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I have decided that this is the worst FF ever, since it has rubbish characters who are boring. A stupid magic system and a especially stupid plot. Ultimecia appears on Disc Three all of a sudden. Oh really?
FFIX is far greater than the so-far-up-it's-own-bumhole FF8. square got really pompous and released some trash. It was a silly mistake. I'm glad FF9 rescues the world from this crap.
Final fantasy8 is my second favourite in the series
and it just breaks my heart to see someone come with such a bold statement
"rubbish characters"
Lol alot better than ff9 characters they where indeed rubbish and a big mistake.
The character creation in ff8 was fantastic in every way.
Squall,seifer and selphie where wonderful and it just shows that Square is number1 in this business
"stupid magic system "
Maby because u never got a good control of it..
It worked great for me i beated Omega Weapon very easily and i thank this system.
"Ultimecia appears on Disc Three all of a sudden"
What a hell do u mean?
"FF9 rescues the world from this crap"
ROFL i rest my case
I doubt there will be much in the way of productive discussion here, but I am curious about something.
If you dislike FFVIII so much why are using Moombas in your name and avatar?
Or is your name a commentary on your feelings towards Moombas?
Ha, I was going to ask the same question. :)Quote:
Originally posted by BG-57
If you dislike FFVIII so much why are using Moombas in your name and avatar?
I'm in agreement that it is one of the worst Final Fantasies.
The characters in FFVIII are 2 dementional, flat, predictable and boring. Squall is always apathetic, Rinoa always cheery and Seifer always disgruntled. It reminds me of a kids' mid-afternoon soap opera with really bad actors. There is no character development and if a character changes it's like a night-to-day change where you wonder, "How the hell (or why the hell) did that happen?".Quote:
Originally posted by Ice_andmice
Lol alot better than ff9 characters they where indeed rubbish and a big mistake.
The character creation in ff8 was fantastic in every way.
Squall,seifer and selphie where wonderful and it just shows that Square is number1 in this business
The customization aspect of the magic system is great, but I found drawing spells from places, things and enemies to get tedious. If you could refine more magic from items it would have been a little more fun.Quote:
Originally posted by Ice_andmice
Maby because u never got a good control of it..
It worked great for me i beated Omega Weapon very easily and i thank this system.
So yeah, FFVIII isn't the worst, but I don't think it's the best. I could play through it again if I had to, but I would rather play through any of the other Final Fantasies first.
My opinion exactly, Mullet. I think VIII is the second worst (even though I don't like using that term, as none of them are BAD), compared to X. The worst part was the magic system...too weird.
Eh, matter of personal taste. I find that Squall's character has its depths. He gets angry when people try to manipulate him, he is loyal to SeeD, to the point of making SeeD part fo his identity, he has some sort of grudging respect for Seifer, etc. etc. I guess you only see these things if you care for a character. When I see how much some poeple think of the FFVI characters, who mean pretty little to me (even if some of the backgrounds are quite well done)
I also like that FFVIII has characters with relatiely normal backgrounds. Characters with seriously f'd up origins can be nice, but I thought it was refreshing to see some characters who deal with some more down to earth problems like 'being unable to get close to others'
All in all, to use a time honoured cliche 'to each their own' Final Fantasy VIII is the favourite game of a good many people (including me) (and don't go all 'they just like the purty pictures on me') So you cannot sya that Final Fantasy VIII is a bad game. It's just a game YOU don't like.
Justifications?
This posts seems like a random unfounded dig / troll post, so it's pretty surprising to see it still open.
It's quite amusing that you raise the sudden appearance of Ultimecia as an issue, yet hold FFIX in higher regard straight after that point. Like Necron wasn't totally out of the blue and unexplained??
Quote:
Originally posted by Cloudane
It's quite amusing that you raise the sudden appearance of Ultimecia as an issue, yet hold FFIX in higher regard straight after that point. Like Necron wasn't totally out of the blue and unexplained??
There's nothing amusing about it. I'll never say that Ultimecia was a good villain, because I don't think she was. However, she was supposedly the main villain of FF8, being there technically throughout the entire game, but only coming into play in the third disk. Necron wasn't the main villain of FF9. He was the final boss. Kuja was the main villain of FFIX and appears a little bit more than a full disk earlier than Ultimecia.
I've seen enough of these stupid "I don't like this game" threads.
NOBODY CARES.
ff8 was just hard to get into. I had to force myself to get into it. If I didn't have such fond memories of ff7 and hopes that ff8 would turn into that I probably would not have kept on playing.
To put it simply. ff8 was living off of ff7's memory.
FFVIII in my opinion, is the best game I've ever played and has been ever since I bought it. But since you hate it so openly, I am inclined to agree with you. [/sarcasm]
I petition that we should ban all 'FFx game is sux' threads
THANK YOU :love: :love: :love: <3 <3 <3Quote:
Originally posted by Advent Child
I've seen enough of these stupid "I don't like this game" threads.
NOBODY CARES.
I petition that we should ban any 'this game sux' thread when the game has FIFTY THOUSAND OTHER THREADS SAYING THE EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Agreed, especially when the thread is unfounded. now if she'd actually just put effort in it, by balancing her opinion with a good arguement, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but this is a waste of space. Tell me Stupid Moomba, whats the f***ing point with putting FF8 sucks, when you clearly haven't thought about it and have just tried to start a arguement?Quote:
I petition that we should ban any 'this game sux' thread when the game has FIFTY THOUSAND OTHER THREADS SAYING THE EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
I did one of thse ages ago on FFIX, and I actually put effort in my answers, putting reasosn and comapring. I did actually have some points I liked. Seriously, you've just released some tripe. I'd like to see how you can expand on your original "FF8 suks" crap. Seriously, i'm waiting for a decent answer.
Since i might as well put my Two-peneth.....
FF8 is possibly the greatest RPG in the eintire world in my opinion. It actually had the balls to shatter some RPG staples, making it a revolution. Some people don't like change, some do. I embraced this one. Like all revoloutionary things, people will initially hate it. Peniciillain, moon Landing, cloning...all were treated with hostility simply because it pushed the boundaries of what we know. FF8 did that as well, and hostility is expected.
It had deep characters, who are quite normal instead of being so "eh?" and their background, although not as diverse as FFVI, it brought a sort of friendly feel, that they were all friends, rather than being allies in defeating a greater power. So what if they were moody, Cloud was moody too. They were Teenagers, so they were expected to have teenager problems.
