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I know they are great tanks, one of the best, but can they be used for more? I know if you take a thief subjob they can dodge almost anything, and at lvl 30 they get sneak attack wich is really good. Yet the question remains are they used for more than a simple tank? The loss of Provoke is a great deal if they are only used as tanks, and seems not worth it, but if they are used for attack bursts like thf is and pullers then they could be really good with thf sub. So what do ya think? :confused:
Ninja is an extremely versatile class, but you'll never get an invite if you sub anything other than WAR. Other players mean you're not allowed to explore that versatility, unless you like almost dying for 5 exp / fight, in which case you can solo. I only have 15,000 exp to my next level, 5 exp / fight with 20 minute downtimes shouldn't hurt too bad.
heh thought as much >< sigh* guess i can lvl thf as sub for travling and farming at least ^^
If you main job is ninja - yes, you're expected to tank ( and WAR is a must sub for it). They're really not good for anything else.
Ninja however, is a lovely subjob. I couldnt imagine my ranger without NIN sub. Also War/Nin are very good damage dealers with dual axes.
NIN CAN be good at other stuff, NIN/RNG using Guns with high marksmanship can lvl NIN up to around Yhoator and no more than lvl 30-ish without tanking. NIN/BLM with all elemental staves and ALOT OF GIL can use ninjutsu to attack. However NIN/BLM is far from practical, while NIN/RNG up to around 30-ish is somewhat acceptable except for the high cost in ammo and skill up.
Eh i cant find the post i did on this on my LS forum but NIN/WAR tanking with full evasion gear is more typical and more effective of a NIN. Before NIN was known to tank, NIN were gimp and were not used for anything(not invited). But with tanking availible you can easily be invited now. NIN would be a good DD with shurikens but the high cost of them and the factor of no Throwing WS makes it a waste to use most of the time(esepcially without capped Throwing, throwing away shurikens and missing will cost you dearly).
NIN.RNG make great pullers mainly because of ichi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikztsu
However a NIN a specialty job in pulling does not count =/ No one invites you cuz you can pull most of the time cuz anyone can do it.
yeah but
I say from 1-30 a ninja has no business tankings mainly because they lose HP a lot faster than a WAR or a PLD.I dont know about 30 and up.Plus I've never seen a ninja tanking in my entire life.
If you mean pre Ni ninjutsu and you have not seen a NIN tank ever, then you really have no right to say that they cant tank with no Ni spells. Ichi only NINs can still tank, and pretty reliably, usually you invite another WAR or MNK so they can help tag team tank the mob so you give the NIN an extra 6 secs or so to cast it. It goes faster than most other tanks as well especially with double NINs Utsuing, and even WAR/NIN with a NIN. Their shadows absorb alot of attacks therefore rendering the NIN invulnerable. With Slow Paralyze and Blind, there is more room for the NIN to manuver about(and with Haste/Elegy later, that is even more so).
In case you didnt know, NINs use Utsusemi to tank, it gives them Copy Images which absorb one attack. Some moves go through Utsu like a bomb toss but leaves shadows untouched, but some moves like Aerial Wheel removes all shadows yet leave the NIN untouched. The NIN uses Provoke, Elemental/Enfeeble Ninjutsu in conjunction with Utsusemi to tank. Should the party be flawless in what its doing the NIN will lose 0 hp from any attack except those AoE exceptions. If they do foul up they have to take hits like a man until their shadows are back up. There is a Utsu spell at lvl 12 which has 3 shadows and long cast/recast, and one spell at 36ish i believe that has 1 sec cast time and a moderate recast and 4 shadows, with the right enfeebles and evasion equipment for a NIN the shadows can last a while. In case one of em dont work you have to juggle the spells, and remember that Ni(2) > Ichi(1), in case they cannot overwrite their other shadow should Ichi need to be casted.
I never said they couldnt tank.I just said 1-30 dont make for good tanks but have real good purposesPlus who would want to be a tnak anyway.Man I started out as WAR and it was a pain.Having to have our WHM goto sleep particular on me when i needed the cure the most.Then a WHM doing benediction on the PT and trying to get it off him or her.Then whe the WHM dies they get mad and
A.kick you the tank out
B.Say this PT stinks and leaves everyone marooned
C.realise its his or hers fault and we keep PTing.
but i bet a lvl 30 ninja can own at being a tank.
edit-do youneed tools to caste ninja spells?if so then thats why I probaly havent seen very many ninja's who attempt at tanking lol.
