. Hehehe.
Very good! I definitely need to put in more time with the combat system to get used to it, but after I started using the shortcuts later on it really started to flow. I definitely disagree with the comment suggesting the game 'played itself,' there was more depth in the bombing mission than in OG VII's, that's for sure. At this point in the original game Cloud and Barret had 'Attack' and a couple of offensive magic spells each. Now we have attack combos which are slightly different depending on how you handle your input, you have abilities that build up stagger/do bonus damage when staggered, an alternate Stance for Cloud for slow movement but with stronger hits, counter attacks AND the ability to gain the 'Berserk' status effect at the end of a combo. Barret has his own unique ability as well with the overcharge. You have to worry about positioning, evading, blocking, countering...
There's a heck of a lot going on here, and so far: it's great stuff. I can't wait to start playing around with materia, equipment, new abilities and TIFA. TIFA TIFA TIFA TIFA <3
Just played it through on the Classic setting instead and... yeah - the game pretty much plays itself then. It uses the Easy battle difficulty (which I guess is so that it's not too punishing if the AI gets confused - which happened for me, Cloud got stuck pathing around in a circle trying to hit a Monodrive that had gone up in the air), and you can either take control directly or just input commands as and when the ATB gauges fill. I guess enemies have less health too as the whole thing felt like a walk in the park. Still, it's a nice option for those who just want to enjoy the FFVII story in better graphical fidelity without having to worry about the more hands-on part of the combat system such as evading and blocking.
(SPOILER)Also this battle theme is L E G I T
While I’m not the biggest fan of VII, I found myself smiling the moment the demo started up. I started getting that same feeling I bet people were getting back when VII first came out and they first booted up the game. It’s so pretty, and the music was fantastic.
I didn’t get a chance to play all the way through because I have to work early tomorrow, but so far I’m feeling good about the game. Everything feels spot on, and the combat on normal seems about as good as I could hope for with an action rpg that leans more towards the rpg side of things (at least from the little I’ve played). I’m just excited about picturing how future battles and moments will be. Tomorrow I should be able to play through to the end of the demo, and we’ll see if I’m still feeling positive by the end.
I enjoyed it overall. I'll pick up the game when prices drop a little (i dont really care about special download edition stuff)
Positives:
Beautiful looking game. The intro really looked spectacular.
They seem to have fleshed out Jessie and Wedge (didn't get much time with Biggs), which is nice. I like flirty Jessis and Wedge's voice sounds exactly how it always did in my head. Scorpion battle was really fun.
Music is excellent.
Cons:
I still need to get used to the battle system, maybe the demo wasn't enough time. As someone said, there is a LOT going on. A few more battles and I think I'll be fine.
Random quips during video games have always annoyed me, so I'm not looking forward to characters repeating the same things over and over. "I'm not gonna die to no scorpion!" or whatever is a nice quip for a boss battle, but not 3 or 4 times in that battle.
The laser walls were dumb filler. Go away.
I really enjoy the demo too! The music is beautiful and I really love the banters between the characters, and the gameplay is really fune too. I'm not a fan of playing as Barret, but Cloud was really fun to play with and I can't wait to try the others!
Nostalgia it is then. Just finished this tonight. Will probably have to play around with it to really get a good feel for everything. For the most part, the demo confirmed a few of my concerns, but I can see this being something I may pick up down the line. There was a part of me that was really hoping the demo would pull from the classical demos of the game and maybe let us test drive Aerith or Tifa, and perhaps access to a summon, but overall, it was a fairly well done demo.
Pros:
- Production values are pretty top notch here, no one will deny the game is pretty.
- The Command Menu does give combat a nice break up and allow more tactical fighting. I also appreciate that using items is not a free action.
- The VA work is pretty good. No real complaints except maybe Wedge since he sounds like a doofus but then I remember that's what he was...
- I liked the fact you could choose the(SPOILER) final timer for the bomb. Though even twenty minutes is really generous. I wonder if the final game will drop it down to ten.
- Switching between characters is pretty seamless, though the different playstyles of the characters can be a little difficult to accustom to when you first switch over.
- New Limit Breaks sounds interesting. I never got to see Barret's new one, but I'm intrigued we'll get a few new ones from the cast.
- I really liked the change (SPOILER)concerning the bomb, that was actually a pretty sly story change.
- They did a great job of not messing too much with the feel of the original story and characters. So I feel long time fans will be happy.
- Bombing Mission is still a great track, and the new version is pretty good.
- This might sound silly, but I appreciate the game keeping treasure chests.
Cons:
- Combat at this point, is just not for me. While I appreciate the fact there is still more tactical elements thanks to the Command Menu and enemies having certain weaknesses, the combat wasn't too impressive. Cloud just auto-combos into things. Blocking would be more helpful if there was a better way to see what all the enemies are doing, and not getting sniped from offscreen cause you were too busy trying to anticipate what the enemy you were actually targeting was doing.
- The biggest issue is that everything in this game is tanky except for a few very common enemies, but I'm including Cloud and the party in this. I mean we start the game with over a thousand HP and I never died once and I was playing on Normal difficulty. It's too easy to just tank damage from enemies and trade blows than it is to actually bother with blocking or dodging. Considering I never ran out of Potions either. This game better have a hard mode, otherwise the core design is way too easy.
- The Scorpion Boss fight drags on way too long. Just as I expected, it felt less like I was fighting a difficult boss, and more like I was just fighting an HP sponge. Despite all the pyrotechnics going on in the fight, I never felt pressured, so why did we have to drag this fight out so long? I get it, he's a starter boss, but a starter boss that takes almost ten minutes to kill? Let's be reasonable here, they should have either made him tougher or more practically made the fight take less time.
