Rufus is Not a Bad Guy! (spoiler-ridden)

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10-30-2003, 12:18 AM
SeanFThomas

Rufus is Not a Bad Guy! (spoiler-ridden)

Yes, he is an antagonist, but he isn't a bad guy! It's just I see these things people say where they depict him as a villain. Here are my reasons.

1. Everything he does in the game, he does for the good of the people. He tries to defeat Sephiroth because he's trying to destroy the world.

2. (Here comes a spoiler if you are new in the game or you suck) He's also trying to get Sephiroth for a personal vendetta because hey, Sephy DID kill Rufus's dad.

3. Rufus also goes after Weapon when it's doin' its thing, again, because Weapon is a danger to the people.

4. (Spoiler) The Huge Materia things, he's just trying to destroy Meteor before it destroys the population.

5. During his brief skirmish with Cloud, he was defending himself! Here was Cloud, this insano with a huge sword, prepared to kill Rufus just because he was the President of Shinra!

6. Rufus fled at the end of the fight not because he's a coward, but because who would lead Shinra if he died? Heidegger? Scarlet? I don't think he wanted those idiots running the world.

7. When he says he'll control the world with fear, he doesn't mean in a Hitler way. I think it may be a misunderstood translation, but listen to what he says after that. "Work at Shinra, get your pay. IF A TERRORIST ATTACKS, the Shinra Army will help you." He'll control the world by being the savior of people's fears.

8. Rufus never actually says that he wants Cloud's death as an objective. If you do the Yuffie sidequest (spoiler) and the Turks have just done away with Don Corneo, Reno gets a call from HEIDEGGER to find Cloud. Not Rufus.

9. (big spoiler) When Rufus takes the Junon gun, or Sister Ray*, and puts it in Midgar, you see his objectives? He's not trying to kill Cloud! He inadvertantly HELPS Cloud by destroying the barrier! So in my opinion, Rufus doesn't deserve the dogging he gets!

*Funny thing about Sister Ray, by the way. After the gun's in Midgar, Scarlet names the gun Sister Ray. But (spoiler) when Tifa is running away from Scarlet and the soldiers on the gun, you see that the words "Sister Ray" are already on the gun!
10-30-2003, 12:37 AM
Prince-magus

huh... i never really though of it like that before. you bring up sevarel good points. I never thought he was much of a bad-guy. enemy yes. but bad-guy that would kinda be pushin it.
well thought out.
10-30-2003, 12:47 AM
zacks_clone

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7. When he says he'll control the world with fear, he doesn't mean in a Hitler way. I think it may be a misunderstood translation, but listen to what he says after that. "Work at Shinra, get your pay. IF A TERRORIST ATTACKS, the Shinra Army will help you." He'll control the world by being the savior of people's fears.

Actually,I'd go back and check on that one.Im almost certain he ment he would controll the world WITH fear,not controll the world OF fear.he was talking about Shinras lies to cloud and company i think.perhaps im wroung.i'll need to look it over again.other then that,i agree with you totaly
10-30-2003, 01:19 AM
Shoeberto

Re: Rufus is Not a Bad Guy! (spoiler-ridden)

Quote:

Originally posted by SeanFThomas
7. When he says he'll control the world with fear, he doesn't mean in a Hitler way. I think it may be a misunderstood translation, but listen to what he says after that. "Work at Shinra, get your pay. IF A TERRORIST ATTACKS, the Shinra Army will help you." He'll control the world by being the savior of people's fears.

Actually, I'm pretty sure when he says that he's referring to his father's way of running the world with money.

Otherwise, it does make sense. I just can't help but think of him as a brat.
10-30-2003, 01:30 AM
TheAbominatrix

Re: Rufus is Not a Bad Guy! (spoiler-ridden)

Quote:

Originally posted by SeanFThomas
Yes, he is an antagonist, but he isn't a bad guy! It's just I see these things people say where they depict him as a villain. Here are my reasons.

