http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...r_041031114949
.
.
.
.
you were expecting some sort of anti-america rant weren't you
Printable View
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...r_041031114949
.
.
.
.
you were expecting some sort of anti-america rant weren't you
That certainly is not good news. When will the day come when nukes are finally outlawed worldwide?
Take care all.
Hopefully before we destroy the world.Quote:
That certainly is not good news. When will the day come when nukes are finally outlawed worldwide?
Oh, hey, I see another war coming.
I think I'm going to get a house in the South Seas soon, I want to leave Babylon. Like Paul Gauguin.
In theory, they are.[q=Shadow Nexus]Oh, hey, I see another war coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
[/q]For sure. Soon Uncle George is going to tell that world that only America and its allies are holy and pure enough to be allowed to own and use illegal weapons of mass destruction.
And when that day comes I'm moving to England.Quote:
For sure. Soon Uncle George is going to tell that world that only America and its allies are holy and pure enough to be allowed to own and use illegal weapons of mass destruction.
I cannot imagine America ever giving up its beloved nuclear warheads (approximately 7000 of them).
As for Iran. Are they not seeking out nuclear technology for power plants? Anyone know how wide the gap is between using uranium enrichment for power, and weapons grade?
Although I can't give my full opinion about the whole US and nuclear weapons stuff (because I would require several hours of typing, many invented and probably obscene words, and huge bmps, and possibly be banned and target of direct prosecution), I sincerely hope that the actual fear of an apocalyptic end of this world as we know it will be enough to disuade those who spend 70% of the world's money in making nuclear weapons (instead of feeding the other 50% of the world which is dying right now of poverty and hunger) to think a bit and try to carry on with the message of peace that so many people try to spread.
Ahem.
Nightwish rules!
I have faith that any one able to obtain nuclear power has enough logic to use it wisely.
Dude, how can nuclear weapons be used wisely?
By blowing Rush Limbaugh up......
Seriously though, bad bad news indeed. =\
When will we ever get peace?
Yup. Looks like Im going to be in that war. Oh yeah, the Iranies are researching nukes for energy purposes alright!!Quote:
Oh, hey, I see another war coming.
Probably never, its human nature?Quote:
When will we ever get peace?
Human nature, in my opinion is too fickle to be strictly savage and warlike. Instead, I'd say, it's easy to persuade one way or the other. If you can achieve peace and make everyone understand how and why it was achieved, then it will last. If, on the other hand, you can make it seem as if war is the only option, on all sides, then it becomes inevitable.
Take care all.
War is pretty much inevitable, seeing how things are at the present. I wouldn't even count out the use of nuclear weapons just because humans are stupid enough to use them.
War can be avoided if the people in power choose to avoid it at all costs and take the right steps to avoid it.
For example:
During the height of the Cuban Missle Crisis, JFK received two letters from the Russians. One was very bellicose and seemed to be almost promising war whilst the other was very clearly anti-war. One was clearly a fake, but which one? Everyone was completely at a loss for what to do until Robert Kennedy said, "Just respond to the anti-war one" which is what happened. It turned out this was indeed the real letter and thankfully, in part, this is what helped us avoid war.
Take care all.
You do realise that if we ever do come into contact with an alien race which for some reason is aggressive in any kind of way, we will need nuclear weapons to defend our planet. I know that's a very extreme point of view, but the possibility will always exist throughout time and for that reason I don't think nuclear weaponary should be outlawed. It would kind of suck if they came down and attacked the crap out of us and we had nothing to defend with on a large scale. "Oh, bugger. If we had those nukes we outlawed last year we'd probably be okay, but now let's roll over and die. Talk about a shot in the foot."Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
I do however think that it should be extremely heavily controlled, much more than it is now. I'm just a firm believer in progress and that includes military and weaponary aspects, and I believe making a technology illegal isn't the way things should be done - instead, they should be made illegal in any kind of warfare and nuclear weapons should be used only for scientific purposes. Is that how it is now? Oh well.
Well that's simply politics. They know that we know it's false. However the same happens in all of the planet, most politicians lie, and that's simply because sometimes it is unavoidable. And not only US politicians lie, but german also, and french and british and chinese and argentinian (especially argentinian, God sometimes I'm ashamed of my country).Quote:
Oh yeah, the Iranies are researching nukes for energy purposes alright!!
