http://www.wspa-international.org/si....php?page=1009
I agree with everything WSPA has said about this. It promotes cruelty, it is inhumane and a big step back in animal welfare.
What are your thoughts on this?
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http://www.wspa-international.org/si....php?page=1009
I agree with everything WSPA has said about this. It promotes cruelty, it is inhumane and a big step back in animal welfare.
What are your thoughts on this?
Well, unless it's not killing for the sake of tourism (i.e, a safari), but simply tourists who join regular hunting expeditions, then it's fine. Seals are being killed, and in moderation, it's fine. It's also fine if certain strange individuals want to take part in such an affair... but not tourist expeditions, intended for the killing of seals (or any other animal), simply for the sake of pleasure or sport.
Ohhhh, but isn't it fun to brutally slay cute animals? That is what makes you A MAN.
Seriously, I can't see the point in seal hunting. I mean...whats the point of killing the animal? The skin? As far as I know seals are not edible.
That's horrible. I want to take that seal in the picture home with me, but I can't. I don't think he'd live very long in my refridgerator. I wish I had a seal!
http://www.wspa-international.org/si...cutesealsq.jpg
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Thats messed up.
He is so cute............. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by devilmaykickass
Humans are so cultured. Let nobody ever say that we represent the best in subjective moral behaviour :D
What you said confuses me. It's okay for hunters to kill seals for sport, but not for tourists to do it? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by War Angel
They are edible. My uncle is a hunter and has a fair amount of seal meat. I don't know what they taste like though. :p I tasted seal blood once. I'll never do that again. :greenie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Nexus
And killing animals for sport is wrong no matter who does it. I don't particularly like hunting, but the food has to come from somewhere and that's where animals comes into the picture, I guess. But I hate it when animals die unneccesary. "Don't kill what you can't eat."
(SPOILER)I'm Norwegian :erm:
Exactly. When a hunter kills a seal, it means it's necessary, whether for fur, meat, fat, etc. When a tourist does that... he kills the seal with little skill, causing it great pain, damages the fur, and probably does nothing with the carcass later. That's wasteful, and wrong.Quote:
It's okay for hunters to kill seals for sport, but not for tourists to do it?
GET HIIMMM!!! :mad2: :mad2:Quote:
I'm Norwegian
Quote:
Exactly. When a hunter kills a seal, it means it's necessary, whether for fur, meat, fat, etc. When a tourist does that... he kills the seal with little skill, causing it great pain, damages the fur, and probably does nothing with the carcass later.
If a hunter kills a seal for sport, it's not killing it for anything necessary.Quote:
It's okay for hunters to kill seals for sport, but not for tourists to do it?
I am not against seal hunting if it is not excessive and it is done for food (well, now Levian just said seals are edible). I mean, if you can use the seals for the meat and the skin, then it's OK, as long as it is controlled and they don't end up getting the poor animals extint or screwing up the ecosystem. However, if it's just for the skin, yes, I find it unethical.
seals eat lotsa fish. One of Norway's major industries is commercial fishing. Perhaps the seal population is too large, threatening the livelihood of an already threatened industry, and the predator/prey ratio in this case is too large.
or, perhaps the polar bears, who eat mainly seals, would increase if the seal population is too high. Here in Coldest Hel, they're becoming quite the nuisance, polar bears. There was one a little while back that broke through a window, dragged a man out of his house and mauled him. This incident spurs hatred of the local peoples towards the bears, motivating a whole buncha meaningless hunting in retaliation.
methinks better to control the populations before they become troublesome. This must be done responsibly with a knowledgable guide, of course. But really, the only tourists who would sign up for this kinda thing would be hunters anyways and likely fairly good shots with a rifle, so the inhumane-ness of the kill is really rather a silly notion.
All the stuff I've read on it suggest seals are rarely shot, as that would damage the valuable fur. Seals, mostly babies, are clubbed to death and skinned.
This is all only as far as I know, and probably has a fairly inaccurate slant, as I'm a hippie, as my dad says. I'm sure there are many Norweigian hunters who make a livelihood out of this, and as long as they use all parts of the animal, I'm fine with it. But seeing photos of piles and piles of skinned, rotting carcasses tends to make one suspicious of a hunter's intentions, which is sad to say, but true regardless.
