The Direction that Square is taking these days...

Okay, it's like this:

In 1993, my brother Jason rented Final Fantasy II for the SNES, and we played/loved it. A month later, he bought Final Fantasy for the NES for me and my other brother, Joseph. The three of us played FF1 probably everyday until we beat it, and then Jason moved out, and Joe and I went on to buy and love every FF game ever made.

I remember being so excited about FF3 coming out for SNES. Back when no one really had heard of FF games, we were playing them and enjoying them.

And then when I heard they were releasing 7, I was a bit confused since the last one was 3, but once I cleared that up, I was equally as exicted. Our playstation came with a FF7 demo, and we went crazy until the game was finally released, I believe in May 1997.

But now... Now everyone plays these games. They're huge. And squaresoft hasn't made a really good one like 7 since 7. I'm glad that people are getting enjoyment out of the series and all, but now people buy FF:DoS and beat it and think that they are FF masters because of it. They've beaten the watered down extremely easy version of FF1 and they think they're just the greatest FF gamers around. Well, we (my brothers and I) beat FF1 back when it was on the NES and no one had even heard of it. And now the little franchise that we used to be able to fit into our pocket has grown up. There was a time when FF games were so challenging that only the intellectual gamers could handle them. There were people who played games like Madden '95, and then there were people who played games like Final Fantasy. But now, they've made them all so easy that any schmuck can play and beat them. FF games used to be like an exclusive club that only a few of us could join. But now, anyone can. Anyone can beat DoS. And they've taken our "club" away from us, and all we're left with is these useless memories of way back when, the time when only smart people could play the games.

Jeez, I'm rambling again. I get really worked up over this subject.

But I'm curious if anyone feels the same way as I do. I mean, this a FF board, so chances are, I'm not the only one here who has been playing these games since then.

Feion

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

But now... Now everyone plays these games. They're huge. And squaresoft hasn't made a really good one like 7 since 7. I'm glad that people are getting enjoyment out of the series and all, but now people buy FF:DoS and beat it and think that they are FF masters because of it. They've beaten the watered down extremely easy version of FF1 and they think they're just the greatest FF gamers around. Well, we (my brothers and I) beat FF1 back when it was on the NES and no one had even heard of it. And now the little franchise that we used to be able to fit into our pocket has grown up. There was a time when FF games were so challenging that only the intellectual gamers could handle them. There were people who played games like Madden '95, and then there were people who played games like Final Fantasy. But now, they've made them all so easy that any schmuck can play and beat them. FF games used to be like an exclusive club that only a few of us could join. But now, anyone can. Anyone can beat DoS. And they've taken our "club" away from us, and all we're left with is these useless memories of way back when, the time when only smart people could play the games. Feion

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i disagree that FF7 is the only great game that Square has made :) . FF7 may be a classic :eek: :D , but FF8 is my favorite :cool: . in my opinion, it has the best ending :p , and the story is completely understandable ;) , instead of leaving me with many unsolved mysteries after beating the game :p .

What exactly do you mean by "the direction" they are taking? I think it is a good thing that a game appeals to more than the nerdiest nerds. I'm sure S-E thinks so too. Not only does it mean more money to the company, but the stories will be experienced by more people. If the same amount of people played Final Fantasy today as in the early 90's, I don't think Square would be able to make enough money from them. Games are much more expensive to make today, so you have to appeal to a bigger crowd. And admit it, the original Final Fantasy's battle system sucks :p. You can't expect people to enjoy it when they're used to todays standard. It'd be like selling a car from 1920 and saying: "Hey, this was high tech stuff when it was new! You should still use it!" Some people would be fascinated by it ofcourse, but not many. That's why they had to fix the battle system in DoS.

There's still enough challenges in the FF games anyway. If a regular playthrough isn't enough, you could always do one of the insanely low level games. I think that gameplay-wise, the Final Fantasy games have just gotten better and better. FFX-2's one of the games with best gameplay in the series. In my opinion, it outweighs the less-than-decent story and horrible music. However, the later games' stories just haven't appealed that much to me, I just't can't seem to get as involved in them as before. Then again, maybe I'm just growing old. I'm still looking forwards to FFXII though, I think I will like that story.

Square may be going downhill to you, but it's going uphill for someone else. Basically for every one North American who dislikes Final Fantasy, five Japanese will think the opposite. I doubt Square really even gives a damn about what foreigners think anyway. They're making money in Japan, and still making strong money in North America and Europe. So complaining about this isn't going to change the way they make their games, and the fact that they're making billions of yen of this series.

Just as Mirage said, Square's focus is to appeal to all gamers. Not ignorant Old-Schoolers. More so to the newer generations, because that's how they're going to get all their money. As we get older our opinions are going to change about what we like, and some of us are stuck in the past. Well just so you know... it's futile to not accept change. Pointless.

So either tough it out and get used to it, or play a different series by a different company. It won’t matter to them whatever you do.

Man, I feel so young. I was just a little kid when FF first came out, haden't even heard of it untill I was about, I don't know 10 or so . . . Final Fantasy's one of the gratest things in the world, you can't tell me that it's off limits just because it is (or as you put it "was") grate. I mean, it's like saying that you can't go to China because your not Chineese :mad: stupid. Even if the story quality of FF games has deminished over the years (not that they have, with the exception of X-2 of course :D ) it doesn't matter!
Anyways I think Square is gonna' pick up the slack soon. They've got a bunch of stuff comming out and XII doesn't look to shabby :D So don't get so worked up over it, nothing's ever perfect. You've just got to deal with it! :love:

I miss the old ones. Squaresoft hasn't just lost their touch with difficulty, but they've almost totally lost their ability to make good stories too...
I mean, compared to the new FF's the old ones are gods.
I do like the better battle systems, yes, but the storyline can shift a game from playable to crap- so...

worse storyline+ better battle system= sad, sad strawberryman

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Originally Posted by Mirage

And admit it, the original Final Fantasy's battle system sucks :p.

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I can't admit that because then I'd be betraying my own opinion. I feel that the original FF battle system is way more challenging than these new ones where you can rapidly press "X" through every fight. At least you had to focus on what you were doing in every fight.

I don't expect everyone to like the older FFs, I just want everyone who only plays the new ones to acknowledge that they know very little about the series and that the veterans like myself are better at RPGs than they are because most of these people who are like "OMG FFX IS TEH BEST GAME!! AURON IS SO COOL!!", I want those people to understand that I am more intelligent than they, and that I am better at strategizes and comprehension than they are.

You see, Square has forgotten some of the key elements to a good game. There's more to it than excellent graphics. And I didn't say that FF7 was the only great one. I said that FF7 was the last great one. The following ones were okay, but will never hold up to the precent set by games like Final Fantasy VI. Square has learned that they can sell games on good graphics without putting effort into the story, gameplay and music. The older games, there was no technology for graphics, so the games were all about the story, gameplay and music. But Square doesn't focus on these anymore because graphics sell games nowadays.

