What is an RPG?

That's it, I'm getting tired of always arguing with people about what is an RPG.

Here it goes:
It's not just playing a role, because that'd be 90% of games.
It's not collecting items and running around exploring, that's adventure.
It's not just cause it has turn based battles.
It's not because you gain experience points.
It's not because your characters have levels.
IT'S NOT ZELDA!!!

It's because you create and mold the character, ie develop them, HOW YOU WANT!!!

Again:
An RPG allows you to take a character and develop them HOW YOU WANT. You can not decide how Link develops (except in Zelda II, but I'm arguing the series in general).

Every real RPG I have ever played has allowed me to customize my characters as I see fit. Zelda does not give me that freedom. That's my main argument, if you can argue a known RPG to not have that quality, then please do...

THE JACKEL

preach it brother *still shakes fist* ;) :D :cool:

How you want? what are u talking about? Last time i checked most RPGs are very linear, and u cant make em how you want, they are who they are, you play their story. Unless ur talking about an MMORPG then i guess ur right. Or SW: KotOR, or DnD type games.

Ex: FF7-Cloud, yep, i made him the way i wanted him to be....yep...i sure did. Am I missing something here?

It is different with each persons opinion.

A role playing game is only a role playing game when the official creator says its a role playing game. If you take the term role playing game literally every game is an RPG and with lots of games these days its not uncommon for them to have parts of different genres. The catagorey isnt a big deal anyway. It just helps random buyers get an idea of what theyre purchasing. I guess Id consider it a role playing game when the main aspect of the game is the story rather than gameplay. Thats why Id call Legend of Zelda an adventure game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krystic

How you want? what are u talking about? Last time i checked most RPGs are very linear, and u cant make em how you want, they are who they are, you play their story. Unless ur talking about an MMORPG then i guess ur right. Or SW: KotOR, or DnD type games.

Ex: FF7-Cloud, yep, i made him the way i wanted him to be....yep...i sure did. Am I missing something here?

---

Did you not give him the materia you wanted? Did you not choose his equipment, to use stat raising items? Did you not choose which limit break to set? Did you not choose the other characters to use in battle? I'm not saying you choose their story, I'm saying you choose how they develop and how to use them throughout the game.

THE JACKEL

well obvisously u would have to do that, or you wouldn't be playing much at all now would you? ;)
I know what you mean. But think about it.
U equip/use items in Action/Adventure (MGS, DMC)

A n00b to RPG's would say that "its only an RPG cause its like....40 hours long." Which is true, RPG's are the longest lasting type of game out there. Plot progression wise.

[QUOTE=ljkkjlcm9]Did you not give him the materia you wanted?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Did you not choose which limit break to set? Did you not choose the other characters to use in battle? I'm not saying you choose their story, I'm saying you choose how they develop and how to use them throughout the game.

THE JACKEL

---

Using that though, here is how Zelda could conceivably be considered and RPG game. I'll use Ocarina of Time as an example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Did you not give him the materia you wanted?

---

You could explain this as not getting, say, the three Fairy Crystals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Did you not choose his equipment, to use stat raising items?

---

There's plenty of equipment you don't need in Zelda, nor must you collect the hearts that bosses leave, or collect Heart pieces.

Can't do anything with amteria or choosing companions, sorry. :)

Just trying to show how you could say Zelda is and RPG. I myself prefer to call it an Adventure/RPG.

AHH that's all adventure game stuff. Do you even have statistics in Zelda, NO. And most of the items in zelda are required, you don't need to get anything for you characters in RPGs, you'll be weak, but you don't need them. You people know their is a big difference in equiping items and using them in Zelda, and equiping and using them in final fantasy games, yet you're still arguing it. They're different and you know they are, yet you're trying to say it's the same!

THE JACKEL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark_Paladin_Cecil

I myself prefer to call it an Adventure/RPG.

---

That would not be the same. It would be a mixture of the two, with the Adventure part placed in fromt to show that it is predominent. Happy?

you dont NEED a sheild and u can have a crappy sword the whole game in Zelda... :D Sure you get items you can equip onthe way that would benefit you, but the same happens in RPGs

actually in ever new zelda you do need a shield, and you need to upgrade to the master sword(at least) and another shield at some point.

THE JACKEL

That's something I hope they change in the next Zelda, the ability to just un equip everything and beat the crap out of monsters barehanded. Doubt it'll happen, but... :D

Here's the crucial difference. In an RPG, to swing your sword, you press a button to select "Swing Sword" from a menu. In an adventure game, to swing your sword, your press a button that always causes your hero to swing his sword, regardless of context. The Legend of Zelda series is a series of adventure games.

