"Ultimate Magic"?

According to the FFII story, Ultima is supposedly the ultimate magic. But is that really so? I gave Ultima to Maria and it is at level 10. Frionel has level 9 Holy, and Guy has level 7 Flare. Both Holy AND Flare have been consistantly doing more damage to the enemies than Ultima is, despite being at lower levels. Ultima generally does damage around the 200 range, while Holy and Flare do damage in the 400 range. Maria even has higher magic power than Frionel and Guy.

So why is Ultima being so weak? Am I doing something wrong?

When you give Ultima to the person who was the most White Magic, it will do more damage. It depends on stats namely. I don't remember exactly what it was.

Supposedly, Ultima's strength is dependent upon all of the stats of the person casting it. I've never had it be anything but my strongest spell, though.

I see. That makes since then, I'm sure Maria's other stats are much lower than Frionel's and Guy's. Dang it. I just wish I knew this before I gave Maria Ultima.

"Magic Power" depends on what kinda spell it is. Black Magic is affected by Intelligence while White Magic is affected by Spirit. If what Kawaii Ryukishi says is true (and it very well might be, I've never personally looked at the code) then it's probably a moot point. For my team it was just about as strong as Holy and Flare though.

Actually, I've always thought that Meteo, the spell that (SPOILER)the emperor casts in the end-battle would be considered "the ultimate spell".

Ultima is unique in that it uses it's own entirely different damage property to every other in the game. Ergo I would assume that the whole "based-on-all-stats" theory might be feasible.

Uhhhhhhhhh........... The Nintendo Power guide says it's white magic..... :confused:

In FFII, it is. So what? Aero started out as white magic, too, in FFIII.

I gave my Ultima to Frionel, at it is at level 13 where as Maria's Holy is at level 11. Ultima is consistantly weaker for me as well.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

In FFII, it is. So what? Aero started out as white magic, too, in FFIII.

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Just wanted to verify in case they got it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time Nintendo Power printed erroneous information about a Final Fantasy....

On a similar note.... They seem to think Curse is white magic, but casting it seems to raise my intelligence... I'd like to declare shennanigans.

I'm pretty sure ultima is white magic. When I was leveling it up, my characters spirit increased. I've never really used it though, seeing as Fire, Flare and Holy all did consistently more damage.(Overrated, much?)

For the sake of technicality, Ultima IS white magic. The way in which it's damage is calculated, however, is different. Rather than simply using your character's Spirit stat it (supposedly) uses all of your stats. If this includes things like vitality/magic or hp/mp I don't know. I'll go test it now and let you all know in about, say, twenty minutes...

Results : This is so whacked out stuff!

Basically the damage of Ultima is highly erratic. Even when I put Fry's stats to 1 each the damage fluctuated greatly from 30-80 odd. Maxed Soul, the damage didnt seem to increase. Set Soul back to 1, Int to 99, same thing. Maxed out all other stats (Str/Agi/Magic/Vit), still not much improvement. Maxed out all stats, still nothing noticeable. Maxed out MP/HP, Evd and Mag Evd, and there was a slight increase in damage, but only by about 10-20 points. This was all done with Level 16 Ultima "multi-targetted". Basically I haven't the faintest idea what sort of damage Ultima is, nor what it's damage is increased by (apparently nothing). Considering how late you get this spell and how long it would take to max it does pitiful damage no matter what.

I know that in my game, with Frioniel with maxed out stats and Level 16 spells in all slots, Ultima did more damage than anything else in the game. So, if the stats have nothing to do with it, then maybe the magic levels do.

I have looked and I found something in a walktrough:

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NOTE: Ultima is a magic that is based on the casters magic arsenal. Ultima
will not do a great amount of damage unless it is leveled high and all the
other magic in the caster's arsenal are leveled high. So if you have Ultima to
level 16 and you have a full screen of magic all leveled to 16, then Ultima
will be doing a couple thousand damage per round or better (spirit is also a
factor). I suggest you level up someone's magic when you level up toad, if you
haven't begun that fiasco yet.

