Logic + FFVIII = Error. (Concerning Irvine's gun)

I apologize if this has already been posted. If so, delete it.

I've noticed a few things about Irvine's gun that lead me to believe it is some kind of super all-purpose gun. Let's review the facts...

Irvine was integrated into the party as a sniper.

Irvine's limit breaks sometimes involve him shooting off MANY rounds rather quickly.

Irvine's gun most closely resembles a shotgun.

... now, correct me if I'm wrong, but shotguns are crap for long-range and aren't capable of automatic fire...

*realizes most everyone hates Irvine and FFVIII is a game, so it doesn't have to be realistic*

OK, the above is true, but still... couldn't Square have taken the extra effort to changes guns' appearances?

Well he does use a sniper rifle when he does that (SPOILER)assassination thing.

He only uses the shotgun type gun in battle.

would you go into a battle with JUST a sniper rifle?

Is it just me or are some shotguns actually capable of automatic fire?

I do it all the time. Then again, I wouldn't be standing a mere six feet from my God of an opponent. I'd be FAR away, shooting at them with my trusty rifle of sniping +3.

Irvine's regular guns - not the sniper rifle, which was a one-off - are indeed quite strange.

If you input a command, then try to run from a battle, but [b]then[/i] stop running, Irvine re-loads his gun when he turns around. There, you can clearly see that it's a break-action design, like a shotgun.

It is possible to get guns that fire both conventional ammunition and shot pellets, but they're rare. Doesn't mean that they're unusual in FFVIII's world, though. I like the way Irvine's weapon can hande regular, armour-piercing, flame-throwing, poisonous and shotgun rounds, as well as the WMD-class Pulse Ammo.

Doesn't explain why he can fire so many times in quick succession - as with Quick Shot - without having to reload. Since his gun has a break-action reload, that suggests it has a rather limited capacity...

But then, maybe it takes a magazine, which fits into the space behind the chamber when he reloads?

That'd explain a few things.

Well if we're gonna get technical it might be worth noticing he doesn't actually need ammo if he isn't using a limit break.

The same goes for Squall, who always reloads before performing Renzokuken, but never at any other time.

Nice points, D. Yeah, it IS possible for shotguns to fire both shot and slug ammo, and the poison rounds could have something to do with filling a hollow-point slug if you want to get THAT into it...

... on the whole, though, I'd say Irvine just has the best gun in history.

It's just a very versatile weapon, combining the most useful elements of other types of firearm. A hybrid, if you will; kind of like gunblades.

The game is set in the future. Y ou don't think they'd be able to upgrade shotguns a little bit?

I wouldn't say the game's set in 'the future'. It's not our world, after all.

Some of their technology is more advanced than ours, certainly, but some isn't quite as good. It's a whole other world with different societies and different histories, so some aspects of technology have progressed at different rates compared to our world.

Squall reloads before Renzokuken? Never noticed that...

As for Irvine, we've established that he uses a seperate sniper rifle should the need arise, and that indeed in battle he uses a form of shot-gun...

As an aside, I'm guessing he gained a liking for guns in general early on and tinted his training (SeeD and perhaps prior) to that general form of weapon...

The main question here seems to be the speed at which he fires in the limit breaks... Two thoughts on this...

Firstly, he has Fast Ammo for the fastest limit break, no? The name suggests this is specially designed to be fired more rapidly than other ammo... perhaps the shotgun has a secondary fire mechanism for smaller, less damaging ammo? Just one idea of how it could be done, I'll try to think up some more when I'm offline...

Secondly - magic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the haste spell appears in FF8, no? Is it possible that some kind of longer-lasting magic has been applied to the weapon? If we compare to other gunmen, such as Barret in 7, does he fire faster when he has haste? (If he doesn't maybe he should and they were just too lazy to speed up his sound effect?)

The combination of magic and technology should not be discounted, even if it is rather rare in FF and other games... I think this might go far enough to explain the normal fire-rate, whilst the special ammo and a special way of using it could explain the second... (Or, perhaps Fast Ammo (or whatever it was called) has even more magic in each round, to make the effect all the more...)

Hmm, I think applying logic to this is indeed going too far. After all, how do you explain that Irvine shoots harder when he gets stronger. It's not like he's throwing the bullets is he?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Is it just me or are some shotguns actually capable of automatic fire?

---

There r some auto-shotties...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor
Hmm, I think applying logic to this is indeed going too far. After all, how do you explain that Irvine shoots harder when he gets stronger. It's not like he's throwing the bullets is he?