I think its terrible that human beings can go out and kill seals for tourism or because they do not want the seals eating the fish because they want to eat it or profit by it. Or any other reason.Seals need to eat fish, we don't. No one has to eat seal. And nobody has to sell fish to earn a living.
I was gonna post something mean about killing seals but then i saw the baby seal. I might have cried if nancy wasnt being a bitch on the phone.
L'k'here, maw! I caught m'self a snow pawsum, hyuk hyuk! Git the young'uns cuz we's havin' uh'selves a smorgee'borg!Quote:
Originally Posted by devilmaynotkickrsl
I know I never show much of a logical side to me, but I didn't find that very funny. Sorry.
Like anything, i doubt that it's illogical.
If there is a population control issue, then this is a good thing. And then it makes sense. Most tourists likely are hunters.
But this really does sound bizarre. I make my living butchering pigs (Which are some of the coolest animals on the face of this earth) and cows (Which are truly beautiful and wonderful creatures). So I can generally take the killing of animals in stride if there's a reason. But this sounds really stupid. There's gotta be a larger picture than I'm being told.
Otherwise, this is the kind of stuff that gives power to maniacs like PETA. Only an idiot would risk giving evidence that people treat animals cruelly by actually treating animals cruelly.
When have peta ever treated animals cruelly?! And why does it make sense to kill seals because according to human beings who want to kill them, so they can eat more of there food or profit from it they are overpopulated? We are over populated and are causing REAL problems, not them.
I feel bad saying that I am totally disgusted by this because I eat meat myself. My boss goes up north to go hunting every now and then and I always feel like telling him how cruel I think it is but then I realize that I'm eating the product of the act. I don't know, I think it's wrong to kill or eat animals but I was raised on it.
I rarely click links, but I just clicked this one.
I was under the impression that there were pictures of tourists smashing seals around with bats.
This is seal hunting for tourists.
WTF is everybody complaining about, exactly?
There's nothing about clubbing seals to death. If there's a seal overpopulation that is damaging the ecosystem, then it's even a better to start picking them off. (yes people are somewhat overpopulated, but that's an education issue. When I become a billionaire, I'll raise a massive agricultural education school across the world so we can squelch hunger forever and educate people. The only reason people starve or go bankrupt is because they're stupid. Or else because they've been robbed, but that's an unlikely scenario and it's one that most intelligent people should be able to recover from.)
But as for killing seals - so what? They're cute? Yeah. There's lots of cute seals. If they're a problem, we shouldn't let that interfere with our sense of doing what's right. If Norway can get tourists to do the killing, then why not make money instead of spend money to liquidate seal populations?
Of course, if you're all just a bunch of veetarians who are vegetarians because you don't support killing animals, then I know better than to try and debate or reason with that. So if that's the case, let's not argue.
Note: I may have been unclear. What I meant to say in my previous post was that it is my understanding that PETA is against the abusive treatment of animals. I meant that non-PETA people should continue to not mistreat animals to keep PETA from having valid arguments.
PETA mistreats animals, but the morons are too stupid to realize that they do it. For example, they bought a fat pig, raised for slaughter, to save it from slaughter. Now the poor tortured beast is tortured with life when it is too obese to live. Pigs will eventually get too large and it is more merciful to kill them and PETA doesn't understand that. (Farm pigs anyway. Wild boars live a different lifestyle, but PETA doesn't send pigs into the wild anyway)
Note 2: I have some personal beefs with PETA.
you were just punning all the way there.
death to PETA
Strange choice of words for such a touchy subject.Quote:
I have some personal beefs with PETA
How exactly are seals damaging the ecosystem?! Humans are the ones who are damaging the planet not seals. And as for all farm pigs getting to large to live thats just ridiculous. How fat a pig gets depends on what your feeding it, the same as with any animal, or person for that matter.
Poor seals. :(
You don't know anything about pigs, I presume. I have about 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaisa
And I thought that somebody said something about seal/fish/polar bear populations making a mess. (Ecosystem). If that's why Norway is doing this, then it's very justifiable.
If this is mindless hunting, then I'm afraid that I don't really care. This is the 20th century. Nobody's going to hunt the dudes to extinction.
