Don't Shoot the Messenger (Minor Spoilers)

I have a theory about the meaning of the of Ultimecia's clock puzzle: 'In the Garden Sleeps a Messenger'.

I think it's referring to the GF Diablos.

Here's why:

1) As I suggested in my 'Garden of Eden' thread, I think that the GF Eden is an organic version of a Garden. Hence she (and I think it's quite clear that Eden is female) is the garden of Eden.

2) Diablos' attack is called 'Dark Messenger'.

3) The Devil tempted Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden in the form of a serpent. Diablos is certainly demonic.

So I think the puzzle is an allegory about to the fall of man through temptation. It would certainly fit in Ultimecia's castle.

Or am I thinking about this too much? :greenie:

I think your right but like some people say that Rinhoa is ultimicia in the future turned evil so it may also be refering to this just a guess

That sounds about right to me. Keep thinking, maybe you can solve the R=U thoery:D

yeah, that's good I guess. I thought diablo's move was called gravijah or something. I think the dark messenger refers to the boss that sleeps within the potrait.

Gravija was the magic that he uses when you fight him in the magic lamp, but his attack is DARK MESSENGER
(thunder roars, lightning crashed, darkness swallows the thread, a ball of gravity magic sweeps down upon everyone, symbols appearing. After the brief qualms pass, we look up to see Diablos disappearing in a flurry of bats)

The painting boss is Trauma (and the mini-me Dromas) with Pulse Cannon attacks. They are considered partially living weapons of future but there's not much information on them beyond that.

I can see how that could apply to a more literal interpretation, but I don't see how the Garden part fits in.

[Edit] Oh wait, the painting itself could be considered the Garden Trauma is sleeping in.

Still, I like the allegory better. :)

i think that's a badass theory. and you can probly never think too much into FF affairs. you're right on the spot or not even far enough if anything. *deleted*

EDIT: Watch the racial slurs please. -Murder

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Originally Posted by Matt90

I think your right but like some people say that Rinhoa is ultimicia in the future turned evil so it may also be refering to this just a guess

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Because they look alike? They don't even sound the same...although I admit Ultimicia's powers where passed to Edea, who in turn gave them to Rinoa, I doubt Rinoa is Ultimicia...

Feel free to argue with me, just try to use more than two Brain cells to do it.

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Because they look alike? They don't even sound the same...although I admit Ultimicia's powers where passed to Edea, who in turn gave them to Rinoa, I doubt Rinoa is Ultimicia...

Feel free to argue with me, just try to use more than two Brain cells to do it.

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The two don't look alike. I agree woth Xxiawakin about it nor being ri-ri. the two have/had the same powers, but so did edea, so is ri-ri edea too?(sarcasm) All in all, I don't think that pale ri-ri is ultimecia. Hey, Xxiawakin, where'd you hear them talk?

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Originally Posted by Yazoo'squeen

Hey, Xxiawakin, where'd you hear them talk?

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It's an example of text, in her Basic form, Ultimicia has a Russian accent, hence "Kurse all SeeDs."

Where as Rinoa can speak proper English.

nice. I hadn't really noticed that. I knew that she must have talked different and at first, I thought that it was a glitch or something. Hey, thanks. I hadn't either noticed or cared. Well, R+u= a bunch of bologna in my book

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Originally Posted by Yazoo'squeen

Well, R+u= a bunch of bologna in my book

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Agreed.

Hey.. people change... R=U assumes Rinia lost her memory, so it's really not that much fo an assumption to assume she can have a 'K' instead of a C. And I gave my reasons for my support of R=U before. Everything that is in FF VIII was put inthere for a reason, and when someone in Rinoa's position says 'I wish time would stand still' in a game where the villain wants to compress time, AND there's a lot of talk about 'sorceresses can go bad without a Knight', plus the other stuff... I have the feeling SS wants to tell us something.

But, back to the subject, I would think the painting could indeed refer to Diablus, but it could also be Rinoa. The Greek word for Messenger is Angellos (as Angels are supposed to be God's Messenger) Hence Diablos IS a Dark Messenger, a Dark/Fallen Angel, thus a devil. Rinoa also has angel wings though, and at a certain time, she sleeps in Garden as well.

