Confused about the Sending, the Unsent, and the Sent. *ENDING SPOILERS*

Okay, In the near beginning of the game, Yuna does the Sending for all the people that died in the hands of Sin in Kilika. Lulu explains to Tidus that if the dead ones were not sent, then they became feins.

Later on, we learn that Auron was actually an Unsent, but, we don't see him as a fiend or trying to kill anyone. It gets even more confusing with Syemour. We kill him once, he dies, Yuna tries to send him, but fails, so Syemour is revived....HOW!? And WHY is he not a fiend?! (I picture Fiens as the monsters you fight in random battles)

Okay, then it gets even MORE confusing with Tidus himself! Since it is proven that a person that is not send comes back to life again (Seymour is proof. We kill him THREE FREAKING TIMES!!!!), so......Why couldn't Yuna just go: "Screw the sending of Tidus! I want Tidus back!" and there you go! Tidus comes back right then and there! (Since not doing the Sending on Seymour brought him back to life)

Oooooookaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.......I do not get it.

Lulu says something about if people did not accept death, then they became feins, but if they DID, then they did not become fiends...But, Tidus's mom accepted death, she went to the Fareplane and no sending for her.
How did Seymour come back to life? I thought that if he did NOT accept death, then he'd become a monster like the ones from the Random Battles stuff.
As with the case of Auron, how come he's not a fiend? Did he accept death? If so, then why is he still there? Why did he not go to the Farplane the moment he died like Tidus's mother did?

Aaaaah! I just confused myself even MORE!

Help clearing this up, please!

People that do not accept death become fiends if they are unsent, and this would have happened to the people of Kilika.
Those who do accept death do not become fiends, and travel to the Farplane of their own accord, as far as I know.
However, if something very strong bonds them to the living world then they will not travel to the Farplane. Examples of these people are Auron, Seymour, and Lord Jyscal. Although they accepted death (maybe not Lord Jyscal) they could not travel to the Farplane untill their mission in the living world has been completed. In Auron's case this was protecting Tidus and Yuna on the Pilgrimage, so he allowed himself to be sent when Siun had been defeated.
Seymour's mission was to 'liberate' Spira of it's suffering, but when he realised his task was impossible he gave in and allowed himself to be sent.
As far as I know, Tidus wasn't dead, as technically he wasn't alive to begin with, he was only a dream of the Fayth. For this reason he was able to go into the Farplane without any worries of disappearing, and for the same reason Yuna had no control over Tidus' departure.

Okay, i get it.

The peeps of Kilika would have turned into monsters if they were not sent. They did not accept death AT ALL!

People like Tidus's mother must have accepted death and did not have a strong bond in the world, so that is why she went to the Fareplan, because if she still had a strong bond to the living world, she would be like Auron, an unsent.

Auron and Seymour....Okay, i get it now, they are unsents because they still have strong bonds in the world. Seymour relized his plans for Spira's "liberation" sucked so he just accepted it and boom, he went away for good.

Tidus was a dream of the fayth in a way, he was neither alive nor dead...

Okay, one more question, If people like Auron are Unsents, because they still have strong bonds to the living world, then why didn't Tidus's mother stay on the earth to care for her son? I mean, in Tidus's flashbacks, the mother seemed to care for him a lot while Jecht was waltzing around town acting like an idiot in a way.
So...Did Tidus's mom quit loving him when she died or something? Because you would think she'd still have a strong bond to the guy.

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Originally Posted by The Chocobo Warrior

So...Did Tidus's mom quit loving him when she died or something? Because you would think she'd still have a strong bond to the guy.

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Tidus' mother went to the Farplane because she accepted death, and Auron tells you in one of Tidus' flashbacks the story about the lovebirds, where if one dies the other will die too because they cannot bear to go on living without them. So when Jecht went to Spira and was presumed dead, Tidus' mother decided to go join him (not in Spira, but on the Farplane, as this is where she thought he had gone). She didn't really have a reason to stay with Tidus as before she departed she entrusted Auron with his safety.

