Do You Trust Your Government?

A simple enough question, and a simple enough answer for me: absolutely not. With each day, this Bush Administration is caught in more of its lies, yet refuses to take any sort of responsibility for it. It enrages me to absolutely no end that these politicans believe they can get away with lying flat out to the citizens of America. The only solution is getting them all out of power. I don't think Kerry will be much better, but hopefully, he'll be a little more forward about things.

So, do you trust your government? Why or why not?

Take care all.

No, because there's not enough explained things. Too many possible conspiracies, most notably the Kennedy Assassination. And the lies of the Bush Administration. I have never really trusted my government.

I expect the government to hide some things from the people. It's necessary. I expect them to lie from time to time. The desire to be re-elected makes politicians do pretty much whatever is necessary. It's the nature of politics. The Bush administration is no worse than the Clinton administration, and if I was old enough to remember the administrations before that, I'd likely think they were all liars too. Nothing but liars straight back to George Washington, if you look hard enough.

Do I trust the government to always speak the truth? No. Do I trust anyone on the planet to always speak the truth? Perhaps one or two people in the world. Do I trust the government to keep the country going, keep me safe, help America prosper? Yes. I trust them to do what's in their best interests, and doing what's in the people's and the country's best interests is what's in their best interests, for the most part. Democracy keeps people at least semi-honest. Imagine what'd happen if we didn't re-elect everyone every couple years, and politicians didn't have the fear of not being re-elected to keep them partly honest. You'd have something like Cuba, for example, where people risk death in homemade rafts just to reach our shores. I trust that I won't be dragged out into the streets and murdered for disagreeing with the government, as would happen in a place like Iraq. I trust that I won't wake up one day and find that my family has "disappeared". I trust that I will get a fair trial before being punished for any crime. I trust that foreign armies won't be marching into my town to kill me, because our army is strong. I trust that I have freedom of speech and religion. I trust the government to protect my right to own property, my right to be free from harm from other people. Etc. etc. etc.

I trust my government because I sit here free, safe, and relatively happy in the comfort of my home, and that's far far more than most places in the world could even imagine.

"I expect the government to hide some things from the people. It's necessary. I expect them to lie from time to time."

To be frank, that statement makes me VERY sad. Why do you feel this way?

Take care all.

I feel this way because it's the truth. So far as hiding things, things should be hidden because of national security. I don't expect to know who and where all the CIA operatives in the world are, for example. I don't expect to know our battle plans when we're waging a war. Because telling me will also tell the enemy. And I don't need to know.

So far as lying, I don't think lying is necessary, though looking at my post again, my wording may have implied it. Lying is bad. But to say it doesn't happen would be naive. And if you lie big enough, you'll pay for it. I trust in democracy to keep people semi-honest, like I said.

I agree with hiding certain things, but there are some unexplained events that just don't need to be lied about any longer. It's become full knowledge that Lee Harvey Oswald was not the only person behind the JFK Assassination, through sheer common sense. And I'm quite sure that the US Gov't knows more, or has the ability to find out more, and chooses not to inform us. That's just the way I feel.

I trust my government because it's my duty.

Even if it means fighting for a cause you don't agree with, to ask a hypothetical question?

Take care all.

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Originally posted by The Captain
"I expect the government to hide some things from the people. It's necessary. I expect them to lie from time to time."

To be frank, that statement makes me VERY sad. Why do you feel this way?

Take care all.

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Have you ever worked with large groups of people? If you have, you'd see why. A person, generally, is smart. People are STUPID. Masses of people will cause panic, hysteria, and riots. That's why. It's not necessary to know everything all the time. Let's face it, most of you really can't handle the truth. Group mentality can prevent people from making logical decisions.

Too many people don't appreciate what the government does for us. Houses are built, roads, cities. Anytime I'm sick, I can go to the doctors, and pay nothing at all. Police keep me safe. I have waste disposal. I turn on the tap, and there's fresh water. I suppose this doesn't have that much to do with trusting, but so many people (teenagers especially) seem to have this hate-on for the government that I think is completely undeserved. Everyone focuses on their mistakes instead of also looking at everything that's done for us. I may dislike certain policies or politicians, but overall I trust my government.