Someone once said "I've beaten FF7 and FF10, so I know what this series is all about". A series with well over 10 entries in it, and 2 games are enough to reveal what the series is all about. And FF7 was probably the most unlike any others, so, while it is a good game, it's not a very good example of what FF is all about.

Don't get me wrong; I like FF9, FFX, and so forth, but they will never be as good as the old ones were.

Essentially, I'm just saying that it is irritating when someone makes a thread called "Top 5 Favorite FF characters" and someone responds with "1. AURON 2. Tidus 3. Yuna 4. Paine 5. Rikku" Am I the only one is bothered by this?

Feion

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I don't expect everyone to like the older FFs, I just want everyone who only plays the new ones to acknowledge that they know very little about the series and that the veterans like myself are better at RPGs than they are because most of these people who are like "OMG FFX IS TEH BEST GAME!! AURON IS SO COOL!!", I want those people to understand that I am more intelligent than they, and that I am better at strategizes and comprehension than they are.

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Wow! I love me too!!

So because you played Final Fantasy back in 1987 immediatly makes you better at all RPG's does it?

Going by your logic then. I've been playing beat 'em ups since 1991 which means i'm better at all beat 'em ups have faster reactions and better timing than someone who's only played the later Tekken games. And further more I demand they acknowledge my superiority over them!!

Stop talking rubbish and pull your head out your own fantasy world where you rule supreme.

If you havn't noticed gaming's changed quite abit since 1987. Production teams now have hundreds of people working on games, they cost more to develop, market, publish and distribute. Heaven forbid a company like Square-Enix make's some money from there product. As long as you feel like the King of all RPG players.

just because you completed Final Fantasy on the NES dosn't make you smarter than someone who hasn't. Your just making yourself look like an ignorant fool.

I enjoyed VII VIII IX and X the most and greatly enjoyed VI but the older ones I didnt enjoy as much. I dont think its much fault on Squares behalf and theyre still making games just as good.

ok personaly i myself was quite upset with the change in DOS (i wish they kept the magic names the same and the characters) but i was also impressed by the new stuff they added..the music aint to shabby and the graphics i suppose are nice (specially for the bosses) but any hoot personally when it comes to FF i dont play just for a challenge..the thing with FF is that its not just a game...its an experience and with DOS it gives you that expeirence...and square is not going down hill...you clearly just dont understand there motives and who there trying to appeal to....every final fantasy shouldnt have to be the same and the battle system for 1 was not "stragetic" but it was fairly enjoyable but ffX, X-2,8 have way more comprehention in depth in that there so deep that they even protain to the story..i thought that was very cool...(gf's, dressspheres,aeons..) and i cant believe im hearing a final fantasy fan say that SQAURE is going down hill..sure ff7 set the tone but it all boils down to what kinda games your into and square pulls that off very nicely...ff6 brought "character" into play and it appealed to gamers who wanted to be able to fall in love with a character and have that pearson be the main character...8 brought a realistic touch to square (which is why i cant stand why pepole dis it all the time) 9 was an awsome ff summarization of all the classic games...10 brought a far more deep romantic/religous point of view to the series (this can be said of tactics also) and 10-2...now thats where i get way more peeved..out of any battle system X-2 wins hands down...its perfect..if you want me to post why then ask cause im to lazy to type anymore than i have....all im saying is...i trust square...and i love final fantasy *bows* :cool:

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Originally Posted by NM

Wow! I love me too!!

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I didn't intend that. I know it came off that way, but I swear, I'm not here to cause problems. I'm here to express an opinion and see if anyone else agrees. If my intent was what you've stated, my goal would most certainly be to cause problems.

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So because you played Final Fantasy back in 1987 immediatly makes you better at all RPG's does it?

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Nah, I didn't play FF in 1987 because I think that FF1 was released in 1989. But I didn't actually play it till 1993, see:

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

In 1993, my brother Jason rented Final Fantasy II for the SNES

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And note that FFII SNES was the first one I played, not FF1.

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Going by your logic then. I've been playing beat 'em ups since 1991 which means i'm better at all beat 'em ups have faster reactions and better timing than someone who's only played the later Tekken games. And further more I demand they acknowledge my superiority over them!!

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No, I just tire of what RPGs have become. It used to be such that only the intellectual types could play them because they were too difficult for the mainstream video game crowd. For example, no one in 1994 would've said "OMG CECIL IS TEH BOMB111!!!" because RPGers back then didn't talk like that. We used more civil means of expressing ourselves. People frequently talk this way about current FF characters such as Auron, Yuna, Rikku, Tidus, Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall, and so forth. Perhaps now you'll see people talking that way about Cecil, Terra, and the older characters, but you didn't see it back then. And not just because the internet wasn't around, but because of the people who appreciated the games. If someone was intelligent enough to actually play and understand Final Fantasy 1, they were far too intelligent to say something "FIGHTERS R TEH SH*T!!!". And now it's become so that any moron can play and understand these games that were once a status symbol of our sophistication. It's like when Mel Gibson played Hamlet in 1989. A disgrace to high class.

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Stop talking rubbish and pull your head out your own fantasy world where you rule supreme.

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Hehehehe. I can certainly say that I wish this were so. I've often dreamed of living in such a world, however, I doubt it will come to pass, and I can live with that just fine. Too much authority is nothing but trouble, so I'd rather not rule anything.

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If you havn't noticed gaming's changed quite abit since 1987. Production teams now have hundreds of people working on games, they cost more to develop, market, publish and distribute. Heaven forbid a company like Square-Enix make's some money from there product. As long as you feel like the King of all RPG players.

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I know gaming has changed, and I accept that. A lot of good has come from the evolving games. I hate to admit it, but I did enjoy GTA: VC. And that game could not exist on NES because the concept just wouldn't work with the graphics (and legal limitations) available in the late 80's/early 90's.

And I am remarkably pleased with all of Square-Enix's titles, and I thought I made that clear. I like FF8-FF10, but I feel that 7 was the last great one. That doesn't make the later titles bad. It just makes them not as good. Trying to measure up to a spectular thing such as FF7 is a lofty goal that I knew FF8 wouldn't meet, even before it came out. Just because so much was riding on FF8 to pass up expectations. So because of that, I was sure the game wouldn't be as good. And I was right.

However, I also thought the same about FF7 when it was coming out, but I was wrong.

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just because you completed Final Fantasy on the NES dosn't make you smarter than someone who hasn't.

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Heh. I don't believe that I am more intelligent than anyone specifically. I said that there's a group of people who could never beat a game like FF1 NES because they don't have the patience or intellect to do it. I am better than those people, and there are many of them. But just because someone hasn't beaten FF1 doesn't mean that they couldn't perhaps they haven't tried yet. Perhaps if they did, it would be no problem, but they can't because they don't own an NES, which most people don't these days.