It's politics.
Haha... we are that agressive race. And i pitty any aliens who come into contact with us. :greenie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
On a more serious note, if an alien ship ever came towards the earth it would most likely be known centuries in beforehand and thus if people deemed it necessary nuclear weapons programs could be reinstated in due time. Not that i think any race would go all the way over here just to wage war. You see if they managed to come all the way over here it means that they survived their own nuclear age and shouldn't be all that agressive.
And all in all, we and our nuclear weapons are a much bigger threat to humanity than aliens are.
Actually.. if aliens do come here in the future. My biggest worry would be that some extremist faction would fire a nuclear warhead at them and kill them or start a war. Actually.. extremist faction or extremely paranoid imperialistic nation.
Haha, it's all very true. Of course, it can always go both ways. :) While we're only human, there's a good chance that they could be better (Vulcan! Peace is logical!) or worse (er, Klingon? I guess).
I've been watching too many sci-fi series lately. Battlestar Galactica and Voyager make me happy. :D
If any alien race can make faster-than-light ships that could get them to Earth, then their technology and engineering are probably of such a level that nuclear weapons wouldn't threaten them much. It'd take a heck of a load of energy to break the light-speed barrier, and to survive the process intact. Atomic explosions would kind of pale in comparison...
Nuclear weapons are good as a deterrent, but when you get a handful of elitist superpowers trying to force others to give up that deterrent... the effect is lost. "The world will be safe when everyone has nukes" is a dopey philosophy, but "the world will be safe when America (etc) decides who has nukes and who doesn't" is even worse.
I definitely agree on the ending note of that post in particular. Like I said, it's not that we need a worldwide ban, it's that we need, er, world peace and to feed the hungry, and, er, uh... oh, that's just as dopey. :(
no it isnt
is humanity at it's depressed goth teen stage
eyeing the razor
pulling up the sleeves
Truly ... i think that whatever happens do America from this day onward ... is well deserved.
Bush turned America into the world's biggest terrorist country. The American's had the chance to view movies like 9/11, and even so ... they put back on power the most hateful man on earth?
I'd like to say that only 50% of American's are purely stupid, but as i am disregarding all the people that didn't care to vote, and who didn't show their support to bush due their carelessness ... i have to think that not even half of the American people are worth considering decent human beings.
Whoever voted on bush was either thinking only on financial future, or was simply stupid.
I don't even want to hear the word America spoken out loud.
A man who's campaign is terror, making their people more scared.... A person who has deals with the bin laden family ... who kills American's as if they were cheap material to be disregarded ...
(Well that part i can even uderstand , (being killed) it's something american's like. But doing it to other people who'd just like to see their lives back in order, is just criminal.
I am not even from Iraq, and i already hate america ... I'm glad i'm not in their shoes):
A person who sends the bills to the house of the deceased's family, being hat bill a sum of money, equal to one day's work multiplied by the number of days that person lived that month...
How can anyone live in such a country...
This election should not have even been an issue of Kerry's presidential caliber ... for whoever got the presidential chair would have done a better service for the country.
What matters is to replace that ...
First gore, a person who had more then caliber to be a president, and now kerry...
I could almost swear that bin laden an Bush are the best of friends, and that he aid's him (bush) and his own family by bringing war on America.
Well these next 4 years, will be just a loop of what's been going on. It seems America loves war, then enjoy it.
I completely agree with what you say, absolutely, but maybe you should be more polite with how you say it.
Not for another four years, that's for sure.Quote:
When will we ever get peace?
I also agree that now, whatever America gets, America deserves. Everything that the founding fathers worked so hard for just might be erased. I don't want to lose my rights, but America as a whole, deserves it now.
I'd disagree. "The people" might have made a poor choice, but they don't deserve to suffer for it. Those who re-elected President Bush are innocent; even if some of us may feel they are misguided (hope I don't earn an EoEO ban for saying that), they have done nothing worse than vote for the man they feel will do the best job as President.Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
It is the American people who will suffer if their choice of President proves to be wrong; but that's probably a double-edged aspect of democracy. The people get the freedom to choose their own leaders; in doing so, though, a sense of division or even guilt can arise, depending on the outcome. But it's still the best way forward. Let the people decide, rather than some unelected power making decisions that will bind those with no ability to control the outcome.
