Is this justice?

Okay, here's my rambling:


In America, a person can lose their job and be taken to court for being racist in any way, shape or form. Any disagreement between a white person and a black one is automatically a hate crime and the maximum penalty is delivered. Basically, you say 'nigger', you're going to be paying a few thousand dollars.

However, 'gay-bashing' is perfectly legal. The Constitution prohibits discrimination based on 'race, gender or previous condition of servitude'. However, discrimination based on sexual orientation is perfectly legal. In all reality, a heterosexual who calls me a 'faggot' is in no danger of any punishment.

Am I out of line, or is this unfair?

Discuss.

It is extremely unfair. But so is life.

But that doesn't mean that it's right, does it?

Yes, it is extremely unfair, and something should be done about it. Especially the use of 'gay' as a euphamism for 'bad' (i.e. 'gamecube is gay it has crappy grfx + teh gamz r crap 2'). People throw the word around, without even considering what they are saying.

Being bisexual, I know it is very unfair, but gay rights are being discussed and fought for as we speak. It's just going to take time, like it did for women’s rights and black's rights. I mean, Canada has legalized gay marriage, and now some states are thinking of doing the same, so don't loose hope. Just continue to voice your opinion, because now that more people are coming out of their closets, so to speak, something will have to be done soon. ^_^

I agree with Nyomi. Things like these are certainly going to better direction.

A crime against a gay person is tried as a hate crime*, and calling someone names referring to their sexuality is sexual harassment.

A couple examples of "hate crimes" against homosexuals: 1, 2.

Still, I'm very against the whole "hate crime" classification. All crimes are crimes of hate, and assuming a crime is commited because of bigotry just because the difference exists is just as bigoted as what they are trying to prevent.

I'm with shlup. If its a crime, isnt it done in hate? It doenst matter if your black or white. If a white guy killed a white guy it isnt a hate crime because their both white. thats just stupid. he did it out of hate.

I agree with your second point, about gay rights, but I don't agree at all with the first part, about racism. While a white man killing a black man is classified as a hate crime, a black man killing a white man isn't. That's "unfair", if you would like to call it that. Neither of them should be under that category. We're all people.

Well everyone got it right but I think Bill ment this; he told that discrimination based on sexual orientaion is legal. He told me of a man who was working somewhere in Michigan, he was doing good but when his boss found out he was gay he fired him for it, it was legal also. I personally think it's bullcrap, what people do behind closed doors with whomever they want is nobody elses business.

It's one thing to determine with some sort of syllogism that such-and-such is bad. It's another to impose it on the population. Of course this could all be due to my experiences with racism, associating it with some sort of social norm, and then feeling culture shock when people stopped being racist. I honestly miss racism from time to time...it's odd.

Yeah i think its wrong, you shouldn't be punished for saying anything....isn't this the land of the free? The word nigger doesn't hurt people, Stupid racists hurt people.

Not saying im racist or anything. But what i am saying is that races dont matter for crap. I honestly dont care if your black,mexican,asian ect. But homosexuality on the other hand i AM against. And don't now feel like your obligated to flame me its my christian belief that God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve for a reason and I believe I should and will respect that.

(Maybe i should mak a catchphrase too?)
Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

Fine that's your Christian belief. Just don't force that belief onto other people. Homosexuals can't help how they feel. You can't help who you love. It just happens. And treating them as inferior is wrong. They're human too, and should be treated as such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jebusabsolute

Fine that's your Christian belief. Just don't force that belief onto other people. Homosexuals can't help how they feel. You can't help who you love. It just happens. And treating them as inferior is wrong. They're human too, and should be treated as such.

---

....so where in my post exactly did i say they were inhuman? I just said I dont suport them.

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

I never said you thought they were inhuman. I just said that they're your beliefs. And I guess I lost myself again and sterotyped Christians again. My apologies.

To keep you from further apparently stereotyping Christians - I am one, and you know me pretty well. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King Bahamut

To keep you from further apparently stereoptyping Christians - I am one, and you know me pretty well. :p

---

High five! [Insert High Five Smiley Here]

Anyway whats wrong with stealing the word gay from homosexuals? they stole it from happy people (not saying homosexuals can't be happy)

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TasteyPies

High five! [Insert High Five Smiley Here]

Anyway whats wrong with stealing the word gay from homosexuals? they stole it from happy people (not saying homosexuals can't be happy)

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

---

Very true, and Fag was stolen by the English. A fag is a cigarette. Just kinda funny stuff going round. Hey, nothing wrong with christians, I gots christian friends, and I am a spiritual person myself. ^_^ But anyway, back on topic...