And when you said:

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Your just making yourself look like an ignorant fool

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I believe you meant "you're" (as in "you are") rather than "your" (possesive).

Reasonable mistake. I've done it myself many times. It's just one of my stupid OCD-esque pet peeves.

Again, please don't think I'm insulting or degrading anyone specifically. I have nothing against you all, but I want you to know that when S-E made their games easier, they lowered the RPG standards and "cast Mel Gibson to play Hamlet".

Feion

Right now I really don't feel like typing much, so i'll just put two bits in.
Almost no FF game sucks. I put ALMOST because I despise X-2 and FF:MQ.
That is all for now, i'll try to post a more intellecual point later. *Yawn*

And I don't think any suck except FFX-2. But FFMQ is actually quite enjoyable... A bit too easy, but still enjoyable. Square's failed attempt at drawing in a new crowd by making an easy RPG while still making the difficult ones for the hardcore RPGers.

Feion

An RPG is only as hard as you desire it to be. In all honesty, if you were to run from every battle/decide not to use special commands/never use healing etc. etc. then it'll be harder. The whole idea behind such systems is that by utilising everything that's at your disposal and levelling up/getting better equipment then things will run more smoothly. We certainly don't want the type of RPG whereby your forced to level for many hours just to make it through a single dungeon (paging Dragon Warrior), it breaks up the continuity. In the "new-skool" way of story telling in FF games it's important to keep things moving at a steady rate. If it's broken up by hours of running around killing stuff and buying new gear then by the time the next plot device rears it's head the player may have forgotten exactly what is going on, and in the worse case scenario not care anymore. If I want to play a hard RPG then I'll think of ways to make it harder for myself. Things such as staying at a low level, using initial equipment, only using certain commands etc. If I just want to experience a quality game while enjoying the storyline then I'll play through it as intended by the designers.

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

Jeez, I'm rambling again. I get really worked up over this subject.

But I'm curious if anyone feels the same way as I do. I mean, this a FF board, so chances are, I'm not the only one here who has been playing these games since then.
Feion

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I agree on most points... but I think FF was great until FF9, not FF7. It was with FF10 it started to go down from great to good... and then FFX2 and FFXI made it go from good to average...

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Originally Posted by Mirage

And admit it, the original Final Fantasy's battle system sucks :p. You can't expect people to enjoy it when they're used to todays standard. It'd be like selling a car from 1920 and saying: "Hey, this was high tech stuff when it was new! You should still use it!" Some people would be fascinated by it ofcourse, but not many. That's why they had to fix the battle system in DoS.

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Ummm... not really...
FFX2 had the absolutely WHORST battle system and it was nothing but CHAOS! That battle system sucked in my opinion. FFX had ok battle system but nothing compared to the orginal ATB.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

There's still enough challenges in the FF games anyway. If a regular playthrough isn't enough, you could always do one of the insanely low level games. I think that gameplay-wise, the Final Fantasy games have just gotten better and better. FFX-2's one of the games with best gameplay in the series. In my opinion, it outweighs the less-than-decent story and horrible music.

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Nope, thay are all far too easy. Even the so called "super bosses" who were made for the 1 and singel purpose: to be challanging can be killed with a 1 hit-kill attack these days... or you could just make all your characters invurnable trough the whole battle with "cheat-items". I seriously just can't stand it when people use Zanmato to finish off the Drak Aeons and Penance and then say: "OMG! I defeated the hardest boss in the game!!!" :eek:
In my opinion that's just patetic...
FF8 had MUCH better gameplay than FFX2... and so did FFV... and FFVI, FFVII, FF9 and counless other games. I really don't know what people think is so great about FFX2s gameplay... and in an RPG, gameplay could never be enough to outweight the crappy story and music in FFX2...
I'm not saying that FFX2 is a awfully bad game. It's just an "average" game... and FFs used to be "great".

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Originally Posted by Ichimonji

Square's focus is to appeal to all gamers. Not ignorant Old-Schoolers.

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Awwww... that's so evil!!! :(

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Originally Posted by strawberryman222

the storyline can shift a game from playable to crap- so...

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You said it... :greenie:

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

I can't admit that because then I'd be betraying my own opinion. I feel that the original FF battle system is way more challenging than these new ones where you can rapidly press "X" through every fight. At least you had to focus on what you were doing in every fight.

I don't expect everyone to like the older FFs, I just want everyone who only plays the new ones to acknowledge that they know very little about the series and that the veterans like myself are better at RPGs than they are because most of these people who are like "OMG FFX IS TEH BEST GAME!! AURON IS SO COOL!!", I want those people to understand that I am more intelligent than they, and that I am better at strategizes and comprehension than they are.

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Yea, I hate it how magic have become completely useless in the later games. Why use magic when you can hit for 99999 with the normal attack? Argh... in FF4 and FF6 the use of black magic was vital... in FFVIII, FFX and FFX2 magic is completely useless. Basically... you just need to press the attack button over and over to win a battle in the these games. FF8 HAD great gameplay tough... trough most parts of the game. The many usefull commands and junction system made up for great gameplay... however... all offensive spells became useless from the end of disc1 to the very end of the game. In the end, Limmitbreaks became the only usefull attack command. :mad:

Well, you can't really say that you are better than them. In fact... playing all the "challnges" are sometimes much harder and sometimes require much more strategy than the older ones (when played normally). However... people never play "challanges" on their first play. And it's always the first play that's the best one. Therefore... challange on the first play is something very important in my opinion.... ummm... now... where was I? Oh, right.... so... you can't really say that you're better... but I don't doubt that you are. :D
(Man, I always get the feeling that I'm confusing people...)

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

Essentially, I'm just saying that it is irritating when someone makes a thread called "Top 5 Favorite FF characters" and someone responds with "1. AURON 2. Tidus 3. Yuna 4. Paine 5. Rikku" Am I the only one is bothered by this?

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I couldn't agree more. ;) So... nope, you're not the only one bothered by this. :greenie:

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Originally Posted by Monol

out of any battle system X-2 wins hands down...its perfect..if you want me to post why then ask cause im to lazy to type anymore than i have.

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Ok, then... now I ask you: "Why is the battle system in FFX2 perfect?"
(no matter what you'll answere... I'll be able to counter it! :tongue: )

Hmmmmmm... I quoted... 8 times in this post... cool. :cool:

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Yea, I hate it how magic have become completely useless in the later games. Why use magic when you can hit for 99999 with the normal attack? Argh... in FF4 and FF6 the use of black magic was vital... in FFVIII, FFX and FFX2 magic is completely useless.

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Oh please, did Square leave Offering, Genji Glove and the Atma Weapon out of your copy? Cecil dealt more damage than some of Rydia's strongest spells at level 99 too.