It's magic system was gigantically deep, far greater then the equip-weapon-learn-this in FFIX which had been used in FFVI (Summons), FFVII (Materia), so it wasn't new or made a fresh new approach to the game. it made it feel like a re-hash.
I did a "I hate FFIX" early on despit having a Vivi avatar. it means nothing.Quote:
If you dislike FFVIII so much why are using Moombas in your name and avatar?
Stupid Moomba, please actually have a decent arguement if you re-post, and i suggest that you do, because if you don't then you'll look like such a n00b, which is lame, becasue I know you are not.
Don't degrade yourself
I didnt like VIII, myself.
For one, I felt the characters were very shallow and had no motivation for the changes they went through (mainly Squall). The game made it very clear that only Squall and Rinoa mattered, and their entire relationship was ridiculous. I enjoyed Quistis, but she was pushed to the back and ignored for most of the game.
The draw system was neat and innovative, but it took just a little too much time. I dont like having to sit there and draw, draw, draw. If you could draw more than one at a time, that'd be more fun.
The battle system, other than that, was decently fun. I liked having to draw the summons. The game, aside from the storyline, was just fun, I just liked the way it flowed, but for me a game is all about story, and when you're with characters you just cannot stand, its not any fun.
The card game rocked though.
Oh, and Square's decision to include an entire segment you could only access with a Japanese-only Pocket Station was a HUGE piss off. I hate when stuff like that happens.
I didnt feel IX was that much better, but that's a whole nother issue. VIII should be judged by its own merits, and not compared to another game. If it sucks, it sucks. But dont go around trying to compare it to other games. Its not IX, it will never be IX, and IX has nothing to do with VIII.
Saying 'this game sucks' is annoying. If you dont like it, fine. But try and make it sound like you have a valid reason if you decide to share it with us.
FFVIII is definitely one of my least favorite RPGs in general. True, I don't hate it more than Legend of Dragoon (nor do I think it is possible for me to hate a game more than that one), but it would still rank just about as low as it can go on my list of favorite RPGs.
Yes, I understand Square was trying something new with this game. Hell, I appreciate that. Square needs to do more innovationg, but in the case of FFVIII, those innovations just didn't pay off.
For example, FFVIII was the first one which really centered on the love story more than anything else. I really didn't have a problem with that. I'm a romantic guy at heart, and I can handle a good love story so long as it was believable and well done, two things which the love story in FFVIII was not (unless you want to talk about Laguna/Raine, but I digress). The love story depended on two characters, and Squall and Rinoa were just not up to the task of delivering.
First off, we have Squall which is a decent character for a lot of the game. Sure, he was an ass to pretty much everyone, but I was used to that from Cloud in FFVII so no big deal. Ok, he doesn't want anyone ever getting closed to him because his "sis" left the orphange he was in when he was younger. Ok, that's a pretty big stretch there but I'll let that go. He throws himself into SeeD because we assume that it is something to believe in. That's fine, someone with no friends would commonly throw himself into his work. Then enter Rinoa. She confuses him about 99% of the time with what she says and does. We consistantly see evidence of this in his thoughts. But where's the attraction to her? Sure, they may be snippets of thoughts here and there but there is not enough internal dialogue to prove to me that he sees her as anything more than a pest of nuisance. He suddenl only really shows that he cares when Rinoa goes comatose, and I wouldn't mind that so long as the character's dialogue showed him starting down that path when he first met her. But I didn't get that at all. I understand the concept of someone not realizing what they have until they're faced with the possibility of losing it, but I don't agree with damn near an entire love story being based on that belief.
Then to add more fuel to the fire by stating that I absolutely hate Rinoa. I mean, I have never seen a more selfish, impulsive, naïve girl in an RPG before in my life. From conducting plans while sitting on the floor of her train to being upset when she doesn't get her way to throwing a tantrum when the obviousness of a situation is presented to her in cold hard fact. She reminds me of a little girl who you have to hold hands with all the time and cries when she doesn't get her way. Granted, she does change a little bit as the game goes on, especially when she is comatose. I'm sorry, but I found nothing positive about her character, and the fact that the love story involves her is one of the reasons I hate it so. Like I mentioned earlier, I consider the Raine and Laguna love story to be better, and it only had about a half hours worth of dialogue and FMV at the end to support it, and I found that so much better and much more believable than Rinoa/Squall.
And lets not forget the other characters who take a backseat to Rinoa and Squall. With the exception of Laguna, none of the other characters get any kind of decent treatment with the exception of the exact same backstory. Let's not forget, these kids are the Fated Children, and the all happened to grow up at the same orphange. What else is there to these characters? Zell's hometown gets invaded. Ok he wants to kick their asses. What else...oh wait that's it as far as Zell goes. Then there's Selphie who's Garden she was at before coming to Balamb was attacked and pretty much reduced to rubble. But she's ok again pretty soon and nothing else is said about it. We've got Mr. Arrogant sharpshooter Irvine who, apparently, can't actually pull the trigger when he needs to, but minutes later gets over it and finally pulls the trigger. Anything else about Irvine...nope. And then there's Quistis. Ok, she thinks she has an infatuation with Squall, but not really she's apparently only trying to take Ellone's place. She also apparently can't say something mean to someone without the need to apologize, despite possibly ruining her assignment. Well that pretty much says everything about her.
But that's alright, I can withstand a plot I don't believe in and shoddy character so long as the gameplay is good. Oh wait, this is FFVIII, so I can't really do that. Like I said, I enjoy innovation, but whoever thought the idea of the battle system actually penalizing you for using magic deserves never to have any say in the development of games in the future. Because that's what FFVIII's gameplay did, it actually penalized you for using magic. Why? The Junction System. Now, I like the idea of junctioning to Guardian Forces to be able to access abilities (except for the Item command, which I think is stupid being it leads me to believe a character can use a potion with the GF's help but I digress). I thought that was a good idea. Junctioning magic to increase your stats? Hey, that wasn't a bad plan either. Horribly executed? Oh hell yeah it was. The idea that my character's stats would actually be lowered by using junctioned magic in battle was the stupidest thing I could ever imagine. I've never seen and RPG that acutally penalized you for the use of magic, and as a result of that, would damn near force the user to abandon using magic, which I did because I'm a stats whore and I didn't like to see my stats lowered for using magic, nor did I particularly care for finding a draw point for the magic I used so I can have a maximum supply too. And there's drawing too which is so mind numbingly boring its beyond description. Thank God for Triple Triad and the ability to refine the cards you won. The only problem with this method is that you'd still need to draw the higher level magic cause it'd take forever to get the cards you need to finally refine it, and drawing the Ultima spells from the Ultima weapon is not my idea of a fun time, nor do I find it particulary well thought out.