Who would want to tank? Me. Check my PLD, they are built for tanking normal IT monsters. *points a Leonine char in sig* i like what i do, and i might go NIN with my taru too. Tanking with a NIN is much more strategic than with a PLD however. Some people love to tank. Tell me one thing that NINs do that other people cant do better besides tanking.
First if the WHM fell asleep then that WHM sucks...and/or they should go. And second i dont know what server you are on..but it seems to suck quite honestly =/. And third if the WHM has to benediction then at low lvls he signed a death contract unless the PLD does Invincible or a RNG busts out EES. Thats just something in which the WHM should know came with the job. Tell your n00b NINs and WHMs to do things right and join another party, shouldnt be hard at lower lvls.
Every cast consumes tools, thats why n00b NINs are all about in the lower lvls, they stop appearing in the higher lvls because it would mean absolute death. A NIN that doesnt tank rarely can do much else the other party members cant. Every NIN carries multiple sets of tools(especially Utsusemi) at higher lvls, my lvl 60 NIN friend spends lots of time farming and working on his NIN and he is well respected by us for having the best gear and all the tools and costs figured out. Prolly over 3 million gil he spent on his NIN (not surprising).
And BTW a lvl 30 NIN compared to a lvl 12 NIN (when they learn Utusemi Ichi) has nothing different in terms of tanking besides a few elemental Ninjutsu which wont make an extreme ammount of difference...so i dont see why you keep saying at lvl 30 NINs dont suck at tanking when they are pretty much same from lvl 12-36 (where they get Utsusemi Ni).
I'm just saying tanking isnt a ninja's only role in a party and it isn't and if oyu wanna be so narrow-minded well go ahead and discourage a bunch of people who actually considered getting this game.
I am far from narrow minded(and i will leave the flame right there >_>). If people want to be discouraged thats up to them, eventually you will see that i am just saying what a NIN does.
The most optimal job that NINs will do is tanking, you dont invite a PLD to damage deal as you wont invite a WHM to nuke. Having a defined role is what makes jobs appealing, if you arent defined, then you are RDM pre-dispel and refresh patch(yes RDMs didnt start out the game with these spells, it was added in later when people think RDMs are gimp), unwanted and subpar. NINs can do different things, but not without shelling out obsence ammounts of gil(as if they werent doing that already).
You still havent told me what a NIN can do compared to other jobs that are defining enough to make a NIN worth inviting if they arent tanking.
He is far from being narrow-minded. When someone invites a NIN into their party, their first thought would be either tank, back up tank or trick partner. They don't deal the greatest amount of damage, there's usualy a THF, RNG or WAR around to pull, they don't heal and they don't nuke. They have a few tools for enfeebling (I think enfeebling).Quote:
Originally Posted by lordblazer
Sure they COULD do other things apart from tanking, but the matter of the fact is that people don't expect them to. I've played NIN for a great deal of levels (til level 30) - not once was I asked to pull, heal, nuke or enfeeble. My main role was to tank, and that was that. After level 37 (when you get Utsusemi: Ni), that's when tanking becomes even more strict for a NIN because that's where they shine.
I think what Lionx is saying, is that there are other jobs that are meant to do better things than what a NIN can do, yet a NIN is one of the best tanks, so that's what they're used for.
"edit-do youneed tools to caste ninja spells?if so then thats why I probaly havent seen very many ninja's who attempt at tanking lol."
What do you mean by this? A lot of, nearly all, ninja's tank. Every single party I've had with one, they do. They have special tools to tank, they don't get any spells or anything else to do anything, just those tools. I can say that most ninja's will have the gil to spend on Sheihei (the blink powders) which are only around 6,000g a stack (99).
If you haven't seen a Ninja tank it's probably because they are way too lazy to get the scrolls and save up for the powders - they really shouldn't be playing the job, to be honest.
RDM/NIN = God
(SPOILER)I've been told they can solo shadow lord because his first form you go all out melee with 2 sword...second form when hes immune physical you chainspell your best spell, then last form you convert cure 4 and finish him off i think thats how it goes :confused:
this is what i'm going for, so far i'm a 28 rdm without ninja yet lol i got a long road infront of me :cry:
RDM/NIN is only used situationally with soloing or specific tanking, not much else in parties however.