Printable View
I've done the quest, I have the levels. Now I just need to pick sub job for my thief.
I'd like to get redmage as a sub, but I've heard you might not get invitations that much to parties on higher levels ( since some people are so very picky). So which would be better: warrior or monk? ( and why?)
I might still take red mage anyway, as I'm not having too big hurry in levelling as I'm just trying to enjoy the game instead of leveling obsessively. Still, I'm wondering.
There are reasons why people are a bit picky, becuase the subjob's power shows at higher lvls, and the one you choose dramatically influences the party.
A THF would be best with either a WAR or NIN sub.
-WAR: The basic sub, you earn Provoke, Beserk, Doube Attack, and a nice HP boost. Its pretty good combination that helps you out resonably, your attks will be stronger in the long run when you use WS.
-NIN: The AGI sub, this gives you more power on Trick Attk, the money spent for NIN however will be enormous so careful when taking this route. The AGI is what gives Trick a boost, and hence will enhance your output power. Utseumi will help with pulling a monster.
-MNK: No real use...Focus and Dodge are nice tho Dodge isnt useful, Boost isnt enough to warrent use. Not that useful.
Red Mage is actually quite good , becuase you have your own arsenal of spells, and a decent boost in HP.
Grover, I strongly disagree with you. Red mage is most likely the worst job to make your sub. The red mage already learns their spells later than the other mages, and so as a sub it learns them even later.
For example, a THF/RDM wouldn't get cure until level 6 or stone until 8. The spells are already learned late enough for red mages as is. Also, the red mage doesn't have the best MP either, and with a sub it limits your mana pool even more.
I think THF/WAR would be best. The added defense, attack and HP will do you good in the long run.
Red mage is even useless as a sub for other magic classes. Why would I sub red mage to black mage when I can sub white mage to it? I get the spells sooner and my MP pool increases a lot more as well. The only use red mage would have as a sub is fast cast, but with a sub, you wouldn't get that until level 30.
Red mages make a good main job, but they're lacking when put as a sub.
I probably don't need to state that a red mage sub would be a waste, but if that's what you really want, you'll ignore me and do it anyways.
Agreed, Melee/Mage or the other way around generally do not work in exp parties and only work in situational things, but never exp.
HP? For THF? Not too important, your not the tank my friend, and if your getting hit for too long at low lvls, something is wrong with your tank. A THF/RDM is as bad as a WAR/WHM. Your MP is based ENTIRELY on your sub, so therefore its low as hell. You skills are low as a RDM compared to WHM or BLM, hence your Elemental magic...no screw it ALL your magic is halved as a RDM, and it wont do jack. Resting isnt an option to regain MP, you need TP and resting loses TP. THF/RDM is not helping the party at all. If your not helping the party, your pretty much a leech. Its like a WHM that only cures and nothing else.
BTW /WAR or /NIN give you a way bigger HP boost than /RDM anyway...so HP+ is moot.
Remember its always Party>You. You work as a TEAM, and you have to sub something that will benefit your team. Wth can /RDM give to the team? Nothing but hinder the party more if you would sub something else. You fill the role of the party to the best of your abiltiy, and that involves what you sub and hence i am very critical about that.
And i agree with Zaphier, the /RDM on mages i dont get em too often..i dont understand why...cept MAYBE BRD for their long songs..but it doesnt matter that much still...your still going to cast the songs throught he entire battle and be busy, Fast Cast wont make you less busy nor make it any better.
EDIT: Forgot about the TP part to add this....if you are asking why TP is so important is becuase you need to Skillchain. Low lvls it may not seem to do alot of dmg, but it doenst matter, even if it snot huge dmg numbers it opens the power of Magic Bursting from a real RDM or BLM, and that in turn will do massive dmg to the enemy. Magic Bursting and Ending Skillchain dmg is where its all at. Especially at higher lvls, with 3000 HP for each mob that are incredibly tough and high defense and evasion(and its HIGH), skillchain/MB(Magic Burst) is what will take off 3/4 of the mosnter's life at LEAST. You can skillchain the battle right there for a easy exp chain #5. Your puny hits wont do alot...maybe at low lvls but before 30...alot of things dont count and things are way easier then with more room for error.
I love my tfh/nin. I don't know if thf/war would've been better, but thf/nin sure is fun as hell. I love dual wield, I love having ninjitsu. :) I really miss provoke sometimes, eventhough I really don't need it.
Yep, THF/NIN all the way! Not me though, I'm more of a mage type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikztsu
well, you have your opinions and I have mine..I still say RDM is a good sub
Support jobs are there to enhance the main job and give it support, hence the name. Subbing a mage job for something without magic whatsoever is a poor choice.