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Originally posted by The Captain
Even if it means fighting for a cause you don't agree with, to ask a hypothetical question?

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If that ever happened (which it has yet to), I would voice my opinion on the matter to my superiors, and follow through with my duties. I'd do everything in my power to make a change, but I'd still remember that I have a job to do. I'm not a mindless killing robot, after all.

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Originally posted by Emerald Aeris
Too many people don't appreciate what the government does for us. Houses are built, roads, cities. Anytime I'm sick, I can go to the doctors, and pay nothing at all. Police keep me safe. I have waste disposal. I turn on the tap, and there's fresh water. I suppose this doesn't have that much to do with trusting, but so many people (teenagers especially) seem to have this hate-on for the government that I think is completely undeserved. Everyone focuses on their mistakes instead of also looking at everything that's done for us. I may dislike certain policies or politicians, but overall I trust my government.

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Reminds me of a classsic seen from "Monty Python's Life of Brian:"

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

Fair enough.

"Have you ever worked with large groups of people? If you have, you'd see why. A person, generally, is smart. People are STUPID. Masses of people will cause panic, hysteria, and riots. That's why. It's not necessary to know everything all the time. Let's face it, most of you really can't handle the truth. Group mentality can prevent people from making logical decisions."

I disagree. I think if all the facts are on the table, people will make the right decisions every time. Why can't we handle the truth, and who decides what we can or cannot handle but ourselves, really?

Take care all.

Well, people today are quite stupid. They would overreact to something like what we have been talking about. I change my previous comments. If only there was a way for me to find out all this hidden info...

After 9/11, I know many people who were very much for bombing whoever anyone said was responsible. People don't listen to the facts. If it were up to the masses, all sorts of people would be bombed right now. Masses will shout back "Yeah!!" to almost anything suggested. That's how group mentalities work. Being with other people seems to suck the brains right out of people. They don't listen to reason, they don't think it over, and they don't listen to the facts. I don't know exactly why. They get caught up, I suppose.

Ours not to question why, ours but to do and die.

Hooah

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Originally posted by Talus
Ours not to question why, ours but to do and die.

Hooah

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I always thought it was:

"Ours is not the reason why, but to blow this joint before we die."

Seriously. Atleast that's what Rattrap says. And I have to listen to anything Rattrap tells me.

Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:

from The Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred, Lord Tennyson.

Weren't they all killed though, in that poem?

Take care all.

I actually trust my government quite well. Sure, they don't keep many of their (more sensational) election promises, but they've done reasonably well in some regards. There's a lot that they're not doing right - health care funding, race relations, and so on... but they're sufficiently honest about what they're doing at any given time. The police and armed forces are well-managed; the intelligence agencies seem effective. The right secrets are kept, too - we're not told everything that's happening in the intelligence world, because that'd undermine the entire purpose of covert information-gathering. The government's integrity is well-demonstrated by its reponse to extreme views. 'Extreme' attitudes get the most media attention, since sensationalism boosts ratings (far more important than actual current events); therefore the media makes the most of them. However, even in the face of seemingly overwhelming public backlash on 'big issues', they don't back down - hence, we still have a military presence in the Middle East, we're still allowed to be treated with medicine sourced from biotechnology, and we still have close economic and intelligence ties with our traditional allies such as Australia and the US. The government often does what's apparently right for the country rather than caving in to the demands of a vocal minority, even though that acquiescence might score them a few 'points' here and there.

As for soldiers trusting their government... I fully understand that. It's a special position, since the armed forces are basically the physical 'weight' behind the government's intentions. The government decides it, the military makes it happen. That requires a full trust and respect for the decisions of the government; anything less means an unreliable military whose indecision could cost lives in a crisis situation. An individual soldier mightn't personally like certain decisions of the government, but he or she must still be prepared to do whatever is asked. It's a lot like lawyers and the law - the law isn't always fair and just in everyones' opinion, but a lawyer can't simply ignore it when a client is depending upon it.

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Originally posted by The Captain
"I expect the government to hide some things from the people. It's necessary. I expect them to lie from time to time."

To be frank, that statement makes me VERY sad. Why do you feel this way?