With any luck, the American President will listen to his people, and to common sense, to make the best decisions to avoid harming or prejudicing his people.
That was a very good speech and I see you have common sense and are not a blind fanatic like me. Congratulations :DQuote:
I'd disagree. "The people" might have made a poor choice, but they don't deserve to suffer for it. Those who re-elected President Bush are innocent; even if some of us may feel they are misguided (hope I don't earn an EoEO ban for saying that), they have done nothing worse than vote for the man they feel will do the best job as President.
It is the American people who will suffer if their choice of President proves to be wrong; but that's probably a double-edged aspect of democracy. The people get the freedom to choose their own leaders; in doing so, though, a sense of division or even guilt can arise, depending on the outcome. But it's still the best way forward. Let the people decide, rather than some unelected power making decisions that will bind those with no ability to control the outcome.
I voted for Bush. Am I included with the people who apparently deserve to be blown up, or whatever's been insinuated? When making claims like that, it's always best to think of specific people, so that the gravity of the statement becomes apparent. It's too easy to wish death on a whole generic people, but it's harder to do the same for a single person. BTW, in reference to whether I was only looking out for my financial future, or am I just stupid, I can honestly say, "What financial future?".
I understand what you mean, alot of the people I love voted for Bush. But I don't think you are going to get blown up, you're just going to lose your rights in my opinion. However, I am not so much talking about the people that did vote for Bush, but I am more directing this to the youth who did not vote. Had the youth voted, this would have turned out way different.Quote:
I voted for Bush. Am I included with the people who apparently deserve to be blown up, or whatever's been insinuated? When making claims like that, it's always best to think of specific people, so that the gravity of the statement becomes apparent. It's too easy to wish death on a whole generic people, but it's harder to do the same for a single person. BTW, in reference to whether I was only looking out for my financial future, or am I just stupid, I can honestly say, "What financial future?".
Didn't you see Indipendance Day? Nukes did nothing, man. If aliens attack us, we're all screwed until some drunk idiot drives his plane into the ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
As much as i agree i still think i want every weapon at my disposable to keep the human race from being wiped out by aliens. Or if nessecary destroy the planet so atleast they wouldnt have anything to gain. j/k about t3h last part.
This has gone completely and utterly off-topic. First, you have dumped away the main topic: Iran, US and the nukes. Second, you have started to make serious theories about the absolutely distant possibility of an extraterrestrial contact, and third, you think that this contact would be agressive and would eventually lead to a war.
Man!
You're right. Aliens are something to worry about if and when they come, and then only if they have hostile intentions. The real issues we're facing today are quite a lot more pressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireng
I'm pretty sure that Iran is not going to start a nuclear war with anyone, any more than the US would. It's simply not a sensible decision for a government that likes having a population to govern. Iran's a more liberal Islamic government than the extremists who get the media attention; they're fairly strict, but not dangerously fundamentalist, so they'll not willingly throw away their own lives and those of their people.
However, like the US, they'll be prepared to use force in self-defence. Other world powers are always saying, "we want you to obey our demands and let our inspectors tour your country, to see if you're developing weapons like ours, which we think you're not allowed to have because we don't like you. We're prepared to bomb your country if you don't obey our demands, because it's our job to set the rules about what you're not allowed to do, even if we don't follow those rules ourselves."
Failure to heed these words makes one a "rogue state", apparently. I shudder at the thought of how Great Britain, for instance, would react if (for example) the Russian government "demanded" that they open their nuclear power plants and weapons silos for inspection.
A fear of being treated like a subservient, second-class country could drive a lot of states to war. Threats of intervention from the west were part of the reason for North Korea's increased arms production.
Certain countries have a history of violence. Iran and North Korea are two such nations. It's not about good guys or bad guys... simply that the USA is the strongest nation in the world, and it and its allies want to keep their enemies and potential enemies in check. It's not about double stanards, since this is not a moral issue we're dealing with here. If you're okay with a country like North Korea having nukes (which it does, shiver at the thought..), then you're the fool on the hill, living in a world of rainbows and lollipops. It's just not right, and may endanger you, people you care about, or just about any other aspect of life.Quote:
A fear of being treated like a subservient, second-class country could drive a lot of states to war. Threats of intervention from the west were part of the reason for North Korea's increased arms production.