1. Everything he does in the game, he does for the good of the people. He tries to defeat Sephiroth because he's trying to destroy the world.

I don't think he does anything for anyone, really. Obviously if Sephiroth wins, then he loses. I doubt he's thinking of anyone but himself. I didnt see him doing anything like helping his people, or the like.

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2. (Here comes a spoiler if you are new in the game or you suck) He's also trying to get Sephiroth for a personal vendetta because hey, Sephy DID kill Rufus's dad.

I doubt that, Rufus didnt seem to care much that papa was dead. He didnt seem to like his father at all, and Sephiroth actually did Rufus a favorite by killing the president.

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3. Rufus also goes after Weapon when it's doin' its thing, again, because Weapon is a danger to the people.

He goes after Weapon because Weapon is a danger to HIM. And to his investments. If Weapon destroys Midgar, not only does he die if he's still there, but he loses all the military equipment Midgar now doubt has. If he cared so much about his people, he would have cared about the other weapons roaming about.

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4. (Spoiler) The Huge Materia things, he's just trying to destroy Meteor before it destroys the population.

Indeed. If it kills everyone, who is he going to rule over?

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5. During his brief skirmish with Cloud, he was defending himself! Here was Cloud, this insano with a huge sword, prepared to kill Rufus just because he was the President of Shinra!

If he was only defending himself and not trying to win, he wouldnt have attacked.

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6. Rufus fled at the end of the fight not because he's a coward, but because who would lead Shinra if he died? Heidegger? Scarlet? I don't think he wanted those idiots running the world.

He ran to live. Simple.

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7. When he says he'll control the world with fear, he doesn't mean in a Hitler way. I think it may be a misunderstood translation, but listen to what he says after that. "Work at Shinra, get your pay. IF A TERRORIST ATTACKS, the Shinra Army will help you." He'll control the world by being the savior of people's fears.

I highly doubt that. He's ruling the world with sheer military force, as opposed to pretty politics and money like his father had done.

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8. Rufus never actually says that he wants Cloud's death as an objective. If you do the Yuffie sidequest (spoiler) and the Turks have just done away with Don Corneo, Reno gets a call from HEIDEGGER to find Cloud. Not Rufus.

Heidegger works for Rufus, you know. Rufus was using Cloud and the others, since they had the same goal of stopping meteor. That's why he didnt attempt to kill Cloud, and that's also why everytime the Turks ran into them, they didnt try and kill them.

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9. (big spoiler) When Rufus takes the Junon gun, or Sister Ray*, and puts it in Midgar, you see his objectives? He's not trying to kill Cloud! He inadvertantly HELPS Cloud by destroying the barrier! So in my opinion, Rufus doesn't deserve the dogging he gets!

His main objective was to destroy the barrier. That's why they aimed there. Why would they use such a massive weapon to kill a person?
10-30-2003, 01:34 AM
edczxcvbnm

Rufus is a bad guy. He is in opposition to your side therefore he is the enemy. Here is my counter to everything you said.

1) Not for the people but for himself. He wants power and you can't have anything if there is no world to control.

2) How does this not make him a bad guy?

3) Weapon is a danger to his power and control of the people. Defeat something like that and the people will love you. Let it destory everything and people will lose trust in your ability to protect them. It also serves as a deterrent for those who would oppose him.

4) And everything he just got! Sure the people would die but then there is no power or control over anything. Gotta try to stop it or else you lose it all.

5 & 6) I don't remember the fight too well. But he fled so that he didn't lose or else there goes all his ambition to gain control of EVERYTHING.

7) Didn't you just describe hitler's way of contolling people? Hitler didn't hurt his own people. They worked for him and he did his damnest to protect them. Thats why they all followed him. Sounds like Rufus to me.