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Agreed how can "The People" be any part in the government if they lie to "The People"

"Lying" isn't always the same as "not telling the truth". The government needs to be silent in some matters, or all hell would break loose. In every country, there are people who demand a complete disclosure of their government's intelligence agencies and troop movements. If the state was completely open and honest about these things, people would die. Spies would be useless, since everyone would know who and where they are; vital information from sensitive sources would be compromised and worthless. The military would be massacred on foreign soil because the enemy knows exactly where they are. The other year, a Green party member of parliament in my country demanded that the government disclose the details of where our SAS troops were deployed in Afghanistan; the government replied that if they were going to do that, they might as well paint bullseyes on the soldiers' backs.

Secrets, be they financial, social, or miltary, are an essential part of the government. Disclosing everything would cause panic at the least, catastophe at the worst. Imagine the headlines - "Government worried about risk of war over fresh-water supplies", "Spies monitoring visiting European financier", "State preparing for biological terrorism". All perhaps true at any given time, but telling everyone everything would be counter-productive. A good government is one that knows how much information the people have a right to know, and how much they need to be told. A balance. Open and fair, but not reckless.

Ufos though, come on

Not saying that exists but if it even did, come on

There seems to be two threads of thought, those who believe that the Government shouldn't tell the people everything for fear of chaos and those who think that everything should be open. In truth, I believe Freedom of Press here in America was supposed to close the gap and keep its citizens more informed, but lately, the press has become almost a gameshow, with "Who can get the headlines first?" and lost much of its desire just to keep us informed.

Also, the FCC being a bunch of stiffs doesn't help either.

Take care all.

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Imagine the headlines - "Government worried about risk of war over fresh-water supplies", "Spies monitoring visiting European financier",

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We get such head-lines all the time, and there's never any panic here.

Anyway, I trust my goverment. We chose them, and we can replace them. They know that. That's all there is to it. If they fail in the eyes of the people, they're gone.

I'm am worried though, about the integrity of too many members of the current goverment. Bribes, organised crime... not very bright.

Indeed. If Sharon is indicted, who would be the new Prime Minister?

Take care all.

governments aren't supposed to be trusted

So, the world shouldn't have governments perhaps? I think we do indeed need them, but they need to be more upfront about issues. Certainly the current administration here in the USA....

Take care all.

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Originally posted by The Captain
Weren't they all killed though, in that poem?

Take care all.

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Yes they were, all six hundred some odd of them. I disagree with the idea that we shouldn't question our government. Yes, I'm aware that the people elected them, but I'm also aware that power and the lust for it tend to corrupt. Of course I don't trust my government 100%. But, as Unne and others have said, they keep me happy most of the time. If I disagree with something they do, I'll say something about it. If they betray their duties, I'll do something about it. Other than that, all I can do is be watchful.

I won't trust our government. Even though there is an upcoming election, but they end up only promises, promises, promises, promises. You know what, those officials will do anything useful for our people months before election. What a crap...

I love my country but I hate the government.

No, no, absolutely not. No. A government is the very last thing you should trust besides a criminal or psychopath. And I'm not even talking about Dubya here; he is more of a symptom of the problem rather than the cause of it. George Washington (I think) described a government as fire; it's necessary for everyday life but only in extremely small and controlled doses, and it tends to rage out of control and roll over everything in its path.

Did anyone ever hear the saying "optimum population is an iceberg?" It means that in order for things to run as smoothly as possible, a very small percentage (the tip of the iceberg that is above water) of the population needs to control everything and the rest of the world (the submerged portion) needs to be controlled but also be ignorant enough of their plight that they don't attempt to overthrow. It's common knowledge to the top 5% that the rest of us need to remain in the submerged portion of the iceberg in order for them to maintain control of government, industry, wealth, etc. Sometimes I wonder if today's economic/societal structure was designed specifically to keep the population in the shape of a 5%/95% iceberg. Imagine how threatening to the powers-that-be a generation of teens who can afford a place to live, an insured car and a decent education would be. Hell, we would be both independent and well-educated.

In short, it's inherent to the nature of authority to corrupt itself in order to maintain itself and spread its cancer further. That simply is the case over and over and over again since the recording of history and that's why I refuse to put blind faith in anyone who has significant power over me.

