I've heard a lot about the religious allusions and overtones of Xenogears...what do you guys think some of them were and what do you think of them?
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I've heard a lot about the religious allusions and overtones of Xenogears...what do you guys think some of them were and what do you think of them?
i dont see it. i cant find any religious undertones in the game whatsoever. dunno what ppl are talkin about.
Xenogears attacks God and the church. The plot basically is in lieu with killing God. The game makes multiple allusions to the bible (the first lines of text in the game are a direct passage), but the problem lies within the fact that the ideas from the Bible are twisted to appear evil. for example, when *spoilers so I won't say* a young boy's faith is shattered when he discovers the church he had devoted his life to turns out to be nothing more than a front for a hidden government to control the people. And late in the game you find yourself fighting seraphs and Deus. A young Fei is also seen covered in blood. While the fight for freedom from evil is there, much of the game content and message is offensive to Christians.
I'd say The Ethos represents the negative aspects of the Catholic Church, and the Nisan Sect its positive aspects. The Ethos controlled the economy, much like the papal states, whereas the Nisan Sect mostly just did good deeds, and harbored rebellions against Solaris.
All the religious references are just there to make the game seem "deep." They're entirely superficial and often nonsensical.
Most of them, yes. I thnk there's a few exceptions, but overall... yeah.
On the other hand, does anyone accuse Valkyrie Profile of the same thing? They're just both mythology to the Japanese.
I liked the Nisan/Ethos dichotomy, and just because you (SPOILER)Kill Deus, it doesn't mean you kill the true GOD, you just kill an entity that has been controlling all life. It doesn't mean there isn't a higher power in that world besides Deus, the issue is just never addressed.
If there's any entity to be equated with God in the Xenogears world, it's not Deus, it's the Wave Existence.
Aye, Deus would be more akin to a "false idol."
And most of the religious references in 'gears (and in 'saga) are pretty superficial, like 'Kishi said.
The thing about the Xenogears religious references being superficious...some, not all and you know it. I agree with the Nisan/Ethos Catholic sides. Ethos represents the corruption and the secular areas of that particular Christian branch and Nisan represents the true faith aspect. I am a Roman Catholic, but I do not align myself with this evil. It is just as corrupt as XG makes it out to be, and I consider myself a nondenomination Christian.
Actually, if anything, yes, the WE is more like Heaven though the one Fei speaks to is our God, the real God. YOU DO NOT "KILL" GOD. Whoever feels this way is obviously just out to bash different ideas.
"Take me as you will..."
When Fei Fong Wong speaks with God through the WE/Zoha, this statement makes it appeal to all religions (except ignorant aetheists, of course, who shouldn't be playing XG in the first place). I like this a lot.
Xenogears is actually a truely pro-Christian message at the end of the day. I know, for one, that it has enhanced my faith greatly and brought many an aetheist to Christianity. Take me as you will.
Yes, there are a lot of superficial references to Catholicism and Christianity in the items of the game. One forum had a popular topic about a Christian concerned about an item called "The Book of Everlasting Life" which, in its description, said that it was written by a fool or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomgaze
Hey, I'm an atheist (though not ignorant), does that mean I can't enjoy this game all of a sudden? FYI I'm quite into theology and the like, even if I don't believe in it. Can't one be fascinated in the actions of those he sees as blind or somesuch?
Ouch. It would be interesting to know why you stopped believing, just out of curiousity.
P.S.-(I know everyone probably thinks Im some kind of nuts Evangalist wacko who hates everything...but actually, Im quite openminded. I take back my bash-the-aetheists thing)
Religious debates belong in General Chat or Eyes on Each Other or World Events. If you want to start one, do it there.
Hmmm, I said I was done with the debating, it was just a little question about why he was what he was...I apologize, but w/e.
Back on topic, someone? Or should someone close it?
Fei was a reincarnation of Abel who was rather Adam like, and there was the obvious Cain kills Abel thing.
Isn't the phrase that Grahf says when he (SPOILER)gives new found power to gears come from the bible. Also, Babel tower is pretty obvious as to the Tower of Babel in the bible, Tower of Babel was made to get closer to god, same thing with the Babel Tower in Gears, and wasn't the origional tower of Babel struck by lighting and smashed?
Actually, Babylonian engineers could not build things level, so after it got so high, it fell over and killed a bunch of them. They left it at that.
The actual Babel Tower myth - the people of all the nations got together and tried to build a tower that could scale the heavens. God didn't like this, so he made all the people speak different languages so the couldn't cooperate properly.
Even though it's just a creation myth, it still speaks volumes about the world we know. Our national differences is the only thing keeping the people of this world from standing tall and shaking the heavens.
That being said, the Babel Tower in XG has nothing to do with the Babel Tower in Genesis, aside from the fact that they're both really tall towers with the same name.
Well weren't they both towers used so their builders can get closer to god?
No. The Xenogears tower was used for something entirely different. I'd tell you, but it's a major spoiler.
And no, the Bab-il Tower in FFIV doesn't share anything significant with the Babel Tower either.
Xg was heavy on the religious overtones and such. But i dont think It was bashing Christianity. To me, Xg showed the dangers of doing things in the name of God. The members of the Ethos blindly followed its leaders who would have them Killing Wells and other monsters because their leaders told them that was Gods will. Where as, the Nissan Sect only seem to ask their memebers that they have faith. Never really asking or expecting anything outta its memebers. I think XG was trying to convey one of those "man in the mirror" type moments. And seeing as how the world is today with all that stuff going on in the middle east, i think the point it was trying to make should be comming across strong.