8) Rufus controls Heidegger. Why would Heidegger even tell them to find cloud with out hearing it from Rufus. Its not like Heidegger has really run into cloud and the gang by that point. But Rufus has. Rufus is a busy man and can't tell every person every thing. Pass it off to someone and tell them to 'Deal with the problem'

9) I am sure his objective with that big cannon was to kill cloud in the most horrific way possible...pffffft. It was to try and kill sephiroth so that he could control the world. Sephiroth would control the world if he couldn't kill him. Its just another power struggle.
10-30-2003, 02:28 AM
Hanoi

I always thought of Rufus as a selfish character motivated only by his own need for power. Not an utter villain but someone whose own priorities came first...

AND remember... he did order Tifa and Barratt's execution.
10-30-2003, 02:28 AM
The Man

I'd post an argument against Rufus being good, but Ashley and ed already did a better job than I would have done so I just won't bother.

And yes, the fact that he ordered Tifa and Barret's execution just for the simple reason that he wanted a scapegoat pretty much solidified his being a villain, to me. Nowhere near as much a villain as Jenova, but a villain nonetheless.
10-30-2003, 03:02 AM
Strider

As Sean and Ashley have proven, it's all in how you look at it.

I think more people would choose "villain", though.
11-01-2003, 06:56 AM
Doomgaze

So he's a villain for ordering the execution of known terrorists?
11-01-2003, 10:52 AM
Heath

Actually I don't think Rufus went after Sephiroth for the murder of his Dad, seeing as how when Rufus first arrives you can talk to your party members and one of them says that no one has ever seen him shed a tear.
11-01-2003, 10:58 AM
Black Waltz No3

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Originally posted by Doomgaze
So he's a villain for ordering the execution of known terrorists?

"One mans Terrorist is another mans Freedom Fighter."

Anyway. Rufus is quite obviously a rather bad guy. In his little chat with Cloud on the balcony his speil about 'fear is all that is needed to control people' and that he isn't going to waste money on them is all we really need to hear. President Shinra was evil too. He used the ecenomic system to keep the people down as well as the Shinra army. But Rufus was a lot, lot more ruthless. He simply wanted more and more power, even if he would destory the world in the process.
11-01-2003, 01:52 PM
MJN SEIFER

I don't think he's *That* bad either! he just seams like a bad guy cause he's an enemy of Clouds and:

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when Rufus first arrives you can talk to your party members and one of them says that no one has ever seen him shed a tear.

That's actually Sephiroth.

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AND remember... he did order Tifa and Barratt's execution.

Did he? I thought Scarlet did that! HE just seamed more intrested in Weapon/Sephiroth

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He goes after Weapon because Weapon is a danger to HIM. And to his investments. If Weapon destroys Midgar, not only does he die if he's still there, but he loses all the military equipment Midgar now doubt has. If he cared so much about his people, he would have cared about the other weapons roaming about.

If Weaopon was a threat to him personaly he would have Aimed a Weapon but he didn't he was shooting Sephy, Weapon was simply killed by the force of the Cannon, NOT the Cannon it's self. and as for the other Weapons, They are Well hidden he probably didn't know about them. (Or maybe he was moved over to the UK version and didn't notced JK!)

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Why would Heidegger even tell them to find cloud with out hearing it from Rufus.

Heidegger has a Rebelious side, That is proved later on.
11-01-2003, 08:00 PM
Black Waltz No3

Nope. It is Rufus they are refering too. When he's tanding in front of the whole group, and you can go and talk to each of them, one of the points is that 'he has never shed a tear'.

Also, doesn't the reason he went after Sephiorth suggest the opposite to what you're thinking? He was after Sephiroth for the power it would get him. He watned the Promised Land for the Mako Energy. Weapon was sent to stop him as the planets protector.
11-02-2003, 07:36 AM
Doomgaze

Yes, his speech shows him as being evil, but after that he really never shows it. Well, other than not being very environmentally minded.
11-02-2003, 09:01 AM
Black Waltz No3

But as that speech fleshes out his character that is all we have to go on. We don't see him tending to Chocobo chicks or saving orphans. What we see is what we have to take with us.
11-02-2003, 05:16 PM
MagicKnight Locke

rufus is an emperor bent on ruling the world with fear and mako