I do not trust the government at all, and why should I. If they were truely a representative of my interests then why do I not get any input in what they do. I know, I know you vote on the person who best seems to be going to push for your beliefs but it still boils down to a person getting paid and paid well, doing whatever they need to to keep their job (and yes I would do it in a minute) I will start trusting my government when they pay themselves 30 thoudsand a year and actively try to find out what everyone wants.

You're free to write letters, or go down to an office. Have you even tried that? What do you expect them to do, go door to door for 100 million people? Which with government surveys they kinda do. I don't see any reason to hate the government or distrust them to the point that most people seem to. You guys really need to take off your tin foil hats.

I distrust all forms of power in general. It could be political, ecclesiastical, coporate, administrative, etc. Im not saying they're inherently evil, but they are, truthfully, in it for themselves and whatever happens to the rest of us is mostly incidental. The problem really stems from the US public being too stupid to hold their politicians accountable for their actions. The US is big, wealthy but far too stupid compared to other modern, industrialized nations. Politicians know this and use it against us all the time. Just like so many Communists, churches and kings before our great "democractic experiment."

I like how Grandmaster says something about the Iceberg population, saying how, in order for things to run smoothly, 5% need to be on top and all that, but then he calls that 5% a cancer. So, a beneficial cancer? A tumor that grows out of control, yet is full of, say, diamonds?

I don't have a reason not to trust MY government. We've been goin' pretty decent for some 200 years. And, really, the people who run the government are just the same as us. There isn't some secret organization called The Patriots who runs things. They don't undergo some metamorphosis into creatures who only want to screw everyone else over as much as possible without getting caught. They're just a bit more informed than we are, and in a better position to make the decisions that we criticize or praise. Sure, sometimes it backfires, but they are human, after all.

I also like how everyone else calls the US big and stupid because we're, like, uber-powerful, and just happened to elect a country boy. And yes, we did elect him, all'a you people who call him Governor Bush.

We, as in the minority of the USA? But, I digress.

Take care all.

Some politicians can be trusted that they are working in the best interest of the country. The current US administration and ruling powers in the legislature can not.

do i trust my goverment?
i live in israel!
every mistake a goverment can do we did...

Minority by what, less than a hundred thousand? I'm too lazy to get the actual figures. All I know is that he won the electoral college, and so, like it or not, we did elect him. Sucks sometimes, huh?

i think a simple no suffices. does anyone think the whole of america will get broadband? ever?whole of america will get broadband? ever? kinda off the topic but whatever. they never do what they say they will do. and people dont seem to notice the WMD that bush uses (weapons of mass... distraction):o

I enjoy how our American politicians have mastered not only the art of distraction, but also the art of character assassination. Case and point, Richard Clarke.

Take care all.

There's a difference between character assassination and showing someone to have a history of untruthfulness. If I say one thing consistently in the past, and say another thing in the present, is it unreasonable to point to my earlier words to suggest that I'm not a credible source of information?

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Originally posted by Rei
I like how Grandmaster says something about the Iceberg population, saying how, in order for things to run smoothly, 5% need to be on top and all that, but then he calls that 5% a cancer. So, a beneficial cancer? A tumor that grows out of control, yet is full of, say, diamonds?

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I'd say more like a malignant tumor the base of which is lodged deep within my brain. On a very superficial level government, as well as powerful people in general, benefit the rest of us by controlling things so we can function in our day to day lives with ease. On the other side of things, they take the world which is like a big wad of clay and shape it into a system that is specifically designed to maintain their grip on my throat and my position in the dirt.

Read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley if you haven't already. Those in power breed people who are purposely born retarded so that they will be complacent enough to do the grunt work that needs to get done without questioning their own purpose and identity. It's both incredibly sad and necessary at the same time, but I'm straying further off topic with this. It parallels the way the middle class of America is being shoved towards mediocrity and their willingness to accept it.

"There's a difference between character assassination and showing someone to have a history of untruthfulness. If I say one thing consistently in the past, and say another thing in the present, is it unreasonable to point to my earlier words to suggest that I'm not a credible source of information?"

True enough, but if you're an aide to the President for 30 years, you've got to be doing something right.

