I'm Not a Terrorist, I Swear.

My family was talking about a somewhat-distant relative of mine that, sometime in recent memory, was deported to and detained in Iraq.

Now, this relative in question is simply Mexican. For some reason, he was suspected of being an Iraqi terrorist, mostly (at least from what I gathered) because he looked like he might be one. He lives and works happily here in the Central Valley. Despite his willingness to display every shred of proof of who he actually was (calling his work, Farmers Insurance; calling his wife; all of his legal documents; etc.), the government steadfastly insisted that he was a terrorist and acted accordingly.

So he spent two weeks in Iraq. It wasn't until his wife drove down to the consulate in Los Angeles and explained everything about him that the government relented and brought him back home. As far as I know, everything is back to normal.

It begs the question, though, of why we don't hear much about these types of things. The worst part of it is that there's nothing he can do to combat the wrongdoings. Has anyone else heard of something like this happening?

Which is why I don't want to live - or even visit - the US in the current political atmosphere. They customs officials would probably take one look at my Irish passport and lock me away because I might be a member of the IRA...

Yeah. This is why I've stopped with my "THIS A HI-JACK NOBODY MOVE" routine. :(

I know. And don't even THINK of going into a bank with a water gun shaped like a real gun. What is the world coming to when a man can't take his water gun for a walk?

~~~Hehehehehehe *strokes water gun* - FreaQ

Do you know the kinds of things the 'Department of Justice' got away with in the months after 9/11? Invading people's homes, people who were second and third generation "immigrants" because they were of Arabic descent. This has been going on for the past three years, but it's kept quiet so nobody complains, or heaven forbid, begins to draw similarities between these actions and the actions of those we're fighting against.

Yeah, I hate John Ashcroft and wish he would die. And people said Janet Reno was heartless.

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Originally Posted by Skogs

Which is why I don't want to live - or even visit - the US in the current political atmosphere. They customs officials would probably take one look at my Irish passport and lock me away because I might be a member of the IRA...

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Well, I didn't get detained, and I have long hair and a beard and a rather dark skin (Well, I didn't then because I hadn't gone out too much the past month). And I had EVIL COMMIE BOOKS in my backpack, like poetry and such (But pinko poetry). However, well, my name is Italian, but I have a friend called "Al-Kiswani", I wonder if he would have entered easily.

But the situation is only dangerous if you are arabic. The problem is that it is exagerated. For example, I saw news about that illegal Pakistani inmigrant that got arrested for having tapes of the NYC Museum of Natural History. Woooooah! Terrorist thread, the guy is filming a museum! Just like...anyone could film the museum, only he is arab, so you got a threat there.

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Originally Posted by Skogs

Which is why I don't want to live - or even visit - the US in the current political atmosphere. They customs officials would probably take one look at my Irish passport and lock me away because I might be a member of the IRA...

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nah the americans loved the IRA they had fund raisers and everything for them, government didn't even try to stop it.

Heh, the bit about the IRA was a bit of sarcasm, but I do find the political situation in the US highly distasteful, given that 'Liberal' seems to be a taboo these days.

Oh, you mean how everyone likes to say "If you're a liberal you're a terrorist"?

Oh yes, fun stuff there.

Strider, your relative should be able to sue the living hell out of the U.S. government for that. Usually im one to let things go, but if i were in taht position, i would sue their asses off. GOD this kind of stuff PISSES me off!!!

Didn't that John Titor guy say that the arresting of random people would begin the next Civil War?

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

Strider, your relative should be able to sue the living hell out of the U.S. government for that. Usually im one to let things go, but if i were in taht position, i would sue their asses off. GOD this kind of stuff PISSES me off!!!

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Thanks to the Patriot Act, there are no grounds to sue. What they did was perfectly legal. Isnt that teh sux?

I've never had something like this happen to anyone I know... except my friend's stepfather, a Muslim, who was taken into custody after 9/11 and never seen again.

