The FFII appreciation thread

A lot of people like to gripe about FFII these days. It's funny, back when the translation community first got its hands on the game, people were in love with it. Have times changed tastes? All I know is I'm getting bored of people calling it the worst FF game ever made. Part of me thinks they're just saying that to be cool. The thing that really gets me though is that it seems that people really don't understand just how long and hard the FF fan community fought just to get the game over here. Let's say a few words in the game's defense, shall we?

It was the first FF game to feature playable characters with any kind of personality, and even though they weren't nearly as deep as those in later games, they were definitely distinctive. The first main character death in the series is still a prime competitor for the most heart-wrenching. Also, FFIV's system of adding or subtracting characters from the active party as the storyline dictated, instead of sticking you with the same ones throughout the entire game or letting you pick freely among them all, was taken from FFII.

It introduced to the series boss music, taunting subvillains, Dragon Knights, Leviathan, Cid, and for goodness's sake, chocobos. It founded the inspiration for môguri much like how Garland founded the inspiration for the Dark Knight concept. And you can't tell me Lionheart isn't a total proto-Cain.

In any set of games one of them has to be the worst. It doesn't mean it was a bad game. FFII had a lot of key elements in it that Kishi has pointed out, it helped set the tone for what would become the greatest game series ever.

As for the game itself, it wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. I just can't get beyond the brutal level up system, if the game used actual experience then I think it would be a lot better. The storyline was pretty involved, and that was a pleasant surprise.

I only played the game for about an hour. I just got Minh, I think. And I wasn't compelled to go on any further. It wasn't because of the story, I felt that the story could be really good; I just didn't like the leveling system at all, and couldn't get into it. I started playing ff3 directly afterwards, and felt that it was sort of the opposite of ff2: it had a good leveling system, but the story was somewhat lacking.

I agree that it is a good game, it just has so many faults. Just as others have mentioned, the level-up system is terrible. I also don't like how the world map is set up so that I can take five steps out of easy-land and get pummeled to a bloody pulp by monsters way out of my current power/skill level.

I'll give it props though. There are few RPGs like it out there and for that it makes for a fresh gaming experience.

Hm, I actually like the growth system.........

*looks around suspiciously*

You are a wise person. I too believe that this is a fine video game. THe bosses are really cool, and its difficult as far as FF games go.

This is one of my favorite games. The growth system is very good. It has a lot of bugs though, like the level up quickly trick.

The only thing I really don't like is that the world map is a globe (Good idea) but it took FOREVER to view certain places.

Oh, I know what you mean. It was really cool that they actually managed to do that on the NES, but it couldn't redraw with any efficiency. However, it's much faster on playstation, and you can opt for a flat map if you like. Also, I think there's a way to get the map to scroll faster on the NES version. I could be wrong though.

I can't even get the map up in FF2 :{
And what is this level up quickly secret? :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chimp

I can't even get the map up in FF2 :{
And what is this level up quickly secret? :o

---

The trick is something like selecting an attack on an enemy, hitting confirm, but then hitting cancel. This works in FF2 because your stat raises every X times you make an attack. But it records an attack as being made even if you cancelled it. So you hit 'a' to attack, choose an enemy, hit a, then hit B to get back to the original character, and the attack was recorded as being made.

Another way to level up quickly is to cast change (Or whatever the HP swap spell is called, I forget it) on a weak enemy like a goblin when you have high HP, and your hp will go up at the end of the battle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DJzen

Also, I think there's a way to get the map to scroll faster on the NES version.

---

Heh, I just usually use frameship on the emulator...

And besides, everyone knows that the worst FF is 8, anyway.

But seriously, I just borrowed my dad's copy of FF Origins, and I'm having a total blast powering up my guys to high heaven. It's funny because my wife and friends can't handle my geekness: my characters are currently creeping up on 5000 HP and 250 MP, with 90+ Endurance :P

My biggest pet peeve with FF2 is the outrageous slowness with which Spells (save for Heal) power up. I mean, come on, you have to cast Fire or whatever 33-100 times to make it go up 1 level out of 16, and that's for 1 spell out of how many you can learn. Ridiculous.