Also, look where the criticism is coming from: The Bush Administration, and right now, they have been caught in the biggest of lies, so for them to say others are lying, without pointing the blame to themselves as well, frankly disgusts me.

Take care all.

No, I don't trust them. As goyabean, I don't trust forms of power, they are easy sources of corruption.

Thank all the things the goverment has done for me? Such as? Water supply? Public health service? It's not their work, it's the work of the people. I don't agree with the current electoral system, representative democracy nor economical system, so no, I do not trust the goverment. I don't even like to call it "my" goverment. It's the goverment of the country I live in, a country I don't feel part of, mainly because I only have a flag, and thats air.

No, I do not trust the Provincial Liberals of BC, or the Federal ones either for that matter. I don't know if anyone else would be any different, but the Liberals are not getting my vote.

That seems a bit unfair, Shadow Nexus. Isn't the government supposed to represent the people and carry out their will? Well, the good forms of gov't, at least. So, unless some families got together and paved roads and dug sewers and whatnot on their own, the gov't did.

Not that I know much about Spain, though, so I might be completely wrong. I even forgot that y'all have a king.

"Isn't the government supposed to represent the people and carry out their will? Well, the good forms of gov't, at least. So, unless some families got together and paved roads and dug sewers and whatnot on their own, the gov't did. "

Well, that IS the ideal form of government, but is there any country that really has this ideal form? That is the deep underlying question these days.

Take care all.

I would never trust any government. Our current government is better than the previous one, now that we have the Green Party in power. But still, people become politicians because they want money and power. Why should I trust them?

I don't want to be represented by anyone. I've got my own will. I also disagree with Dr. Unne: I don't believe people in government are by default more intelligent than people who aren't in government, so I also don't believe they need to lie to us.

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That seems a bit unfair, Shadow Nexus. Isn't the government supposed to represent the people and carry out their will? Well, the good forms of gov't, at least. So, unless some families got together and paved roads and dug sewers and whatnot on their own, the gov't did.

Not that I know much about Spain, though, so I might be completely wrong. I even forgot that y'all have a king.

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No, they just order the people who work for them to build the roads. So at the end, it's the workers who do the job.

The day a politician worries more about the people than about mantaining his position, I will hold some minimal respect for the goverment, but as far as it's a show of lies and stealing, I think I'll keep doubting power.

About the king, we live in a constitutional monarchy. The king is the major political figure, but he does not act unless something really big and nasty is happening. This means that, since he came back from exile in 1975, he has only acted one time, and god, I'm thankful he acted, or now we would live under a military dictatoship woshipping our flag....euurgh *shivers*. The other figure is the "democratically" elected president.

"I don't believe people in government are by default more intelligent than people who aren't in government, so I also don't believe they need to lie to us."

Definitely agree with that. To quote our "great" president, "I am here to tell you, that even a C+ student can be president". If that theory was correct, how did Bush become president, and not the smartest member of his class instead? Politics, why has it become such an ugly word to me?

Take care all.

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Originally posted by The Captain Definitely agree with that. To quote our "great" president, "I am here to tell you, that even a C+ student can be president". If that theory was correct, how did Bush become president, and not the smartest member of his class instead? Politics, why has it become such an ugly word to me?

Take care all.

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Hahahahahah! He said that? Oh, God :D Well, of course a bad student can become a president, having bad grades does not mean you are stupid, it can mean you put no effort into your work, but...coming from Bush, it sounds like "Hey, I'm stupid and I'm here...".

Well, but we know he's there for nepotism, I doubt anyone would deny that, not even him. Would have he becomed president without Daddy?

You raise two good points. First, I apologize for generalizing about bad grades equaling less intellect, but I do believe that the amount of minced words Bush has created soldifies my suspection that he might not have been our most intelligent of Presidents..

As for the second point... a lot of US Presidents have someone been related to each other, it's another in the long, unspoken ways to the White House. Perhaps John Kerry should marry a Bush daughter?

Take care all.

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Originally posted by The Captain
Perhaps John Kerry should marry a Bush daughter?

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You'd get this:

http://images.somethingawful.com/ins...aigns/Oiez.jpg

I'd vote for him.