Haha, "Nissan."
Zoom Zoom
Moving along, there are a lot of allusions but that is all they are and nothing more. The other thing it does in terms or religion are make points about them. As stated about the Ethos and Nisan. I don't think they represent 2 sides of the Catholic Church but 2 sides to religion in general. All religions can BECOME corrupt just as they can do the opposite.
I do rather like their one winged angels symbol.
I'll agree with the Ethos/Nisan thing. Though I don't think it was really trying to slap religion in the face, or offend believers, or give any kind of warning. Though it does make you think. The makers was merely inspired by real events. It's how inspiration works. If you're offended by anything religious in this game, it's time to take a long hard look at the history of your own religion. Though I do admit it's more aimed at christians, and probably one group in particular. But yeah. Babel Tower was more of an homage just to help top off the religious undertones. I found it all quite fascinating, very believable, and very inthralling. That, along with delving into certain characters' minds (especially in disk2) made the game supremely deep for me. I love a game where I can actually enjoy being smothered by the plot, which is amazing considering most of it's pretty hard to understand, especially on the first playthrough.
[VARIOUS SPOILERS OF DIFFERING DEGREES BELOW. DON'T READ THIS POST IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM.]
The Tower of Babel was given that name because of its in-game origins; it was one of the self-contained isolation pods the Eldridge was using to transport Deus, Kadomony, the Razeal tree, etc. So it still carries the same connotation of trying to reach God/heaven (The Eldridge in the latter case). Really, just the fact that Babel is part of the Eldridge is enough to justify the name.
Also, the religious allusions in Xenogears are (almost) all relevant, but you must look at in the context of the falsifying of God; the entire Xenogears 'testament' is a product of a falsified mythos. Miang Hawwa is called Miang Hawwa because she is, literally, Eve in the Xenogears world. Similarly, Elhaym is called Elhaym because she is, literally, a manifestation of divinity. The Deus system is called Yahweh because it functions as a literal holy trinity. Etc. It's all part of the mythos.
But the non-Christian references are somewhat less relevant, though still full of flavour ( but the Yggdrasil still holds the world together!).
ALSO SPOILERS!!
It's even more interesting if you look at the overall picture instead of the religous aspect of their current lives. True, all the humans were biological parts made to become the bigger piece of their God. To hide that the "church" was formed to give a false idea of hope. But, above that, this "God" was also made by real humans who most likely follow a religion like Christianity of their own. The name "Lost Jerusleum" being evidence that they do. Perhaps the real humans were Christians. When the Eldridge crashed and the Dues program began, Cain covered it up with a "mock Christianity" rivaling the one the real humans truly believed.
http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm :)
I think it partially denounced letting leaders of organized religion push their beliefs on you, but I don't think it was altogether anti-religion. I say this because at the part where Billy learns the truth, his father (I think) says to him that "God is in each and every one of us." (paraphrased). It's a way of saying that he doesn't need an organization to tell him that it exists, that it's of his free will. Think Dogma (movie).
Of course, that's not the only tie to religion; just pointing out the fact that it's not all against the idea.
To say that Xenogears was anti religion means you didn't fully understand Xenogears. (Not that I fully understand it in the least bit.)
Actually, I would say that Xenogears was anti-religion, but pro-faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocFrance
I think i can agree with that. Specially if you really listen to that story about the Two angels with one wing each. It was seemed like it was supposed to teach you about having faith in one another. also if you add that together with the comment billy's father made about finding god in yourself and others, it kinda leans towards having faith and not so much towards following blindly any religion. Now, if people take offense to that, take a look at billy when you first meet him. He was talked into doing the wrong things because he blindly followed his religion. Also, he was also very adamant that his religion was the right one over all others. Many people are like that in reality.
It's always possible that the religion itself is right but the people trying to teach it are wrong about their impressions on it.
MMkay.....Is Xenogears a great game? YES. Are there references towards current religions in the game? YES. Should it be taken seriously? NO. Should mormons be more color coordinated? YES. The moral of the story is--If you do not have an open mind about Xenogears, then do not play it. While the question of "Is this game christian-bashing?" goes on, others are enjoying a great game with a very in-depth storyline, memorable characters, and one of the best soundtracks I've heard. If they are so worried about it, then go out and buy "The Bible Game". It would be pretty funny to read a thread saying that game "pagan-bashes", or better yet, "The Bible Game" being the answer to the question--"What video game were you playing when you decided to kill 37 of your classmates?"
It's only a game Mr. Pope, sir.
I wholly agree with this statement.Quote:
All the religious references are just there to make the game seem "deep." They're entirely superficial and often nonsensical
I stopped playing almost halfway thoughy Xenogears because ultimately it seemed too ridiculous to me. The religious/faith/WHATEVER aspect to me just did not amuse me at all and I found the game went way overboard with its "deep" content. As for "Christian bashing" I do think that this "element" is present in quite a few notable rpg's and I think it's largely there to make people question or at least, acknowledge our present monotheistic religions with renewed scrutiny.
You may start a new thread on the topic if you wish, but this thread is too old to be revived.