Final Fantasy, controversial, what (some religoius stuff too)

I was reading up on LFF about how on the show "Filter" about the top ten most controversial games. Somebody said that FFVII was close to being on that countdown, how can it be controversial other then the fact that there is a crossdressing scene in the game. The thread also said stuff on how each FF game has something simbolic involving Christianity being evil and killing god, the only FF game that I seen that was like that was FFX. Somebody explain how each FF game has something symbolic like that because I don't see it.

Some aspects of FF games have names of deities or other such religous things.
I just looked up Shiva, and she's One of the principal Hindu deities, worshiped as the destroyer and restorer of worlds and in numerous other forms. Shiva is often conceived as a member of the triad also including Brahma and Vishnu.
Shiva is also (Judaism) a period of seven days of mourning after the death of close relative.

I'm sure there's a lot more, but I was looking up Shiva because I remembered hearing about her before in the movie "Bubble Boy" (the newer one).

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Originally Posted by Joel

I was reading up on LFF about how on the show "Filter" about the top ten most controversial games. Somebody said that FFVII was close to being on that countdown, how can it be controversial other then the fact that there is a crossdressing scene in the game.

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I can't think of another game that has sparked debates quite like Final Fantasy VII. The game has been out for 8 years and people still argue over exactly what happened. For added drama, visit the Squaresoft board on Gamefaqs and mention that you like the game. Watch as all hell breaks loose.

But how though, I don't see the controversy in that game and I've beaten it like five million times.

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Originally Posted by Doomsday

Just type in The legend of [insert mythological creature from FF] on google, and you'll find the legend. Kraken is supposed to be this giant squid who sank a whole bunch of ships. It's pretty cool what you can find out.... anywho, back to the point.....

There is reference to lots of religious things in FF, like in FFX Japanese version, Kimahri's Spirit Lance is called Loginus, which is the roman guy who stabbed Jesus with a spear......or was the spear called Loginus? Anyway.......yeah

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The spear was called Loginus.

Anyway, people will always read too much into things all stir up ridiculous nonsense wherever they can. That's the nature of humanity it seems. Show someone a blank sheet of paper, and chance are they can think up something about it being evil and/or dangerous.

One minor reason that FFVII stirred up some controversy with parents was it was the first Final Fantasy games, and one of the first games in the US in general, to contain swearing.

Which directly resulted in a number of children getting high and smacking up whores, obviously.

It's all a load of fuss over nothing. Videogames are a convenient scapegoat for parents nowadays because they are a medium that they don't understand.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

The spear was called Loginus.

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The Roman soldier's name was Longinus. Thus, his spear was the Lance of Longinus.

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Originally Posted by ShlupMullet

One minor reason that FFVII stirred up some controversy with parents was it was the first Final Fantasy games, and one of the first games in the US in general, to contain swearing.

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But it wasn't the first. Duke Nukem 3D contained more usage of the S word, and it had strippers, even though it predated FFVII. However, the game also had blood (quite a bit of it). Most FF games haven't actually had much in the way of overt religious themes, though. The first SaGa game has you killing god though, and that was released as Final Fantasy Legend.

Final Fantasy Tactics had loads of things about church being corrupt and looking only after its own interests, members of the church believing into a (Major FFT spoilers)false prophet who they believe is the Son of God but who's actually a demon from hell, so there sure are a lot of issues in FFT that could be considered controversial. I remember hearing something like it was banned in USA for a while because of the religional contents. Final Fantasies X and X-2 also have this theme of a religion being corrupt and the leaders of the religious groups or organizations using their authority on normal people.

Xenogears had a lot more though.

FFT was never banned. There was also a rumor that Xenogears wouldn't be released in the States because of its (over)use of religious symbolism. All nonsense.

I remember that rumor clearly. In fact, I remember the many petitions started over it. However, I think that the real deal was that Sony was nervous about bringing the game over so they wanted to tone down the religious themes in the dialogue, and the petitions were to leave them intact. Does that sound right to you, 'Kishi?

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Originally Posted by DJzen

But it wasn't the first. Duke Nukem 3D contained more usage of the S word, and it had strippers, even though it predated FFVII. However, the game also had blood (quite a bit of it). Most FF games haven't actually had much in the way of overt religious themes, though. The first SaGa game has you killing god though, and that was released as Final Fantasy Legend.

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Yeah, but how many people actually got to the end of Final Fantasy Legend? The very few who did buy the game probably gave up in the room with all of the fake orbs with Sei-Ryu. Fewer still probably even made it up to Dr. Cheap (Ashura). The six people who did make it to Creator were probably too tired to do any complaining. I guess it isn't as bad as Legend 2 when it comes to difficulty though.

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Originally Posted by DJzen

I remember that rumor clearly. In fact, I remember the many petitions started over it. However, I think that the real deal was that Sony was nervous about bringing the game over so they wanted to tone down the religious themes in the dialogue, and the petitions were to leave them intact. Does that sound right to you, 'Kishi?

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I think any controversy was made up in the minds of paranoid fans. There was an interview with some Square producer (I forget his name) in an issue of PSM around that time, and he said the religious stuff was not at all an issue in getting the game to America.

I want to say that the rumor was not really a rumor and more of a really great marketing ploy by square. They leaked that information down and it got out on the net and built up hype. Sounds plausible.

I can blatently see it in Xenogears and I sorta see it in FFVI but the only thing that was even somewhat related in FFVII was Jenova and how it's supposed to ploy off of "Jahova".

Also I'd like top point out that if these people who don't like the religious symbolisim in games I got a piece of advice for them, DON'T PLAY IT.