Now that I think about it, Lionheart is a proto-Golbeza as much as he is a proto-Cain. It's just that Golbeza never actually takes off that armor of his and never actually becomes a playable character.

I have problem getting trough the game because I'm so bored of it. :rolleyes2 Maybe I change my mind some day.

now i feel this is a direct or indirect dig at my attempting to start a anti ffII movement. correct me if i,m wrong but i,m going to treat it as such 4 now and explain why i hate ffII. yes i already gave a review elsewhere but i,ll try to answer the themes brought up in this thread.

"A lot of people like to gripe about FFII these days. It's funny, back when the translation community first got its hands on the game, people were in love with it. Have times changed tastes? All I know is I'm getting bored of people calling it the worst FF game ever made. Part of me thinks they're just saying that to be cool. The thing that really gets me though is that it seems that people really don't understand just how long and hard the FF fan community fought just to get the game over here. Let's say a few words in the game's defense, shall we?"

no i,m not doing it 2 be cool, i would,nt know cool if it bit me on the face. i,m pety, but not pety enough to hate ffII 2 be cool. its my belief. that reminds me when it was *cool* 2 be anti bush in the uk. i was against bush but for MY own convictions. same parellel here.

may be i didnt realise the struggle the ff fan community had but that only makes me respect them, not the game. do u think anyone would respect star wars ep 1 if i,d campaigned for 50 years to get it released in the uk if it had,nt been?...no i did,nt think so.


"It was the first FF game to feature playable characters with any kind of personality, and even though they weren't nearly as deep as those in later games, they were definitely distinctive. The first main character death in the series is still a prime competitor for the most heart-wrenching. Also, FFIV's system of adding or subtracting characters from the active party as the storyline dictated, instead of sticking you with the same ones throughout the entire game or letting you pick freely among them all, was taken from FFII.

It introduced to the series boss music, taunting subvillains, Dragon Knights, Leviathan, Cid, and for goodness's sake, chocobos. It founded the inspiration for môguri much like how Garland founded the inspiration for the Dark Knight concept. And you can't tell me Lionheart isn't a total proto-Cain"

weren,t nearly as deep as those in later games is an under statement. i still consider ffIV the first ff with personalities because this was pathetic. gus says about 2 lines, both reflecting the automoton he is. maria;s only line of development is when a horny sailor tries his luck. firional says the sorta stuff ffIII light warriors say. Leon,s character makes NO SENSE, why become a (SPOILER)dark knight? why want 2 become (SPOILER)emperor? why (SPOILER)leave at end? its never explained. the best horrid thing is that this game makes out the characters have personalities. ffI and ffIII never pretended such lies. if truth be told this is the MAIN reason i despise the game. i say again, ffVIII is hated by many, but those characters were shakespearian tragic heroes in comparison to ffII main characters.

(SPOILER)josefs death was funny, infact is very sad that ALL the main npcs have BETTER development then the main 4 characters.

yes it was the PROTOTYPE 4 many stuff and introduced many stuff. they had some good stuff in a crap game. later they would leave the crap behind and take the good stuff forward.

"In any set of games one of them has to be the worst. It doesn't mean it was a bad game. FFII had a lot of key elements in it that Kishi has pointed out, it helped set the tone for what would become the greatest game series ever.