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As far as I know, Tidus wasn't dead, as technically he wasn't alive to begin with, he was only a dream of the Fayth. For this reason he was able to go into the Farplane without any worries of disappearing, and for the same reason Yuna had no control over Tidus' departure.

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You mean, wasn't alive during the game's events? Because I thought he WAS alive 1,000 years ago...and that the dreams were based off of the actual population of Zanarkand.

That's probably what you meant but I just wanted some confirmation that Tidus did indeed exist in the original Zanarkand, right?

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Originally Posted by skatehippie

You mean, wasn't alive during the game's events? Because I thought he WAS alive 1,000 years ago...and that the dreams were based off of the actual population of Zanarkand.

That's probably what you meant but I just wanted some confirmation that Tidus did indeed exist in the original Zanarkand, right?

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There is nothing in the game that either confirms or denies that Tidus was actually alive 1000 years ago. I believe that probably the original population of the dream Zanarkand was based on the actual population of Zanarkand, but 1000 years has past since the dream first started. People of the dream world lived, grew up, had children, died, just like in the real world. So I would imagine that Tidus is just a creation of the dream world and was never really alive in the first place.

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The peeps of Kilika would have turned into monsters if they were not sent. They did not accept death AT ALL!

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Well, the way I understood it, their "not accepting" death wasn't so much of a conscious choice as it was a result of the violent and horrific manner in which they died. I think that people who die in this manner, as a result of tragedy (before their natural time, so to speak) are the ones which need to be sent. With Sin killing people left and right, it would then make sense why so many fiends existed.

The people of Kilika were killed by Sin; that's a violent, unclean and fearful death. Not something they could accept, so they were bound to this world until the Sending was performed. The Sending isn't needed for people who accept their death before it comes, or who die without something strong binding them to the world of the living. Unsent people, like Mika, Auron and Seymour, each have a strong sense of purpose that prevents them simply fading away to the Farplane or becoming Fiends. Mika's sense of duty to Yevon and to Spira; Auron's promises to Braska and Jecht, and Seymour's desire to 'liberate' the world with the endless release of death. Once Sin was defeated, Auron needed to be Sent; his promises were fulfilled, so it was time for him to leave. When Mika learned of Yunalesca's defeat, he lost his sense of purpose and dissipated.

Tidus is different. When he vanished at the very end, and went to the Farplane, that wasn't because of the Sending. It was because Yu Yevon - the driving force behind the dream of Zanarkand - was dead. Expecting him to stay in Spira would be like expecting a light bulb to keep glowing after flipping off the switch.

I didn't think Tidus went to the farplane. He was a dream if the fayth and as such not "alive" nor able to become a fiend. He simply vanished because the fayth stopped dreaming.

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Originally Posted by WelshWonder

I didn't think Tidus went to the farplane. He was a dream if the fayth and as such not "alive" nor able to become a fiend. He simply vanished because the fayth stopped dreaming.

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I thought this too, to begin with, but the only time (SPOILER)Yuna sees Tidus in FFX-2 is on the Farplane, unless you get the good/perfect ending. I really don't know what to think. First we're told that (SPOILER)he's disappeared, then we're told he comes back... What's next? This is starting to remind me of Pinnochio - maybe Tidus'll reappear in FFX-3 as a 'real boy'!

LOL - Pinnochio! :p

At any rate, I thought that Tidus simply dissappeared too, but when I rewatched the ending, I saw that he actually meets up with Jecht, Braska, and Auron after leaving Yuna and Company, on what looks like the Farplane. Since Auron had just been sent to the Farplane, logically Tidus would need to be there as well in order to see him. Also, Braska should be in the Farplane too, since he died fighting Sin.

So if Auron and Braska are there, Tidus is in the Farplane, right? Okay, but, that does not explain why Jecht would be there if he, like Tidus, had never been real - if he had only been part of the Fayth's dream. So why is Jecht in the Farplane?