And that's quite enough from me I think.
Really? This thread is getting a lot of replies for no one caring.Quote:
Originally posted by Advent Child
I've seen enough of these stupid "I don't like this game" threads.
NOBODY CARES.
Well, FFVIII was the first RPG I ever played. Therefore, I wasn't biased in any way with opinions about RPG's. I was a tabla rasa if you will (blank slate).
Anyway, I really enjoyed FFVIII. I think the characters were more dimensional than some people let on. But I don't care to elaborate because I don't care to read about why this game sucks, and I'm sure you FFVIII-haters feel the same, so I'll just say that I really liked the game.
Oh, and actually, I DON'T care. There will always be people who love the game, and there will always be people who hate it. Why should it matter to me if somebody dislikes a game I like? There are much more important things to worry about, like how to eliminate the random rule in Triple Triad. ^_^, just kidding.
A lot of people care because people often care when someone makes an extremist statement about anything controversial. And FFVIII is.
But I feel this thread should be about more than why we like or dislike the game.
I'd be more interested to hear if anyone has actually changed their mind about FFVIII (or any game for that matter) based on someone else's argument.
I have learned to not let people's opinions change my views about things, especially games. personally, i don't really hate any game in the final fantasy series. sure, some of them get boring after a while when you can't figure out some puzzle, or maybe they are a little longer than we had hoped, but overall i think that no matter how good any video game is, there are always going to be those lousy parts, and we have two decisions, to either look only at that bad part and give the entire game a bad rating, or we can look at the rest of the game and think "hey, that wasn't that bad of a game". one example comes to mind, the stupid forced laughing scene in FFX, i have to admit that was pretty pathetic, but i didn't let that one stupid part ruin the rest of the game. Some games have more crappy parts than others, but it is up to us determine whether we want to pass judgement on the good parts or bad parts of a game.
wow thats a troll post if i ever saw one..
Quote:
Originally posted by Advent Child and quite possibly lots of people out there
I've seen enough of these stupid "I don't like this game" threads.
NOBODY CARES.
People keep saying that "nobody cares," but there seems to be a lot of people posting in this thread that do care.
I, for one, do care that FFVIII is complete and utter rubbish, and that's my opinion. I don't have to justify my opinion.
American Badboy, that is quite possibly one of the most accurate descriptions of ffVIII i have ever heard. it should go into gamefaqs review for ffVIII. as accurate as the description may be, i quite liked ffVIII alot, i have no idea why i must be crazy or somthing. so to sum it up im saying that i agree with what you said, but with a more positive outlook.
*Shakes my head over all the thoughts that FF8 is the best RPG ever, then promptly grabs my Planescape Torment-box and beats people silly*
Now, I can live with people appreciating FF8, but a simple fact of life is that Planescape Torment is ten times the RPG FF8 is. (For starters, its properties as an RPG can't be debated, while the RP-ing elements in FF8 aren't in any abundance.)
*Thoroughly agrees with American Badboy.*
How dumb is you? That's not a fact of life, that's your opinion!Quote:
Silent Warrior:
a simple fact of life is that Planescape Torment is ten times the RPG FF8 is.
You don't have to justify it, and I don't have to listen to it. Especially from some one who has anything to do with France. :mad2:Quote:
DocFrance:
that's my opinion. I don't have to justify my opinion.
Ah, but you did! If you didn't want to listen to it, you wouldn't have responded to my thread at all. I win again!Quote:
Originally posted by Squall04
You don't have to justify it, and I don't have to listen to it. Especially from some one who has anything to do with France. :mad2:
And I would justify my opinion, but it's been said by other people in this thread already. But I feel like talking about the character development, or lack thereof. Laguna was the only character who had any decent character development. None of the other characters changed at all, except for Squall, who changed from "Mr. Badass, whatever, I don't care about anyone" to "Oh, I love Rinoa more than life itself" at the drop of a hat! That's not good character development. Let's look at the other characters:
Rinoa - selfish brat who wants to get back at daddy.
Zell - he beats things with his fists and eats hotdogs.
Quistis - icy cold, thinks she has a thing for Squall
Selphie - wants to make things look oh-so-pretty
Irvine - wants to bone Selphie, despite his performance anxiety
Seifer - a psychotic
Now, those character traits are great for a starting off point! In fact, that would make for a great story! The problem is, they don't change at all, despite events that happen that you would think would change them. The invasion of Balamb doesn't change Zell at all, Rinoa and Squall's love doesn't change Quistis at all, and the deaths of hundreds in the bombing of Trabia DON'T CHANGE SELPHIE AT ALL!
If anybody can come up with any decent changes to these characters over the course of the story, I will resign my point. Other than that, FFVIII is rubbish.
When I started to play games I hated RPG, but when I saw Final Fantasy VIII first time I changed my mind. Now I'm play in many RPG even "MMORPG" but the FF8 is the best of it (didn't had any chanse to see FF10 yet)
I finished FF9 only one time, but FF8 I'm starting 4th time.
If u dont like FF8 then i think that you dont have the soul of a RPG player.
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| Sory For not too good english |
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derman
If u dont like FF8 then i think that you dont have the soul of a RPG player.
That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard before. Because I don't like FF8, I don't have the soul of an RPG player? That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen before.
Let me give you a brief history lesson here. My first RPG was Super Mario RPG, and that was before I knew what a RPG even was. A few years later, I saw this game with a cool cover and a synopsis on the back that interested me. You know what game that was? FF8.
At this point I knew what an RPG was, and I recognized the characteristics of the genre. And you know what I thought about the game the first time I played it? I thought it was pretty enjoyable. I'll never deny that I enjoyed the game the first time I played it, because it'd be a lie.