As for the game itself, it wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. I just can't get beyond the brutal level up system, if the game used actual experience then I think it would be a lot better. The storyline was pretty involved, and that was a pleasant surprise."

yes the lv up systerm was AWFUL. i mean the idea was brillant but done so badly. in complete contrast i think ffX-2 battle system as an idea was a horrid battle systerm, but done so well i like it. i dont want 2 play a game that makes me more suicidal then i already am.

i never ever though disputed the story. it was a very good story and its a shame its let down by weak main characters. i would also agree the music is beautiful. gotta be one of the best ff soundtracks ever. and that last dungeon! :D to be honest i would say the last quarter of the game is good but...

the bottom line is that i did not enjoy this game. i attempted a lv up master replay but quit after 6 hours, it was so painful. i would rather play ffX-2, at least that has enjoyment to be has.

and another gripe i have is other ff's take the heat(ff8,9,10) 4 being the worst. i love them but even if i did not, they would still be light years ahead of ffII...

and no ultima shadow, burn the game, spare yourself the pain... :D


Edit by Kishi: Mark your spoilers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aeris2001x2

i still consider ffIV the first ff with personalities because this was pathetic. gus says about 2 lines, both reflecting the automoton he is. maria;s only line of development is when a horny sailor tries his luck. firional says the sorta stuff ffIII light warriors say. Leon,s character makes NO SENSE, why become a (SPOILER)dark knight? why want 2 become (SPOILER)emperor? why (SPOILER)leave at end? its never explained. the best horrid thing is that this game makes out the characters have personalities. ffI and ffIII never pretended such lies. if truth be told this is the MAIN reason i despise the game. i say again, ffVIII is hated by many, but those characters were shakespearian tragic heroes in comparison to ffII main characters.

---

Good job. You just ignored Minh, Josef, Gordon, Leila, and Richard--most of the main characters.

Quote:

---

(SPOILER)josefs death was funny, infact is very sad that ALL the main npcs have BETTER development then the main 4 characters.

---

There are nine main characters in this game. According to what you're implying, Tella, Gilbert, Yang, Cid, Porom, Palom, and Fusuya are not main characters in FFIV because they all leave the party permanently at some point. I have no idea why this escapes you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

Good job. You just ignored Minh, Josef, Gordon, Leila, and Richard--most of the main characters.There are nine main characters in this game. According to what you're implying, Tella, Gilbert, Yang, Cid, Porom, Palom, and Fusuya are not main characters in FFIV because they all leave the party permanently at some point. I have no idea why this escapes you.

---

they are not main characters at all simply because they dont appear in the instruction manual as opposed to ffIV in which the charcters u describe r noted. thats the only reason if u must know and a mute point. in my eyes they fill up spots while leon is away.

to be honest i fail to see how this stands up for ffII at all. all it does is pick out flaws in my grammer and arrangement of characters. the characters still have crap development. if thats the only thing u can pick out from my last post then my post of ffII hate views must be pretty valid.

seriously dont try to insult me, i do enough to myself so dont u dare anymore snidie comments like " i have no idea why this escapes you" because i just posted my views and u had to take it to another level. dont u try and provoke me into a flame post because i,m in a really depressed mood and if i express my anger here i will prob get banned. so please, dont do it.

and respectfully to the mod, there a several spoiler posts before my own, why target my own? why on the two times i forget to title my posts spoilers! do i get jumped on? why am i so angrey? oh thats right, cause i hate the place i live and the ppl in it and i cant get solace on-line anymore. :mad2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aeris2001x2

to be honest i fail to see how this stands up for ffII at all. all it does is pick out flaws in my grammer and arrangement of characters. the characters still have crap development. if thats the only thing u can pick out from my last post then my post of ffII hate views must be pretty valid.

---

When you criticized the personalities of the characters, you only mentioned three of them. Almost everybody else in the cast has more personality than Frioniel, Maria, and Lionheart, so to base your opinion of the personalities of the main cast on just them is flawed. It's like saying that the graphics in all Final Fantasy games are terrible based on just the graphics in the first three games.

Quote:

---

and respectfully to the mod, there a several spoiler posts before my own, why target my own? why on the two times i forget to title my posts spoilers! do i get jumped on?

---

Those are the rules. And I don't see any other unmarked spoilers in this thread.

u put the spoilers yourself.