- I'm conflicted with how magic is being handled in this game. On the one hand, it's actually potent and useful, which is very good and I'm happy cause I've played too many Action RPGs where magic is usually useless after awhile. My issue is that Magic requires both MP and ATB to use, while Commands only need ATB. Why can't magic just be restricted to one thing or the other? Why does it have two handicaps in place? Like its useful, but I almost feel like its only useful because the devs programmed scenarios to make it feel useful, whereas I'm just spamming my non-MP using Braver skill over here to bring the hurt on things.
- I'm still not a fan of the Stagger mechanic, it just feels like it drags out combat more than necessary.
- I was very disappointed that I couldn't grab a few free potions off the unconscious bodies of the guards Jessie and Biggs took out like in the original. :(
- Also, to no ones surprise, the Compilation is referenced. Though, there is still a strong possibility the incidence referenced is different in the remake.
I actually really, really disliked this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
(SPOILER) In the original, Avalanche are responsible for all those deaths because of their direct action. Shinra respond with something far more catastrophic (plate drop), and for far more evil reasons.
Avalanche's guilt was barely addressed in the first game, mostly because the magnitude of Shinra's evil overshadowed Avalanche actions. Also because it was a controversial topic then (and now).
I enjoy Avalanche as eco-terrorists and the whole morality issues it brings up. Shifting that blame to the Big Evil we already know is a Big Evil is a pretty weak move (especially because within an hour or so of gameplay they *REALLY* commit a horrendous crime), and seems to be to allow the story writers to avoid something controversial (and compelling)
Okay, here's the thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr GashtacularI actually really, really disliked this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
(SPOILER) In the original, Avalanche are responsible for all those deaths because of their direct action. Shinra respond with something far more catastrophic (plate drop), and for far more evil reasons.
Avalanche's guilt was barely addressed in the first game, mostly because the magnitude of Shinra's evil overshadowed Avalanche actions. Also because it was a controversial topic then (and now).
I enjoy Avalanche as eco-terrorists and the whole morality issues it brings up. Shifting that blame to the Big Evil we already know is a Big Evil is a pretty weak move (especially because within an hour or so of gameplay they *REALLY* commit a horrendous crime), and seems to be to allow the story writers to avoid something controversial (and compelling)
(SPOILER)The original game may have started with that premise, but it never really went there after Midgar with the exception of Cait Sith calling out Barret once in Disk 2. Considering we're dealing with a party that was otherwise law abiding and heroic for the rest of the game. It just never felt right that such an edgy opening never panned out. So I'm not surprised that SE is going to keep their record a little more squeaky clean, even if this means we'll now be dealing with the FF equivalent of "Han shot first" nonsense.
The other issue at play here is that SE just won't go there. They may occasionally kill a character here and there, but they tend to stay clear of heavy handed subject matter and VII easily has the most elements in the series. It makes sense to me that SE would choose to make Avalanche (thank god I don't have to capitalize all of it anymore) a softer brand.
The last issue at play here is that the sequence falls closer to a bit more realism. A bomb of that size could never take down a reactor realistically. Especially if Jessie only made it based off instructions she got off the web. They would have either needed multiple bombs placed in structurally sensitive areas or they made a bomb with some more pop, which I doubt Barret's meager outfit could get their hands on and would likely be the size of a truck. The funny thing was that I was actually thinking about this when I reached that point in the plot and was amused when the bomb that went off did minor damage.
Of anything, the new element simply makes new players know exactly what they are dealing with. I was curious to know if SE planned on making the top brass of Shin-Ra less cartoonish, but that moment showed me we'll still be dealing with out usual puppy kicking, mustache twirling villains we all know and love. They just decided to play their hand earlier.
My only argument would be that maybe (SPOILER)avalanche are more saboteur than terrorist, and primarily want to knock the thing offline rather than blow the entire place to smithereens. indeed, shinra making the explosion bigger would allow shinra to escalate the media outcry, etc etc Otherwise I see your points, but it stills feels like a missed plot opportunity to me.
I was a bit confused by the lack of materia, the laser security system was a waste of time, and I'm not a fan of how they made Barret too over-the-top and dramatic, even when compared to the original, but otherwise it was everything I expected it to be.
the materia can be seen glowing in cloud's sword (which i think is a really nice thing), but they left out any materia management. im assuming it will be in the full game, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Example
It 100% will. You didn't have materia during the bombing run in the OG, either.
Someone mentioned online somewhere that it’s easy to miss, but the hint of Shinra causing a more massive explosion is referenced in the original (I think when they get back to 7th heaven). I might go back and play the beginning of VII just to see, but it’s just as likely that they weren’t expecting the explosion to be so big and to cause casualties because they weren’t thinking about the wider picture.
I can agree that the boss fight went on too long. They could have had a quicker fight with all the spectacle still attached. What was the compilation reference though, Wolf Kanno? I’m thinking I missed that when my dog was going crazy and distracting me at some point.
Yeah, regarding this plot point:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr GashtacularI actually really, really disliked this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
(SPOILER) In the original, Avalanche are responsible for all those deaths because of their direct action. Shinra respond with something far more catastrophic (plate drop), and for far more evil reasons.
Avalanche's guilt was barely addressed in the first game, mostly because the magnitude of Shinra's evil overshadowed Avalanche actions. Also because it was a controversial topic then (and now).
I enjoy Avalanche as eco-terrorists and the whole morality issues it brings up. Shifting that blame to the Big Evil we already know is a Big Evil is a pretty weak move (especially because within an hour or so of gameplay they *REALLY* commit a horrendous crime), and seems to be to allow the story writers to avoid something controversial (and compelling)
a) I don't think it is a change from the original
b) Even if it is, I don't think it matters.