My theory is that Jecht and Tidus are special cases. That although the dream world was destroyed when the Fayth awoke, Tidus and Jecht weren't lost forever because they each had spent time outside of the dream world, in Spira. In essence, they had gained an aspect of reality. Therefore, they went to the Farplane rather than dissapearing.

I think that my theory also gives the writers of X-2 a little leeway, if not much. ;) Just a thought.

The only thing that makes me wonder (having not played X-2) is the fayth of bahmount (?)says that he is more than just a dream now but i still dont think he became "real."......do you think i could convince my AS Philosphy class to play this game!? never know it might be worth a try! :)

Tidus and Jecht both became more than a dream when they touched Sin. Sin made them "real", they are real in the sense that Yuna and others are real, but they are also tied to the dream world, as it created them. When the dream world left, so did they, but in being "real" they didn't just vanish, they went to the farplane. That's kind of confusing, bu that's the best I got at the moment.

Then what about Auron? He actually lived in the dream Zanarkand for ten years. How? How could just coming in contact with Sin make him be able to exist in a plane of existance that doesn't really... exist? Was it because he was an unsent, thus not quite existing, himself? You would think that one who is real can't phicically be in a realm of dreams.

Auron said that being unsent aloud him to ride Sin to the dream Zanarkand, so yeah I guess not quite existing himself aloud him to exist in the dream. That's a good question though.

So..you guys are saying someone dreamt of FFX? And that someone just had an ordinary sleep?

I thought Tidus was telling the story or his flashbacks and then you play his story.

"Listen to my story--This may be our last chance...)

Sorry if I complicate too much

First I have to say: BEST TOPIC EVER!

The way I see it, (SPOILER)Tidus, his mom and Jecht are dreams of the Fayth. The dreams are based on real people that existed in Zanarkand a thousand years ago. Tidus is based on FFX-2's Shuyin for instance, to me that makes sense. That explains why they look alike and all. But that Dresssphere stuff really sucks I think.

The one thing I don't fully understand is Sin, how can Sin transport people ( Unsent and Dreams of the Fayth for that matter ) through dream worlds and regular worlds? Is Sin some sort of portal? Also, what is the connection between Sin and Yu Yevon? I didn't quite get that.

Sorry if half of the post is off-topic, answer my questions if you feel like it. :D

Sorry that this topic is really old, but I thought I'd expound on the last question here...

not going to mark spoilers, because they're already in teh topic:)

Aite, when you go back to Bevelle towards the end of the game (none of the temples will let you back in before you do this, so you sort of have to if you missed any and want anima) you run into all those dead people, right? And have a nice chat with Bahamut's fayth.

(at least I think it is him. it could be any number of people that tell you this, like mika or someone)
whoever it is will tell you-- Yevon was the first summoner, and iirc, he wanted to become invincible, so he created an armor out of the souls of living people. He called the armor Sin, and the souls were the fayth in spira. This is why when you go through Mount Gagazet around the time that tidus faints and sees himself back in Zanarkand, Yuna tells you all that there's being a summoning taken place. (really bad verb tense there, haha) This is probably a mass embedding-into-rock that Yevon did way back when (I'm guessing he lived in Zanarkand, and possibly did a pied piper voyage up into the mountains so no one would find him before he finished encasing them into stone. (as to how he did that, I have no clue)) Anyways, the other summoners through the ages figured out that the only hope they had of breaking the unbreakable armor (sin) was to get someone that they really bonded with (yunalesca and lord zaon, braska and jecht, would-have-been dona and barthello) to willingly place themselves into the stone, and I'm guessing because it was done willingly, that it would override the unwilling sacrifice on the part of the first Sin armor. (ie, gagzet, perhaps?)

Of course, Yevon doesn't die when Sin dies, because he isn't a part of Sin. It's like how you have mothers that die right before their children are born and the kids can still be alive sometimes.

So in summary: Yevon=bad guy that wants power. Sin=living souls that bad guy makes into a new 'body' to live in.

Now, to answer your first part.