Discrimination = BAD!

[q]Fine that's your Christian belief. Just don't force that belief onto other people.[/q]

Yet you can prevent me from being racist?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Immortal

[q]Fine that's your Christian belief. Just don't force that belief onto other people.[/q]

Yet you can prevent me from being racist?

---

Noone can prevent you from being anything, just make it super hard and unfair

Heck the KKK are legal aint they?
(Not saying in ANY way shape or form anyone should suport them)

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

The Constitution prohibits discrimination based on 'race, gender or previous condition of servitude'. However, discrimination based on sexual orientation is perfectly legal. In all reality, a heterosexual who calls me a 'faggot' is in no danger of any punishment.

---

When a judge or magistrate presiding over a court of any level in the judicial hierachy comes across a common law or statute law (legislation) that is phrased in a somewhat confusing manner, then it is expected of that judge to interpret that law 'purposely' not 'literally.' That is to interpret it as it was supposed to be. For example, there's a motorist law here in Australia saying, "in an accident with another vehicle, one must stop immediately." If a judge was to interpret this literally, then a person who crashes into someone, comes a complete halt and drives away as soon as he stops is not breaking this motorist law at all. If, however, the judge interprets it according to it's purpose, then he/she can assume that the purpose behind the stopping is so the drivers can exchange details etc. In the example you've provided, then a judge would have to count discrimination based on sexual orientation as discrimination as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyomi

Very true, and Fag was stolen by the English. A fag is a cigarette.

---

A faggot was originally a small bundle of wood used in lighting fires. :p

Anywho, I am in total agreement with the first post of this thread. And also with Shlup. All crimes are hate crimes, therefore none should be exempt from this rule of thumb, and 'gay-bashing' is just as bad as 'race-bashing' which is just as bad as 'any-bashing.'

I think our society needs to be more accepting of diversity. And at the same time, the justice system needs to toughen up. Life imprisonment should mean life imprisonment, and discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation, or any other difference shouldn't be tolerated.

Wow! So much positive reinforcement! Thankies, guys!

I admit, perhaps I was too quick and general in my first post. I was more or less trying to find some way to get my point across.

Joel is absolutely right. That's what I'm talking about. Any person in the state of Michigan who is subject to discrimination based on sexual orientation has no legal standing to oppose their aggressor. That firing he mentioned actually happened.

As for TasteyPies... let's see, how shall I say this? You're wrong. According to you, being black is fine and peachy, but being a homosexual is not. Doesn't your belief state that God creates all people? In His image? If God created all men, then there's nothing wrong with being who He created you to be. See why Christianity is not to my liking? They frown upon me for what their supposed God created me to be.

Well, if you have a problem with homosexuality, that's not too bad, I guess. You still think of me in the same light. I'm a bisexual, so you don't have a problem with it! YAY!

Your Friendly Neighborhood Bisexual Atheist,
~Ansem~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

As for TasteyPies... let's see, how shall I say this? You're wrong. According to you, being black is fine and peachy, but being a homosexual is not.

---

Yup exactly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

Doesn't your belief state that God creates all people In His image?

---

Nope, God created Adam Holy, but then he sinned by eating the fruit, whats that have to do with being homosexual?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

If God created all men, then there's nothing wrong with being who He created you to be.

---

God created adam, since he sinned the world was full of sin. God didn't create people gay, they chose it. I hope everyone supports me on the following...People are a product of their environment, what they see as good becomes good and accepted by them. Why was everyone in Ancient Rome bi? because it was accepted as the norm. not because they were all born that way. God gives us the freedom to make our own choices good or bad alike.

Most Males in Rome were Bi, your telling me by chance they were all born Bi?

Tell me why the number of homosexual people is increasing in the U.S.? because people are exepting it as the norm, its a permanent trend.

P.S. I dont mean to force my beliefs on anyone, but you can't expect me to keep silent after you tell me something i have believed in for 15 years is flat out wrong.

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

I'm sure most of you have already seen this list but I'm posting it again anyway because it needed to be posted.

1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.
3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears's 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn't changed at all: women are property, Blacks can't marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.
6. Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country. That's why we only have one religion in America.
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license.
10. Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans.
12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians.

Quote:

---

God didn't create people gay, they chose it.p

---

Did you choose to be straight? No. Well, neither did gay people. Yes, it's not something that's supposed to happen, maybe... but it still does, and they don't choose to be gay. And they're still people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Man

Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.

---

Ano...I'm gay, but my parents aren't.... That one there doesn't make much sense...plus, if every gay person's parents are gay, then why would the #1 fear most gay people have is to tell their parents?