(SPOILER)In the original game Jessie tells you how the explosion was much bigger than she expected. "Hey look at the news... what a blast. Think it was all because of my bomb? But all I really did was make it just like the computer told me... Oh no, I must have made a miscalculation somewhere". Whether it was Shinra's doing in the original or accidental, it seems to have been a larger boom than anticipated, just like in the remake.
But assume for a second that this is a deliberate change: so what? They were still planning on disabling a power plant. Shutting down transport, hospitals, lights, heating. They were putting lives at risk, big boom or no. Even if they had only got the little boom they'd planned, they're still eco-terrorists who went and murdered a bunch of Shinra employees and crippled the local infrastructure. Furthermore, even with Shinra's helping hand, they're going to *think* they're responsible for what happened, and I think from a story perspective that's the interesting theme to explore. As far as they're concerned they just inadvertently Chernobyled Sector 8, and now in the coming chapters we're hopefully going to explore how they live with that burden. Remember what Tifa said in the E3 trailer: "I know we have to think big if we want to make a difference... but not like this."
Heidegger mentions that someone tried to assassinate President Shinra before, and he wasn't sure if this terrorist group was connected to the one that tried. This was a plot point in Before Crisis, because the original "pre-Barret" version of Avalanche tried to assassinate him in the beginning of that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamer
Well, I loved it. Equal parts comforting familiarity and intriguing surprises, which is what I was hoping for. I'll need a little longer to get fully au fait with the combat, but it's off to a solid start at any rate. The Scorpion and Sweeper fights were both pretty lengthy -and the Shock Troopers, to a lesser extent - but that's understandable given the lack of random battles. It's not like you can just keep running around on the spot to keep fighting forever now.
I was thrown by the revelation of (SPOILER)Shinra self-destructing the crippled reactor, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes, and why they resorted to seemingly such drastic action so early in the piece. In the original, Jessie's caught off guard by the size of the blast: it was much more than she expected, but she had built the bomb using a plan she obtained electronically, so it wasn't a completely predictable device.
Finally, just got to say that I loved the banter between the characters as they went about their mission. The writing's consistent and characterful, and it's going to be great to see them evolve over the course of this game, and its (hopefully inevitable) future episodes.
Ah, I never even knew any of the details from Before Crisis since I could never play it. I might not have caught even if I was paying attention at that moment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
(SPOILER)I thought the reference you were mentioning was the black feather Cloud saw during his headache. It's been a really long time since I've played CC and I didn't even notice the assassination attempt reference.
The combat system will once again make me not want to play a new FF game :(
Yea, that's my point. I want them to explore this guilt more thoroughly than the original and (SPOILER)im afraid the burden of true guilt to shinra here will be an excuse not to explore that but we'll see when the full game comes out. I was not aware of Tifa's line in the E3 trailer, so that might change everything about my expectations, thanks :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxYeah, regarding this plot point:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr GashtacularI actually really, really disliked this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
(SPOILER) In the original, Avalanche are responsible for all those deaths because of their direct action. Shinra respond with something far more catastrophic (plate drop), and for far more evil reasons.
Avalanche's guilt was barely addressed in the first game, mostly because the magnitude of Shinra's evil overshadowed Avalanche actions. Also because it was a controversial topic then (and now).
I enjoy Avalanche as eco-terrorists and the whole morality issues it brings up. Shifting that blame to the Big Evil we already know is a Big Evil is a pretty weak move (especially because within an hour or so of gameplay they *REALLY* commit a horrendous crime), and seems to be to allow the story writers to avoid something controversial (and compelling)
a) I don't think it is a change from the original
b) Even if it is, I don't think it matters.
(SPOILER)In the original game Jessie tells you how the explosion was much bigger than she expected. "Hey look at the news... what a blast. Think it was all because of my bomb? But all I really did was make it just like the computer told me... Oh no, I must have made a miscalculation somewhere". Whether it was Shinra's doing in the original or accidental, it seems to have been a larger boom than anticipated, just like in the remake.
But assume for a second that this is a deliberate change: so what? They were still planning on disabling a power plant. Shutting down transport, hospitals, lights, heating. They were putting lives at risk, big boom or no. Even if they had only got the little boom they'd planned, they're still eco-terrorists who went and murdered a bunch of Shinra employees and crippled the local infrastructure. Furthermore, even with Shinra's helping hand, they're going to *think* they're responsible for what happened, and I think from a story perspective that's the interesting theme to explore. As far as they're concerned they just inadvertently Chernobyled Sector 8, and now in the coming chapters we're hopefully going to explore how they live with that burden. Remember what Tifa said in the E3 trailer: "I know we have to think big if we want to make a difference... but not like this."
I absolutely love the combat in the Remake Demo. The only gripe I have is that locking on to enemies can get a bit hectic if there are multiple enemies on screen, but you can always enter tactical mode even with no ATB charges to slow down time and assess the situation so that negates that slightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
The Stagger system from FFXIII works *so* well for the Remake, and they've improved on it greatly. In FFXIII you could just auto-battle RAV-RAV-COM to easily Stagger an enemy, but now you physically have to build ATB in order to use abilities that will help build that pressure.
Don't underestimate Barret in the demo, either. If you make him the party leader (change it in battle settings in the menu) before the fight with the Sweepers you will have a big advantage. You can get straight in there with an overcharge which helps to start building pressure and boosts your ATB. You'd be tempted to use lighting magic, but hold off on that for now to conserve MP. Instead opt for Barrets focused shot ability which again boosts pressure. Switch to Cloud and pummel it with strong attacks to fill ATB and then use focused thrust. The Sweeper will be staggered in no time and then you're free to hit it with Lightning magic & Clouds Braver. There is a lot of depth here already without a full party of three and that's not even taking in to account the various weapons, materia, summons and unique character abilities that will all come together in the final game.
