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This one drives me crazy, I can spend all night just wondering about the great big univers. Is the universe infinite? what was there before nothing? where did nothing come from ? are we the only lifeform in this majestic universe? AHHH !! I have to stop, or I'll go nuts !!!!
Drives you crazy too ? please share your burden here :tongue:
I don't think the universe would just randomly stop somewhere, so, yeah, it's infinite.
That's extremely improbable. Earth is only part of solar system, which is only one of the millions in our galaxy, which is only 1 of the billions in the universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The word is Universe. E at the end. ;)
Personally, I don't really care to dwell on the inconceivable. I mean... if it's just that: Inconceivable, what's the point of trying to figure it?
I'm more concerned with personal dilemmas...
I know a great way to take your mind off it! Think of what it looked like before the big bang! No, wait. I mean, think about muffins! Yeah! :D
Muffins are pretty dang inconceivable.
The point of trying to figure out the "inconceivable" is to make it less inconceivable, until it eventually become conceivable.
There are so many possible views and theories that all make sense, however the universe will never be known exactly how it started as there is the big bang, and god etc. So many bizarre thoughts but if you think about it, how on earth would half of them be possible? how did matter and particles just gather together and create the universe, something would have been there to do it, such as gravity etc. I blame the way that everyone has been taight and how we have been taught, because we think now that everything has a beginning middle and end etc. so nothing can have just appeared as there must've been something to have started it, and if so what started that (it goes on forever..)
Where the end of the universe is concerned, there is nothing we can do about it, it is overall inevitable. Could be the Big Crunch, Steady State, or forever expanding which again I blame our schools for teaching us that everything has an end, because how can they prove that everything does.
Damn it, it really is a stupid question. :p :D :moomba:
Hmm...I like muffins. Corn muffins are the best :D
Or chocolate blueberry muffins are also unbelievable.
Put it this way.
The universe is big. We're small.
We're too small to contemplate something that big fully.
So why complicate it by moving that something big into something big and infinite.
I always think....God created this universe...before that there was no existance....I wonder what that looks like....hmmm...and what came before no existance....and....if God created the universe....how did God get there in the first place.....Spirits....?....but then again....how did everything get created....God....EVERYTHING! THANKS CHRIS YOU GOT ME ALL THINKING ABOUT IT! GREAT! :tongue:
*Cough* Anything you want to add about the topic? *Cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
I think the real inconceivable question is what the very first thing in existence was and how it came to be.
Univers is a nice font though :p
No beggining and no ending, God isn't limited by the human understanding of time ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilika
This is what the halo signifies. A ring doesn't start or end anywhere. It keeps going forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilika
heeheehee, well for a start got proof of God? If as he seems to say that man-made idols are bad, well he's contradicting himself as he himself is a man-made idol, he makes others do his work for him and thus they just create these commandments, which man wrote, and a bible which man wrote and all these things which man have done, thus man allow this false idol to exist, so he himself in the contradicting is no more perfect and it really is just a waste of time and effort. :moomba:
Well, I really can't comprehend the whole thing.
When I start thinking about it, I go into ecstasy.
I don't really have anything to add, mainly because I find it way too difficult to figure out what I should add? I mean, I guess we'll never know. And when we do, alas, how do we know that our conclusions are correct? all speculations.
P.s; Ahh I spelled universe wrong in my title, please forgive me !!!!!!
Think about this:
Scientists found a 10th planet which, supposebly, came from another universe. This planet is attracting huge chunks of ice to the sun, that may extinguish it. In the Bible, it says there will be a planet that is the destroyer of all life, and it might be that one. That planet may also be able to hold life there. But I wouldn't worry. If it does attract ice cubes to extinguish the sun, it won't be for thousands of years...
*too much Discovey channel* D=
The Universe couldn't have had a beggining as such because no something could have come from nothing. For somthing to be created there must be energy. There has to be an exchange of energy for physical things to have ever been formed. Which suggests there was never nothing, and ther has always been somthing. This seems to lead on to the chain of thought that the universe runs in a cycle. One universe is created from the remains of the last. It builds up and builds up up to a point where it gets too large and explodes. From the remains of the energy from this universe the next is created. But this poses the question how was the first of these universes created. This is a question that will never be answered. No one knows and there is no way we can know. maybe the Universe never was created. It just always was and always will be.