So which would Tales of Symphonia (or any Tales game) fall under?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

It's because you create and mold the character, ie develop them, HOW YOU WANT!!!

---

Let's take the "hero" of FFX, Wanky McWankerson, AKA Tidus, for example. Sure, you can travel all over the sphere grid improving his skills and teaching him new abilities. That's all fine and dandy, but what if I want him to act differently? I don't have any choice over what his personality is like - no matter what I do, he's always an irritating whiner. So, by your logic, FFX is not an RPG, because I'm not allowed to mold the character how I want.

molding the character is for battle, not how he acts outside of battle. You mold him for what you actualyl control. DO you control the story, no, but you control battle and mold him for battle. It is an RPG... you knew what I meant, you all do, stop trying to twist it.

Tales of Symphonia is definitely an RPG, you choose how you're character grows and what abilities they learn, what title to give them to increase stats at each level. In battle you even choose which attacks to perform by assigning them from a list or accessing that list in battle. It's an RPG, with action battles.

THE JACKEL

I wish you'd stop acting like what you say is cold, hard fact.

I'm not saying I want to change the story. I want to be able to mold my character, and not just in the sense of stats. Why do you think it's called a "Role Playing Game?" I don't consider building stats to be role-playing. Role-playing involves getting into character and making decisions that determine who your character is. KotOR is a perfect example of this - your character is pretty much a blank slate, and you make crucial decisions throughout the game that will define your character. The only chances you get to define your character in FFX is by renaming him and by making a few inconsequential decisions. Otherwise, it's all spoon-fed to you with the plot, and it's the same every time. If you just want to build stats, why don't you go crunch numbers on a calculator? The result is the same. You're confusing a Role-Playing Game with a Stat-Building Game.

And that is why Half Life is more of an RPG than FFX.

Bah! does it really matter? An RPG is an RPG. Who cares about classifications?
I play video games to play the damn games! As long as you enjoy it in one way or another, does it matter?

just getting that off my chest...

"If it's not Halo, it's not an RPG" - Someone at school who told me I need to die by a shot to the head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by strawberryman222

Bah! does it really matter? An RPG is an RPG. Who cares about classifications?
I play video games to play the damn games! As long as you enjoy it in one way or another, does it matter?

just getting that off my chest...

---

I agree. Also something like the game Boktai is officially classified as an RPG but I'd say that's more like Legend of Zelda than it is like Final Fantasy. And there isn't any customizing of your character in that. Also, Pokemon is an RPG, and you don't really have customising in that, although it does have the whole levelling up thing I suppose. But basically I don't think RPGs are black and white and does it really matter anyway? It's pretty much the same as arguing what can really be classified "pop" music, or "rock", or whatever. Really there is no clear definition. I guess RPG really comes from the whole Dungeons and Dragons, and the old dice rolling thing anyway.

Quote:

---

It's because you create and mold the character, ie develop them, HOW YOU WANT!!!

---

In Warcraft 3 you can chose which abilities your heroes lean or which equipment they use, and it is up to you how you build up your forces, but it is still a strategy game.

In Jedi Knight Academy, you can chose which force Jaden learns and you can also chose a light or dark ending, and it still inst and RPG.

In my opinion, an RPG is a game that doesn't fit in any other category or combines more genres together. There are many kinds of RPG's so I don't think you can say exactly one thing that makes them out.

Also, for me the Zelda games will always be RPG's. You walk around the world, find items and equipment, fight monsters and progres the story- things that I consider RPG-ish.

There is no "true" definition of what makes an RPG, just different people's opinions. That's basically what this thread is, right from the first post, so I doubt we'll "find the truth" about what an RPG really is. It's just a title given to games that most people have thier own definition of.

Uhm, would Fable be a good example of an RPG?

I don't know what it is that technically makes an RPG an RPG. However, I think that I know one when I see one, if that makes any sense. I go by the general feel I get from them. A few games that, to me, are "true" RPG's:

-Final Fantasy (well duh)
-Tales of series
-Star Ocean series

Games that I feel blur the lines somewhat, and that I wouldn't class as "true" RPG's:

-Kingdom Hearts
-Zelda

Before someone gets up in arms about the nerve of me using the term "true RPG", I do understand that the only "true" RPG's are probably games like D&D. To me however, I loosely base my preconceptions on what an RPG should be, rightly or wrongly, off Final Fantasy. And those are the type of games that come to mind when I hear the term "RPG"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cless

To me however, I loosely base my preconceptions on what an RPG should be, rightly or wrongly, off Final Fantasy. And those are the type of games that come to mind when I hear the term "RPG"

---

Yeah, that's about how I am.