Played it again and actually tried to use the battle system with "skill" and the results were mostly the same, except I used less potions between fights. I do appreciate that rolling to evade isn't as bulltrout as it usually is in games like KH or CC, where it practically makes you invincible if you get the timing right. Still, I didn't feel like playing with skill versus just trading blows did anything to offset the core issues I've noticed of your party being way too tanky to worry about anything. I also can't seem to get Barret to ever get his Limit Break to activate cause he just never takes much damage. The partner A.I. is a bit passive, and I can't seem to figure out how to just tell them to attack a certain enemy that doesn't require using magic or an ability.
Also, why do the Guard Hounds have to be staggered? I mean I get it with the Sweeper and Guard Scorpion, but it was weird that the Guard Dog can take enough of a beating to get staggered first. Again, I feel this mechanic just slows down combat and adds artificial difficulty in order to stretch out fights as opposed to making enemies a bigger threat.
I did spend a bit more time just looking around at things and spotted a few interesting tidbits.
- I spotted another Compilation reference. There is a poster in the entrance way area, pass the opening train stop, that references Banora with an advertisement for a Banora apples flavored drink. Banora being the hometown of Angeal and Genesis in Crisis Core.
- For those wondering why Barret calls Cloud "Stamp", it is apparently because Stamp the Dog is a fictional, possibly military, cartoon figure that is popular in the world. How do I know this? Because there is a torn poster detailing the new book about the pup on one of the walls just before you get the tutorial for Shinra boxes.
- Cloud being relegated to the Fire Materia, instead of having his Blizzard and Thunder Materia like the original is a double reference. In the original Dissidia, Fire magic was the only magic he could use in his move set; but this itself is a reference to Crisis Core, because one of the formulas for making a Fire Materia in Materia Fusion was combing a Thunder and Blizzard materia together. The more you know.
Lol thanks for this, I did wonder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Barret was over-the-top.
"Are you tellin' me you've never heard the planet cryin' out in PAIN?!!!!"
...and I still don't like his sunglasses.
Yup, sounds like Barret!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
I suspect it is in order to serve as an introduction to the mechanic. It's good design. Introduce a new system with low threat enemies first, so players understand how to use it when the stakes are higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
The first enemy type you encounter can be quickly beaten by just mashing attack. The second enemy type requires utilising the Pressured/Staggered system. The third enemy type requires character switching to handle range, the fourth requires using magic, and then the Guard Scorpion puts all of it together and introduces more mechanics including exploiting weaknesses with elemental magic.
First, I dunno about you but I definitely had to use a fair number of potions and cure spells. But also... you're in the tutorial. You don't expect enemies to be taking off half your HP with each hit, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I feel like the Sweeper is a much better candidate for the mechanic, and it actually makes more sense that a giant mecha machine would need to be staggered to do real damage. I imagine most people don't even notice the guard dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
If you're going to do an action battle system, then yes, I expect some challenge, even in the tutorial. What's the point of adding all these skill based mechanics if you're just going to let me RPG my way out of the problem with levels and excessive healing? I'm a Dark Souls/DMC fan, if you're going to make the game be an action title, bring the challenge or don't bother. Its the underlying issue I have with most Action-RPGs is that battle systems are too easy and are basically cosmetic without it.Quote:
First, I dunno about you but I definitely had to use a fair number of potions and cure spells. But also... you're in the tutorial. You don't expect enemies to be taking off half your HP with each hit, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
It basically comes back to my issue with the Guard Scorpion, the fight is long, but its never challenging because you have so many items and healing options you can play just as reckless and unintuitively as you want. Compare that to the Asylum Demon in DS1 who can be easily cheesed if you know what to do, but will likely hand you your ass if try to just run in whaling on him without any concern for your safety. Challenge is intuitive design, the Guard Scorpion would have been a more effective tutorial boss if he actually made all the mechanics you learned up from that point the key to success. I didn't even bother switching to Barret the second playthrough outside of the tutorial part since Cloud has Fire magic to deal with long range opponents. Didn't really change my experience.
I'm not saying the game needs to be brutally hard, but I feel the stagger and party switching mechanics should have been more important so the mechanics would have more weight. I never died either time I played, and the only difference between not playing like a dumbass versus just going all Leroy Jenkins on everything is losing about 7 more potions of my very generous stock of healing items. If the tutorial is going to be this brain dead about the mechanics, it doesn't instill much confidence that the rest of the game is going to be different. As it stands staggering, party switching, and planning out what spells and abilities to use amount to nothing but fluff to add artificial flavor to the battle mechanics.
Considering this is the same demo that was used at trade shows I'm going to assume that you start with an ample amount of potions and pick up more (+phoenix downs) along the way because they don't really want people getting a "Game Over" at the booth after queueing for hours to play it and then leaving the booth feeling miserable. IIRC the demo of FFVIII back in 1998 of the Dollet Mission gave players access to a bit more stuff item-wise (and even ability wise) than what they would normally have had at that point in the game.
Also, if they made the combat Souls level of difficulty from the first boss, the backlash they would've faced would be insane. FFVII is after all a beloved game, and the hype around this means that it's going to be bring in new and old alike. I think a Souls level of challenge type game from the first boss would immediately alienate a lot of that audience.
Do I think it's a tad on the easy side on Normal? Yes. Though am I also happy that magic and abilities are actually impactful after FFXV? Also yes.