If the Universe is expanding what is it expanding, what is it expanding into? Maybe there isn't just the one Universe maybe we are part of a Multi-verse (some may have seen this film, but I think it's theory is sound). If so does this prove the existence of alternate dimensions? again we cannot know. If there is a Multi-verse is there more than one of these too? if so how long does this go on for?
O.K I'm ansking more questions than I'm answering here. But my point is this. Yes since the beggining of time (in a planetary sense), man has wondered about the Universe and forever, or for however long we are here, man will always wonder. You are not the first to think such mind boggling thoughts and you wont be the last. But unless our time on this Earth is up it seems likely that you will not come up with any sort of answer to these questions. The fact is for a few days you'll think and muse and worry, and then it will go away, and again will be restored the blissful ignorence of humankind.
EDIT:
As for the existence of God, here's a theory for you all that ought to make some sense. God can't exist because he was created in the minds of man. And as such if he was created by man, he can't have possibly created man. If he did exist he would not be in the form of a human being, as many would veiw him, as creating us in the image of himself would be vanity one of the 7 deadly sins. If "he" had a gender, that would again be vanity having his gender replicated into half the population of the world. God is a theory, much like the big bang, in ancient Greek and Roman theology, whenever there was an entity that the people did not understand, a God was created to explain it. The people didn't understand how the sky was held there so Titan was created, Thunnder made no snse so a god of thunder was created, The movements of the sun across the sky, a God for that was created as well. As these things have been explained, the God's have dissapeared from religion. The God we all speak of is just the same as these just the question that he is suposed to explain is the ultimate one, why are we here?... because God put us here. This is why all religions are stupid because if the question were ever to be answered sientifically, all religions would be nul-un-void. So just because we don't know the answer to these questions doesn't automatically prove the existence of God, and in fact if we look back at History, if anything it proves his non-existence. And now my head a splode.
why the bejesus would the bible tell you that anyway, doesn't it just blabber on about the life of Jesus and God and what you can and cannot do? :moomba:
(SPOILER)"Death is the last great adventure"
As I was saying in another thread... People will believe anything. o_O
There is no "10th" Planet, Planet X, whatever. Hell, there's only 8 planets in our Solar System, as Pluto no longer has the appropriate mass to be defined as a planet. It's like... A really big moon. Of the Sun. o_O
Also, from a Biblical standpoint, you really have to realize that the book of Revelations is entirely written in metaphors. You also have to realize that the Sea Scrolls have been translated and re-translated hundreds of times overr, from the originating language, to aramaic, and the aramaic translated into latin, and all sorts of other languages, and all other translations root from there. There's no such thing as a "direct" translation, unless you can read a handful of dead languages, so a lot of the original meaning is lost to time. :\
How can that be though, if there was something creating it, you have to admit, you were always taught and thus you will always believe that there was something that begins it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud_99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud_99
You make it sound as though Humanity is doomed forever to be ignorant to the entire creation of the universe. We were created with the ability to wonder and be curious, and however we developed those qualities we always have had them. Ignorance is not bliss, as we will forever question the creation of the universe, but you seem to think we have no hope in finding answers, although admittingly the chances are slim, there are still incredibly small and tiny probabilities that we will. :moomba:
Please do not double post. ~ Leeza
This is what we call inconceivable. It's a concept which, with the definitions by context that humans are subject to, we cannot define, nor understand, because there's nothing to compare it to other than itself.
As far as I'm concerned, the universe is in an infinite cycle of expansion/compression. It is one of the few theories that is widely criticized, yet accepted by the scientific community, in that "What happened to bring that single atom to such unimaginable energy that it exploded in what was the Big Bang, creating the Universe?" The simple answer is... Well, the universe was there. As our universe "expands" it has limits to which it may expand, in that there's only so much mass it can press out with the remaining energy.
So, what's left when it stops expanding? The tremendous force has to give, in the most simple of rules of "Equal and opposite reaction." Our universe is quite possibly just a reactionary force of something more, but what that is, it's anyones guess.
But what will end up happening, is the Universe will condense in on itself in the same way it expanded, reverting to it's area of a single atom. All the force of that compression, all that mass forced into such an infinitesimally small area will create what can only be described as the most powerful force in the Universe: All kinetic energy focused onto a single point, the Universe itself. Thus, another explosion, another Big Bang, another reformation of a new form of the Universe.
One key thing to notice about the universe is... Everything from the formation of atoms to the formation of solar systems, galaxies, it's all in a revolutionary force, the pieces revolving around a central point. The universe's formation is exactly that of an atom, and just as an atom can be split and smashed and torn apart, so too can it be compressed into itself, no different than a collapsing star.
