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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=516&ncid=716
This is terrible, very troubling news to say the least. Even if it's considerably less than the initial 3000 dead, it's still a tragedy. My heartfelt sorrow goes out to all who are involved.
It's so sad that any government would keep back information regarding the deaths of its citizens. Perhaps those of us who live in free societies with freedom of the press really cannot comprehend how much of a luxury that freedom is.
Take care all.
It's truly horrific... I'm hoping for some better news coverage very soon. It does, as you say, show just how powerful and manipulating an absolute state control can be - the nation's capital city is thrown into turmoil with countless fatalities, yet no-one around the world or even in the same country is aware of the full extent. Chances are that we know more than some North Koreans...
the north koreans have finaly admited there was an accident but they claim only 40 dead. Yay communism.
Yes, it has everything to do with communism and nothing to do with having a paranoid, isolationist, power-and-control obsessive dictator. Totally.
show me a commuinist state that doesn't have one of those.Quote:
Yes, it has everything to do with communism and nothing to do with having a paranoid, isolationist, power-and-control obsessive dictator. Totally.
Not To be outdone:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/22/in...ner=ALTAVISTA1
This might actually be WORSE, because Japan is a supposed Democracy.
Take care all.
I don't think it's coincidence that communist countries tend to always have insane dictators too. But who knows.
I don't see freedoms like freedom of the press as a luxury. I see it as a right. I see any government which denies its citizens such freedoms, for the purpose of manipulating them or keeping them weak so as to rule them, as a corrupt government, if not an outright evil one.
I don't see the parallel between the story about Korea and the story about Japan.
Neither government appears to have compassion for its people, is the parallel I was attempting to draw. I believe, that even if America hadn't been involved in Iraq, if we had hostages who came back from there, they'd get a hero's welcome, not shunned beyond belief.
Take care all.
It says that the entire nation was unsympathetic with the hostages, not that the government was. If the government was unsympathetic too, then it reflects the will of the people. That's just the nature of Japanese culture. I think that's a different situation entirely than Korea.
Show me a communist state first. As far as I know, no country has ever called itself "communist". Cuba, Korea, China, Vietnam and Russia are called "socialist". Communism is the moment where the country has no state as we know it, socialist is the transition moment, the dictatorship of the proletariat, that -for now- has not been managed correctly by any of the -as they call themselves- communist leaders. The one that has done it better is Fidel, he has some great accomplishments, but of course, he also has some great errors, mainly the lack of freedom of press that- as Unne said- is not a luxury, but a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by gokufusionss1
So I insist, once again (and again), Korea is NOT a communist country, but a rather awfully managed dictatorship of the proletariat. I hope I explained myself clearly. So every time you refer to "communist country", you are referring to a country that does not exist.
Now, as for the news itself, well, I am not surprised to see such censhorip. The attempt to hide information from the general public is very common in every state, dictatorship or democracy. Of course, manipulation in a dictatorship is much easier to take into practice in a dictatorship because of the abolishment of free press, but the state wishes to mantain in power and for such thing it is necessary to manipulate when things may go wrong. And I can give you plenty of examples of lies in democracies. You can't expect a goverment to tell always the truth.
Yugoslavia during the 1950's, 60's, and 70's, was led a by someone named Josip Tito. He actively denounced Stalin and united the diverse ethnic peoples in Yugoslavia. Its a little tough to call this guy a paranoid psycho.Quote:
Originally Posted by gokufusionss1
Don't forget the Prague Spring, they also did something similar. Of course, then the tanks arrived to run over the flowers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Knight
Indeed. While we may praise those people for risking their lives to help a people in need, it was arguably reckless of them to go into a war-zone like that before the troops have finished their end of the work. They put themselves in unnecessary danger, and got used as leverage against their own government, by taking that risk, so I can kinda understand the nation's perspective, even if I don't share it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Unne
I've never understood Japanese culture myself, nor do I really want to after reading this article. Perhaps the fact that I am partially Japanese makes me even sadder. I think regardless of whether they had any consent or not from their government, it's still beyond me how they could be shunned for attempting to help other people, which is what I'm assuming they were doing. In America, they'd get a medal and be praised for having courage, yet in Japan they're shunned and treated as traitors. Definitely more then the rising and falling of the sun separates these two cultures.
Despite all that, the saddest hostage situation I've ever seen took place here in America, between Jimmy Carter and Reagan. The fact that anyone would use hostages as a means to get elected is terrible.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/lost10.html
Perhaps no country truly is a free society because we are never free of corruption.
Take care all.
Remember, "Oh Mikey!" comes from Japan. What else can you expect?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
Now, seriously, I fail to understand that too, specially for the girl, who was doing charity works. But I guess it's not correct to generalize, even if the goverment and some (many) people seem to dislike them, I guess they still get support from some others.
Plus, it seems contradictory too. If they are angered at them because "they caused trouble"...what trouble do they refer to? OK, the trouble could be "they threatened to burn you alive, ergo you got us worried". So OK, then thats trouble, but ...why were their worried about them if- apparently- they hated them so much?
"In America, they'd get a medal and be praised for having courage, yet in Japan they're shunned and treated as traitors. Definitely more then the rising and falling of the sun separates these two cultures."
You are taking the "worst" of Japan and comparing it with the "best" of America... Think about this analogy then - Japan is a beautiful country of tradition, clean streets and honour. America has ghettos and a terrible homicide rate. Different modes of intellect are required - and you will never understand Japan from a western intellect.
In Japan a man would commit sepiku before failing - In America many lead lives of crime and kill people just to steal a DVD… In Japan you can lave your wallet on the park bench, would you do the same in New York?
"Show me a communist state first."
Talk about massive poverty! what will the millions do in this communist state? the massive agricultural investment required just to keep our species burning is immense. The geometric growth in China could not be supported under communism, but when market reforms come in VOLA, the poverty was reduced. Communism would work in a world of small ethnic unity (just to make it sound quaint) where - Fred grows turnips, Jill grows Onions, and Vladyanovic grows rye... But as soon as a worm plauge kills Freds turnips Freds income is depleted and hence the ugly market economy wakes from its sleep.
A fact of the universe, as much as water boils, is that certain materials are more common than others. Gold is less common than Copper - Uranium is less common than Iron. So, humans equate cost based on "scarcity" to these materials. Market economy provides these goods at their respective scarcity price GPI. As soon as we move away from this model the market collapses... i.e. water does not boil because we (the humans) have trapped it in a heat proof vault. That Vault is called communist economy or central economy. Prices are fixed to artificial (not natural) levels.... Clear? Nothing is free, simple. even water has a cost (becomes scarce) when too many people start to drink it.
"Yugoslavia during the 1950's, 60's, and 70's, was led a by someone named Josip Tito. He actively denounced Stalin and united the diverse ethnic peoples in Yugoslavia. Its a little tough to call this guy a paranoid psycho."
Yes, I am glad that Yogoslavia was saved from commie turnip farms and became one of Eastern Europe’s best examples of modern market economy.