I said that how fat a pig gets depends on what your feeding it. And that means i know nothing about pigs does it?! Your telling me that no matter how little a pig eats its going to grow obese anyway! Thats ridiculous. And no if there were more seals it would not cause any trouble for the polar bears because polar bears eat both fish and seals. And there are species that have been made extinct in recent years and there are animals that are diminshing in number everyday and could quite easily be hunted to extinction. And just because a species isn't going to die out doesn't mean that its not cruel to kill it. If a human is murdered you don't hear people saying oh well, who cares?, we're not going to become extinct.To only have feeling for your own species is just callous.
I believe that animals are on Earth for the sole purpose of being utilized by humans. If seals in Norway are most appropriately utilized when they are being exterminated by tourists, then I don't feel like arguing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaisa
I mean, what good is it to just have a bunch of seals lying around, wasting time on an icy beach? Huh? We could probably find a way to grow grass there, throw down some cows, and get some good beef out of the deal. I think somebody already said that seals were inedible.
Well, sheesh! What good are they then?
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Okay, so a lot of that was angry and semi-sarcastic. But I really don't think that you have a point. Callousness? Right. Again, I kill cows and pigs and I sell their meat. I mount their horns on mantlepieces and sell the skulls on ebay.
I do believe that the life of a human is worth far more than that of a seal. I mean, lot's of humans are stupid, but seals are still dumber. And more useless except for looking cute in some icy wasteland that I never plan to visit.
Again, there is nobody who will order the death of these seals for NO reason. So there's a purpose. I am confident in this. And that reason is probably more important than the lives of some seals. (No matter how "cute" or alive or helpless they are. Since when is helplessness a desirable trait anyway.)
The point is this is senseless killing of 1) a living creature and 2) a non-beneficial creature. Killing for sport is stupidity as it's just a waste of both capital and resources, both natural and otherwise. If there's a way you can use something to your benefit, you should. If you can't, why even bother it in the first place? We don't need seal fur to keep warm anymore, nor do we need fat to make oil. So why keep killing them? Cause it's fun?
PS: Overpopulation is a natural occurence solved in natural ways as long as man doesn't interfere. When man interfere's, weird stuff happens. The seal population is probably too large not because seals are becoming super seals, but because they're running out of places to live and their natural predators are being killed/scared off.
If you think the seals should be killed off for interfering with "our" ecosystem, then I think it's time to revisit biology class. If the planet is going to be fit to live on, we have to maintain it's cycle. When we screw with it, BAD STUFF HAPPENS.
Ugh.
Just root for WSPA. I'm indifferent. Take comfort in that I ain't jumping on a boat to hunt seals. I don't even hunt.
Anyway, I'm tired of this. We'll be running in circles soon if we debate too much.
While I don't like to repeat myself, I will do so.
Polar Bears prey mainly on seals. yes, they do eat other things because they are a super-predator in their environments, but their main food source is seal.
if seals become too plentiful, polar bears will increase in population. more prey, more predators.
seals cause no harm to anybody directly, but polar bears do. Especially here in the Land of Awesome People. They're starting to become quite a nuisance. One busted through this guy's window, dragged him outside of his house, mauled him, and left him for dead.
ever hear of Commercial Fishing?Quote:
And nobody has to sell fish to earn a living.
most of the southern part of Alaska depends on commercial fishing, particularly south western alaska, an area bigger than England and Scotland put together.
seals and sea lions will go through and pick the nets of the fish while the boats are pulling in other nets. how can we tell? cuz we see a buncha seals surfacing to breathe over by our other nets, and the fish remaining have huge teeth marks in them and the nets are all torn up. no, it wasn't sharks because there are very few sharks in alaska and they get caught up in the nets when they try to eat the fish.
and the world is not overcrowded. the entire human population could fit within the city limits of Orlando Florida. tree huggers try to say the world is overcrowded.
if you truly believe the world needs less humans, go ahead and try and thin the population a little bit. you won't get far, but hey. you're doing your part for the planet. <--- sarcasm.