Edit: Geekygirl, one thing you have to keep in mind is that God, this paternal figure, wonderment, freedom, intelligence, everything that you ever think you know is nothing but creation of man, they're just words and concepts. The actual things themselves are inconceivable. In a sense, humans are nothing but self-indulgent egomaniacs. :)
if the universe expands though, where did it start from? what began it? It just simply couldn't have just appeared there at some point. :moomba:
... Did you even read my although lengthy, extremely informative paragraph there? I kind of just explained that, as far as science is concerned, as of the moment...
How can we ever know how the Universe was created for certain without someone who was actually there at the time telling us. The only "person" who coul;d have conceivibly been there at the time, the only "person" who could know, would be God. And I've already proved his no existence. So although theories may arise that sound more and more likely, based on sientific evidence, we can never know the truth for certain. And as such, yes humanity is doomed to ignorence.Quote:
Originally Posted by g33ky_g1rl
well I could say the same to you, did you read my part on God as a man-made creation? pretty much repeated by you.
Cloud, you have proved nothing, you have only theorised.
Please do not double post. Use the edit/delete button. ~ Leeza
No! Not my relgious portion, the whole part about the theory of expansion/compression! O_<
Edit: And until we have some liscenced Cosmologists here, noone here can do anything but theorize! Asking any more is just insanity. *explodes*
As a point you have described the Universe as though from the Big Bang theory, if as some say it has been there forever, how is there a central point. It is infinite thus there will be no central point everywhere and anywhere could be a central point.
OK what she meant was how did the first of these single atoms come to be? What you explained was the big bang theory which says that this single atom exploded. Yes one will have come from the previous Universe according to both you and me, but what seh asked was how did the first of these atoms come to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulmane
This we can never tell as we were never there at the time.
hahahahahaha, too true. However won't the Cosmologists only be able to theorise too as they won't know for certain either? How could they possibly??
... There has to be a central point according to that theory. Where would it expand/compress from/to? You're going from the assumption that the universe is infinite. Next time, read what people write instead of assume you know what they're talking about half way through reading it.
I wasn't talking about the Big Bang theory, I was explaining an expansion thereof.
And please, use a couple of commas or periods, or, god forbid, a colon where neccessary!
Edit: The point is, noone can know for sure. That's why we can do nothing but theorize. And to say any one theory is less plausable than another is just ignorance.
Edit part two: And... Stop double posting... It's an eyesore. That's why there's the edit button. :\
OK unless any of us are "God" if he exists which I seriously doubt. None of us no matter how long we argue for can never know for certain. g33ky_g1rl I used prove in the loosest terms possible. I cannot prove for absolute deffinate that anything I say is a definate. In fact nothing anyone ever says can ever be proved beyond absolute doubt. Everything disscused here is all theory.
Some theories will always be less plausible than others thats just the way. The Big Bang theory has scientific ground, whereas if I said I created the Universe using a block of chese and a wet flannel, I would have no scientific ground for this theory thusly making it less plausible.
sorry about my like of punctuation but I'm typing as I think sorry.
Everything is theory. As I have said far too many times already nothing can be proved beyond absolute doubt.
As far as the Central point theory is concerned, where did this central point come from originally? How can we prove it's existence? Why is it there? These are the questions we cannot ever have a hope of answering for certain. Over time more and more theories will arise but the truth can never be uncovered for certain unless by fluke, and then how would we know it was the truth? Answer, we wouldn't, so even if we did come across the truth it would just be another theory.
Please do not double post. ~ Leeza
Crikey! I'm sorry...I was just making the point of these things. I do read what people say and although you don't seem to like to agree, I understand it too. I do use punctuation, though you may choose to ignore it. Maybe you need to read what others say too. The theories are all that we have to try and figure out what we do know about the Universe. We know the more popular theories of the Universe and thus, we don't need them to be explained to us. The obvious statement really is that if expanding, the Universe has a central point. My point was that what if it isn't expanding??
It's compressing. And thus it has done for as long as we can imagine. Any origin is something completely inconceivable beyond the context that humanity is given. Hell, origin itself is nothing but another man-made concept. Mayhap there was no origin. Is it really so hard to imagine that, if your infinite universe is easy to imagine? Either way, I'ma shut up, this is running in circles. ^^;
That's actually a good point...origin is a man-made thing. Are man-made concepts really all that bad of a thing though?
But why does the Universe have to Expand or Contract? again another theory, again another guess at what may be happening. We don't know for certain it's doing either it could be doing a dance for all we know.
Theory itself is a man-made concept. Everything we know is a man-made concept. Maybe the Universe has no purpouse maybe it's just here because it is. The fact we exist? An accident. A really fortunate fluke. But who knows who can tell. No one. because no one knows for certain, and no one ever will.
Are man made concepts such a bad thing? No because without them we would be nothing. We would have nothing we would do nothing, so no they're an awesome thing.
Please do not double post. Use the edit/delete button. Thank you. ~ Leeza
kinda muggy to think that we'll never actually know the real answers to why the Universe is here, and how it got here. Or if we ever do finally figure it out, we'll probably be dead >_> :mad:
I know it sucks, but thats the way it is. Due to the fact we can never know things for certain we can never know this either...sorry.
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space.
<_<
R.I.P Douglas Adams.
[q=Jebus]Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space.
<_<
R.I.P Douglas Adams.[/q]*[img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img] Jebus*
...Even if we did know, would it really change thigns all that much?
This is one of my favourite topics of discussion, being a science-minded individual, but I've nothing that I feel like contributing at this point.
I must, however, do my sworn duty as a moderator:
Cloud_99 and g33ky_girl, please stop double-posting - that is, posting twice in a row. If you make a post then realise you want to add more, please use the 'edit/delete' button that's found underneath your posts.:)
That is all.
[q=g33ky_g1rl]
kinda muggy to think that we'll never actually know the real answers to why the Universe is here, and how it got here. Or if we ever do finally figure it out, we'll probably be dead >_> :mad:[/q]Good point... but the fact that we, personally, will never know the answers isn't a good reason to stop looking, in my opinion. Today's scientists are discovering fragments of theory and information which are gradually expanding our overall understanding... in time, these elements of knowledge will continue to grow, eventually leading to clearer answers. If we simply give up because we'll never know in our lifetimes, then we'll be ensuring that future generations are doomed to ignorance also. Better to do what we can, so that our descendants can have something to build upon, I think. After all, the ancient Greeks probably figured they'd never find all the answers, yet they invented the processes of discovery that we call science; they made the first tentative, faltering steps on the road to knowledge.
Understanding the universe is perhaps the ultimate goal in the pursuit of knowledge. Any progress we can make, how ever infinitessimal, has an inherent value.
Personally, I think it's comparable to the song that never ends. Once you think it's done, it starts all over again. :upsidedow
Quote:
Originally Posted by g33ky_g1rl
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to say that as if everyone believed it...it's just what I beleive. Please don't put me down or try to challenge my faith or anything...sorry i forgot to put that in my post. But yeah it's what i believe in so....yeah...sorry again. but yeah....time seems like its a large mystery itself....
personnaly i think that after a certain amount of galaxies the universe does end and there is just white............nothing but white................. :eek:
I think it's really cool how big the universe is. I mean imagine ... there might even be someone who looks EXACTLY like you ON ANOTHER PLANET. How weird...
It's funny how we all think we know the answers to so many things ... when we really don't.
Pretending we know makes us feel more comfortable. Why worry about something you'll never actually know the truth about, when you can boast a theory?
The big bang theory is, at the very least, on the right track. The cosmic background radiation is evidence of that. It is, in fact, possible that the entire universe was created from nothing. Particles spring up from nothing in space all the time; it's just that the vast majority of time, they're annihilated immediately by the anti-particle that forms with them. (virtual particles) Sometimes they're able to get an energy boost from some nearby massive object though (say a black hole), enough to throw the particle and anti-particle away. Since they've just taken away energy from the black hole, energy is conserved - they gain the neccessary energy to continue to exist. (Hawking Radiation)
Particle physics and big bang theory aren't something I'm great at, but the gist of it is that there was a quantum fluctuation of sufficient power that it explosively expanded, producing the universe we see today. That doesn't break the second law of thermodynamics, provided that the universe eventually return to nothing, balancing out the equation and making the total energy gain zero.
Granted - we don't know how that quantum fluctuation happened. Since we don't understand quantum gravity, the closest to the beginning of the universe that we can calculate what it was like is 10ˆ-43 seconds after the big bang.