When it comes down to it, individual opinions don't matter. What other people think should influence your decision more than what you think. No matter how happy it makes you, FFXI comes down to one thing: parties. Use whatever combination you want when soloing, but ocne it hits the party times, you're screed. The game is so heavily party based that odd job combinations get snuffed out. If I had a choice between a THF/WAR and a THF/RDM, I'd take the former without a second though, as would most people.
It's not just red mage as a sub, this appliesto everything else. Would you go with a BLM/WAR? Of course not. It hinders your MP and adds skills that are of no use to a mage. Would you sub bard to anything? Most likely not because of the lack of the ability to equip instruments and the ability to only have one song stick.
That's why people go with the common combinations and trends as far as character and job selection go. They use them because they work, and are by far the most effective of the combinations.
That being said, I think a THF/NIN is a good combination. It's probably even better than the NIN/THF because most ninjas are expected to sub warrior to be a utsusemi: ichi spamming tank.
I always get a good party on my server... and I used to be a WAR/RDM
RDM is a good back-up especially if you're a crab fighter, but I assume most of you aren't
Try doing that above lvl 30 where people care. Under lvl 30, most ppl are new, and therefore they dont care so much, and trust me people do lvl on crabs alot, if you actually look at the common lvl spree its like:
Valkurm(has crabs)>Qufim(has crabs)>no crab til lvl 50>Then the crabs again(with 3K HP and bubble shower goes into the 100s in dmg).
Plus thats a real weak argument, what can /RDM do that the other classes cannot help you more?(aka MNK THF and NIN). You can say En-Spell dmg but trust me although it may do some pitiful dmg now, unless you lvl your RDM up even with max Enhancing(i doubt it), your not doing any dmg. Mobs will resist your enspell making it do 2 and most of the time 0 dmg. While doing other jobs will enhance your damage and your Weapon Skills while you can Skillchain for massive damage and therefore more MB and that will do way more dmg than your pitiful En-spell.
Its not just opinion, just saying WAR/RDM works and people dont lvl on crabs already shows me your either in Valkurm area, Qufim area, or the Kazham Jungle stages where things arent really that strong and your subjob does not show most of its true potentials. After lvl 30, your subjob starts to make a bigger and bigger impact and therefore you must confirm, or as a WAR or any other melee(yes even if you sub RDM on wanted PLDs) will sit in there looking for parties 6+ hours straight because of your subjob and theres tons of melee to choose from.
WAR/RDM? No other WARs? O well just find another melee like SAM or NIN to help. AFter lvl 30 pretty sure people prefer a PLD tank where they start to shine and outdo WARs in just about every hate-holding part.
Tell me just how /RDM helps you that the other subs make em not worth subbing? How does your dmg compare to other WARs? Do you even use an Axe or GAxe that WARs are best at using and should use when your lvling WAR? O_o Do you give your best to the party?'
Whether you listen to me or not its up to you, but sooner or later, oddball combinations are just left in the dust, while the tried and workable ones that help the party will be invited way more. The only time you see something like WAR/BLM is either Questing or farming becuase they want to use Warp. They will always put SJ: xxxx job in their search comments to show other ppl they have other subjobs when farming. Its just like that, there are right and wrong combinations for exp parties.
whatever...
Ya I agree that Red Mage sucks as a sub. Beyond fast cast there's no point.
MP? Sub as Black Mage or White Mage they give you more then a Red Mage plus you get the auto refreshes as Black Mage or a auto regen as a White Mage.
HP? Warrior and Monk get a hell of a lot more HP then any Red Mage, plus they get combat skills and strength while your at it.
I think in the end it's sort of clear that a class meant to be good at everything, sucks as a sub. Subs are meant to add to your current class skills and stats, and also be specilized. I mean a Warrior who subs Black Mage for the MP is just a idiot. If you want HP sub something that gives the best HP. You want MP sub something that gives the best MP. Need STR sub something that gives the best STR. But don't sub something that will make you averagely weak.
Whatever indeed....and you havent really put up an argument that /RDM works out in a significant way...so you dont have any argument? O_o I dont even know how you got the conclusion it works well on crabs...
Well-Rounded: Doesnt bode in parties
Specialization to its best: Works the best.
I think comparing the spells list of a RDM subbed to that of a BLM or WHM subbed proves it all.
With RDM sub you don't get cure till level 6. You don't get your first black magic attack spell till 8. Protect at 14. Cure 2 at level 28 (by the time your that high the REAL RDM's will be cure III'ing everyone not to mention it'll drain away your 3 cure spells by that point if your going melee/RDM) And not to mention the almighty RDM spell refresh you can't even use till 82 (heck that level isn't even in the game yet.)
I think the spell list alone proves they aren't too well off. If you really want magic, sub something that'll give you more MP, better/more spells at lower levels, and some passive/active skills that will actually help with magic.
Magic + Agressive melee? DRK/WAR or THF fills all your joys.
Magic + Tanking? PLD/WAR fills it.
The classes where magic and melee flow well are with these two. ^^b