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Nope, thay are all far too easy. Even the so called "super bosses" who were made for the 1 and singel purpose: to be challanging can be killed with a 1 hit-kill attack these days... or you could just make all your characters invurnable trough the whole battle with "cheat-items". I seriously just can't stand it when people use Zanmato to finish off the Drak Aeons and Penance and then say: "OMG! I defeated the hardest boss in the game!!!"
In my opinion that's just patetic...

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Again, don't smurfing use the "cheat items" if you think they make the game too easy. I can beat FF4, FF5 and FF6 with holding the confirm button constantly if I'm 20 levels higher than square expected me to be.
I hate repeating myself, especially on a messageboard here people can read it as many times as they please.

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can't admit that because then I'd be betraying my own opinion. I feel that the original FF battle system is way more challenging than these new ones where you can rapidly press "X" through every fight. At least you had to focus on what you were doing in every fight.

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This has got nothing to do with the battle system, this has got to do with what your level is.
In FF1, you enter 4 commands. you can't really tell which character will act first, or if the enemy will kill you before it gets to act. And sure you can beat FF1 with a party of 4 fighters by pressing "confirm" all the time, and use some sort of potion every once in a while. I don't know about you, but I always use lots of different skills when I play through my games. Just because you can, because it is indeed possible to go through a game in an easy way, you don't have to. The games are made so that new people, and people who don't want to spend all day playing games can complete the games too. This way more people will be able to enjoy the games, thus more money for S-E. Seasoned RPG players like us can always make a bigger challenge out of it. Just look at GameFAQs and all the low level guides there. I don't really think playing through FF10 without using aeons, the sphere grid, or equipment customisation is very easy. Sure, it's easier when you have a guide telling you exactly what to do, but try figuring it out by yourself.

Squares new plan is to release 12 products a year. This is supposed to help them developall there different series, Star Ocean FF KH etc.
Again Unlike Feion I enjoyed the later games more than the older ones so you couldnt say Squares worsening. You're just not as into them.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Oh please, did Square leave Offering, Genji Glove and the Atma Weapon out of your copy? Cecil dealt more damage than some of Rydia's strongest spells at level 99 too.

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Well, atleast there's only 1 Atma Weapon and only 1 Offering... so only 1 person can do it that way + Ultimax2 (with gembox) is very close to being just as powerfull. And Rydias Meteo always deal 9999 dammage... not to mention the fact that Rydia couldn't hit normaly for more dammage than her magics did which means that you still have to use magic with her even if Cecil have more effective phsycical attacks.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Again, don't smurfing use the "cheat items" if you think they make the game too easy. I can beat FF4, FF5 and FF6 with holding the confirm button constantly if I'm 20 levels higher than square expected me to be.
I hate repeating myself, especially on a messageboard here people can read it as many times as they please.

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What annoys me are those who think they are great since they beat a hard superboss... with an instant-kill attack.
It really annoys me that Square make stuff like hero's and Zanmato into the FF games... yes, I can do it without using them... but I want the challanging super bosses to be just so hard that none who just relies on overpowered attacks and invurnability can beat them. :tongue:
But in FFVIII and FFX you don't need to be 20 levels higher to do that... :tongue:

You don't need to repeat yourself if you don't want to... :p

Oh, and another thing... I don't like how everything's the same for all the characters except the limmitbreaks. I know it's like this in FFVII and FFVIII as well. But really... it's much more fun when it's like in FFIV, FFVI and FFIX... that everyone have different abilities as well. It's much better that way. :p

Hmmm... I think there was something else I was going to moan about but I can't remember exactly what...

Edit: Oh, yea... the music is also getting whorse... FFX had good music but nothing compared to the old FFs music... and FFX2s music just sucks.

The only thing I have to add at this point is, what's wrong with FFX-2's battle system? It's essentially the same ATB battle system used in every game in the numbered series since FF4, that some fans were crying to have back after FFX. That, and it's faster, and adds more depth in the form of chains and the Dressphere system (read: job system - which contributed much to the greatness of FFV, and works almost as well in FFX-2). The battles in FFX-2 were as fun for me as they had ever been in nearly all previous FF titles.

And, I hate to say it, but I don't play RPGs much for story these days, anyway. If I did, I would be buying new games instead of replaying my old ones. And honestly, I don't feel that story outweighs gameplay at all. That's not to say that I feel one is clearly more important than the other, but disregarding gameplay entirely has the potential to lead to a very boring gaming experience. The plot can be wonderful, but if I openly sigh everytime I hear the battle music start to play, I'm probably going to play a different game. On the other hand, if a tale is tiring me, I can keep at it knowing the fact that after that long sequence of boring dialog, there's a fun game to be played.

Seem's to me, feioncastor, you have a problem with the people who play Final Fantasy games rather than the quality of the product.

As for the difficulty of the games. That's down to opinion. If you level up enough then every FF game is easy to complete.

And finally if I want an English lesson i'll ask for one. Don't be patronising.

Dude, no offense but Final Fantasy wasn't that intellectual, or difficult really. I mean i was 4 when it came out, and I played with my brothers and beat it. Of course, DoS is a thousand times easier. I find it hilarious that everyone said the new dungeons were so hard... I went beat Lich, then got airship, class up, then Tiamat, yes Tiamat next, then the wind cave at level 40. Not difficult. I killed Kary with one hit... wait it's not Kary anymore, well whatever it is, the fire Lady.

Yeah they're easier, but still fun, and who cares what others think, as long as you know the truth. There will always be people to claim they are something they are not, you just got to live with it...

THE JACKEL

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Originally Posted by SePhO_zO

The only thing I have to add at this point is, what's wrong with FFX-2's battle system?

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It's too chaotic.

All I really want to say is that FFX didn't really live up to the earlier FFs and FFX2 was just an average game.
I also hate the fact that FFXI is an online game only... so it's basicaly FFX2 and FFXI that made me think that everything is going wrong with the newer FFs. :greenie:

Well, we can agree on that it's annoying that people brag about beating bosses with cheap attacs, Ultima Shadow :].
I personally don't have anything against very customisable characters. However, there should be some limitations. I like it when you only have one chance to do the characters' core build, but that you can build him however you like. After that you should be allowed to do some adjustments to them whenever you please.
Also, I don't think FFX-2 and FFXI are very good indicators on how FFXII and beyond will be. FFX-2 was rather experimental, and FFXI isn't a traditional RPG at all. I think it is cool that Square wants to try out a lot of different stuff anyway.
About FFX-2's battle system; I don't really think it's very chaotic. It's got a better flow, and you line up in a more 'proper' way in battles. I mean, you rarely stand in a perfect row when fighting. Attack chaining also let you time attacks, and is another tactical element in the battles. I also like the idea of charging up for a spell then cast it. It doesn't make sense that you can pull off a high powered spell the second after decide on using it. I am also a fan of job systems in FF games, and I was pleased by the way they did it in FFX-2. Sure, i hate how they called it Dress spheres, but I can live with that :).

originals may be the best :) , but i'm a kind of person whose motto is somewhat "change is better" :cool: . i'm with the more advanced, evolved FFs on PSX/PS-2 ;) . i think FFX kind of has the weakest storyline however :eek: :p .