I'm confident in these quantum physicists who work on this know what they're doing. They solve things things mathmatically, and math has predicted almost every major breakthrough in physics this century well before there was any proof. (Black holes, anti-matter, quantum physics, ect.) Even if they are following an incorrect line of reasoning, and the big bang never happened, working on it is a worthwhile endeavor because studying it will eventually lead them to the truth. For example, once people thought the universe revolved around the earth in perfect circles. Studying it eventually led them to the conclusion that they were wrong and that all the planets revolve around the sun in perfect circles. After studying that for a long time, it led them to the conclusion that they were again wrong and that all the planets revolve around the sun in elliptical orbits, something which has bourne out to be true because we've been able to send probes to almost every major object in the solar system, and many minor ones. Heck, the fact that we're even able to accurately hit these planets with something as small as a probe at distances of millions and billions of miles demonstrates the power of math. There really is nothing that is truly inconceivable. It's just a matter of making the effort to understand it.
As for god, his existance can neither be proved nor disproved. People that believe in god are not idiots. Neither are people that don't.
Give me a cup of tea and a fairy cake and I'll put it into perspective for you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jebus
What... Douglas Adams died? Now we really need to know the size of the universe...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus
I'm actually going to have to agree with Tulmane, even if I had never thought of it like that before - even if we did know, its one of those things that simply doesn't matter.
Douglas Adams died four years ago. :aimkiss:
The universe will end, whichever way you look at ti. If the big bang slows, we will have a big crunch. If it speeds up, everything will drift apart and die eventually. If it carries on at the same speed, or if the "steady state" theory is correct, then it will take a little longer for the same happenance as with the speeding up universe to occur.
We're dooed any way you lok at it. We only need to know how much there is to be doomed.
I'm also optimistic.
And AIM smilies are the own you. :aimsun:
The scientist already said taht the universe it is not infinitive... it wasn't that hard to get that! But I laughed when they said taht it has the form of a baseball...
Oi. Here's some food for thought. or rather, theoretics anyways. =/
Look at it this way. You know what you do know, and that is that you exist in a great big giant universe thing that people consistantley debate over. "How was it started? Does god actually Exist?". Questions like that are silly. If you want to know how it was started, you need to know how it's constructed and formed. If you can answer that, you can figure out for yourself if god actually exists or not. If you feel like listening to my idea on how it's constructed, perhaps you all may have somewhat of an idea.
Right. Let's start from the basics. Stuff is made from matter, and empty space. How is it that that's possible? You speak of the universe as if it's constructed from matter, when empty space is devoid of it. Nope. Matter is the building blocks for atoms, particles, and stuff like that that has mass. Empty space is only defined by how much it takes up ( or rather, doesn't ), but you can say that what the two have in common, is dimension. it takes up length, width, and height. Try not to think of l,w,h as a mere scale by which matter & space are conformed on; but rather a balance.
I'll be abbreviating l,w,h as s1, s2, and s3, ( or s123 if i feel lazy. =/)
Another property of the universe, is that it changes. What is required of these changes?
1. the possibility of what it can change into
2. the time to change
3. energy to perform process
4. matter to have been changed.
I can conclude that s123 has been established, but not time. Time can also be considered as a balance. It is the difference between now, and then, or then and then. Time is another dimension ( abbreviated as t1).
What else is needed, is that possibility of what it can change into ( whatever's being changed), and that can be described to what you all are aware as quantum reality (alternate dimensions for you wookies).
That works sorta like how you would think of alternate dimensions do. You have what you're aware of as reality, and then there's other realities, where the same reality happens differently. This too is also a dimension, because it merely has balance, and a path traveled. I can conclude that this dimension is perpindicular to t1, and so this will be abbreviated as t2.
What's also needed for change, is energy. You all can figure that out easily. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, as such is in balance with itself, and allows change. Energy is also a dimension. denoted as E.
( please keep in mind, that this is for the most part, theory. not fact. )
With all this construct, [ s123, t12, E ] we can mathematically assume that the universe is a whole thing, and thus must all equal out to something, or nothing at all. Well, it's both.
U-(s123 | t12 | E) = [ 0, 1 ]
and as such is binary; and also explains the continual collapse & expansion of the universe. In other words, it's it's own paradox of existance, because it is both nothing, and something.
It's the construct that needs to be figured out, and that's my theory on it. As to whether this is true or not, is up to you all. What is infact a good question to ask, is what created matter and such, or is it also another result of the binary values of some other dimension that i've left out; or is it infact another dimension devoid of balance all except for creation & destruction? All still needed to be researched.