However, after I was done with the game, I wanted to check out what the rest of the series had to offer. So I plyed FFVI & FFVII. You know what I found out about those games? That I enjoyed them more than FF8. At this point, I became a fan of the Final Fantasy series and RPGs in general, so I anxiously awaited the release of FFIX. And when that came out, I enjoyed that more than any of the other FFs I played. Then I started branching out into other RPGs. Grandia II, Skies of Arcadia, Lunar, Lunar II, and other Squaresoft RPGs like Parasite Eve, Xenogears, and Vagrant Story.
Eventually, I realized what I liked most in an RPG, and now I look for those things more than anything else. A good story, character development, and nice gameplay. You know what I realized when I got around to replaying FF8? I didn't like it much anymore because the things I had grwon to appreciate in other RPGs I found lacking in FF8. Others disagree with me, and that is their right. Such is my right to argue when people try to tell me that FF8 had a good story, gameplay, characters etc like it was some kind of proven fact whereas it is actually just their opinion.
So FF8 literally is the RPG that started me in the genre, and I will appreciate it for that. But I no longer consider a good game, and I consider too many things to be wrong with it for me to enjoy. So don't come to me and try to tell me that I don't have the soul of an RPG player because I no longer like your favorite RPG.
I have only been on the eyesonff.com forums for a little while, just one quick question, does anybody ever post anything positive?
Rarely when it comes to "This Final Fantasy sux", "This Final Fantasy is the best" or "This Final Fantasy is better than this Final Fantasy" threads. :cry:Quote:
Originally posted by rigell
I have only been on the eyesonff.com forums for a little while, just one quick question, does anybody ever post anything positive?
People who dislike the game are intitled to their opinion. I will allow this to stay open so people can voice their opinion on what parts they didn't like, but I won't tolerate any more calling of others' opinions stupid, proclaiming that nobody cares, and any other off topic banter.
Personally I thought FFVIII was an alright game. Drawing magic got on my nerves and not having any equipment also sucked, but I liked the way the GFs were used and the junctioning system.
:) I love FF8, it is the best RPG, best game in the world, the characters are great, the story is excellent, the graffix are doody and the FMV's jes blow you away, fantastic, love it, love it, love IT! the magic system is awsom and also the leveling system it's all doody! :D
I dunno why anyone can hate it!
I really liked the story, and the suspense / tension during certain moments :) As a DVD it would've been brilliant.
As for the game itself, I never thought much of it. Drawing got on my nerves, having a trail of people behind you was silly (but a step up from walking into the main character a'la FF7) and GFs were far too important in battles for my liking.
There, see, it's not difficult to at least *attempt* some reasons/justifications for voicing an opinion on a game :)
Hahaha. According to that, about three quarters of the FF playing community lack souls of RPG players.Quote:
Originally posted by Derman
If u dont like FF8 then i think that you dont have the soul of a RPG player.
Squall04: I know. Normally, I'm almost obessively sparing with such formulations, but this time I felt it was warranted. Play Torment and see for yourself.
Derman: Sonny, the RPGs I've enjoyed the most have all been constructed around D&D, the most recognized RPG-standard/ruleset of our time (Planescape Torment and Neverwinter Nights). Why? Because I get to role-play. Because in those games, story and characters are everything and then some. You really shouldn't say I lack the soul for RPGs.
Well, let me see why the game isn't any good.
FF VII was the start to a new and exciting series. It awoke the Role-playing era. New games started to pop up, classics. Everyone loved FFVII. Even I can't say it is bad, because I love it. When someone I knew started to play FF 8, they said it was fantastic. I thought I might as well try it. I began to play and after 1 hour I was hooked. I couldn't stop playing it. But then Square got a bit stupid. I began to lose intrest. Eventually, it got boring. I stopped playing it. I decided to play other games. Then when FF9 came out, I was unsure that Square could hook me again. We got the game and I began to play. Yeah, I know it got 9/10, but I actually enjoyed it. It is easy, the characters aren't exactley exciting. But I liked it. I probably hate FF8 now because well, I didn't connect as well to the characters as well as I did to FF7. I know that they introduced a love sense into it. They were being daring with the changes, and if Square didn't rush disc 2 and 3, I would probably still play it. My friend got to the end of the game but when at Ultimecia's castle, they got stuck. So I decided to give another chance. Fantastic! I really enjoyed that bit. But I wouldn't waste my time trying to reach that part of the game. I would probably fall asleep. I wouldn't say FF9 was perfect. The best ones are 1,7,10 and Tactics Advance. I plan on getting Crystal Chronicles. Lets just hope the main characters aren't as confusing, difficult and down right stupid (Irvine, Zell, Quistis, Squall). Square did make a mistake in boring me. Leave all the Long videos and cutscenes to the games that work well with them (Metal Gear Solid 2). I would happily play that game despite the cutscenes. A role- Playing is when you explore a Fantasy World, you get involved with the characters. You smile, you laugh, you cry. With FF8, I yawned.
Hmmm... my issue with VII (whcih, let's get it straight, I DID enjoy immensly) is that the character are a bit too 'larger than life' while the characters in VIII feel a bit... closer to me. Also, they come more alive to me. I think part of the reason is that while FFVII has more background on each one, they have relatively little dialogue compared to VIII I feel. And that dialogue, even if it IS rather normal stuff on occasions, helps making them feel real to me, while Cloud and company stay rather distant, so that even a better background has elss effect on me. (one of the main reasons VI fails to affect me. Many of the characters only have a few lines outside their background. It starts out all right, but it stops pretty soon)
To each his own.
I didn't enjoy it that much. I don't mind change, but it was too much. No equipment just can ruin an RPG. I also didn't like the magic system. The best part was the graphics, but there just wasn't a whole lot there. Not enough characters either.
Opinions are deadly. Bush or Kerry? (seriously, thats all I hear about now adays {in college}) :grr:
I didn't finished VII, I just got tired of it. Not like I suck, and it was too hard, but I simply got tired of messin with it (got to final battle but never enhanced anything). Is FFVIII rubbish? I enjoyed it, I played through it twice and had a better connection with it. Maybe theres an element outside of videogames that determines whether were gonna like them or night. I related better with VIII with the whole military orientation. VII with the gang and ghetto, Poor people against the powers of the country, and WMD, its like the Bush and Kerry debates in here.
Simply its your frame of mind thats going to determine your taste in videogames, not the games themselves.