I am, however, unable to get through an airport without an undue amount of crap (look at a picture of me and you'd see why). Usually I dont complain, it's annoying but whatever. However on the way home from San Fran recently (after the EA games Community Day), I was thoroughly searched THREE TIMES. It got very tiresome.

Only three times? Not as much as Ted Kennedy got. Yeah, airport security is a joke, and mostly everyone probably knows it. I wonder how much of what the government is doing for security is only for appearances. Airport security almost certainly is, would be my guess.

So far as dragging people off the streets for looking too Arab, this is somewhat promising.

It was uncalled for though. I can understand if they gave me a basic search and realized "Hey, we should have given her a bigger one." and then done it. But instead they searched me thoroughly three times. To me that denotes that they have little to no communication with eachother (once was at the security check point, twice at the terminal).

I usually never get crap at the airport. Only once, but the guy was just being rude and trying to make me lash out in anger or something so he could arrest me. I just ignored him. I think it's stupid though, that some people have to get searched three times to get through the damned airport. imo just because someone looks suspicious doesn't mean there are any grounds to search them more thoroughly.

I don't mind getting searched once, because I do indeed look suspicious. One thorough search is completly acceptable, because hey, if it can give everyone else a little peace of mind and maybe make them safer, I'm all for it. Three times, however, is uncalled for.

the machines in the UK dont work, they just bleep at random people and they search you :choc:

I heard going to the US is like, hell. If you're Asian or even remotely Iraqi-looking, you hafta be searched so thoroughly. Everyone was really annoyed by it.

But, it's ridiculous! They can't just arrest people because of their looks! :(

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Three times, however, is uncalled for.

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Who are you to decide that? Is your, or anyone else's inconvenience REALLY too much to ask for, to save lives? I should hope not.

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If you're Asian or even remotely Iraqi-looking, you hafta be searched so thoroughly. Everyone was really annoyed by it.

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EVERYONE gets, or at least should get searched, and their baggage checked. Or else, you'd be looking at a second 911.

I say again - there's no price high enough to save and protect lives, certainly not the price of people's precious few hours and inconvenience caused by the OMG BODY SEARCHES!!!

My uncle is a border patrol guy. Actualy i just got back from visiting him yesterday. [strike]I don't know how this could have happened[/strike] I doubt this is a valid story. There is no way a terrorist deportation would get past a superior and definitly no way it could have happened with valid documents. Unless you friend was a 4140 (Thats border talk for someone thats a little off balance 41/40 :D ) And was wasted/had a mental condition/didn't know what he was doing. And then he would only get shipped to mexico. You don't get sent to Iraq for looking middle eastern. Your friend messed up. And hey, maybe it was my Uncle that sent him xD

They don't let any stoned loser guard the boarder. These guys go through alot of training and most of them have had years and years of practice. They wouldn't have sent this guy to Iraq without double checking. I know it was his fault not theirs.

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Originally Posted by Interview with Boarder Patroler

(Not word for word)
Yeah, you pretty much have no rights there. You do what we say without goofing off. If you want to get out of your car while in line to strech your legs you will have 5 superior officers with guns on you telling you "Get in your car now!" If you want to be seen out of a car you better be on the pedestrian walkway because there are so many mexicans that try and make a break for it. It is not a tourist spot, it is very militant over there.

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Originally Posted by War Angel

I say again - there's no price high enough to save and protect lives, certainly not the price of people's precious few hours and inconvenience caused by the OMG BODY SEARCHES!!!

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Too bad that "price" is used to nail the jelly in the wall, with a sledgehammer and a toothpick.

I would quote that "Those who would sacrifice their liberty for safety deserve neither" by ol' Ben, but I'm sure you've heard it a thousand times already. And I can't recall it verbatim. :cry:

Besides, this is giving into fear, this is terror. This is what the terrorists want, are you on the side of terrorists? Why do you hate freedom?

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Originally Posted by War Angel

Who are you to decide that? Is your, or anyone else's inconvenience REALLY too much to ask for, to save lives? I should hope not.