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Originally Posted by Joel

I can blatently see it in Xenogears and I sorta see it in FFVI but the only thing that was even somewhat related in FFVII was Jenova and how it's supposed to ploy off of "Jahova".

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I want to say it's spelled Iahova, that was in Indiana Jones, right?

Anyways, I don't see too much controversy in any of the Final Fantasy games. I think the controversial games should be stuff like GTA 3, Vice City and San Andreas. I have nothing against the games, but a lot of people do.

Castlevania's Cross weapon was changed to "boomerang" and stuff Breath Of Fire III also had you fight "God" (who happened to be female).

However, both of those are non-Final Fantasy games, so I guess they don't count. FFX had stuff like praying to statues and they even had their own Hymn (Hymn of the Fayth).

I personally don't care about that, 'cause I know what I believe, and no video game is going to change that.

The only people who seem to care are people that just like to get in a fit about it. Gives them something to do.

A lot of games and anime and such from Japan are ripe with religious themes. I have pictures of a toy called God/Jesus or something like that, he's a robot and he wields a cross. There's a store called God Clothing, and on my Korean phonebook the company stated is 'We Make Design OhMyGod'. They just have a different take on religion than we do.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

Show someone a blank sheet of paper, and chance are they can think up something about it being evil and/or dangerous.

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But they ARE evil and dangerous!!! Honest to God! Blank sheets of paper are the spawns of Satan. You can get papercuts and bleed to death if you do not handle them with care! :eek:

:D

Papercuts don't bleed.

Depends how deep it is.

In FFVII, the only religious bad thing I remember was the old and battered abandoned church, and the fact that you fight in it and generally destroy it.

If there is something like that in a game, I don't think it would offend anyone (certainly not me) and the people who do this are just nit-picking over stupid things. Most newspapers and people who don't play videogames just do this because, as Czanthor said, they don't understand it, and are afraid of things they don't understand.

eg.

"Oh my god I just killed someone on FFVII and am going to go on a mad rampage with a katana and start maiming cows."

Most wouldn't dream of it.

Gospel Decay has some interesting takes on symbolism in FFVII.

http://www.peach-arrow.net/ff7/index.php?id=background

Final Fantasy x
Anima: an-nee-mah (german) "my soul"

Thats kinda religious

They named Anima based on its definitive quality as the feminine inner personality, a play on the (SPOILER)fact that Seymour's mom is the fayth

Plus, it sounds cool.

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Originally Posted by Remnant

Gospel Decay has some interesting takes on symbolism in FFVII.

http://www.peach-arrow.net/ff7/index.php?id=background

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That's awesome. Good find, now I see it, at least it isn't as wide open as XG is.

They used symbolism in FFVII, but they didn't bash you over the head with it like Wisdom Tree or anything......

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Originally Posted by Lord Chainsaw

Yeah, but how many people actually got to the end of Final Fantasy Legend? The very few who did buy the game probably gave up in the room with all of the fake orbs with Sei-Ryu. Fewer still probably even made it up to Dr. Cheap (Ashura). The six people who did make it to Creator were probably too tired to do any complaining. I guess it isn't as bad as Legend 2 when it comes to difficulty though.

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Legend 1 was harder I'd say. The ending was interesting, with the creator stuff. The orbs thing sucked, I hated it. Of course looking at it now it was such an easy puzzle, but for a little kid it wasn't so easy!

I enjoy the religious allusions in these games. Religion is man's most interesting creation.

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Originally Posted by Lord Chainsaw

For added drama, visit the Squaresoft board on Gamefaqs and mention that you like the game. Watch as all hell breaks loose.

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Yeah, but it is gamefaqs. The only message board I've dared read that's made me shake my head more is yahoo's message board. Geez, that place is enough to make even the most fervent believers lose their faith in humanity.

Anyway, the people that get all up in arms about the religious symbolism are probably just looking for a reason to hate on the game. That, or they take symbolism way too seriously.

[q=Kawaii Ryûkishi]Papercuts don't bleed.[/q]
They can. I've had one that bled, but what's worse is getting lemon juice on a paper cut :radred:.

Final Fantasy 1 I don't really see any religion bashing except the typical it's magic and demons and generalized stuff.

FF2 Pandemonium castle is known as the castle of Hell and all the mini-boss/boss fights have the names of demons in the Jap version but were changed in origins.

FF3 Been way too long since I've beaten this game, I don't remember.

FF4 Don't seem to recall anything contovercial.

FF5 See FF3. 3 was beaten right after this one so it's been a while longer.

FF6 Goddesses and maniac bad people and kefka turning into a relative god are all baddy bad bad.

FF7 Besides religous stuff mentioned thiers a lot of homosexual undertones in the game.

FF8 Time travel is evil! wuuuuuuuu! Again magic as in all these games.

FF9 People being man-made (black mages) instead of godly made is anti-religion.

FF10 As mentioned in thread.

FF10-2 As mentioned in thread.

FF11 Still workin on it. Is it really possable to beat this game?

I beat legends 1, once. Many years ago. Beat legends 2 several times though.

well... ffx really grillslaps religion by portraying yevon the way it does. i must say that that game has some of the best story/theme i've ever experienced.

Forgot to mention the tower of Babil in FF4, Babil was an ancient civilization destroyed by god.

Well, to be fair, you forgot to mention an enormous amount.

I saw that too.

FFVII does have that whole overthrowing the government thing going on. And Tifa has huge breasts. If that doesn't spell controversy, I don't know what does.