"It introduced to the series boss music, taunting subvillains, Dragon Knights, Leviathan, Cid, and for goodness's sake, chocobos. It founded the inspiration for môguri much like how Garland founded the inspiration for the Dark Knight concept. And you can't tell me Lionheart isn't a total proto-Cain."

i would consider these spoilers.

i did mention the other characters, under the heading of npcs by mistake. i said these had better development then the three that remain in your party at all times which is kinda silly.

mindu, gordon, richard, Lelia and josef have better characters then the "main" four but only as sub characters. if they were main characters then they would also suck, just not as much as the big four. for them 2 be considered main characters also would make the game worse imho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aeris2001x2

and no ultima shadow, burn the game, spare yourself the pain... :D
Edit by Kishi: Mark your spoilers.

---

Okay... *burns the cd* hahahaha stupid game *relises that it was my FFVII cd2, not FF2 that I burned* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Jumps out from my window... *Dies* :D

You can't get solace on-line anymore? :eek: :eek: :eek: Why?

Stay on-topic, please.

I just finally started playing this one and I like it so far. The levelling system is a nice change of pace. It's kind of annoying that attacking with a mage can hurt your magic since you obviously can't cast a spell every turn. It's also annoying there is no parry/defend option for when you want a mage to not attack or cast a spell. Otherwise I like it, so far. I'm not that far, though. (Just got mythril).

Well, what I can't stand is the leveling system and the characters. The characters are even whorse than those in FFX2 :eek: .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

Stay on-topic, please.

---

dont be such a square... :mad2:

right on to do with earlier, i cant call u a hyprocrite, that comes under an insult...leading to banning. so why do u present yourself with hyprocritical tendencies, (mark your spoilers, but i,m allowed to put them...stay on topic, but i,ll break the rules by trying to start a fight with aeris...)

i,m beginning to lose respect 4 u which i have always had.

I think a good idea would be for you to let kishi worry about what kishi does, and aeris worry about what aeris does. I don't think kishi is trying to start a fight with you, but even if he is how about you be the bigger person and not add fuel to the fire. Just follow the rules and everything will be fine. Please do not post in this topic again unless you have something constructive to say about Final Fantasy II. If you have a problem with kishi please feel free to pm him, I'm sure he would love to clear up any differences between you two.

:O_O:

I'd like to get back to what I was saying originally, you know, about liking this game. Because of that, I'd like to do something I did a while back. I'd like to list ten things I like about this game (I like top 10 lists, they just amuse me. Okay, so I'm weird, so what?)

10) Equipping Gus with 2 axes and watching him destroy everything in sight.
9) You get to talk to beavers.
8) Levelling up spells is fun and rewards the dilligent. I mean, come on, Holy 10 is just an awesome thing to behold.
7) Basuna, it's just fun to say.
6) You get to somehow shoot arrows forward, watch them strike you from behind, and you manage to benefit from this.
5) One of your items is a dragon. I repeat, one of your items IS A DRAGON!
4) You can equip anything on anyone in any manner no matter how crazy it may seem, and you'll never completely screw yourself over. 2 Swords? You're now an awesome fighter! 2 Shields? Congratulations, no one will ever be able to hit you again! Nothing at all? Congratulations on recieving your black belt!
3) You can give the girls axes and make the guys total wimp white mages. Finally, a combat system that's completely gender neutral!
2) Tee hee, Basuna...
1) During the final battle, one round for my party looked something like: "Ultima 10, Holy 10, Flare 10, 17xHit-14xHit". DAAAAAAAAANG.

Basuna is fun to say.

I thought spells went up to 16?? Or am I merely misinformed? Or is it weapons that go up 16?

Gah! I need to play this game some more. It's the only non-3D FF that I know almost nothing about...

edit: typos. Dern things, popping up all over.