Planescape: Torment is indeed an excellent game. Your post makes me want to reinstall it and actually attempt to complete the thing this time around.Quote:
Originally posted by Silent Warrior
Now, I can live with people appreciating FF8, but a simple fact of life is that Planescape Torment is ten times the RPG FF8 is.
However, i'm not sure there's any easy way to compare the two. Planescape is a much more traditional, deep D&D-styled adventure, on a different level than Final Fantasy's more progressive and simplified storytelling. The former centers around direct and personal character development, from class to alignment to the actual flow of the storyline. The latter, though, sets most of those in stone from the beginning, instead carrying the player through a set storyline while watching the characters grow and change. Planescape is about direct and influential player activity, whereas Final Fantasy is more akin to an extremely interactive movie.
For any hardcore roleplayer, it's likely that Planescape is far more interesting than the linear, story-centric Final Fantasy series. But for some folks, good story trumps that huge personal involvement any day of the week. They're both achieving different goals, and for different audiences.
Which, by the way, is FF8's trouble. Despite the game's inherent reliance on storytelling and characters, the storytelling and characters aren't as strong as they could be. Many of them are unfortunately expendable; the game would not have changed had some other character taken his or her place. This isn't the case with, say, FF7, for which a good handful of the charaters are active, dynamic and essential to the main plot. Other folks have covered this well enough, so i'll leave it at that.
Despite that, i enjoyed FF8. i really did. It just wasn't my favorite.
MHO, don't ya think that judging a game by its characters is kinda lame? i would rather concentrate on the plot and gameplay that the characters are involved in
It's almost a fact that Final Fantasy isn't known for its gameplay (really, it's the same thing over and over for ten games, with some new little twist in each one). And characters and plot usually go hand in hand (you usually can't have plot without characters, and vice-versa).
Blanco Meow: Um... FF8 is far too linear to consider it an interactive movie. Wing Commander 3/4 and the Tex Murphy-games are interactive movies all the way through. Study.
OK, perhaps bringing out Torment was cheating, but what the hell, it's a good piece of software. :D
rigell: ... Yeah, what DocFrance said. YOU TOO go study Wing Commander! :)
No, its linearity is what makes the comparison valid. When you go to a movie you don't expect to write the story, do you? No. The movie plays out a defined story and you watch. With Final Fantasy, the game plays out a defined story and you interact within it. Nothing you do changes the main plot, and for the most part doesn't change anything, save your ability to progress through the game. The comparison lies in the specific, predefined progression of characters and storyline, which makes the games much like movies with constant gameplay elements.Quote:
Originally posted by Silent Warrior
Blanco Meow: Um... FF8 is far too linear to consider it an interactive movie.
The games you mention are certainly more cinematic, but that wasn't my point.
From the menu bar near the top of the screen click 'Profile', then near the top of the next screen click 'Edit Options', then at the bottom of that screen click 'Change Avatar'.
Blanco: Hm... Difference in semantics. Lovely! I'll just go first, then.
My understanding of interactive movies: No, you don't change the main story itself (though Wing Commander's mission-tree is something to fear), but the character's reactions to you can be altered. Sure enough, FF8 does go there a little, but I really have to say it's a pathetic attempt. WC is excellence in that respect. At least until Prophecy. *Shrug* I guess WC and Torment has spoiled me. :)
So, can we settle for 'FF8 = Not-entirely-interactive movie'?
You said it yourself, 'for the most part doesn't change anything, save your ability to progress through the game'.
Anyway, I think I've said all I can say in this matter. You don't need to fear me spewing more gall in THIS topic. :radred:
FF8 was my favorite Final Fnatasy. I enjoyed the plot, the characters, and the many cinematics.
:Spoiler:
My favorite part was that war scene between Balamb Garden and Galbadia, that was perfect.
Many parts of FF* were good to some, but to others, it had many cons. You can choose if FF8 is a good game by what you enjoy in an RPG
Fair point there riggel, well the answer is yes.
I love both FF9 and FF8 because of Cool Summons and bloody cool enemies including the amazing Catoblepas!!!
but I think we can all agree that if one Final fantasy HAS to be the worst ...
Then its FF x-2
P.S. Vivi ROX, and god bless you Rigell your Icon has VIVI on it.
I feel like starting this discussion over at the beginning.
FF8 Is Rubbish!
square was trying to appeal to the Britney Spears crowd with FFX-2, probably to recruit more fans. I was embarrased when I started playing it. but i got used to it
My only problem with the game was the drawing of magics. I must have wasted 6 hours drawing magic from stupid monsters. I also dislike the fact that most of the FMV's were the same or reused. The best part of the game was the desperation moves that you could easily abuse and also the junctions. I got my level 8 sqaull to have 255 str. Another thing that really kinda frustrates me was the flying garden. It was sooo slow and it wasn't manuverable at all. Also I really didn't like the music for the game and found most the songs really annoying. It is still my 2nd favorite FF after Tactics because junctions are the best. Just turn the volume really low and you'll be fine.
Moo Moo the Ner Cow:
Where do I sign up at? I mean, c'mon! Yeah, FF8 wasn't my fav game either, but I don't go ranting and raving about it.:DQuote:
I petition that we should ban all 'FFx game is sux' threads
Alright, I'm going to give an example of why FFVIII i a horrible game. The plot overlooks very important things in favor of seemingly trivial things. Case in point: the battle with Galbadia Garden.
Obviously, there's going to be a lot of people fighting. People fighting means people getting killed. I would have appreciated FFVIII a whole lot more if, after the fighting was over, they held a funeral service for all the dead SeeDs - from both Balamb and Galbadia. This would have been the perfect occasion for Squall and co. to question their lives and their motives for fighting. This would have brought to the table something that this game severely lacks - character development. Instead, the plot focused directly on Rinoa, and the dead SeeDs weren't even mentioned. Like they didn't matter at all.
Of course they didn't matter at all - Squall and Rinoa were the center of the universe.
Thats because death was too common of a thing in FF world. I mean hell, do you see people holding visuals after every battle or death in Iraq right now?
the game take splace in a miserable world like medieval times, or beter yet, that transition between the Roman Empire and British Empire. The major issue is world conquest and the loser... being slaves for eternity...etc. Who cares, at the moment, about funerals.