I say again - there's no price high enough to save and protect lives, certainly not the price of people's precious few hours and inconvenience caused by the OMG BODY SEARCHES!!!

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But its not SAVING lives...its taking them. They're arresting people and taking away chunks of their lives by locking them up because they have something that makes them a "suspected terrorist".

I have an aunt from Iran, and her parents' house has been searched several times without any sort of warrant for permission, and her brother has been confronted by various authority figures several times. Its rediculous. I remember hearing about 2 Arab guys walking down the street in Florida just getting arrested with no reason whatsoever. Then in mere minutes the news quit talking about it. Thats the one time I heard about it though. I remember when I flew to Chicago they seached me up and down about 5 times. They made me open my luggage, take off my shoes, and belt, and jacket, put it all through this x-ray machine, then they ran the little metal detector over me, then I walked through about three big dooway type ones, then they felt me down, and hand checked all my stuff, then I had to wait about 10 minutes while they were consulting with each other, and then they finally let me in. Its so rediculous...I mean I do have facial hair, but sheesh. :confused:

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I would quote that "Those who would sacrifice their liberty for safety deserve neither" by ol' Ben, but I'm sure you've heard it a thousand times already. And I can't recall it verbatim.

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What liberty am I sacrificing here, exactly? I just have to wait longer at the air-port, and go through searches and stuff. Yes, it's not much fun, but it certainly doesn't harm me, and certainly not a price that's too high for my protection. At least, I value my life more highly than that mere inconvenience is costing me.

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Besides, this is giving into fear, this is terror.

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No, it's counter-measures, not terror. They're not preventing you from flying, or scaring the crap out of you. They just do certain mildly unpleasant things, to assure your safety, and others' as well.

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But its not SAVING lives...its taking them. They're arresting people and taking away chunks of their lives by locking them up because they have something that makes them a "suspected terrorist".

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Haven't heard of that, let alone seen any proof of such things happening. Frankly, if someone is a terrorist, I'd very much like to see them removed from their surroundings, and ship them to far-off places, or eliminate them (after a trial, of-course). Don't try to make me believe, a goverment would spend so much money, to send some random guy to the other end of the world, spend money on his empriosnment, without solid proof. For the goverment, that's a complete waste, nevermind the actual fiendishness of such an act.

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I remember when I flew to Chicago they seached me up and down about 5 times. They made me open my luggage, take off my shoes, and belt, and jacket, put it all through this x-ray machine, then they ran the little metal detector over me, then I walked through about three big dooway type ones, then they felt me down, and hand checked all my stuff, then I had to wait about 10 minutes while they were consulting with each other, and then they finally let me in. Its so rediculous...I mean I do have facial hair, but sheesh.

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I'm a bright-eyed, fair-haired Israeli, and I go through that every single time I'm at the air-port, here. And that, even though the chances of someone like me being a terrorist are ZERO. But, it has to be done to everyone, otherwise it's un-just and discriminating.

On the whole, if you disagree with air-port security regulations, I guess you haven't learned the lesson 911 taught you.

The point here is that it's racial profiling, which is illegal.

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Originally Posted by War Angel

Who are you to decide that? Is your, or anyone else's inconvenience REALLY too much to ask for, to save lives? I should hope not.

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Get over yourself. I already said I didnt mind being searched. The fact that they had to search me three times was quite obviously ridiculous. It shows they either a) don't communicate with eachother, which could mean a terrible hole in their security or b) they just enjoyed messing with me because of how I was dressed.

Why didnt they search anyone else at my terminal? Why just me? And why did they have to make a spectacle of me when they did it? Because I was the only one who looked suspicious? That's bull.

I wouldnt have minded a recheck. That's fine. But after they did the same thorough check they did at the security checkpoint and left me alone, another one came and did it again. Like they were goading me into yelling at them or something. It was all highly uncalled for.

Yet another reason not to live here. If you even look like a terrorist you get screwed by the government.

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Originally Posted by War Angel

Who are you to decide that? Is your, or anyone else's inconvenience REALLY too much to ask for, to save lives? I should hope not.