Spells go up to level 16 but there's really not much reason to boost them that high. They're plenty powerful at level 10. In fact, I beat all the super bosses (SPOILER)(Tiamat, Beelzebub and Asteroth) with my spells at that level, making the final confrontation seem like a breeze. It's really your magic stats that you want to boost up (Intelligence makes your black magic more effective, Spirit makes your white magic more effective), that way you can crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women, which is truely the best thing in life.

hmmm...constructive things about ffII...

gorgeous remaked graphics

one of the best ff soundtracks period

a kick ass story

yes...there is a dragon

first outing of the empire scenario

last dungeon is etheral

some cool optional bossess( astiroth may not be as hard as the last boss but it was a sight 2 behold)

however there are lots of bad...oh sorry.

:D

I can't wait for the GBA version i think its gonna be great :)

There is another thread on this topic in the FFI-IV Forum and it can be found here.

EDIT: Your post was pretty good so I'll merge them instead.

yeah the gba version of FFII should be great, i can't wait to play soul of rebirth, and its portable i have always wanted a real FF for the road.

but still, think back to 1987 in Japan, when there were only one Final Fantasy. Square wanted to try to make something different from Dragon Quest, so they did the new leveling system. FFII was basically an experiment gone wrong...but it had really good music (Battle Theme, World map)

Speaking of really good music, the music quality was very good in PSX. If they remake FF2 for GBA, the music quality will be crap again. I think WSC is quite close to GBA, and I've played FF4 on a WSC. While the graphics are slightly better than in SNES, the sound/music is a LOT worse.

Other than having good music, FF2 has many good things. The storyline is very good, dark and tragic. I've said this before, but I'll say it again: it reminds me of Star Wars Episode V: Empire Strikes Back. There are many great events and features in the story. Rebels vs. Empire, destructive warships and other imperial super weapons, towns being destroyed, people dying, a tyrant dark knight (SPOILER)who's related to one of the main characters et cetera. The Castle of Pandemonium is also a great idea.

FF2 also introduces many features typical to the FF series. Cid, Chocobos (and half of their trademark music), Leviathan, Dragon Knights, Ultima, Genji equipment, Beavers (a "prototype" version of Moogles), Behemoths, Lamias and many other things debuted in FF2. Not to mention the ability to save in the world map. :D

MP also showed up for the first time in a FF game in FFII. FFI used a different system involving spell tiers, while FFII had a general MP pool. While the tier system was used again in FFIII, after that all FF games used the MP system found first in FFII.

FFII was the only game with spell levels past 5
(ie: Cure6, Cure7, Cure8, Cure9, Cure10 so on so forth...)

EDIT: It was also the first FF to have a character die for the rest of the game

This is a very good game. Anyone who says otherwise obviously has no commen sence or is a complete moron. The game was way better on the famicon in my opinion. Like with ff1 i just dont think its the same on origins, i mean it just dosent feel right, but i am just an old school fan i guess. Anyone else not like origins as much as the origional?

I think the main reason people dont like it is because it is so different from the oter ff games. Most of the people i know who dont like it are the people who started their ff experence with ff6 or ff7. They didnt like it because it was not what they were expecting from a final fantasy game. I on the other hand love it because I can see and appreciate the differences between 2 and the other games and I enjoy it because it isnt the same.

EDIT: Please do not call a group of people morons just because they do not like a certain game. -Murder

heh, sorry man

lol, BBman :p

yes thanks Murder, i dont like being called a moron or having no common sense.

i,ll just say again i recognise the good stuff of ffII and praise it. but imho the flaws just destroy the game...

They really don't. It's still a lot of fun.

meh too be honest it was only AFTER i completed it i hated it. it did have some fun moments i confess...just with overriding painful moments :cry:

too many death scenes

I just bought Origins today, and I tried FF2 for a few minutes. I find it absolutely hilarious how the party runs across the screen after winning a battle. Those kids sure have some energy that I never saw back when I was a young lad.