Also there are tribes and religions in this world that dont cellebrate or honor deaths like the Christian and other popular faiths. THe same could be said with FFVIII world. Even there book of genesis is quite different from ours. The great Hyne, got lazy, created sorceress...
Lota mispellings. Is there a spell check in here?
That very point is my biggest qualm about FFVIII, the one thing that divorced its characters and plot too far from reality. Personally, I adore FFVIII for many reasons I won't bother going into, but the complete denial of the consequences of battle and death was just ridiculous, or at the very least they were sugar-coating the issue to make the game "nice" and less gritty than FFVII, where death is very real to the characters.Quote:
Originally posted by DocFrance
Alright, I'm going to give an example of why FFVIII i a horrible game. The plot overlooks very important things in favor of seemingly trivial things. Case in point: the battle with Galbadia Garden.
Obviously, there's going to be a lot of people fighting. People fighting means people getting killed. I would have appreciated FFVIII a whole lot more if, after the fighting was over, they held a funeral service for all the dead SeeDs - from both Balamb and Galbadia. This would have been the perfect occasion for Squall and co. to question their lives and their motives for fighting. This would have brought to the table something that this game severely lacks - character development. Instead, the plot focused directly on Rinoa, and the dead SeeDs weren't even mentioned. Like they didn't matter at all.
Of course they didn't matter at all - Squall and Rinoa were the center of the universe.
OK, first - are you implying that nobody cares about the soldiers who die in Iraq right now? What about their families and their friends? I can guarantee you that each and every dead soldier in Iraq is given a proper funeral. You'd think, in the case of FFVIII, that they would have some form of service for their fallen comrades-in-arms.Quote:
Originally posted by celtcknight
Thats because death was too common of a thing in FF world. I mean hell, do you see people holding visuals after every battle or death in Iraq right now?
the game take splace in a miserable world like medieval times, or beter yet, that transition between the Roman Empire and British Empire. The major issue is world conquest and the loser... being slaves for eternity...etc. Who cares, at the moment, about funerals.
Also there are tribes and religions in this world that dont cellebrate or honor deaths like the Christian and other popular faiths. THe same could be said with FFVIII world. Even there book of genesis is quite different from ours. The great Hyne, got lazy, created sorceress...
Lota mispellings. Is there a spell check in here?
Second - you say they didn't have time for a funeral, and that other things were more important? Well, the obviously had time to stop and chat with Edea for a bit, and let Squall groan and whine about Rinoa.
Third - that really is a moot point. You base your argument on the fact that they *might* have different beliefs. Meanwhile, I have never heard of a society of humans on the face of the Earth, in all of history, that does not honor their dead in some way or form. Hell, even cannibals do.
Fourth - there's a spell check button right next the the submit reply button.
cant we just say that squall was too self involved with his own problems and rinoa? i,m sure the dead were honoured but the game just didnt show it?
i know this sterms from the fact that ppl hate squalls selfishness over himself and rinoa. the theme of ff8 was love but it can appear such an imature and selfish love sometimes and also presents ff8 as a soap or "chick flick" 2 some ppl.
but lets not be so harsh. squall was 17 and very surly and aloof. he was a kid. the whole game was from the perspective of these kids and the reality of death was not truely with them. its only before ultimecia and time compression this reality stares them in the face.
of course u would like to think that this tale was a coming of age story but the last fmv is the 1 i hate the most and have seen the least. god ff8 has sum sucky features!
why am i defending this crap anyway? kupo!. meh, i,m just a kid.
I like FF8. Seifer = rwar. :mad:
1st, No im not implying that "i dont care," my whole family is in the military. And yes, they are given a proper funeral and burial in this christian based society. But it is not emphasized like you prefer in the game. They may have had funerals and burials during the whole game. It wasnt part of the storyline, like FFX was. The story is about remnants of an old war firing up. Obviously, honoring the dead was an avoided issue in the game, just like you dont hear about funeral services for every soldier and sailor that have died, only, if anything, that they had died.Quote:
Originally posted by DocFrance
OK, first - are you implying that nobody cares about the soldiers who die in Iraq right now? What about their families and their friends? I can guarantee you that each and every dead soldier in Iraq is given a proper funeral. You'd think, in the case of FFVIII, that they would have some form of service for their fallen comrades-in-arms.
Second - you say they didn't have time for a funeral, and that other things were more important? Well, the obviously had time to stop and chat with Edea for a bit, and let Squall groan and whine about Rinoa.
Third - that really is a moot point. You base your argument on the fact that they *might* have different beliefs. Meanwhile, I have never heard of a society of humans on the face of the Earth, in all of history, that does not honor their dead in some way or form. Hell, even cannibals do.
Fourth - there's a spell check button right next the the submit reply button.
Third, research cultures and traditions, especially dead ones. Do not base your counter argument on popular religions or ones that popular society deem "more important." There are less recognized dead cultures in the world. some eat their dead. For example, some native American indian tribes believe it to be improper to speak of the dead. The qwuestion is how did they die? if in war, the respect is by not speaking of them, and therefore no funeral service.
Fourth, Thanx, didnt notice it before.
1st - It was after a large battle. I would certainly hope that they'd have some service for their fallen. You say it was an avoided issue, and I say that avoiding it made it a bad game in my eyes.
3rd - So? They're still honoring the dead. Still, it's a moot point. Why? There are plenty of graves in this world - in particular, (SPOILER)the graves at Trabia Garden and Raine's grave. Graves usually imply that there's some sort of funeral service. Saying that there have been cultures in the past that do things differently doesn't mean that this one is the same. And yes, I am going to base my assumption of "popular" cultures, because a lot of other things in FFVIII are based on popular cultures. If the people in FFVIII cannibalized their dead, you'd think they'd mention that somewhere, wouldn't you?
Just reminding everyone.Quote:
Originally posted by Advent Child
I've seen enough of these stupid "I don't like this game" threads.
NOBODY CARES.
Yea i would say they would mention if they ate their dead...etc. Their are many remnants of, i read in other thread, Taoism influence. Whether true or not is just another debate. I dont know anything about Taoism and Hinduism enough to identify it in the game, but cetainly other people have.
When squall and party walk through the dead white seeds before entering ultys, they comment on the seeds fighting across generations and...walk right around them to the final stage. Would a funeral service been optimal at this point? They had a job to do, to avoid more deaths, and "slavery for eternity."