EVERYONE gets, or at least should get searched, and their baggage checked. Or else, you'd be looking at a second 911.

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My inconvieniance will not save lives. If we lax up on airport security nor, do you have any idea what will happen? The exact same things that went on prior to 9/11. absolutely NOTHING. Extra security is a joke. If someone wanted to make a terrorist strike against this nation there is not a single thing the governemnt or the police could do about it. ever. It's 100% out of their control, and it always will be.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

Like they were goading me into yelling at them or something.

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I have had that happen to me before. It's easiest to just be polite and ignore them. I've had the immigration guys at the airport do it, of all people. Now the vice principal out my school has taken it upon herself to do it. and we wonder why some kids are so violent and rebellious? What a joke people are. really. :p

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Originally Posted by Nait

I would quote that "Those who would sacrifice their liberty for safety deserve neither" by ol' Ben, but I'm sure you've heard it a thousand times already. And I can't recall it verbatim. :cry:

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I however can, and will, because i have nothing better to do.

"Those who would sacrifice essential liberty, for only a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Oh I don't react to them. I'm always polite, because they could just be doing their jobs, regardless of whether they are or not, I wont give them the satisfaction of blowing up at them. That'd only make me wind up detained no doubt, and I wanted to get home.

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Why didnt they search anyone else at my terminal? Why just me? And why did they have to make a spectacle of me when they did it? Because I was the only one who looked suspicious?

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Those are the only problems I can see here. They should check everyone, 'cause a bomb can be carried by the least likely of people. They should also treat their job with respect, and perform it with dignity. Searching someone at the air-port should not be a humiliating act, or a degrading one.

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Extra security is a joke. If someone wanted to make a terrorist strike against this nation there is not a single thing the governemnt or the police could do about it. ever. It's 100% out of their control, and it always will be.

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And you're 100% wrong. That's a fatalistic and wrong view on the matter. Security DOES make a difference, and can prevent catastrophes, and has proven so time and again. Now, let's suppose for a moment (a brief one, because this is absurd) that security doesn't help - what will? Or do you suppose we do nothing, and just count on the goodness of the terrorists for our protections and safety?

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Yet another reason not to live here. If you even look like a terrorist you get screwed by the government.

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I'd like to see you live somewhere where people get killed, 'cause the goverment doesn't care.

You don't see a problem with them searching the same person three times? If I didnt have a weapon the first time, I didnt have a weapon the second time, why would I have one a third time? The first and second, fine. I came in. I was searched at the checkpoint. I went from the security checkpoint, said goodbye to my friend, went to the bathroom, and went to the terminal. I was searched again. Fine. I went back to my seat, sat down and proceeded to return to chatting on my phone with Mandee (Shlup). Then I was searched again. That's ridiculous.

Maybe he liked you? I got searched a lot at the airports when flying to Europe but it was because my belt always set off the metal detectors.

It was three different people. Otherwise, that'd be the case, cause I'm smokin hot.

The first time, there were two lines. The guards would 'randomly' select people to go into the 'ultra-super-duper search' line. I always take off most of my stuff before going to an airport because I have enough metal on to make a dectector explode (metal studded belt, rings, jewelry of all sorts, pins, steel toed boots). In the line, I went through a detector, my bags went through the X-ray, I was then checked over with a metal detector wand, and my bags were gone through and shoes seperatly looked over. These things (the wand and the bag search) were the ones repeated twice more.

I do like this explination though... I must simply stop being so sexy. xD

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You don't see a problem with them searching the same person three times?

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It depends why. Really... if they searched you three times, because they weren't well-connected between themselves, then it's bad. If they did it out of security concerns (whatever those may be, neither you or me are to judge), then it's alright. Not 'Yay, I got searched three times!' kind of alright, but the 'Meh.' kind. Always keep in mind they're just doing their job, which is essential, and for your own good, and others'. Be polite and cooperative, and it's likely to be smoother and faster for all concerned (no dirty thoughts, chums).