From all the preview videos I've seen from press/influencers who got given a three hour demo to try recently which covered further parts of the game all commented on how the Air Buster fight at the Sector 5 reactor was challenging etc. (SPOILER)And also has an optional mechanic inside the reactor where you can find keycards to re-configure the boss before you fight it.
So I expect it to ramp up in that regard, but never really reach a Souls level unless they've snuck in some optional super bosses.
Who knows, maybe they'll even patch in a free harder difficulty like they did with KHIII.
Maybe I'm just really bad at video games but I tried to be very strategic and still used almost all of my potions lol
I'm still not sure how I feel about (SPOILER)Shinra making the blast larger. It changes a lot. Or maybe it doesn't?
I'm not saying it needs to be Souls level hard, but if you're going to build a battle system around a skill based system, I simply wish it represented that. As I said, the stagger and party switching mechanics just don't feel like they have any weight in the demo, so why make a big deal about them? As it stands, I simply feel like the options presented in the game feel like padding and fluff as opposed to being important tools. It's like being given a test your professor tells you that everyone will pass with B- as long as they write something, so why bother putting in the extra effort for an A if failure is never an option? Its not even like I feel these issues are unique to the demo or the game itself. This is what I feel is a problem with Action-RPGs in general is that they push for heavier involvement in controlling your characters, but are so afraid of turning off players that they deprive their mechanics the actual point of enjoyment with action battle systems which is a sense of reward and growth.
I feel one major change that would really benefit the battle system is if everything required the ATB bar, including your basic attack, blocking, and dodging. That would have completely changed some of the battles if you had to seriously manage your ATB bar like it was a stamina gauge.
I don't doubt that the final product will have a few real challenges in them, but I also feel strongly that these challenges will largely be isolated experiences in a sea of mediocrity, which is unfortunately typical of RPGs in general. I don't imagine the demo is going to be radically changed from the final version of that section. It really feels to me like it will be the FFX demo all over again with a straight port of just the first section of the game.
I do disagree about the VIII demo. Though I feel this is more about which demo you're playing since I know there are slight variations based on whether you're playing the U.S. or PAL version of it, and whether its the PlayStation version vs. the PC version. While you certainly have access to more stuff than your typically would by that point, you also have no access to the Junction system and Draw is limited to a maximum of three per spell. So I actually do feel the demo version of VIII is much more challenging than the final product simply because you have no direct access to the system that actually makes the game easy.
1) I'm so glad you're not a game designer. I've never completed Dark Souls in part because it's so brutal from so early on. It's better when games ease you into their systems, especially when they have complex mechanics. Which to be fair even Dark Souls does do, relatively speaking, it just the starting point is much higher up the difficulty scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
2) I found the VII demo way harder than DMCV's tutorial, why does DMC get away with it?
It seems like your only actual issue with the the demo was too many healing items. As you said, when you 'Leeroy Jenkins'd everything you had to use an extra 7 potions. Seems to me like if the mechanics of the game didn't actually matter, you would have used the same number of potions each time. If the game had given you 6 potions instead of 16, you'd have died. I, too, hope the game is somewhat less generous when the tutorial is over. I'm not a super hardcore action game player, but I like having to be tactical and engaging with the mechanics.
...Apart from Turbo Ethers. I have to save all my turbo ethers for when I REALLY need them and thus finish the game with 99 of them.
I also think you're looking at this from slightly the wrong lens. This isn't really an action battle system, it's a real-time RPG. Yes there are some elements of positioning and timing, but mostly it's a resource management game. There's no skill involved in doing my Braver attack, I just choose it from the menu. RPG combat is all about managing which bars are full and which bars are empty at any given time, and VII is no different.
Judging from the trailers, he loses the shades during a key event. I reckon they might be an equippable accessory anyway - in earlier gameply demos they showed the full menu screens, and Barret's character model doesn't have the glasses on that screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
I always find it amusing how divisive the idea of me being a professional game designer is for people. I may have mention this before, but the first game I ever coded was impossible to win by design. My instructor was rather amused. :wcanoe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Honestly Dark Souls isn't difficult. The biggest hurdle I feel most players need to overcome with the series is basically realizing how trivial death is in this game and not losing their trout when it happens. I mean it actually feels nice to just take minor setbacks in stride, and that's pretty much the real learning curve of the Souls franchise outside of PvP nonsense. I don't even feel like the games have a high learning curve as much as they simply require approaching them with a different outlook than a Pass/Fail mindset.Quote:
I've never completed Dark Souls in part because it's so brutal from so early on. It's better when games ease you into their systems, especially when they have complex mechanics. Which to be fair even Dark Souls does do, relatively speaking, it just the starting point is much higher up the difficulty scale.
I have not had a chance to play DMCV, so I'm basing this really more on DMC1/3.Quote:
2) I found the VII demo way harder than DMCV's tutorial, why does DMC get away with it?
There are certainly too many potions in the demo, but even the rare times I came close to losing a character, and its almost always just one of them being close to dying, I honestly just never noticed until Cloud started whining at me about his wounds and I saw he was in the red. I mean Cloud starts with 3x as much health as he did in the original and both party members take hits like a champ. It seemed like it took forever to get either down that far. Even then, most of my potion use was between battles and I almost never topped the party off like I did the first time, so technically I used more the first time around due to OCD rather than because playing with skill matters.The fights still felt like they took about the same time, so I can't exactly say I feel staggering opponents is actually rewarding.Quote:
It seems like your only actual issue with the the demo was too many healing items. As you said, when you 'Leeroy Jenkins'd everything you had to use an extra 7 potions. Seems to be like if the mechanics of the game didn't actually matter, you would have used the same number of potions each time. If the game had given you 6 potions instead of 16, you'd have died. I, too, hope the game is somewhat less generous when the tutorial is over. I'm not a super hardcore action game player, but I like having to be tactical and engaging with the mechanics.