I really only have one thing I think is awful about newer FF's.

Simply put they are too easy. Sure you can do it without abilities armor... etc... but part of the fun is to combine abilites into interesting chains of attacks. That leads me to say that FF tactics has the best battle system. But anyways I think they should have a choice of easy, moderate or hard when you start a new game... I know I would always go with hard. In FF7 I am currently only playing in the hope to finish the story myself... the battle system while intriguing at first has definately lost it's appeal by the air raid on midgar. The only thing I look forward to are boss battles... I groan when I hear the random battle music... talk about boring just gotta click.

And I have played it at lower lvls and the game is still a breaze so being able to choose a difficulty setting would be nice and would solve most problems in my mind.

Also I like being able to make my party of whomever I want... the others are almost always with you anyways... the leader isn't always the best fighter.(in case you can't tell I don't really care much for many of the new leads that are forced into your party).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

For example, no one in 1994 would've said "OMG CECIL IS TEH BOMB111!!!" because RPGers back then didn't talk like that. We used more civil means of expressing ourselves. People frequently talk this way about current FF characters such as Auron, Yuna, Rikku, Tidus, Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall, and so forth. Perhaps now you'll see people talking that way about Cecil, Terra, and the older characters, but you didn't see it back then. And not just because the internet wasn't around, but because of the people who appreciated the games. If someone was intelligent enough to actually play and understand Final Fantasy 1, they were far too intelligent to say something "FIGHTERS R TEH SH*T!!!". And now it's become so that any moron can play and understand these games that were once a status symbol of our sophistication. It's like when Mel Gibson played Hamlet in 1989. A disgrace to high class.

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I don't know what kind of image you have in your head of adults in 1993 sitting around playing Final Fantasy II, but they were certainly not classy. And neither are you, if you think being a prick about 'common' people liking final fantasy or shakesphere is what it's all about. And, FYI, NO RPG is hard. All you have to do is invest time in leveling up, on my first, or so (rentals, lost save games and all that) playthroughs of FFIV, FFV and FFVI I had about the same ammount of trouble as on FFIX, and FFVIII. Maybe not so much FFVII and X because I was older when I played them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

Heh. I don't believe that I am more intelligent than anyone specifically. I said that there's a group of people who could never beat a game like FF1 NES because they don't have the patience or intellect to do it. I am better than those people, and there are many of them. But just because someone hasn't beaten FF1 doesn't mean that they couldn't perhaps they haven't tried yet. Perhaps if they did, it would be no problem, but they can't because they don't own an NES, which most people don't these days.

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I understand 'patience is a virtue' but having enough patience to run around leveling up for a few more hours, in order to find out what happens to the light warriors, doesn't make you any better than anyone else. And the 'intelligence' needed to be able to add the little numbers that come up under a monster to know when you should switch your characters aims is nothing a 19 year old should be bragging about.

Ok, then... now I ask you: "Why is the battle system in FFX2 perfect?"
(no matter what you'll answere... I'll be able to counter it! )

ok im new here so im not sure how you post what pepole already said and have it respectfully say who said it (if that makes sense) but im responding to yours "Ultima shadow" you asked now im gonna answer (congrats on the 8 posts by the way ;) ) now then FF-2 is perfect for the following reason..its the only FF game that i played so far that "flows" which means say you have an alchemist in your party and both your allies are dead and you have minimum HP and you decide "hey i think ill use a mega phoenix right about now" and the bar is filling and its just about to fill all the way when BAM an enemy attacks you just before you use it..and your like "gee o well guess i have to start all over again" WRONG the mega phoenix and the ATB system dont let you down cause of your awsome sense of luck and timing and all 3 of your party memebers are revived! that is awsome!! thats why its perfect!! and yes this is based off a real life experience! and OK maybe thats a bit of an exaggeration and maybe its not "perfect" but it makes battles very fun (if you dont have menu on "wait" of course) cause you can select attack or somthing..and wait till an opponnet goes to charge you..then you let him have it..then he stalls then your other buddy goes in for the kill! (or "chain" in this case) THAT IS AWSOME now please im rambling..you tell ME whats wrong with it so i can be wrong as usual and go about my merry way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Edit: Oh, yeah... the music is also getting worse... FFX had good music but nothing compared to the old FFs music... and FFX2s music just sucks.

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Agreed. That was what I liked least about that game. 95% of the music was horrid. I couldn't stand the main battle theme. Nothing at all like the classic FF battle music. The battle music from X was ok, but there hasn't been any really outstanding FF soundtracks since VIII, IMHO. A couple songs stand out here and there (I liked Real Emotion and 1000 Words, actually. But that's it), but overall music? FFX had decent music, ranging from "fairly nice" to "terrible", but FFX2's music all fell under the category of "ouch". They need to get a composer who is not tone-deaf to do the music for the next FF game.

I'd like to state an apology to everyone I pissed off with this thread. I assure you, this was not my intent. I was just bringing up the way I felt and asking if anyone else felt the same way. I wasn't trying to upset anyone or offend anyone, and it looks like that has happened. So I'm sorry

I realized when I read a post that someone said it looks like my problem lies with the people, not the game. And that seems to be true. And I'm sorry, because as I said, that was not my intent. I don't getting people upset, and when someone is, I try to fix the situation so they're not.

Really, I'm glad that people are getting enjoyment out of Square. You see, they shaped my life tremendously. They influenced who I've become. My most fond memories of childhood almost always include my brothers and I playing some FF game. Seriously, the best times of my life.

Interestingly enough, FF7 was the last one my brother Joe and I played together. I was discussing this topic with him, and he pointed that out to me. He said, "Maybe you don't like FF games cause we're not there to play them with you. Your favorite ones are all ones that we all played together, so maybe it was the togetherness that you enjoyed, more than the game. The game just facilitated it." And I think he was right.

Except for Tactics. He didn't like Tactics, and I absolutely loved it.

So again, I'm sorry for blowing up at all of you, and I hope that your FF experiences generate the same wonderful memories that mine did. It's really great to look back on.

Feion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MecaKane

And, FYI, NO RPG is hard.

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Have you ever played Zelda: a link to the past? That's also considered an RPG... and the boss in that freaking forest in the dark world is HARD!!! :p And so is some of the puzzels and dungeons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monol

ok im new here so im not sure how you post what pepole already said and have it respectfully say who said it (if that makes sense) but im responding to yours "Ultima shadow" you asked now im gonna answer (congrats on the 8 posts by the way ;) ) now then FF-2 is perfect for the following reason..its the only FF game that i played so far that "flows" which means say you have an alchemist in your party and both your allies are dead and you have minimum HP and you decide "hey i think ill use a mega phoenix right about now" and the bar is filling and its just about to fill all the way when BAM an enemy attacks you just before you use it..and your like "gee o well guess i have to start all over again" WRONG the mega phoenix and the ATB system dont let you down cause of your awsome sense of luck and timing and all 3 of your party memebers are revived! that is awsome!! thats why its perfect!! and yes this is based off a real life experience!