---

I think the title of the strength attribute might be a little misleading here... rather than physical strength, let's think of it as combat strength (attacking ability, perhaps)... let me explain...

With your sword-swingers, you could argue that strength is strength. The more people they swing their sword at, the more their muscles grow. Simple.

However, the more times they swing their sword, the more they know what part of an enemy is a good part to strike, and how they should swing in order to connect to that point...

Rather than just growing stronger muscles, they are training their minds to make attacks that are effectively strongly.

With a ranged weapon like Rinoa's, it could be a similar thing as strength is involved in the weapon (I believe). However, with her, it would probably be more learning how to aim and fire well than actually increasing physical strength.

Now, with Irvine, we ignore physical strength completely. Why would Irvine get stronger by firing his shotgun anyway? I think in this case it could represent solely the growth of his skills with a shotgun...

For the strength of a weapon, a blade might be considered stronger if it were sharper, lighter (so easier to swing accurately), or the blade was of a special design, e.g. serated. Gloves too might be made sharper and have special blade design (if they have blades at all), or they might be designed to reduce the impact of a person's face on the user's fist and arms...

For guns, we are probably looking at a design that harnesses the explosion (required to propel a bullet) more efficiently, as well as a design that increases accuracy.

So, depending how literally you take "Strength", it may or may not make sense... I'd like to add that of course what has been said about Irvine's shotgun also largely applies to Squall's gun-trigger (is that the right name?) When Squall gains strength, the effectiveness of both his blade- and gun-components rises...

Although I do love thinking about this topic, I think a more important question is how do these peope remain standing after being shot, sliced or impaled?!

(FF7/8)(SPOILER)Okay, so some people survive being impaled by several spikes, whilst other can't even take a single sword through them... How's that fair?!

dude... its juss a game... if ur lookin at da errors... den look at dis: how does squall nd da others hold 100 potions???? plus 100 elixers... plus 100 ethers... u get my point....dey dun hab a backpack or nethin.... !!! also...how come squall doesnt run out of bullets in his gunblade?? see... juss a game... b4 square fixes irvine's gun error... dey should fix dese first...

I was going to come in here and be mean to you, but I decided against it (as I kind of like hanging around here, as opposed to being banned). So instead, I shall explain.

Whereas the phenomena of the characters storing tankloads of items in seemingly netherspace is a given (most RPGs have this phenomena so that you, the gamer, don't have to go back and forth to shops to buy stupid crap, or keep it in boxes like Resident Evil, which lowers the annoyance factor), something such as the mechanics of Irvine's weapon is an element that is more often explained than ignored, or just taken for granted.

... and yes, I realize it's just a game, but dammit, I'm just a gamer. Let me ask my questions.

Squall uses a gunblade, and you're talking about Irvine's gun.

...right. Anyway, I gathered that it being a different world and all, they'd just created a gun that could be used to that effect. Oh, and as for this bit:

Quote:

---

... now, correct me if I'm wrong, but shotguns are crap for long-range

---

I'd say that when you're twenty feet away from your opponent, a shotgun would make a rather nice amount of damage to him/her/it.

True, but that's about where it stops, whereas a true sniper rifle has the capacity to go 200yds. or more.

That's a bit beside the point now, as I've been told he used a sniper rifle in that scene anyway.

The whole game is an error.

:rolleyes2

So... you're basically just passing by this forum to say you don't like Final Fantasy, COMPLETELY loose from the topic? Wish I had as much time as that.

OMG U PHOUND ME OUT!!!1 U R SO SMRT I WNT 2 B JUZT LIK U LMAO!!!!!!1!!!1!1111!1

By the way, I think the word you're looking for is "lose."

OOC:	No more off topic posts, and no more sarcasm from either of you two, please. *grumpy face*

Now, back on topic...

urm, this may sound stupid but it may be a magic gun as they are in a world of Magic and it is a limit break, if I have repeated what someone said then sorry but it seems to make more sense that way. So maybe it was not an error after all?

Who cares? What's so cool about Final Fantasy is that it doesn't need to be realistic or logical. Irvine's gun is cool, simple as that.

you call people having tails(Zidane) or FFIX spoilerhaving kids while 9(Vivi) normal?

Edit by Big D: Please cover your spoilers in future, so that FFIX's ending won't be spoiled for anyone who hasn't played it yet :).