Yeah, the point of that list is that it shows the fallacious logic in all of the statements listed. Straight parents don't raise only straight children (that's patently obvious, actually, since, because gay people couldn't naturally have reproduced before we developed the miracles of modern technology, all the gay people in society would have had to have formed from sexual intercourse between a man and a woman, which gay people are unlikely to have had); we're not a theocracy; "separate but equal" is not constitutional. ;)

[TP has hereby forsaken topics that may conflict his religion because all of his valid points are looked over and all his points which may be argued upon are ripped to shreads by EoFF members. The only thing that TP can do in this situation is say things that more people dissagree on]

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

Often, the case in discussions like one this is that those whose arguments are ripped to shreds come to reconsider their viewpoints. Perhaps the time is now for such a reconsideration?

Just pointing it out.

I'm somewhat religious, actually, although I hardly identify myself with the vast majority of people who call themselves "Christians," and I have no difficulty reconciling agreement with such concepts as gay marriage with the fact that I myself would have no desire to participate in them personally.

"Perhaps the time is now for such a reconsideration?" -the man

Why when the points that are given to argue me are not valid points themselves but rather popular opinions?

"Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall." -The Man

OK from hereon out nomore from tastey

Thats all -Tastey :eyebrow:

You didn't pick up on the fact that that list was entirely a satire, did you?

Or are you indicating that you believe gay people choose to be gay, when the vast majority of scientific research and gay people themselves indicate the reverse is likely? Ever had a crush on someone you didn't want to have a crush on? It's a well known feeling - you don't want to continue devoting so much of your attention to you, but, for a given time anyway, you're nonetheless irresistibly drawn to them even though you know it's bad for you. Would you condemn them for their choice? Because it's exactly the same principle at work here.

How can you have a crush on someone you don't like? just doesn't make sense to me. This thread seems more like a EoEo than a GC thread imo.

It's easy: You develop a crush on someone; subsequently realise that they're a complete arsehole, or already have a boyfriend, or some such; and retain the crush through this experience. That's just one instance; I've had other instances occur to me, as well, but it's hardly pleasant to think of, so you'll understand why I don't particularly care to dredge up the memories for this thread.

I misunderstood you. I thaught you meant that it would be liek having a crush on a person you disliked sort of thing nto a they already were taken.

I've had that too, actually, but in my case I had the crush before I started disliking them. It's an interesting, if wrenching, experience - You see their obvious flaws and know that they'd be bad for you, but can't help wanting them regardless. Thankfully, it usually takes less time to get over such a crush.

I've never actually developed a crush on someone I already despised, but it's said there's a thin line between love and hate, so I can see it happening if that's actually the case (and in my experience, it can be).

Quote:

---

Yes, it is extremely unfair, and something should be done about it. Especially the use of 'gay' as a euphamism for 'bad' (i.e. 'gamecube is gay it has crappy grfx + teh gamz r crap 2'). People throw the word around, without even considering what they are saying.

---

I think its being political correct to say for a instance a person says "oh thats gay" people are like ''oh watch it now there! you might be offending some homos!" when really a word can have multiple meanings in today's society. Like when a dude goes "sup dawg!" that doesnt mean the dude is a dog, but a man. :mog:

It would be PC if by "gay" they meant "happy". Gay as in bad is just a socially accepted insult, which is not PC nor right in any sense of the word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TasteyPies

OK from hereon out nomore from tastey

---

Praise be to Yevon! No more hypocrisy here!

Ok, I need to know. Is The Man actually somewhat agreeing with me? :eek:

Back to the topic: I am, once again, surprised by the positive reinforcement I'm getting. I had expected all the Christians to come crashing down upon me with their 'morals'. Thanks to all the sensitive people of EoFF! *huggles*

Quote:

---

I dont mean to force my beliefs on anyone, but you can't expect me to keep silent after you tell me something i have believed in for 15 years is flat out wrong.

---

I didn't say the belief was wrong. I said you're wrong. Big difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

However, 'gay-bashing' is perfectly legal. The Constitution prohibits discrimination based on 'race, gender or previous condition of servitude'. However, discrimination based on sexual orientation is perfectly legal. In all reality, a heterosexual who calls me a 'faggot' is in no danger of any punishment.

---

It's a shame that America has no laws other than those explicitly stated in the constitution.

It's also a shame that those laws are in direct contrast with the first amendment.

Obviously, being that we (we meaning americans, sorry for my ethnocentrism, but it happens) have all these rights, we should be able to hate ANYONE, no matter what their skin color or sexual orientation is.