But then, if someone's government seemed altruistic and honourable, completely without fault or bias... it'd be pretty hard to trust them, right? I mean, perfection is just unnatural, so anyone with 'perfect' leaders would probably suspect something sinister.
It's a lose-lose situation for politicians, really.

Hmm, perhaps for a cynic. What if it really WAS though? What if a politician actually told the truth and tried to change things? He'd be run out of town. As Nicholson said, "YOU can't handle the truth!" The vast majority of the people cannot seem to handle that our lives might actually be in danger, thus we ignore it. If we were actually told of the threats, we'd blame those in office as well. You're right, it is a lose-lose situation. So, what is the answer? I'd prefer truth, no matter how gritty myself, but I think I'm in the minority there.

Take care all.

I personally would like to know truth. Maybe you and I could go to Washington together and ask the government if they could tell us all of their secrets, and we would promise not to tell.

Then they'd have to kill us those....

But yes, that would be great. I just want to know the truth about things, it's the only way I'll ever feel safe with the government. Otherwise, I'll always question what's happening.

Take care all.

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Originally posted by The Captain
Hmm, perhaps for a cynic. What if it really WAS though? What if a politician actually told the truth and tried to change things? He'd be run out of town. As Nicholson said, "YOU can't handle the truth!" The vast majority of the people cannot seem to handle that our lives might actually be in danger, thus we ignore it. If we were actually told of the threats, we'd blame those in office as well. You're right, it is a lose-lose situation. So, what is the answer? I'd prefer truth, no matter how gritty myself, but I think I'm in the minority there.

Take care all.

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As far as I know, Salvador Allende told the truth and wanted to change things. So there, you got it! And he was wise...philosophically...

...cause...economically he kinda screwed everything to the extreme, leading to the worst inflation problem Chile has ever faced...and...let to some social problems for trying to change things too fast...


...eh...but he was Neruda's friend *points at sig*

What does that quote mean? No habla espanol.

Oh, yeah, the verses don't really matter, I was just refering to my sig because I really love Neruda. He's a poet I admire a lot, the images he transmits through his verses are very powerful, he has this surrealistic style that makes him so wonderful, yet somehow hermetic, reason why many people don't like him. Yet he's my main influence whenever I write poetry, him and Luis Eduadro Aute.

Anyway, before I get carried away balbbing about howe wonderful Neruda is, I'll just translate the poem. As a brief introduction, I'm going to say it's a fragment of the poem Voy a Vivir (I am going to live). This poem was found in the book "Canto General", that lead hi to recive the Nobel Prize in literature back in 1971. If you like it, you can find it musicalized by the excelent greek composer Mikis Theodorakis, with all the choirs and stuff. There's also a poster, I bought it at Chile, it's hang on my door.

Anyway, it's basically a vitalist afirmation of love to life and insubmission to power and alienation:

"I am not going to die,
I come out now in this day
full of volcanoes,
to the crowd, to life."


*is a Neruda fanartic*


¬¬

Very nice indeed. We could all stand to lead simpler lives, I'd warrant.

Take care all.

Okay, you know that I'm portuguese, so our prime-minister is Durão Barroso. But I don't like him, I don't trust him. I'm communist, and I think that Portugal it is not being any good. Eg: Iraq war - G.N.R - our police, doesn't even do anything here, what were they doing in the midle of the desert?

I don't want anything that is revolutionary, I just want peace and love and a new finance minister!

Portugal it's going under and portuguese peolple can't see it, we are at the bottom of the Europe.
We are:

- The poorest;
- Whom smoke more;
- Whom kill more by car accidents;
- Whom have more youth mothers;
- Whom die more people by illnesses.

This is a mess and someone has to do anything to put an end in this! Because I don't want to be unployer when I get out of the university!

Thank you!

I dislike the US Gov't, they do nothing for the poor and only do things for people with money. Well getting money is hard in the US, I'm lucky I got a job out of pity, it's like you gotta squeeze blood from a stone to get a job. All the US Gov't does is provide homeless shelters and stuff but not jobs.

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Originally Posted by Joel

I dislike the US Gov't, they do nothing for the poor and only do things for people with money. Well getting money is hard in the US, I'm lucky I got a job out of pity, it's like you gotta squeeze blood from a stone to get a job. All the US Gov't does is provide homeless shelters and stuff but not jobs.