I don't see how can there be any 'concern' left after two thorough searches.

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I don't see how can there be any 'concern' left after two thorough searches.

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I can't think of too many, either, as three searches seem a bit too much for me as well. But, suppose there are, and several searches are to be carried out in every different section of the terminal, prior to the plane-boarding, to assure nothing... bad happens.

The airport security isn't a bad idea, but there are a lot of holes in it. A lot of the employees are doing things like what happened to TheAbominatrix and racial profiling is rampant. Prevention of terror should know no distinction. I don't think the random searches are too effective, after all, what are the chances that if you randomly search one person out of fifty, you're going to find the terrorist? Not that great. I favor increased security in other areas.

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

The airport security isn't a bad idea, but there are a lot of holes in it. A lot of the employees are doing things like what happened to TheAbominatrix and racial profiling is rampant. Prevention of terror should know no distinction. I don't think the random searches are too effective, after all, what are the chances that if you randomly search one person out of fifty, you're going to find the terrorist? Not that great. I favor increased security in other areas.

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That I fully agree with. I mean, I dont really think the terrorists would do the same thing twice, but if they're gonna increase security, they should do it right.

I'm more concerned at the fact that they're all but ignoring so many other venues and concentrating their efforts on airports. My friend lives near a resevoir, and the security there is limited to a barbwire fence. Easily passed, easily saturated with dangerous chemicals. We need to be mindful of other means, and be willing to admit that we can't watch everything.

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Originally Posted by War Angel

On the whole, if you disagree with air-port security regulations, I guess you haven't learned the lesson 911 taught you.

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That has to be the most narrowminded comment I've seen posted on this message board in my 2 years here. You're not all knowing, sorry to break the news to you, and you arn't better than me.

What 'lesson' was it supposed to teach me? "OMG BE AFRAID OF FLYING WITH SKERRY ARAB PEOPLE!"? Umm no, sorry, not happening.

And I never said I was against being searched. I'm talking about the whole racial profiling part of it and arresting people for no substancial reason, and personally I don't give a trout how dumb you may think I am. Just quite the whole self righteous kick now please. Besides you need your head checked if you think all these checks are gonna keep terrorist from killing people. All this is doing is causing more control through fear. I mean, now all they have to do is blow up the planes while they're still their at the airport and they kill all the people being held up in the airport because of the damn searching! Way to convinience the terrorist objectives, huh!

See I'm smart and can come up with theorys on terrorist ideals too! YAY! :D

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I'm talking about the whole racial profiling part of it and arresting people for no substancial reason,

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I'm against selecting people based on race (though, people from Arab countries SHOULD be kept under closer watch, 'cause guess what, 99% of the terrorists so far have been Arabs. And that's a simple, un-deniable fact), and I think EVERYONE should be searched and gone through the same procedures. But getting all bitchy, 'cause precious you got searched, and your luggage scanned... that's just wrong, and without proportion.

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Besides you need your head checked if you think all these checks are gonna keep terrorist from killing people.

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Yes, me, and all the rest of the terror experts, who seem to think differently, and have had decades of experience the problem. But you know better!

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You're not all knowing,

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Not nearly, but this is an area that I can say I know quite a bit about.

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What 'lesson' was it supposed to teach me? "OMG BE AFRAID OF FLYING WITH SKERRY ARAB PEOPLE!"? Umm no, sorry, not happening.

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No, the lesson is that there are dangers out there, and being American doesn't make you impervious to them. That in order to keep you safe, and everyone else safe as well, some (minor) sacrifices of convenience have to be made. And that price really is pretty damn low, for the conservation of life.

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I don't give a trout how dumb you may think I am

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I don't debate with dumb people. And believe me, there are quite a few that I don't debate with, 'cause they are.

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Originally Posted by War Angel

I don't debate with dumb people. And believe me, there are quite a few that I don't debate with.

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:greenking

Strider asked that I close this because certain people have caused this conversation to degenerate into childish attacks. Good job, guys.