My guess is that the souls that yevon collects collect over time, otherwise each Calm would let the last fayth rest in peace (the ones in gagazet wouldn't be alive anymore, like they aren't at the ending) Because they add up (although, does yevon just hold onto them everytime the last material body dies while he takes the time to make a new body?) the original fayth (The pied piper ones:D) still retain the original essense of the first Sin (sin is truly eternal) It would seem though that Yevon can't completely control his bodies though. Just like Jecht was calm enough to listen to the Hymn of the Fayth in the second-to-last battle, I'm guessing the other fayths could rebel at times as well, long enough to have some of them dreaming of their beloved Zanarkand (this is the part I'm not clear on, what does zanarkand and the war with bevelle have to do with yevon? Gotta hunt machen down-- he might be the one that tells all this. or it might be someone back in bevelle) before it was destroyed (since I dont' remember this part, I can't explain anything about when or why they're dreaming of it)

Anyways, because some of the fayth are constantly powering the dream zanarkand (the same way others power the aeons) Sin, which those fayth compose a part of, is able to follow the link to the dream, from spira. Which makes sense.

What doesn't make sense (at least to me) is how jecht got to the real spira in the first place. The second to last calm (in the current yunapeople's spira time) must have just ended, and the fayth decided to go 'hey, let's make sure all that dream stuff is still working!' and picked up Jecht by accident (perhaps they also got his friends and they were executed while jecht was in prison:D).

That or Jecht was destined to find the crystal and save the princess! wait. . .wrong games, but it's the only seemingly logical conclusion I can come up with:)


Anyways-- I hope this made some sense, if you're still reading these topics (well, two weeks isn't *that* long. . .) This part of the game is one of the reasons I like FFX so much:D (that and Auron)

*looks up*
-f. a banned user-- forgive me for posting this then, but I really don't feel like letting it go back into the ether of byte-age:/

well, to retain some semblance to the topic, we'll go back to the second-to-last post.

Notice how the game starts with the scene in zanarkand. Notice how that scene comes up again. The entire first half of the game is a flashback. 'I was kind of getting tired of this whole 'sin's toxin thing' instead of 'Man, I'm getting tired of this whole 'sin's toxin thing'.

After that point it changes tense, and yay, you actually get to the good parts:D

I like some of your explanation back there - I never went back to the temples because I didn't know I could talk to each Aeon's fayth; next time I play FFX I'm going to have to do that. :)

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My guess is that the souls that yevon collects collect over time, otherwise each Calm would let the last fayth rest in peace (the ones in gagazet wouldn't be alive anymore, like they aren't at the ending) Because they add up (although, does yevon just hold onto them everytime the last material body dies while he takes the time to make a new body?)

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However, my understanding was that Sin was made from the Final Aeon, not random souls. Everytime a summoner's companion sacrificed themselves to become the Final Aeon, Yu Yevon embodies them and as the two of them gather strength, the former Final Aeon becomes the new Sin (hence why Jecht is Sin during FFX - he was Braska's Final Aeon.) That's why all the Aeon's had to be destroyed at the end, to prevent Yu Yevon from embodying them and beoming the new Sin. Then, with no where left to go, the party was able to defeat Yevon himself.

Also, I think Fayth is just the name of an unresting soul, not just someone killed by Sin. For instance, Seymour's mother sacrificed herself to become Anima, and she is considered a Fayth.

Anyway, I find it ironic that the people of Spira worshipped Yevon as a god, and believed Sin was their punishment for using machina, when it was really the sins of Yevon which caused such destruction.

I didn't intend for it to seem like 'random souls', but people that yevon had lured to begin the aeon process. Like I said, I think they add up overtime (a little piece of all the previous fayth that had become Sin, while the largest piece of Sin is the latest fayth), which would give them a connection with zanarkand..

Or perhaps it's just Yevon reliving old times.

However, I think it's lulu tells us that fayth are specifically the people who give up their still living souls to become encased in stone [to become the aeons]

What's more ironic about yevon-worship is that all the maesters in Spira (well the dead ones anyways(well, mika I guess)) knew about it, but continued the practice so they could keep their high status.