i can remember you saying in a previous thread that all FFs aren't RPG 'cuz i can't control the characters or customize them, but i beg to differ:

if you're also talking stats:
1. FFVII...equipping materia and weapons certainly sounds controllable to me
2. FFVIII...i can evenly or unevenly distribute GFs/magic spells to characters and decide what magic they get
3. FFIX...equipping abilities
4. FFX...ok, each person has different abilities (Lulu=Black magic/Yuna=White magic), but there is a way to get all the characters to learn both Black/White magic spells.
5. FFT/A...loads and loads of Jobs, ninja, alchemist, neomancer, samurai, dragoon...

if character development:
1. in the start of FF8, Squall was a tactiturn (or a pessimist), until he met Rinoa. same thing kinda goes for FF7.
2. Tidus, a care-free guy, learns the meaning of love in FFX upon journeying with Yuna.

look, a lot more people agree that Zelda is an RPG :) , so it's not just my opinion :p . and the fact whether FF is truly RPG material or not, so many people already say it's an RPG :D .

Dungeons and Dragons is the only true RPG. All else is cheap imitation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuffie514

i can remember you saying in a previous thread that all FFs aren't RPG 'cuz i can't control the characters or customize them, but i beg to differ:
if character development:
1. in the start of FF8, Squall was a tactiturn (or a pessimist), until he met Rinoa. same thing kinda goes for FF7.
2. Tidus, a care-free guy, learns the meaning of love in FFX upon journeying with Yuna.

---

Sure, that's character development, but I have no control over it. What if I want Squall to get it on with Quistis instead? What if I want Tidus to grow some gonads? FFVIII has about as much roleplaying as reading a book.

An RPG is just what it says.

An MMORPG however is something horrible created to enslave people, make them pay money for working on virtual things online and make them act as wood-elves.

Starts do not make a game an RPG. just because you cant pull up a character sheet and see them does not mean they aren't there. Link has hit points, his weapons do a certain amount of damage. Zelda and other RPGs function the same way. Things are based on a set of stats. Zelda just isn't very open-ended. The most open-ended RPG i have played would have to be the Fallout series. You could do absolutly anything in those games. But open-endness doesn't define an RPG either. The SIMS is very open but it is hardly an RPG. The biggest problem is Adventure games and RPG look so similar it can be hard to distinguish the two.

Morrowind is a rpg and u can decide on what he looks like and what he wears and how he fights.


Peace Out ?M?y?s?t?e?r?i?o?u?s? :Juggalo 4-Life:

I think you mean *gigallo
Maybe Im wrong. I dont now what a Juggalo is...

I always figured a Role Playing Game was just that- a game where the main attraction of it was taking on the role of a character. Sure, in many other games you do this, but that's not them main or dominant focus.

In FFVII for example, the main focus of the game was taking on the role of Cloud Strife, ex-SOLDIER, turned mercenary, in his struggle with his inner demons and his overcoming of them in order to save the Planet.

In a game like Halo, you take on the role of a particular character, yes, but that is not the main focus of the game. So in general, a game like Halo, woul not be consider a RPG.

RPG's are the little, now huge category of games, that's specifically focused on things that were smaller elements of most games at that time. Sure, Crash Bandicoot, for example, had a story and a character you took on the role of, but that sure wasn't the focus of the game- it was a platform game, which had you going through levels, collecting inane items for special bonuses, etc.

Why are some of the people here trying to say that RPG's do and don't have certain characteristics? RPG's are kind of a hodge-podge of many, many genres all rolled into one, but with a predominant focus on story, or the role of the main character, and the events around him or her. FFVII for example, by the elements in it could be considered the following:

Racing Game- Chocobo Racing
Snowboarding Game... heh
Shooter- Speed Square
Adventure- Looking around and exploring a world, collecting items
Strategy/War Game- Fort Condor, Submarine Game, and the battles themselves in a way.

There's probably more categories I could throw in there, but FFVII is NOT any of these genres because those parts of the game are obviously not the main focus. They use elements from other rather linear genres to tell the story of the game, or the character who you control and take on the role of.

Zelda is an RPG in a way. It's not strictly an RPG, and is more of a dungeon crawler/adventure game, but it's story is still a fairly large focus of the game. Heck, I could be wrong, but I think the creators of it even label it an RPG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

That's it, I'm getting tired of always arguing with people about what is an RPG.

---

Then why are you posting a topic about the subject, which will obviously lead to debate, disagreements, and yes, arguments? You have an idea of what an RPG is to you, but if you shut out other's ideas of what they think it is, you're only asking for arguments. People have their own opinion just like you, why fight them on it? ;)

Ya, and what about wrestling or sports games? In wrestling games you can mold a wrestler that you create into whatever you want, what moves they want, etc. How is that different from an RPG in your logic?