I have spent the last few years finally breaking myself away from conserving items anymore in games, cause I always did that silly "save it for when its actually an emergency" and likewise ended the game with a bunch of powerful items maxed out. I think SMTIV finally broke me out of the habit because they would limit how many of the really powerful items you could hold, and would prevent you from opening treasure chests if you already had the item maxed out. So I had to basically have my two RPG OCD traits battle it out to see which was more OC. Unopened treasure chests won.Quote:
...Apart from Turbo Ethers. I have to save all my turbo ethers for when I REALLY need them and thus finish the game with 99 of them.
Actually the problem I generally have with action-rpgs is that I hate how they try to create a fusion of two very different gameplay styles, because they usually fail to appeal to either. The game is more interactive and gives you more reactionary commands, but the difficulty curve is usually so low that the skill based mechanics are simply not rewarding cause they don't really matter. The RPG command based mechanics are also never rewarding because the core action commands are usually just as efficient to get the job done, completely negating resource management based design, which frankly is an issue in even modern turn-based RPGs.Quote:
I also think you're looking at this from slightly the wrong lens. This isn't really an action battle system, it's a real-time RPG. Yes there are some elements of positioning and timing, but mostly it's a resource management game. There's no skill involved in doing my Braver attack, I just choose it from the menu. RPG combat is all about managing which bars are full and which bars are empty at any given time, and VII is no different.
I hardly ever used Braver because it was useless. Why waste the ATB bar on a skill that does slightly more damage than your basic Punisher combo? Even the Thrust move used to increase Stagger feels arbitrary cause staggering an opponent simply means you get 30 seconds of free hits on an enemy that would still not be able to do enough damage to actually be a threat. If the combat was really about ATB bar management, then they should have either treated it like a stamina bar and linked all actions to it like I suggested earlier, or they need to make those moves actually worth using with Staggering being more important by making the enemies a bigger threat. Even with magic, I felt Cloud's Fire magic was only useful for giving me an options not to switch to Barret. Even the fact the normal guards are extremely weak to it never tempted me to use it on them since it was a waste of my time considering how easily your basic attacks tore through them. So its not about having too many healing potions or not getting this is an RT RPG. It's about the moves not carrying enough weight to them, either due to poor results cause several enemies are too tanky for their own good, or because the enemies are not challenging enough for me to waste it on them. Its about my party having too much health that even the Guard Scorpion has to put in real effort to tear them down or I have to be purposely playing recklessly to notice.
My overall issue is that I never felt like my party was ever in danger and everything felt pretty effortless on my part. There is no tension in combat because my party's stats are too high to put them in direct danger, and my skill set isn't important enough to really matter, which just kind of made combat boring for me. Granted, I will fully admit that I am simply incredibly picky about action-rpg combat system. I feel if a game is going to try this hybrid system, I'd rather they do a 80/20 split for one side or the other than try to make it even, cause it never works out otherwise due to the enjoyment of both systems coming from very different places. I simply hope that SE might do what Aulayna suggested and add a hard mode, cause if this is a taste of the overall game, it will need it.
In retrospect, I feel like the first encounter with the Sweeper was a missed opportunity here. It just seemed boring how you had to see it and then rush in to fight it, whereas I felt they could have added a bit of a stealth option here. Of anything, I really feel the devs should have taken some crib notes from The Last Story with how the party interacts with the environment, like letting Cloud have the option to duck behind walls and stuff causing the enemy to lose sight, and give the player the option for a stealthy first strike. Or let the Guard Scorpion dive above the battlefield onto some rafterd and give you the option to either strike the Guard Scorpion for minor damage or strike the rafters themselves to cause them to break and send the whole boss crashing down for high damage. Hell let us hit the reactor and cause it to spurt out Mako juice to cause environmental damage to the boss. The most disappointing thing about real time RPGs is how little they incorporate the environment as a tactical option.
He's the leader of an eco-terrorist group, so the sunglasses are probably a disguise. Once he puts them on he becomes unrecognisable as the same man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big DJudging from the trailers, he loses the shades during a key event. I reckon they might be an equippable accessory anyway - in earlier gameply demos they showed the full menu screens, and Barret's character model doesn't have the glasses on that screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
WK, I think you and I must have got a different version of the game. When I try playing in the manner you describe without exploiting the ATB or character switching, not making the most of stagger etc. it all goes to trout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
All I read are spoilers after spoilers.
I feel we just play differently and likely have different opinions of when a battle is going south. The only enemies that can actually do serious damage to your team when you're reckless are the Sweepers and the Scorpion Sentinel. Even then, you can still stagger them without using abilities, and magic just makes the fight go quicker. Everything else can be pretty much slaughtered with your basic combos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Replaying it a third time, I played even more recklessly than before and even made sure I got hit with the Tail Beam attack just to see how dangerous it is. I did uncover a hilarious exploit with the Guard Scorpion though. So here's a few new observations:
- I am really disappointed with Barret's Limit Break, I had to pretty much switch to him for a good while in the boss fight in order to make him a primary target long enough to actually raise his Limit Break. "Fire in the Hole", the name of his Limit, is just a new name for Heavy/Big Shot, nothing else. I shouldn't be surprised, but I did get my hopes up.
- Your MP actually regenerates on its own. Incredibly slowly, but it actually does regenerate if you just stand around for awhile. It will be interesting if the rate of regeneration is attached to your Spirit/Mind stats.