Oh, okay - that clears it up a bit. I've always found it confusing as to exactly what happened to the fayth.

As for the preists of Yevon, I agree with you - I've always thought that one of the most interesting aspects of FFX was that it made a social commentary on the ease by which organized relgions can become extreamely corrupt.

I got some doubts (I finished the game december 24 12:00 Pm what a lonely man), I know they get off topic, but I prefered this than created a new one. so , here I go.
- When I saw the first FMV with Sauron holding his ( I don´t know , Sake´s holder ?)pointing at sin, I thought trough all the game that sauron was the summoner of sin ( I swear he was the bad guy !), now I know that´s not true , so, Why is sauron doing that ?, Can auron speak to Sin like he did ?, why he don´t do that again in the game ?.

- A lot of confussion about zanarkand, It´s was detroyed in the war against bevelle or was destroyed by sin ?, The sin that destroy Tidu´s Zanarkand at the beginning is Jecht, so, The faith let him in their dream ? .

- If sin posess a new aeon but don´t die , why is there that 10 years period calm?, sin was created by Yunalesca father (Yevon what a mess!), so, why he atack zanarkand when he is from there, I sin created just for Yevon glory ( like i create the sickness and then I create the only cure, so everybody adore me forever ), why was sin created ???!?!?!?!??!. Is kinda confusning, yevon is from zanarkand, zanarkand is atacked by sin, the faith from zarankand dream another zanarkand , that zanarkand is atacked by sin, The atack of sin should be at bevelle !

- Auron been dead can ride Sin , but what about the fight over sin ?, what about the toxin ?. We now how tidus get to spira, but how Jecht get to spira and why ?, why him ?.

- in the first scene with the fayth he says something to tidus like "no, not today", and he acts like he knows who is him (weird), what is that ?.

- what the heck is doing Seymour inside of Sin ?,. how he did get in , and why he is the chosen one to be into sin if Jecht was already inside ?. Who was inside the sin that Braska killed ?

I know there are a lot of stupid questions but, this forums are here for that ,right ?

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Originally Posted by Wilder

When I saw the first FMV with Sauron holding his ( I don´t know , Sake´s holder ?)pointing at sin, I thought trough all the game that sauron was the summoner of sin ( I swear he was the bad guy !), now I know that´s not true , so, Why is sauron doing that ?, Can auron speak to Sin like he did ?, why he don´t do that again in the game ?.

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No, Auron wasn't pointing his Sake jug at Sin, he was drinking it. He did that because he knew what going to happen, he was sent there by Sin to bring Tidus to Spira. So he decided to carelessly drink some Sake in order to seem badass to all the fanboys. He doesn't do it anymore within the game, because he simply doesn't need to. He's in Spira, Tidus is in Spira... Why would he ride Sin again?

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Originally Posted by Wilder

- A lot of confussion about zanarkand, It´s was detroyed in the war against bevelle or was destroyed by sin ?, The sin that destroy Tidu´s Zanarkand at the beginning is Jecht, so, The faith let him in their dream ? .

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Spira's Zanarkand was destroyed by both the war, and by Sin. Yevon summoned it during the war, which sent Zanarkand into oblivion. And yes, the fayth did let Sin in their dream because it was their intent to pull Tidus out.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

If sin posess a new aeon but don´t die , why is there that 10 years period calm?, sin was created by Yunalesca father (Yevon what a mess!), so, why he atack zanarkand when he is from there, I sin created just for Yevon glory ( like i create the sickness and then I create the only cure, so everybody adore me forever ), why was sin created ???!?!?!?!??!. Is kinda confusning, yevon is from zanarkand, zanarkand is atacked by sin, the faith from zarankand dream another zanarkand , that zanarkand is atacked by sin, The atack of sin should be at bevelle !