Does it mean anything else? Not as far as I can see. Don't think it has anything to do with the R=U theory myself.

nice ideas, i hadn't realy thouhgt about that, i'd got a feeling it might be squall but i cant realy see him as a messenger.....but if i read into it more (too much) i could go as far as to say that as messenger in greek is angellos-angel (thanks Rand Al'Thor) i could say that squall is an angel because he rescues rinoa, protects her etc. but hey thats just reading too much into it!

on the R=U theory has any one contacted square to ask about it?

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Originally Posted by Rand Al'Tor

Hey.. people change... R=U assumes Rinia lost her memory, so it's really not that much fo an assumption to assume she can have a 'K' instead of a C. And I gave my reasons for my support of R=U before. Everything that is in FF VIII was put inthere for a reason, and when someone in Rinoa's position says 'I wish time would stand still' in a game where the villain wants to compress time, AND there's a lot of talk about 'sorceresses can go bad without a Knight', plus the other stuff... I have the feeling SS wants to tell us something.

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k rinoa wants time to stand still to be with squall. dont interpret that wrong. its well written to mean that.

the R=U idea stems from misinterpretin the words and twisting them.

its not true.
[Major Spoiler]
In all seriousness you dont even know if squall ever meets rinoa in the end. At the end of FF, squalls meets himself and has returned before the time he wants but then in the FMV everything is normal and everyone has reunited, What happened with squall?

and thats just bs but its stuff like that that drive the R=U theory

http://img111.exs.cx/img111/5194/3e-rinimecia.gif
http://img87.exs.cx/img87/4091/e9-rinoa.jpghttp://img87.exs.cx/img87/4471/3c-ultimecia.jpg

It's the eyes...

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Originally Posted by Coda

k rinoa wants time to stand still to be with squall. dont interpret that wrong. its well written to mean that.

the R=U idea stems from misinterpretin the words and twisting them.

its not true.

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I'm afraid you're gonna have to do a BIT more then repeat that it's not true t make an argument. Yes, at that time Rinoa herself just wants to have time stand still to bewithS quall etc. etc. But the fact that Square chsoe to have Rinoa let her use THAT way to stress her love for Squall, and let her have STRESS the 'stop time' thingie in a game like this... is, IMHO, NOT accidential.

[Major Spoiler]
In all seriousness you dont even know if squall ever meets rinoa in the end. At the end of FF, squalls meets himself and has returned before the time he wants but then in the FMV everything is normal and everyone has reunited, What happened with squall?

and thats just bs but its stuff like that that drive the R=U theory[/QUOTE]

Actually, if you COMPLETELY watch the ending, including all the credits you see Squall.

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[Major Spoiler]
In all seriousness you dont even know if squall ever meets rinoa in the end. At the end of FF, squalls meets himself and has returned before the time he wants but then in the FMV everything is normal and everyone has reunited, What happened with squall?

and thats just bs but its stuff like that that drive the R=U theory

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[/QUOTE]

At the end you see ri-ri with Squall

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It's the eyes...

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I don't see it. Ri-ri's eyes are brown, ind of dsark brown actually and ulti's are what color is that? green? Yellow? Green-yellow? Sure, when you match the faces up they're alomost in sync with each other, but that's almost. Ulti's face is a bit wider up near the top.

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Originally Posted by Yazoo'squeen

Ri-ri's eyes are brown, ind of dsark brown actually and ulti's are what color is that? green? Yellow? Green-yellow? Sure, when you match the faces up they're alomost in sync with each other, but that's almost. Ulti's face is a bit wider up near the top.

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That's exactly my point.

Nice, we have the same points. Now, any objections? :D Well, I think someone should get in contact with Square and ask them. If I could, I would but...

Ohh no, not this again, the last R=U thread had 11 pages :eek:

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Originally Posted by ChaosCalibur

Ohh no, not this again, the last R=U thread had 11 pages :eek:

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It wasn't my intention to start a R=U thread, since there's already plenty of them. I suppose discussing Ultimecia inevitably begs the question about her origins and R=U is a major theory that addresses that. Since she's from the future, her past could be in the game's present.

I'm more interested in her state of mind, her motivations (which I feel the game does not adequately explain). From what I see of her taste in decorating and allies, a major theme with her seems to be corruption. So it makes sense to me that she would like allegorical art that reflects the downfall of man. Diablos would strike me as her kind of GF.