- Dodge Roll/Evade is only really useful against moves with limited range or have no tracking. It doesn't have invincibility frames, so don't think you can Souls/KH/CC your way through an attack with it. It is not as useful against machine gun fire from basic security guards unless you roll to the side from a straight on attack or roll by an obstacle that will interrupt the line of fire. This is made most obvious with the the fights with the Shock Troopers as all of their attacks have tracking and they will either hit you while you roll, or if you were able to roll away in time, they will simply follow you and then perform their attack when they get in range.
- Your party A.I. definitely falls into KH levels of stupidity. Their attack patterns are obviously set to only going after whatever is closest, they won't use magic even when its obviously the only option such as leaving Cloud to fight a Sentry Ray, and I don't think they even really use abilities much either. I switched to Barret in the boss fight and was drawing away its 99 Missile Attack away from Cloud in hopes the A.I. would deal with the Barrier section, and Cloud just kept being dumb and doing frontal assaults that kept getting interrupted by the barrier, so he wasn't even targeting the barrier device. Switching to Cloud made Barret run over to the boss, putting both characters in range of its missile barrage blast zone. Likewise, neither of them are terribly aggressive in fights, usually waiting between combos for a few seconds longer than I feel is necessary. Like KH's basic setup, its obvious the A.I. is designed to make you do all of the work. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm going to be curious if the main game is going to give the player a means to do some limited A.I. control over party members or if the main game is going to have more competent and aggressive A.I.
- In the Guard Scorpions second phase, after you deal with both its barriers if you don't knock it into its final phase, almost all of its attacks are reactionary and only counter physical attacks by the player controlled character. I trout you not, the boss will just stand their passively as Barret fires off a few meager shots from his gun, and Cloud can just stand a distance away and use Fire magic and the boss will never retaliate and it will not do any attacks. In fact it seems like the majority of the enemy A.I. is designed to target the player controlled character unless you move out of its aggro range and then it might go after another party member. This seems to ring true with other phases, as the boss will only limit itself to one of its weaker group hitting attacks while most of its powerful close range strikes are used for countering aggressive close range fighting.
- The Tail Beam does hurt a lot, probably the most single damage (about 630hp) I saw anything do in the demo, but you can actually survive it easily at full health. Granted, I think it could potentially multi-hit you if you're unlucky to be knocked into its path after the initial hit, but I haven't seen this yet. The Scorpion Sentinels true dangerous attack is its six hit Scorpion Strike attack it will do if you're silly enough to linger too long behind it. This is probably the only attack that can outright kill a character in the demo, and that's only if you somehow were unlucky enough to get hit by most of the strikes, which doesn't seem likely considering you get a reasonable amount of invincibility frames when you're knocked off your feet, but it may still be possible. Granted, this move is telegraphed and doesn't have much tracking when it starts, so its easy to avoid.
- I'm not sure if I simply never noticed this the previous times, if this was just a weird RNG thing, or if I may have done something in the demo differently enough to have it appear; but I found a strange key item called the Moogle Medal while escaping the reactor with Jessie. Not sure what it does, part of me is wondering if this might be something that can be transferred to the main game for a perk, or if this is just a useless item in the main game that will do diddly squat for finding it in the demo.
- After listening to it some more, I really dislike the Remakes version of "Fight On" not only does it fail to really stand out to the rest of the orchestrated OST, but it really doesn't invoke much of that adrenaline rush of the original. It loses a lot of its hard rock vibe by going full orchestra. I actually didn't even realize it played during the boss fight until I noticed it while exploiting the boss A.I. for free hits.
- To end this on a more positive note, I feel the smartest move in the demo was having the Thunder and Cure Materia on Barret instead of Cloud. The reason being that it will either force you to switch to Barret in fights more often, or in my case since I'm an aggressive ass, force me to use the Command Menu to issue orders to Barret to actually use his magic materia. This is why I'm not as bothered by the party A.I. kind of being ho-hum cause its forcing you to control everyone and dictating orders which means you have more control than usual in these styles of games. Maybe not FFXII good, but at least I feel more confidant about my success and failure being my fault over say... FFXIII's botched A.I. where you may learn too late how easy it is for the enemy to send them into a negative A.I. loop that makes them useless in fights. If I have a concern, its just how overwhelming this might all be when you finally get a third party member thrown into the mix. I fear this may lead into some Star Ocean level shenanigans where you'll either never use certain characters because the A.I. is not good enough with them, or more likely that you'll have to accept having certain characters always playing sub par because its more useful to be using the other character. I mainly thinking about how Aerith is going to play, because I can see her being the type of character where you're going to get the most mileage out of her by controlling her directly, but that means leaving Cloud to the A.I. and as the demo has shown me, he's a little thick and not aggressive enough considering he's a powerful wrecking ball of a fighter. This may end up being similar to the Claude/Dias dilemma in SO2 or Abel/Maria problem in SO3. This might not be a problem if there is some means of programming the A.I. in the final version which I fully expect.
If that were the only version of Those Who Fight Further in the game I would be a bit disappointed, but as it is I know for sure that it is not, and there are more versions to look forward to that are more in the style that you remember. I thought the version that played during the Scorpion fight was fine for what it was, a cinematic, set-piece version for your first boss, dynamically changing as you go through the phases. It's also technically not gone full orchestra by the way, there are a couple of banging hard rock moments in there. It's also interesting as it mixes in some of the Bombing Run theme.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
One of the things I'm looking forward to in the full game is all the different variations on the old music. I've already heard... it must be 4 versions of Those Who Fight, two of Those Who Fight Further, and the Mako reactor shows that there are battle variations of certain location themes as well.