Letting our enemies have too much power in their hands is risky. Any oppurtunity to disarm them should be attempted. If Iran develops nukes , eventually, you can be quite sure they won't be holding them for long. ;)
I'd be more worried about who we put in Congress than who we put in the Oval Office. Bush had the ability to do everything he's done because the House and Senate didn't do anything to stop him. We never declared war on anyone, as that's something only the Senate can do.
We're not going to lose our rights. Bush doesn't have that kind of power, nor would he dare even attempt something like that. Bush is weak. He sticks to his path and pushes on ignoring everything else around him. He's not the kind of man that should be in power, for sure, but his powers are limited, Congress just isn't expressing these limitations.
Sure, I'm upset that Bush was put back in power, but it's not like if Kerry won the election everything would go away. We're in too deep now, and we can't just pull out and leave everything alone.
I think the US should slowly fall back into an isolationist society. For the most part, I don't think one country should have any right to boss another country around unless they pose an imediate threat, and even then, that's what the UN is for.
For those who argue that the UN never works, that's because the United States never gives them a chance to work. When the UN inspectors found no "Weapons of Mass Destruction", the US jumped in. We didn't find anything etiher. Wow, the UN was right! >_>
EDIT: I found this appropriate for the conversation.
The world today seems absolutely crackers,
Where nuclear bombs could blow us all sky high,
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger,
It's depressing and it's senseless and that's why...
I like chinese... etc.
[q=War Angel]Certain countries have a history of violence. Iran and North Korea are two such nations.[/q]Same goes for for the UK and USA. 19th century British colonial imperialism is the only reason I am living in the country I'm in; there'd be no-one of English descent here otherwise. Violence is a sad fact of human history, and no-one is exempt.Only if they're given a reason to use them. Any country that starts a nuclear war is bringing about its own destruction, so it'd take something extreme to trigger it.Quote:
It's just not right, and may endanger you, people you care about, or just about any other aspect of life.
I feel compelled to mention that the only country EVER to use nuclear weapons in war is the USA, when it destroyed civilian population centres in Japan to end the second world war.
If only one country, or one select group of countries has nuclear weapons, then they're free to use them against whoever they please, since no reprisal will be possible. Also, if smaller 'rogue nations' are going to be forcefully disarmed one by one, where does it stop? The USA and the Russian Federation aren't always the best of friends. What happens when Asia and the Middle East are disarmed, and the US decides that Russia's not friendly enough to be permitted a nuclear arsenal? How about France, India, or the UK? The next British PM mightn't be as keen as Blair to work with the US. Could this fact, alone, provide the US with reasons to demand its disarmament? You can see where I'm going with this - eventually, you have true 'imperialism' by one nation using its overwhelming power to demand that smaller, weaker countries follow its orders, if not its examples.In theory, I'm supposed to ban you from this forum for two weeks for saying that.:p It's the new policy. But anyway, I'm not "okay" with the thought of North Korea having atomic weapons. It's a worrying thought, but ONLY because of the probability that the US's response would provoke them into using those weapons. Simply having nuclear arms is not an inherently harmful state of affairs; but when circumstances create the possibility of those weapons being used, I do grow fearful. Take India and Pakistan. Both have nuclear weapons, and they've been in a long-running conflict over Kashmir. If that conflict escalates, it could trigger a full-scale war, possibly a nuclear one. But as it stands, things are not bad enough for that to happen. The nuclear deterrent should stay the hands of both governments. Same goes for the Middle East. Israel's formidable nuclear arsenal will prevent it from being the victim of another mass invasion; but the lack of any counterbalance - i.e; any other nuclear-capable neighbouring state - contributes to the climate of fear and suspicion, especially when the outside world continues to badger other nations about the evils of owning illegal weapons of mass destruction.Quote:
If you're okay with a country like North Korea having nukes (which it does, shiver at the thought..), then you're the fool on the hill, living in a world of rainbows and lollipops.
Nuclear arms are, in a way, the ultimate threat. They have the greatest potential to cause destruction; the only defence is the counter-threat of a nuclear strike. Give one state this overwhelming power, and you basically give it the means to coerce and dominate any other nation it chooses. Fear, and sheer survival instinct will compel compliance from the underdog state, whose people will lose any real sense of freedom and independence.
That is why nuclear weapons should not be confined to one select "team". There needs to be some sort of balance, for all our sakes.