If i want to hate you because you are black or white or hispantic, etc, I, as an american, should be legally allowed to do so...

correct?

so if I follow those feeling up with my legally protected right to free speach, why should i be punished?

But why is it ok for you to say he's wrong and to bash what he beleives in? I think you're being a little hypocriticle yourself. I have no rpoblem with gay people I have friends who are gay. most times I side with the gays more than the christians but, I don't think it's rith that you talk about how you want everyone to stop hating gays when all you're doing is tellign him everything he thinks and feels is wrong and what he believes in isn't right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jebusabsolute

It would be PC if by "gay" they meant "happy". Gay as in bad is just a socially accepted insult, which is not PC nor right in any sense of the word.

---

This is why I try to differentiate between the words "gay" and "ghey." "Ghey" means something that is bad, stupid, or wrong. "Gay" means homosexual. Or happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

Praise be to Yevon!

---

Dude, that was really ghey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bert

But why is it ok for you to say he's wrong and to bash what he beleives in? I think you're being a little hypocriticle yourself. I don't think it's rith that you talk about how you want everyone to stop hating gays when all you're doing is tellign him everything he thinks and feels is wrong and what he believes in isn't right.

---

It isn't right. No religion is right because none are proven. How does one place their faith in something they aren't certain of? From what I understand, the supposed God has a 'divine plan'. If that's the case, and everything is as it is because He wishes it, then there should be no sins. Yet there are. Interesting. Being born bisexual isn't my crime, it is who I am. No different than if I had been born black. I don't see what TasteyPies doesn't understand about that. And until he sees that I am not in any way guilty here, I will say that he is wrong. That seems reasonable to me.

Reading up on faggot true it was a bundle of sticks, but a bundle of sticks used to burn gay people. Just like they burned witches. "They" as in, you know, That C word.

This fuels my hatred of the 'C' word even more. They made a specific name for a bundle of sticks used for burning homosexuals?! That's just plain morbid! And they claim to be forgiving people! Who're they trying to kid with that bull scrotum!?

I don't appreciate you using the word 'They.' By the word 'They', you mean Christians. I for one, have never burned a homosexual, nor do I plan to. I don't think you are going to hell because you are a bisexual. I think you are going to hell because of other reasons, that you do not believe in Jesus. While there are Christians who are much more fundamental zealots than I, by using the word 'they' and saying what 'they' do, you have judged me just as much as you claim that we have to you. Before you call Christians hypocrites, which we are (we all are), maybe you should realize that YOU, in fact, are also.

I believe that a person who has murdered hundreds, and truly wants to be forgiven from Jesus and God, will be saved. I think that someone who has never done ANYTHING wrong besides the occassional white lie that hasn't asked for forgiveness from Jesus and God will go to hell. Just stating, I'm not sure if this applies to the discussion at all.

Thus, don't hate the 'C' word. Because, by using the same token that you just did, I could state that I hate black people because some black people shot my uncle, and did so because of 'black pride', which actually did happen. But I don't.

'They' are not every Christian. 'They' are the ones who give reason to hate Christians. 'They' are also the ones who feel no remorse or pity for what barbaric Christians did. 'They' are also those bastards at the church who like to tell me that I'm going to Hell because my parents never married. In other words, 'they' are the Christians who have done something that is worthy of being hated. Not resented, hated. Like Tastey claims that all homosexuals are immoral and wrong. Those Christians.

Okay. But you shouldn't associate those people with the 'C' word. Because those people aren't Christians. Don't hate the 'C' word, because people who really are the 'C' word don't do that kind of stuff.

My mistake. I apologize.

In England, a person can take an employer to an industrial tribunal if they're discriminating against them because of their sexuality, be it a straight employer against a gay employee or potential employee or vice versa.

Apart from that, I think the law is pretty limited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ansem

It isn't right. No religion is right because none are proven. How does one place their faith in something they aren't certain of? From what I understand, the supposed God has a 'divine plan'. If that's the case, and everything is as it is because He wishes it, then there should be no sins. Yet there are. Interesting. Being born bisexual isn't my crime, it is who I am. No different than if I had been born black. I don't see what TasteyPies doesn't understand about that. And until he sees that I am not in any way guilty here, I will say that he is wrong. That seems reasonable to me.

---

It also isn't proven there isn't a god. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't be telling him that he is wrong. You're sinking to his level by doing so. Be a better person by sucking it up and not just dealing with the fact that not all people are rased the same. his family may feel that gays are bad where as someone like who lives in a famil where we really don't care who you want to sleep with or what god you have since it is you're life.