They are caught up in the war moment. Funerals didnt happen in vietnam in the battle field in the 70s. Yes they were brought home and acknowledged, burried...etc. but not at vietnam, (where the story is taking place). If anyone began to mourn, theyd be killed themselves. The FF world was a battle field.
These seeds are trained to kill. Mourning is left for civilians during the battle. When it is all over, then yes, this is where they could have had some sort of funeral to acknowledge the dead. It would have taken place after the celebration though...after the game ends. Basically it did with SPOILER Raines Grave, but it had nothing do do with battle, it was part of the plot (Raine being squalls mother)
But simply, it isnt part of the story. And it can be hated for that. The creators are trying to capture real combat mentality, when all that matters is you and your squad staying alive to finish the task, nothing else. Its a conflict between civilians at home and soldiers in combat. They dont see things eye to eye (like shooting children-soldiers can be seen as wrong to some and "thank god he didnt shoot me first" to others)
Second, (forgot) And taking time to talk to Edea, part of the plot of Squall and Rinoa. Rinoa is his first thing close to livlihood, his motivation to continue fighting.
Taking the time to find that post and quote actually shows that you do, Sephex. Nice try though. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Sephex
Just reminding everyone.
Yes it can. The creators decided to neglect a very important aspect of war - death - and I don't like this game because of it. Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong?Quote:
Originally posted by celtcknight
But simply, it isnt part of the story. And it can be hated for that.
Of course there weren't funerals on the battlefield of Viet Nam. Once any soldier dies, you're not going to stop what you're doing and hold a funeral service and bury him while the enemy is shooting at you. But I'm talking about when the fighting was over.
All I'm saying is that by exploring that simple aspect, the creators could have added a whole lot more depth to a very shallow story.
No, you said you didnt like it because they didnt have any funerals in the game, and from there they can develoep their attitudes towards life. The game clearly portreyed death with the dead bodies strung everywhere and gravestones, and many other things we havent mentioned. Just no actual funerals. It wasnt essential to the story. It was a battle for life and freedom...(you know that whole "die in hopes for others to live" jargon)
I can't tell you what to like or dislike. Death is an aspect of war and they portreyed it in a way you dont agree with.
And anyway, they did that at trabia with all the wounded and dead people. They all reflected on life and remembered the vital things... Just not as a formal event.
Or wait a minute, maybe noone even dies in battle in the game. Theyre all just KOed. And when they last person on one side is Koed, the battle is over and the standing side wins and revives the other side. Seriously, just thought of that, party members dont die. And those battling between the gardens were using magic also.
alot of crap could have been added to the story, its a debate, argument as to why they didnt. it leads back to my theory that it was just incase they wanted to make a FFVIII-2, they had something towork with. And if not, they leave it up to us to complete.
Damn it! You discovered my RUSE!!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by Del Murder
Taking the time to find that post and quote actually shows that you do, Sephex. Nice try though. :)
I love FFVIII! Good plot or not. I only wonder why someone would come to post on an FFVIII message board when they don't like the game. :confused:
Because they don't like FFVIII and this is for discussing why you do or don't like it.
Oh I'm sorry...I was confused...I thought this was a FFVIII "fan site"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mimic
No, actually it's not. This is a forum for the discussion of FFVIII, both good and bad.
Yep. Eyes on FF is a Final Fantasy fan-site, but that doesn't mean people have to adore every FF, or like everything about all the games.
I enjoy FFVIII, a heck of a lot actually, but there are things I don't approve of. Just my opinion; but threads like this allow us to share our opinions on matters like that.
Anyway, back on topic please...
i think ff8 is the best game,apart from ff10, in final fantasy 9 whats with the half animal people? the story is crap and well the game play is worse than any other FF.
Just one question, why did they re-realese FF1,2,3,4,5,6 on PS1?
The PS1 is capable of better graphics than that, but then again it is about gameplay.
they didnt release ff3 and they r fantastic games. and its about opinion, most would not agree ff8 is better then ff9. please dont come on with such an arrogant post. sos, not a flame, just a comment.
christ, how arrogant do i sound above? hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite....
I feel the same way!! I got FFX-2 for my b-day. I took a look at it and wondered why someone would make such a girlie game.(but that is another forum) I will give it a try...after I finish FFVIII.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtcknight
I still love FFVIII. contrary to other opinions, I love the draw system. I wish I could junction more abilities at one time though. Yes, it is time consuming...but RPG's in general are lengthy. I never liked "shoot em up, kill em all" types of games. They appeal to the ADD mentality. (just an expression...no offense please)
No...the creators of this game are not literary genius'. If I wanted that, I would read a really good book. I like to play because after a full day of working, childcare, cleaning, cooking and all of those other very "responsible" things, I get to go into my bedroom, close the door and relax for a little while. Everything in my life is so hectic...RPG's are a way to just get away.
I remember playing Crystalis on nintendo. (the first nintendo) (does anyone else remember this?) I was so excited ...but when I finished it, I thought "what just happened?" I expected balloons and streamers...I was very disappointed! I think the first FF came out back then...i dont remember though. (I am a member of the C.R.A.F.T. club) :)
In a way, Ultemecia was the Main Enemy all along. How, you may ask?
Simple; Edea was possesed by Ultemecia. Then when Edea was freed and back to the Matron that she was, which is at the End of Disc Two, Ultemecia is introduced to everyone. Although she was in the bad guy business from the beginning. Also, Stupid Moomba, if you think Ultemecia popped up a little too late, what about Necron. all though he represents life and death, he just popped up at the end, just like that.
I rest my case.
To make you ask questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_angel777
Some people loves ff8 and some people hates it.... and that's it! (i love it.) :mad:
the things I liked about ffVIII was the junction system and that your enemys were always at the same level as your characters. you didn't have to train for hours that way. only a shame that when you would use junctioned magic your status like strength and trout would decrease. final conclusion= FFVIII DOESN'T SUCK BUT IT AIN'T THE BEST FF EVER
Everyone has their own opinion, but I still find FFVIII as one of my favorites.
this by far the best FF of them all
I agree...ff8 is the best.
Heh, the people are starting to go a bit off topic. So..
(Spoilers Ahead) Everything is just my opinion...
There were, from what I think, many good things about Final Fantasy VIII, but it did have some cons.