Of course, we'd all be better off without the damn things, but that's just not a realistic possibility. No-one's going to be the first to fully disarm, not when so many other nuclear-capable powers could take advantage of their act and ignore any promises they might have made to follow suit.
Every nation should have a nuclear arsenal. That way, every nation in the world is militarily on an equal playing field. The good thing about nuclear weapons in comparison to standard weapons, is that quantity isn't so important. A small nation can be on equal might to a large one. The US for example, has enough nukes to destroy the entire world, several times over. More simply becomes overkill. If everyone had a nuclear arsenal, there would be no military superpower anymore, because once *everyone* in the world can destroy the entire world with a few dozen or so nuclear weapons, what nation really has the upper hand? If everyone had sufficient nuclear weapons, it would then be as if noone at all had nuclear weapons. Isn't that the goal?
Ever read that short story about the man who gave the retarted boy a loaded gun?
[q=Garland]Every nation should have a nuclear arsenal. That way, every nation in the world is militarily on an equal playing field. The good thing about nuclear weapons in comparison to standard weapons, is that quantity isn't so important. A small nation can be on equal might to a large one. The US for example, has enough nukes to destroy the entire world, several times over. More simply becomes overkill. If everyone had a nuclear arsenal, there would be no military superpower anymore, because once *everyone* in the world can destroy the entire world with a few dozen or so nuclear weapons, what nation really has the upper hand? If everyone had sufficient nuclear weapons, it would then be as if noone at all had nuclear weapons. Isn't that the goal?[/q]Good in theory. However, an over-abundance of nuclear weapons would substantially increase the chances of terrorists or rogue individuals getting their hands on the weapons. When it's a state that's holding the button, no-one's going to risk starting a nuclear conflict. But an international group with no "homeland" has nothing to lose by using WMDs to strike at its enemies. A nuclear retaliation isn't possible against such an attack, so they'd be likely to "get away with it", more or less.
Even now, there are plenty of nuclear arms that simply aren't accounted for. In the years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they lost about a hundred "suitcase bombs" - portable nuclear bombs the size of a large suitcase. Relatively low yield compared to the kind used in cruise missiles, and pretty insignificant compared to thermonuclear weapons, but still enough to devastate a city. And a hundred of them simply went missing. Imagine how bad it could be if every nation had its own supply of such weapons...
It's in human nature to kill each other. A mistake in evolution, maybe. Soon(well) we may evolve into a superior species who do not fight, or destroy the world.
Terrorists, they are ready to launch a nuclear warhead anytime, without thinking of the consequences. What human being would possibly want to callously murder millions of innocent men, women, and children just because they 'hate x country' or want to 'send a message'. The only message the civilised world gets from that is that these people are a bunch of headcases. If it's a fight for freedom you want, leave us out of it.
Then you get to the governments. Many governments are probably corrupted with power and money, and the terrorist network may be so deep, the people in power are under the control of terrorism, or are ones themselves.
Countries are always spying on each other, trying to have better weapons and armies than the other, which makes said country keep researching into new, more powerful weapons to defend themselves, which means there will be more and more weapons for the wrong people to get their hands on. Nuclear weapons will never disappear, because the people like the sense of security they get from knowing that noone dare attack them, because we have nuclear weapons to defend ourselves. Which brings the point that nukes are used for defence, not attack.
Once a fully blown nuclear war breaks out, we may finally understand that killing each other is bad, and peace is the way forward. But it may be too late.
They would then shake hands and play Final Fantasy.
Nukes are OK.
As long as you're not Muslim ;)
What is that supposed to mean? :mad2: I'm a descendant of muslims and feel directly involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk
I think he was making a sarcastic comment about America. Of course we all agree that noone should have nukes but seeing as how that will never happen the subject of who gets them should be based on intent. If you plan on using them to start hostile conflicts you definately shouldn't have them. If you keep them as a defence system it's not really good but it seems to be the way the world works. However, if the country changes its nuclear policy and starts becoming aggressive with them then their nuclear arsenal should be taken away.
No, it would mean that we can all blow each other up equally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garland
It's times like these when I when I want to become a bloody Antarctican hermit. Is there a way to move Canada farther from the US?
Dr. Strangelove becomes more and more important with every passing day.
Take care all.