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You said that they do nothing for the poor, but then you said that all they do is provide homeless shelters...

Everyone knows the homeless aren't poor; they're just too cheap to buy a house.

Sure, there are those in the US with special benefits, bein' rich or whatever, but I think most have a fairly, well, fair, chance of makin' money. After all, that's a big idea of the Constitution, or the Preamble, or some other document, isn't it? Money's everywhere, if you look in the right places and have a decent amount of motivation and determination.

That's essentially capitalism in a nutshell as well, everyone can win or lose big, but we all have a shot.

Take care all.

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Originally Posted by Joel

I dislike the US Gov't, they do nothing for the poor and only do things for people with money. Well getting money is hard in the US, I'm lucky I got a job out of pity, it's like you gotta squeeze blood from a stone to get a job. All the US Gov't does is provide homeless shelters and stuff but not jobs.

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You can offer job opportunites to the homeless but you can't force them to take it. Is it really that hard to get a job? Walk on down to a recruiter, not only will they provide shelter and food but they'll even provide a paycheck. There are jobs out there if you're determined, beggars can't be choosers.

Beggars tend to be alcoholics or adicted to some *sherbert*, it's not like they give jobs that easily to people bound to cause problems.


Then there's people who want to live like that. I can't help but to find such idea admirable some way, it's complicated to explain, has to do with that Greek philosopher, Diogenes (Whatever his name is in English).

Edit by Big D: Please don't swear unless it's really necessary :trout:

You mean, people who prefer a bohemian way of life?

Take care all.

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Edit by Big D: Please don't swear unless it's really necessary

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Oh, no, you're a burgeoise moderator! Repressor! Inquisitor! I call for revolution, down with the mods!


*cough*

Anyway :D

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You mean, people who prefer a bohemian way of life?

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Well, I prefer a bohemian way of life, but that dosen't mean necessarily living on the streets. Bohemian life dosen't mean poverty, it means poetry.

But I kinda admire they choose to live having little, specially in a society where they see you for what you have, not for what you are.

Still, it's not like I want much to live. I'm not dedicating my life to philosophy and poetry for the money it may give me, obviously, I'm doing it because I love it. If I wanted money, I'd become a football player or a multinational CEO. But as the songwriter Luis Eduardo Aute said, and vaguely translating from Spanish:

Some dream of the tact
of the hand of king Midas,
some dream of the stone
of the philosopher power,
some dream with crusades
against infidels in hideouts,
and who dreams with the sands
of the celestial Meca.

But I don't pretend
fortress or fortunes,
only I can dream of a dream:
in a sea of sunflowers,
to find a moonflower,
that would unveil and reveal
every night
the other side of the moon.

Woah, what an awful translation.

But well, thats my idea. My idea about what life should be, even if I don't blame people for calling me idealistic.

PS: I got post 69! Oh, God, I am so proud of myself! :rolleyes2

I agree of course, that a life dedicated to poetry, philosophy and finding the zest of life would be truly an ideal way to live. I think that perhaps, if you can find a job you really enjoy, then later on in your life, when you've found security, you can attempt to live this life. That's definitely a perk of capitalism, if you do succeed, you're free to do what you want. I just hope it's for good and not evil.

Suck the marrow out of life!

Take care all.

My opinion: Brazil sucks. This country is poor, we always have problem with money, the president (Lula-hahahahahahaha!) sucks, he doesn't even has the 2nd grade completed. Brazil sucks. Do me a favor: Don't come here!

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I think that perhaps, if you can find a job you really enjoy, then later on in your life, when you've found security, you can attempt to live this life.

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Uh, the problem is finding a job I will enjoy, because I hate repetitive stuff. Actually, routine depresses me. So I think I will live "this life" as soon as I can, I don't want to wait until I'm so old I can't have an erection.

Well, truth is I don't have any plans for the future, whatever may come. All I know is what I don't want.

There are about 193 national governments in this world. I don't trust any of them.

Have you read Machiavelli’s "the prince" I recommend it for anyone who trusts the government!

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Originally Posted by Besimudo

Have you read Machiavelli’s "the prince" I recommend it for anyone who trusts the government!

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Hhahahahahah! Touche! :D