1. They could have heard more things about Irvine and Selphie; the only thing about their past you knew was that they were in the same orphanage as everyone else.
2. To some people, the junction system was too confusing, or made the game really easy.
3. None of the characters had their own special ability, like summoner, fighter, etc.
But of course, I have amny good things too.
In my opinion, the junction system was a brilliant idea, which made the player have to use both GF's and drawing magic to make themselves stronger. Without junctioning, you would have to level up to 100 before you could max at your stats.
IMO, the characters were very detailed, and they would have their own attitude, which made them more memorable.
"Oh I remember Selphie, she was that annoying girl, right?"
I liked the graphics. From all of the Final Fantasies on the PS1, FFVIII had the best graphics, IMO.
That's what makes FFVIII my favorite Final Fantasy. But from what I think, it is based on what the player likes in a game that makes FFVIII good or bad. Someone that enjoys the dailouge, or someone that enjoys the cool type of battle system. Some people were dissapointed in FFVIII, and some people loved it. I think that I loved it.
well again, my biggest complaint about 8 is the same as many others complaint. Character development! Character development! Character development!
You can say all you want that the characters in 8 seemed like real friends with eachother and what not. Unlike 7's did who were just united through a common goal.
But I will beg to differ with you on both points.
First off. You have to remember that this is a game and not real life. And which is a more important goal for the game developers to achieve. To get the real live people who are actually the ones paying the money and playing the game to like the characters. Or for the the make believe characters within the game to like eachother.
I would say the first one is more important. And which is a better aproach to getting the game players to like the characters. For the players to find out important things in the characters life as to how he got to where he is right now and why he acts the way he does. Or for the characters to do very trivial or unimportant things in terms of the overall story with eachother like they did in 8.
That is why alot of people don't really like the characters in 8. Because they were not able to find out a great deal about them other than Zell likes hot dogs, Rinoa is a brat who has a crush on Squall through out the game, Quistis and Irvine (I really can't even say a whole lot about), and Selphie likes to paaarrrty. Just letting that information out doesn't tell people a great deal about the characters.
Now my second point about how the characters in 8 seemed like they were closer than 7's. Well 7's story really revolves mainly around the four main characters of Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and Aeris. Of those four characters. I would say that each one is closer or better friends with eachother than any of 8's characters are.
Tifa and Cloud grew up together (and the game gives a very detailed backstory to their relationship growing up). Tifa and Barret were obviously rather close friends during the game (as they were both within the same Avalanche gang. And both were kind of playing the roles of parents to Marlene during the game). Aeris was a very fun loving character who was able to come in right away and befriend each of the main characters (and you can actually really see how close of a friend Aeris becomes to each of the other main characters during the game).
So you can say that of the main characters within 7 you can say that the only ones who had a strictly business relationship from the onset were Barret and Cloud (and over the course of the game you can see a sense of friendship growing between them as well).
I will admit that Cid, Red XIII, Yuffie, and Vincent all seem like they were just there because of a common goal. But they were very secondary to the 4 main characters (as you don't even have to get Vincent or Yuffie during the course of the game).
So I would say that the four main characters within 7 were all better friends than any of the characters in 8, and were much better developed, and were much more important to the overall story . And that also lies the problem with the characters in 8. In 8 there are no Cloud's, Tifa's, Barret's, or Aeris's. Every single character in 8 is a Cid, Yuffie, Red XIII or Vincent, who are not extremely necessary to the overall plot.
Yeah, I am glad the FF9 was just like FF7 and FF10 and not like FF8!
FF7, 9 and 10 all had a punce with long hair for the main baddie and a boy with short blond hair as the goodie. Plus the plot was spelt out and I did not really have to think for myself except when Barret used words like $%#@ cos that was great.
I am glad that the old producer sacked the team that made FF8, Crono Cross and Vagrant Story, because those games had finesse, style and subtle character interactions that were left to the player to nut out on their own accord.
In conclusion, I prefer the Disney style Good Vs. Bad as seen in FF7, 9 and 10 and I hope that FF12 follows suit. Oh, too bad as the same people who made FF8 are also making FF12 - oh well looks like I'll have to put my thinking cap on. damn! ;)
i think your find style, finesse and subtle character development were all over ff6-ff10. its just ff8 had bad normal character development. ff8 had a flawed story, there was nothing to work except who squalls father was and remember the orphanage revelation(how terrible).
vagrant story on the other hand had a wonderful story but AWFUL game play. so i,m glad that team went unless they could combine a vagrant story with an ff8 gameplay .
8 was awsom cuz TEH ALL WERE FORM TEH SAME ORPENAGE GR8st pWOT TWIST EVAR!!!!!!1 OMG N HE HAD A GUN BLADE NOT JUST A GUN BUT A BLADEW00t DOOD>
i would normally complain about your post Zezipster but your point was so true and made me laugh, that really was ff8's worst aspect that "revelation". i love that cat too :D
FF8 probobly lacks in most areas. But it is very challenging at times. i enjoy challenges.
It's because Rinoa's different isn't it? It's because she's not American like all the rest of the games with blonde and brown hair, huh? RACIST! :cry: *feels hated*
Anyway I think the FFVIII was a great game and it was the game that introduced me to FF. It was probably the most imaginative game because I like the weapons, monsters, gf's, ect. The storyline was explicently excellent. The land and places were by far great. Also remember, if it weren't for FFVIII, FFIX and down to the last FF to come wouldn't be the way they are now so, so much for FFIX brought it up. :tongue:
I don't get what you guys have against it. -.-"
i totally agree with you angel wing, FF8 introduced me in to ff8 to. After playing it i was in a fantasy world, wishing i was in the game!
(by the way do any of you know when ff11 is commingout in england?)
FF8 was awesome- if you want to hate a Final Fantasy I urge you to aim it at IX. I love VIII, it was the last really immersive Final Fantasy for me.
hey you 2 (languna and angel wing) why dont you pm me and we can have a good old chat about FF8! (or anything else is ya want) :D
hey i know u love ffVIII but dont try and push the hatred on to ffIX. personally ff1,4-10 are all wonderful 4 me. if u want to stand up 4 ffVIII then direct your hatred on the real worst ff...yep in my signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna
I agree, if you are going to compliment on an FF, don't do it by flaming another one, or if you want, you can direct the hatred to FFII.
But I do have FFVIII as my favorite FF ever.