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So, it's probarly, so that how higher your spell-level is, the higher Ultima strikes. I think I need to go and level up my magic. But it's called Ultimate Magic. But (SPOILER)it doesn't even kill the Emperor in one kill

Well, I tried out the whole magic level theory and...nothing, still the same low damage. Even when I maxed out everything (and I mean everything, HP and MP, Magic levels + experience, stats, weapon levels) and even de-equipped everything, it still did paltry damage. I'm beginning to think that there's some unknown value going on here, most likely something along the lines of no. of enemies killed, no of times magic used in battle etc. This might explain why Ryu seemed to get high damage Ultima through spell levels. It wasn't the spell levels that were the factor but the amount of times he used magic.

I thought about that and used codes to instantly have every spell shoot up from Level 1 to Level 16 in a single fight. Ultima still worked wonders.

Therein might lie the difference. I was using an editor to affect my character's stats at the very start of the game. So I had all the level 16 spells before I even began. Was this the NES version you tested this in, as that's what I've been using so far.

Wait, that could be it. I remember that the changed the level-up stuff in Dawn of Souls. I took that NOTE directly from a walktrough of Dawn of Souls. I will dive into the archives to see if I can find anything about the other versions.

We have been confused all this time! You know that Ultima is supposed to be the emperor's worst damn nightmare... And of course it is, we understood everything wrong!! Listen, Ultima IS supposed to be the greatest dung in the entire universe! That's why it is! When you are told that it is the emperor's doom, it doesn't mean that you have to use it against it. Of course not, it is pretty useless! PEOPLE WAS SUPPOOSED TO TRICK HIM AND GIVE THE TOME TO THE EMPEROR AS A GIFT SO HE WOULD THINK THAT IT WAS COOL (JUST AS ALL OF US THOUGHT). Later, he was suppoosed to to use it against the world and, right, nothing significant would happen. That is when he gets extremely frustrated (as I am when I see my level 13 Ultima do nothing) and commit suicide by jumping from his castle into the storm (or letting himself drop down from his throne in heaven to his throne in hell). Stop worrying about making it work, it is not supposed to work. :cry:

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We have been confused all this time! You know that Ultima is supposed to be the emperor's worst damn nightmare... And of course it is, we understood everything wrong!! Listen, Ultima IS supposed to be the greatest dung in the entire universe! That's why it is! When you are told that it is the emperor's doom, it doesn't mean that you have to use it against it. Of course not, it is pretty useless! PEOPLE WAS SUPPOOSED TO TRICK HIM AND GIVE THE TOME TO THE EMPEROR AS A GIFT SO HE WOULD THINK THAT IT WAS COOL (JUST AS ALL OF US THOUGHT). Later, he was suppoosed to to use it against the world and, right, nothing significant would happen. That is when he gets extremely frustrated (as I am when I see my level 13 Ultima do nothing) and commit suicide by jumping from his castle into the storm (or letting himself drop down from his throne in heaven to his throne in hell). Stop worrying about making it work, it is not supposed to work.

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Well, it's the best theory I've heard. :tongue: Too bad it worked on the wrong people. :mad:

There is clearly a lot of confusion about Ultima. It is a white magic spell, but the only significance of that is that it can raise your Spirit (and sometimes lower the corresponding stat) when it is cast frequently. As to how its damage is calculated, no one seems to really be sure.

PHWOARRRRRR!!!!!!

Weird discovery! After attempting to get Leon the bumbling oaf to use the spell (and then thinking better of it and making him sword man) in DoS I found the spell as unimpressive as all yous guys. Then I gave it to Minwu in Soul of Rebirth, and it DID MORE DAMAGE THAN FLARE WHILE AT A LOWER LEVEL!!!!!!!!

Something is DEFINITELY unusual about this spell...

I gave ultima to Firion. Is it possible to give it to Ricard to use it in SoR? I wanna try that when I start a new file. I gave Ricard the Flare that I found so he could use it in SoR. I heard there was a secret shop that sold Flares in, I think Jade Passage? Where is it, and is it accesible in the main story?

(SPOILER)There's a man under the waterfall in the jade passage. He's on the lowest level up against the wall. Just walk behind the waterfall and you'll bump into him. He does sell Flare and Holy, but not Ultima. You don't have to do anything special to get him to appear or anything, he's just hidden behind the waterfall.