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But that's 1 of the things I DON'T like! :p That everything happens at the same time... it makes it feel more real time and less turnbased... and I want my FFs completely turnbased! :tongue: So basicaly... I don't like the way it "flows". I also hate the command setup... it just doesn't feel right. There's too much colour and stuff in it or something... I'm not really sure why but I think it looks like crap. :greenie: I'm not a fan of the chains either. It only mess up everything, in my opinion. As for the thing about timing and luck... I hate to rely on luck... and timing is even more needed when you fight Omega Weapon in FF8 without junctioning... being 1/10sec too late with selecting a command may mean Game Over. THAT's something I like. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monol

and OK maybe thats a bit of an exaggeration and maybe its not "perfect" but it makes battles very fun (if you dont have menu on "wait" of course) cause you can select attack or somthing..and wait till an opponnet goes to charge you..then you let him have it..then he stalls then your other buddy goes in for the kill! (or "chain" in this case) THAT IS AWSOME now please im rambling..you tell ME whats wrong with it so i can be wrong as usual and go about my merry way

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That's another thing I don't like. In a turnbased RPG anyone who gets to attack first should be able to do so. Sure, that you can kill an enemy while it's attacking makes it more realistic... but I don't want RPGs to be realistic. I think they are much more fun if they're NOT too realistic... atleast when it comes to "turnbased" battles.
Also... that you have to wait to charge up some attacks only makes magic EVEN more useless. The MP cost should be enough... but seriously... the Black Mage is the most useless dress sphere in the game. In the end, the only usefull attacks are the normal attack command and "Trigger happy"... since they don't take extremely long time to charge up + they are more powerfull than any magic attack and they are the best way to create chains. I don't like it when all your characters can do 10times as much dammage as the most powerfull spell in the game, in a singel blow... but when you also have to charge up the spells for 3 hours, it's just going too far. 97% of the special attacks in this game are more or less useless. I also didn't like the "Special dress spheres"... Limmitbreaks are much better.

Well... that's MY opinion. :p And no matter what anyone say... I think the FFX2 system is "chaotic"!!! :greenie:


Also... the earlier FFs DID require more skill than the later ones... if you don't spend 1847hours leveling up before every new dungeon. In FFVIII, FFX and FFX2 you can just press the attack button in every random encounter trough the whole game... and still be at the NORMAL levels. Ofcourse people is going to dissagree... but even the easy version of FF4 require more tactics in the battles than the later FFs do. So the FFs ARE becaming easier and easier.

There is no law saying all Final Fantasy games must have a turn-based battle system anyway ;(. I personally like RPG games with a lot of action when fighting. I love the systems we find in the Star Ocean series, and the one in Tales of Symphonia, so the system in FFX-2 is just the right thing for me. I don't feel that I relied much on luck when playing FFX-2 either, but timing, yeah.

Welll..... I really must get a PS2 so I can see exactly what ya'all are talking about when you mention FFX-2's battle system. Is there anything that would really compare to it htat I may have played?

Regardless the battle system I remember enjoying the most was Parasite Eve's.... but I already know that I wouldn't enjoy if I had to control multiple characters, one character is great though. Also Parasite Eve is at least a tad harder then FF's these days... Definately a fun game for me... some of those beasties would set me back multiple times till I finally wisened up and beat them. Added to the difficulty back then was my parents had bought me a game, my family a PS(we still use the same one.... but it is getting to be pretty weak.. .doesn't find the disc's very often now... .definately need ot replace it), but we had NO memory card. You guessed it I went and sat and tried to beat PE WITHOUT being able to save... my first time I got all the way to the Worm boss on the second day... and *Pooff*...... I tried again... only to be beaten... and finally on my 3rd or 4th try I beat it!! From there I made it all the way to the dog boss in the precient and he killed me :(. After being handed my rear 2 more times I decided to quite till I got a memory card... I was putting WAY too many hours into the game.
However others I have seen say Parasite Eve is at least fairly difficult. And it isn't difficult in that you have to run around and level alot you simply have to rethink your strategy... which is what it should be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Have you ever played Zelda: a link to the past? That's also considered an RPG... and the boss in that freaking forest in the dark world is HARD!!! :p And so is some of the puzzels and dungeons.

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Zelda's an adventure game, I'm not really sure how to explain what's an adventure game and what's an RPG. So I'll just say *turn-based RPGs are not hard, since Secret of Mana and others can be pretty difficult if you don't have the best reflexes.

Well... that's MY opinion. And no matter what anyone say... I think the FFX2 system is "chaotic"!!!


Well i respect your opinion Ultima shadow...you perfer your battles "classical" and i perfer mine "unique"...to very cool views on two quite diffrent battle styles... :cool:

as for you Feioncaster...its cool..no need to apologize (though that is very kind of you) its not like there isnt pepole out there that agree with you..your opinion is just as cool as everyone else and i for one am glad you expressed it openly unlike most pepole...i salute you :D cause personally im GLAD pepole disagree with what i gotta say..cause if everyone agreed on somthing then we'd all be the same..and when were all the same we dont care to learn anything..and when we dont care to learn anything then you dont DO anything..and when you dont do anything you stop moving and when you stop moving then you stop breathing and when you stop breathing...you die :p ;)

and for the record i think Zelda is an RPG and that game did take me somtime to beat when i was little but now that im grown up i beat it in like 2 days...*sigh* so sad but i love zelda over anything so it really doesnt matter :cool:

Again ZELDA IS NOT AN RPG
quote from exactly what I said in another forum:

Ah the fabled what is an RPG argument always fun. Well don't use the you play a role argument, cause that'd be almost every game. And don't use the, has to be random encounters or turn based, cause that isn't true either.

Most RPG's give you a choice of how to raise your characters. Zelda, does not, except Zelda II. This element of having control of character development is an RPG. Come on, I want someone to say that there isn't any choice of character development in Final Fantasy, I'm expecting it...

THE JACKEL

Feion, I hardly think you're being the most unreasonable person in this thread. I wouldn't apologize; if anyone is "upset" by something you said, that's their problem for getting worked up over something so silly.