As much as I do love this excellent battle system overall, I do hope we get a little bit more control over the AI in the full version. As you say WK, it doesn't need to be gambit levels of detail, hell I don't think they even need to use any of their abilities automatically. Just the ability to designate a target would be great, maybe with a 'Use/Don't Use' option on the triangle ability, just so I can get Barret to focus on the high up enemies while I use Cloud to stagger those pesky Shock Troopers.
Good to know there are more themes to look on. I feel the two tracks I'm looking forward to the most are J-E-N-O-V-A and the Main Theme.
I imagine the main game will have some kind of A.I. control. It will probably be introduced when they finally let you have control of materia placement as well, so I'm not quite as worried about this aspect. I would actually be all for a Gambit style system, just maybe one that only give me three to five slots as opposed to the ten in XII. Perhaps limit it to how many battle use materia you have equipped. Though I imagine it will be closer to KH's party A.I controls.
I'm also wondering if support or independent materia will be used to augment moves like Evade and Defend. I already have a feeling Cover will be replaced with a materia that does the Decoy effect instead.
I also imagine that Summon materia, due to their new mechanics, will likely be a one per person deal like VI and XIII. It will be interesting to see if they'll have any customization options in terms of A.I. Thinking of how they work now, I can only imagine how much bulltrout KotR is going to be in this game, though we probably won't know until Episode 7.
The biggest thing I'm curious about is how the game is going to handle having more than three characters on the field? In the trailers, we've seen Cloud being part of the group while escaping the Shinra building by the elevator, so I'm wondering if the player is limited to three active party members, but may have the option to switch one out for a reserve party member like in X or XII? Granted, like the original, its also very likely this won't be explored until Episode 2 because they may simply keep the scenario written in a way where the full party is never with you.
I thought the demo was really fun. I like the combat changes, it's kind of like a blend of Kingdom Hearts and FFVII. I appreciate that it plays so differently from the original, thus keeping the original as a unique gaming experience. I thought Cloud was more fun to play though I appreciated that Barret played very differently and was useful for flying enemies or getting quick ATBs for Cure.
I thought Cloud and Barret were very well portrayed. I loved that scene in the elevator where Barret was spewing his idealisms. I didn't mind some of the story changes, it again just means it is still worthwhile to play the original to see the differences.
My only concern at this point is the episodic nature of these games. The bombing mission played out almost exactly like it did before and took as much time, or even less, than I remember it. Since this first game is just in Midgar (which is about 10% of the whole story? or less?), what do they plan to do to make this a "full game experience"? Also how many of these do they plan to do? Seems like at least 3-4 games are needed and I'm not sure I want to fork out $240+ just to play FFVII.
In 25 years you can get it on a $30 bundle on [PC gaming platform]!
I feel the demo is actually longer than the original. I mean the Scorpion Sentinel lasts like fifteen minutes lone in the demo, and considering the timer in the original was around ten minutes instead of the generous 20 to 30 given here, I'd say it was about twice as long as the original. Unless of course you're the type of person who likes to grind that early in the game.
Though this did remind me how the demo is a little over 7GBs large and the final game will be over 70GB, meaning we may have played the first tenth of the game, assuming the demo is not carrying a bunch of extra stuff from the full game that is locked out of course. I'm not really as concern about the length, as I feel the game was probably going to safely hit the 30-35 hour mark for a basic run. Probably longer for a completionist run. My real concern is how they are going to fill that time, cause as I've argued in the past, Midgar originally can take anywhere from five to ten hours to complete in the original, and now we're going to stretch that out to an average game length of 30ish hours.
As for how many episodes this is going to be, I'm still assuming it will be four or five total. I can foresee them dragging it out to seven, but realistically, four or five sounds about right. I feel the real judge of how they're going to go about this will come with Episode 2 when they have to deal with the first real story lull in the plot. It may also come down to whether the Nibelheim Flashback will still take place in Kalm like the original, or if fan speculation is true and they moved it into Episode 1. If the flashback takes place in Kalm, then I can see the second Episode only carrying us slightly past the Junon arc as they have a lot of material to work with and to expand with both the flashback and Junon scenario. It comes down to how much they want to expand the scenario I guess.
All I know is when that pizza falls I am going to care this time :cry:
Does anyone know if there's a bonus that carries through from completing the demo into the main game? I have not touched this because I want my first experience to be with the main game.
As far as I know, no. I haven't heard anything about any perks for playing the demo, you can't even save in it so its probably a safe bet that there is no reward for picking it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Nothing carries over into the main-game but you'll get a FF7R PS4 theme at release for completing the demo before April 10th.
That's kind of hot.
The demo was good. The battle system is engaging, but the only issue I have is with the camera sometimes when playing Barret and trying to target sentry units. I talked about this more in my YouTube video, but overall good trout, but I'm still worried about the episodic thing with the pacing.
I finished the demo, I didn't get my theme.
Also the camera does suck, it's really hard but if you just slow down it's not bad. I find if I got stuck in the corner beating the trout out of a soldier, I could just switch my characters to get a full view of the enemies. But the camera is quite finicky, you really have to keep you're eye out on the entire battlefield. .
I believe the Theme unlocks on the full game's release date.Quote:
Originally Posted by jenovajunkie
Oh, boooooooooo smurf that. I'll just stick with my Boderlands 3 screenshots.
I played the demo again today and I just realized that you can bring up the Menu like in the original game. I'm actually surprised I never pressed pause in my last two playthroughs and you can even adjust the camera sensitivity. It made the camera a little better for me this time.
And that's how it's done, make the game work for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Depression Moon