In SoR you can find him in the exact same place. I think he might not sell Holy this time around though.

thanks. Hey, will a Lv. 16 ultima do as much as it would if your spells were maxed out if it was the only spell you have? Like, if you had the person you gave it to forget all of his/her other magics?

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Something is DEFINITELY unusual about this spell...

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Yeah, no kidding.It did decent damage when I gave it to Minwu on SoR on my game, but still was a poor second to Holy.

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Originally Posted by DJZen

(SPOILER)There's a man under the waterfall in the jade passage. He's on the lowest level up against the wall. Just walk behind the waterfall and you'll bump into him. He does sell Flare and Holy, but not Ultima. You don't have to do anything special to get him to appear or anything, he's just hidden behind the waterfall.

In SoR you can find him in the exact same place. I think he might not sell Holy this time around though.

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How do you know it's a man? Maybe it's a beaver (like the ones seen before)? Or one of those masked fellows?

Way to stay on topic, buddy.

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Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara

Yeah, no kidding.It did decent damage when I gave it to Minwu on SoR on my game, but still was a poor second to Holy.

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In my game it did more damage than flare, which means it did WAY more than holy... I have no idea what could account for that, I barely levelled up any of Minwu's spells, and the ones I did were at level 6 or lower (except cure which was at level 8, but that's it). Even through all that, it STILL did more damage at level 4 than flare did at level 6.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!

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In my game it did more damage than flare, which means it did WAY more than holy...

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In my game, with Minwu with Holy, and Scott with Flare, Holy did slightly more damage. (same levels)

There's a lot of things that factor into damage, but in the original game, flare's effectiveness rating was higher (fire, blizzard, thunder & poison were at 5, holy was at 10 and flare was at 15 I think). Interestingly enough, flare and holy both do the same element damage (non-elemental).

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

In FFII, it is. So what? Aero started out as white magic, too, in FFIII.

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Wasn´t there an Aero in FF2 as well? And then it belongs to black magic.

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Originally Posted by Peter_18

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

In FFII, it is. So what? Aero started out as white magic, too, in FFIII.

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Wasn´t there an Aero in FF2 as well? And then it belongs to black magic.

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That was more the result of a poor translation than anything else. "Aero" in FFII was actually Poison-elemental.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

In FFII, it is. So what? Aero started out as white magic, too, in FFIII.

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Actually, it started out in FF2, although for some reason it did poison damage. I've always found that wierd. I like wind better than poison anyday

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Originally Posted by Andreil Darkstorn

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

In FFII, it is. So what? Aero started out as white magic, too, in FFIII.

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Actually, it started out in FF2, although for some reason it did poison damage. I've always found that wierd. I like wind better than poison anyday

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Well, it seems it was Poison magic, not Aero.
You could name Fire something like Opal Bolt or Hyper Ultima and it´d still be Fire.
Effects decide the spell type, not necessarily the names, since they could be results of poor translations, as mentioned earlier.

Ultima- A spell that at birth of the cartridge is told to do something different every time. Trying to find the correct formula will cause insanity.

I think this is the best definition for the formula of Ultima- Enjoy

Plus who cares how much damage it does to the emporer if you have bllod sword.

Although the fact that u do about 5 dungeons for the stupid thing when u can buy a spell that is sometimes better? Please explain why we couldn't just skip the ultima dungeons and get on with our lives? I'd make up for all the misssed training.

'cause Stone Cold said so

in my SoR game i gave ultima to minwu because he had the highest spirit. although scott had more intelligence than minwu had spirit and his flare was on a higher level than minwus ultima but ultima still did more damage. i think its mainly based on spirit.

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in my SoR game i gave ultima to minwu because he had the highest spirit. although scott had more intelligence than minwu had spirit and his flare was on a higher level than minwus ultima but ultima still did more damage. i think its mainly based on spirit.

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It is based on weapon/spell levels. Since Minwu has more spells than Scott, he tends to do more Ultima damage. Spirit/Intelligence have nothing to do with it.

Unfortunately, the world may never know how damage is figured out in the FC version. Also, I too experienced a great amount of damage from Ultima when I first got it in SoR. However, it never really did more damage as I levelled it up, and Scott's Flare soon became much more powerful.