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Okay, Sin was created by Yevon to destroy the Bevelle army, who was in Zanarkand at the time... Therefore Zanarkand was destroyed as well. Also, Yevon didn't create the religion... Bevelle did. In order to cover up the mess that they caused, they made Yevon a religious icon so that people would forget about the war and "atone" for their sins. Oh and the Calms don't necessarily last for ten years... Just a random period of time until the next Sin is reborn.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

- Auron been dead can ride Sin , but what about the fight over sin ?, what about the toxin ?. We now how tidus get to spira, but how Jecht get to spira and why ?, why him ?.

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The toxin is a hoax, there's no such thing. As for Jecht getting to Spira, this isn't mentioned... But I believe the fayth sent him there for the same reason they sent Tidus later on.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

- in the first scene with the fayth he says something to tidus like "no, not today", and he acts like he knows who is him (weird), what is that ?.

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Well he doesn't really know who he is exactly, but he's seen him around before. So he's able to act calm around him. Tidus didn't know what he meant by "No, not today" but he agreed anyway because he was pressed for time.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

- what the heck is doing Seymour inside of Sin ?,. how he did get in , and why he is the chosen one to be into sin if Jecht was already inside ?. Who was inside the sin that Braska killed ?

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Seymour wasn't chosen to be inside of Sin. He went inside voluntarily because he wanted to control Sin. How he got there before you guys did, I have no idea. He probably met up with Sin somewhere else, being dead and all it must've been easy. And the previous final Aeon was inside the Sin which Braska defeated. Just like Jecht was to the current Sin.

What I find interesting is how Auron's jug of sake has a never ending supplie of sake. I wish I had one that did that.

thanks a lot ijimonji, but your answers make me think about a couple more questions.

- Why Sin keeps atacking towns, he was summoned to destroy bebelle but it keeps damaging everyone.is sin an aeon , or a yevon armor to live forever ?, what are the reason of yeavon to keep killing ?
- Why bevelle created that Yeavon teachng things like the "fobidden machina ", they were repent to destroy zanarkand , why use the name of the enemy yevon ?, I think is pretty funny to see how everyone is saying all the way to zanrkand "yevon this, yevon that" and when they get to yunalesca and she says "yu Yevon" they say, Who is that one ? Who is yu yevon ?.
- what is the main porpuse of faith dreaming a new zanarkand.

what a big story for a game, everytime I finish a FF it´s the same glorious thing.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

Why Sin keeps atacking towns, he was summoned to destroy bebelle but it keeps damaging everyone.is sin an aeon , or a yevon armor to live forever ?, what are the reason of yeavon to keep killing ?

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Sin was created to destroy. That's it's sole purpose. It doesn't matter what, but it needs to destroy in order for Spira's spiral of death to continue forever.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

Why bevelle created that Yeavon teachng things like the "fobidden machina ", they were repent to destroy zanarkand , why use the name of the enemy yevon ?, I think is pretty funny to see how everyone is saying all the way to zanrkand "yevon this, yevon that" and when they get to yunalesca and she says "yu Yevon" they say, Who is that one ? Who is yu yevon ?.

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They use Yevon's name, because Bevelle is afraid of Yevon. As long as they continue to worship him, they think that they'll be safe from another attack. I'm sure they realize they're contradicting themselves.

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Originally Posted by Wilder

- what is the main porpuse of faith dreaming a new zanarkand.

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Because Zanarkand was destroyed and that was Yevon's homeland, he forced the fayth to dream up a new Zanarkand to keep it in a perfect state forever. Then the fayth rebels and sends Tidus to destroy Sin because they're tired of dreaming.

I say auron was just hailing sin, since he knew it was jecht.

"*holds up his jug*

wassup old buddy? 10-4"

although, the first time I thought he was controlling Sin too. "hey, this must be the dark wizard of teh game!"

"dangit, he's not, but man he's good with a sword"

clever...

I always thought Tidus was sent to Spira to destroy Sin for ever, so Sin would neven come back again.

Somewhat... Jecht wanted Tidus to defeat him, but he was brought to Spira by Auron so he could learn the truth for himself.