And I don't consider the ATB system, which was present in every FF from IV to X-2 , save X and Tactics, to be turn-based.

actually i think Zelda IS and rpg and OK i wasnt gonna go with the whole "zelda isnt an rpg cause it doesnt have random battles and turnbased action" im not quite THAT Naive...but Zelda is a rpg...just cause it doesnt have chracter development..O WAIT..yes it does...item wise that is...compare it to your average adventure game (which im assuming thats what your implying it as an adventure and not an rpg) average adventures there really isnt any plot twists or anything..or plots at all for that matter...its "hey kill the bad guy and save the girl " from the begining till the end however Zelda has a plot...more so a story..it does have ALOT of rpg elements allowing it to be called either of the two...adventure or rpg but i see at as more rpg. :cool: but you got your points too ljkkjlcm9 so ill respect that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monol

Well i respect your opinion Ultima shadow...you perfer your battles "classical" and i perfer mine "unique"...to very cool views on two quite diffrent battle styles... :cool:

as for you Feioncaster...its cool..no need to apologize (though that is very kind of you) its not like there isnt pepole out there that agree with you..your opinion is just as cool as everyone else and i for one am glad you expressed it openly unlike most pepole...i salute you :D cause personally im GLAD pepole disagree with what i gotta say..cause if everyone agreed on somthing then we'd all be the same..and when were all the same we dont care to learn anything..and when we dont care to learn anything then you dont DO anything..and when you dont do anything you stop moving and when you stop moving then you stop breathing and when you stop breathing...you die :p ;)

and for the record i think Zelda is an RPG and that game did take me somtime to beat when i was little but now that im grown up i beat it in like 2 days...*sigh* so sad but i love zelda over anything so it really doesnt matter :cool:

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This time I actually DO agree with you! :D

And Zelda is a so called "action RPG". So, yes... it IS considered an RPG. :cool:

Anyway... yea, I really wish some company could make a really hard "turn-based" RPG for once... :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SePhO_zO

Feion, I hardly think you're being the most unreasonable person in this thread. I wouldn't apologize; if anyone is "upset" by something you said, that's their problem for getting worked up over something so silly.

And I don't consider the ATB system, which was present in every FF from IV to X-2 , save X and Tactics, to be turn-based.

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Agreed!

Well... it's not really turn-based like SMRPG and FFX etc. But it's the same idea. You move when you get your "turn".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monol

actually i think Zelda IS and rpg and OK i wasnt gonna go with the whole "zelda isnt an rpg cause it doesnt have random battles and turnbased action" im not quite THAT Naive...but Zelda is a rpg...just cause it doesnt have chracter development..O WAIT..yes it does...item wise that is...compare it to your average adventure game (which im assuming thats what your implying it as an adventure and not an rpg) average adventures there really isnt any plot twists or anything..or plots at all for that matter...its "hey kill the bad guy and save the girl " from the begining till the end however Zelda has a plot...more so a story..it does have ALOT of rpg elements allowing it to be called either of the two...adventure or rpg but i see at as more rpg. :cool: but you got your points too ljkkjlcm9 so ill respect that

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hey man I agree that there is character development, but as I said before, RPG's give control over that development. What control do you have in Zelda? 90% of the items are needed to beat the game. I respect your opinion, but I still think you're wrong... sorry, and I fight for the right for you to have that opinion, even if it is wrong hehe

Oh and most adventure games I can think of include the Zelda type of character development... I'd call it action/adventure personally. And where does it say anywhere that zelda is an action RPG, on the box? cause I don't see it

and btw my name is
THE JACKEL

I believe that most Zelda games are officially classified as Adventure/RPG, not RPG, and not RPG/Adventure. They put the Adventure first because the dominant characteristics of a Zelda game are Adventure based. Very little of it is actually role-playing, considering that you really don't take on the role of Link, you just tell him what to do. In a good RPG, you're supposed to somewhat become the characters, but I don't think that any Zelda game was developed with the intent of taking on the role of Link.

Feion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

I believe that most Zelda games are officially classified as Adventure/RPG, not RPG, and not RPG/Adventure. They put the Adventure first because the dominant characteristics of a Zelda game are Adventure based. Very little of it is actually role-playing, considering that you really don't take on the role of Link, you just tell him what to do. In a good RPG, you're supposed to somewhat become the characters, but I don't think that any Zelda game was developed with the intent of taking on the role of Link.

Feion

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Agreed.

However... let's stay on topic. :cool:
HOPEFULLY FFXII will be more like the older ones when it comes to stuff that i find annoying about the newer ones!

Oh, and Feion... exactly WHY don't your brother play anymore? :greenie:

hey man I agree that there is character development, but as I said before, RPG's give control over that development. What control do you have in Zelda? 90% of the items are needed to beat the game. I respect your opinion, but I still think you're wrong... sorry, and I fight for the right for you to have that opinion, even if it is wrong

well my equally stubborn friend i too will stick with my opinion (though i do agree zelda is more adventure than rpg o and it says on nintendo.com that zelda is an rpg..even though thats not a very reliable source..((or is it??))

now then yea FF12 it seems pretty cool from what i have seen..i heard the battle is real time which seems awsome and they have all the races from fftA which is even sweeter...horray for bangaas! (hope you get one in your party..that would be tooo sweeeet)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monol

well my equally stubborn friend i too will stick with my opinion (though i do agree zelda is more adventure than rpg o and it says on nintendo.com that zelda is an rpg..even though thats not a very reliable source..((or is it??))

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Actually nintendo.com just has it as an adventure game, all of them as just adventure games, even the one I classify as an RPG...

Legend of Zelda, The: Collector's Edition
Category: Adventure, System: NINTENDO GAMECUBE, ESRB: E, Release Date Nov, 2003

Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time Master Quest
Category: Adventure, System: NINTENDO GAMECUBE, ESRB: E, Release Date Feb 16, 2003

Classic NES Series: Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Advance, ESRB: E, Release Date Oct 25, 2004

Legend of Zelda, The (tentative title)
Category: Adventure, System: NINTENDO GAMECUBE, ESRB: RP, Release Date 2005

Legend of Zelda, The: A Link to the Past
Category: Adventure, System: Super NES, ESRB: E, Release Date Apr 01, 1992

Legend of Zelda, The: Four Swords Adventures
Category: Adventure, System: NINTENDO GAMECUBE, ESRB: E, Release Date Jun 07, 2004

Classic NES Series: The Legend of Zelda
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Advance, ESRB: E, Release Date Jun 07, 2004

Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time
Category: Adventure, System: Nintendo 64, ESRB: E, Release Date Nov 01, 1998

Legend of Zelda, The: Oracle of Seasons
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Color, ESRB: E, Release Date May 14, 2001

Legend of Zelda, The: Oracle of Ages
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Color, ESRB: E, Release Date May 14, 2001

Legend of Zelda, The: Link's Awakening DX
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Color, ESRB: E, Release Date Dec 01, 1998

Legend of Zelda, The: The Wind Waker
Category: Adventure, System: NINTENDO GAMECUBE, ESRB: E, Release Date Mar 24, 2003

Legend of Zelda, The: The Minish Cap
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Advance, ESRB: E, Release Date Jan 10, 2005

Legend of Zelda, The: A Link to the Past / Four Swords
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Advance, ESRB: E, Release Date Dec 02, 2002

and that's directly from searchin on nintendo.com for Zelda
SO, can we finally establish that Zelda is NOT an RPG...

THE JACKEL

and that's directly from searchin on nintendo.com for Zelda
SO, can we finally establish that Zelda is NOT an RPG...


GRRR well played mate...well played....my hats off to you (didnt mean ay offense by the way when i said stubborn if you got upset or anything :cool: ) well thanks for the listings on the game by the way (nintendo.com sure has changed since my day *cracks back*) well then im still sticking with my now clearly inaccurate opinion so THERE...*shakes fist in the air* ill have my day THE JACKAL just you waaiiiit... :D (for once ill be right about somthing :rolleyes2 doubt it though...)

funny you said "since your day" considering I'm older than you. No i took no offense by the stubborn comment, I know I am. You'll win an argument, if you're on the right side of it. Oh and it's THE JACKEL, not JACKAL, people need to pay more attention to that rather than assuming it's like the animal or something, cause it isn't!

THE JACKEL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Actually nintendo.com just has it as an adventure game, all of them as just adventure games, even the one I classify as an RPG...

Classic NES Series: Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Category: Adventure, System: Game Boy Advance, ESRB: E, Release Date Oct 25, 2004

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sorry, but you got some wrong. Zelda II is a Role-Playing Action RPG, according to this:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/data/563487.html

same goes for Zelda III and Link's Awakening. i would have to say Zelda is a mix of Action RPG and Adventure. there's no denying Zelda's RPG roots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Oh, and Feion... exactly WHY don't your brother play anymore? :greenie:

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He went onto bigger things, I guess. He got older and I guess older people don't play video games. He only plays the older ones. He likes FF8, which I don't.

Anyway, it sucks. I really wish I could get engrossed in a game like I used to back in the day... What is the problem, you think? The games, or me?

Feion

GameFAQs is not official, and they get the genres of lots of games wrong.

who can go on and say that Zelda II is not an RPG :mad: ? there's several types of RPGs, turn-based :) , role-playing fantasy :) , etc. whether GameFAQs got it right or wrong, Zelda falls into one of the RPG categories ;) .

Technically, even Half Life is an Role-Playing Game. After all, it is a Game in which you Play a Role (Gordon Freeman).

don't start that stupid thing about playing a role, as I said earlier, I did believe Zelda II to be an RPG (but it only said adventure on nintendo.com Yuffie, I was just posting what the site said), but none of the others... sorry.

AGAIN, the key factor in a real RPG is to be able to take a character and make them your own, IE develop them how you want. Name any known RPG that doesn't do that. You don't develop Link how you want, he develops and you follow it. I'm sorry people, don't get me wrong Zelda games are way up there as my favorite games, but they are not RPGs. I have given my reasons, what are yours?

THE JACKEL

So by your definition of an RPG, Jackel. What would you class Star Ocean 3 as?

You can't really choose what each character does. They just gain new move's as they level up. Sure you can give them basic spell's in attack and defence but you can't customize someone into a Blackmage for example.

whoa pepole are like backing me up *is suprised* this can be good.... :p ahh but im sick of arguing so whatever..

Anyway, it sucks. I really wish I could get engrossed in a game like I used to back in the day... What is the problem, you think? The games, or me? by the lovely feioin

you know what? im going through the saaaaame thing...you know what you should do? play some old school classics....reclaim the memories you had of when you USE to have a good time...the spark will return
give it time ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

AGAIN, the key factor in a real RPG is to be able to take a character and make them your own, IE develop them how you want.

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A large number of Final Fantasy games come to mind. In fact, I'd argue that most Final Fantasy games aren't even RPGs at all.

By today's standards FF games are not RPGs. They are all extremely linear and you are just spoon fed a plot (if there even is one). But 10 years ago they defined the term RPG.

As far as having to be intellectual to play the earlier games... that is just bunk. They consist of nothing more than mindless leveling up and buying equipment. The only feat of mental ability is going through the monotonous routine of every battle. There is nothing difficult about this. Or maybe I am just more methodical in the way I play and don't run into dungeons that I know are too difficult for my characters at their current level. Not that there is anything wrong with that type of game. It fits nicely on my flash drive and helps those boring study halls fly by.

Since people feel the need to profess the games they played like it validates their opinions. I have played/beaten FF I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, X, and FFT.

And now for something completely different.

I don't know why people hate FFX so much. I loved the turn based system because more often then not I have to leave the game for one reason or another be it the bathroom or I've been playing for 7 hours strait and should go out side while the sun is still visible. Somehow people thought just because it is the tenth one it will magically match up the FF7 which the mainstream has held up on a pedestal as a golden standard for all RPGs. The music was damn good. Nothing great but some of the songs stuck with me. The story was refreshingly different from all the others. I was so sick of the damn "flow of magic" just going by a different name every time. And the cinematics were done up all perty like. :D

You have to look at each game individually and appreciate what it has to offer. If you just want a FFVII repackaged then take a sharpie and write whatever Roman numeral you want on the CD case.

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Originally Posted by DocFrance

A large number of Final Fantasy games come to mind. In fact, I'd argue that most Final Fantasy games aren't even RPGs at all.

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do you honestly want me to list them all and how you create and develop your characters? I don't mean story wise, I mean for what you control, which would be battle...

THE JACKEL

Change is constant. Why be afraid of it?

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

do you honestly want me to list them all and how you create and develop your characters? I don't mean story wise, I mean for what you control, which would be battle...

THE JACKEL

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That's called stat-building. Not role-playing. Final Fantasy games don't allow me to control my character's personality. That's why they're not role-playing games.

There's a thread about the definition of an RPG in General Gaming Discussion now. Let's get back on the topic of Square here.

alot of u i disagree with, i think alot of people are stuck in the past and they need to move on.. u expect another 7 or 8... but they were made, you want to play something that good again, play them again then, dont sit around and expect them to make something just for u. I think x2 was great, and i love the direction SE is taking.

They are in a rough period, give them a few years and theyll be just as good as ever..

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Originally Posted by DocFrance

That's called stat-building. Not role-playing. Final Fantasy games don't allow me to control my character's personality. That's why they're not role-playing games.

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i don't know if it counts :mad: , but you can customize your own character and choose their class etc in FFCC ;) .

Stay on-topic.

oh by the way my apologys the JACKEL*....and when i said "have my day" it had absolutely nothing with age....i meant it in terms "that for once ill have a day where im right about somthing" ...not meant to be taken to seriously :cool: ...just thought id clear that one up

Pants off to Alice. I mean hats off. I mean... LATER!

Sorry to stray off topic again, but really, the only real "role-playing games" are games like Dungeons and Dragons and stuff.

Feion

*takes pants off* ;)

You have all failed.