If there are less seals for polar bears to eat there will be more people getting attacked by them. And due to global warming caused by humans of course. ice is melting sooner and sooner each year and the waters are starting to freeze over later. This means that polar bears are not getting enough food, and are having less cubs. So an over population of polar bears due to there being more seals is not going to happen. And because the ice is melting sooner and the waters are taking longer to freeze over and polar bears are not getting enough food more have started venturing into areas where people live to look for something to eat. And that is most likely why that man got dragged from his home. And people who do fish for a living will have to learn to accept the fact that there are other living things on this planet that rely on fish to survive. So there going to just have to put up with seals taking fish from there nets or find another occupation.Its bad enough that they have to suffer getting caught in fishing nets without people killling them because there taking fish which is the only food available for them, unlike humans.And if the seal population has risen that will be because the polar bears are eating less of them. And lets not forget that is because of humans. And whats there suggestion, to make more animals suffer because of something they have done. And we are over populated by humans. It doesn't matter whether there is enough space on this planet for them all. I personally want there to be some landscape left that isn't covered in houses. And i don't believe in going out and slaughtering living things to thin out there population. Thats your mentality not mine.
well it's not actually.Quote:
Thats your mentality not mine.
let's say that we leave the populations alone. let the fish and the seals and the bears just eat whatever they wish whenever. If there're too many seals, then the fish will be eaten by them, depleting the fish population. The increase in seals means more polar bears to eat them.
(By the way, melting polar ice is not hindering bear populations. ice is a detriment to the bears, actually)
now, once there's not enough fish for the seals to eat, they starve to death. once the seals starve to death, the bears start to starve to death.
now what's more cruel? maintaining the populations at balanced levels? or letting a bunch of animals starve to death because they devoured all their own food source?
and by the way, the population I was talking about thinning is the Human population. because if you truly believe the world is overpopulated by humans, then thinning the HUMAN population is the only real solution. all others are just half solutions that accomplish nothing and cause more problems than they solve. I DO NOT support the thinning of the Human population.
once you've studied biology a little more and you've gotten a little older, you'll learn that the media offers a skewed picture on this situation. Why does the media skew things? because people believe them and pay money to read about it.
Seals do not need culling they are not over populated. If seals and polar bears were left alone the seals would not become over populated so they would not all starve to death. And actually ice is not a hinderence to polar bears they catch seals on the ice or through holes in the ice. And if you read the whole of my last message you should see that i knew you were talking about thinning the human population. And Its you who needs to study nature further thats clear by your theory that if seals were not culled all fish, seals, and polar bears would die out.
A natural process isn't cruelty. It's nature. When humans kill for sport, it's cruelty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaydie Blayde
If you want to kill seals or anything else for warmth or food (read: SURVIVAL OF YOU), by all means. If you want to kill them because it's cool and you pay a guy a thousand bucks to do so, that's like legal poaching. I'm not saying the industry should be done away with, as long as it's for a purpose. If it's for playing hunter in the wilderness, then you're an idiot and I want to play "The Most Dangerous Game" with you. :p
Ha ha ha hee hee hee har har hoo hoo hehaha ha
~ahem~
Sounds good to me, just because something is "cute" doesn't mean it should get special treatment. If its ok to shoot deer its ok to shoot seal.
I give up. one cannot argue logically and reasonably with people unwilling to see or understand reason and logic.
I get the impression that people haven't first hand seen animals in the wild starving to death as a part of the natural process of things. well I have. I'd have rather shot the poor thing than allow it to die slowly and in agony. I heard the screams of the dying and saw the pitifully empty bodies of the dead. if you want to inflict that on some poor young animal, be my guest. it's disgusting.
No you can not argue reasonably or logically because your arguement has no reason nor is it logical. Give me one species that has ever died out due to it starving to death because of an over population , i rest my case. Every time an animal becomes extinct it is because of humans interference and cruelty.
If you're referring to me, as far as I'm concerned I'm being reasonable and logical. Nature has taken care of business far before you or me came around and tried to tell it what to do, so I'm content with letting it stay that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeBlayde
I'm not trying to be a bitch, though I've been known to cross that line. All I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to kill HEALTHY animals for no reason other than entertainment.
If you weren't referencing me, theeeeen wheeeeeeeeeee!
Just out of curiosity, when you say you've seen starving animals are you talking about wild animals, domesticated animals, or both? Because there's a huge difference... that would bring up another discussion entirely.
starving animals in the wild. and it's never the adults that starve, only the young.
you grow up in alaska, you walk the beaches, you see things. Wish to God I hadn't seen that, but I did. and actually, I was referring to a certain 17 year old with my last post.
Ok then.
*wheeee's*
That would be me then. And by attempting to make some kind of point about my age your proving that your really not as mature as you like to think you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeBlayde