I realize this discussion is already dead, but I thought I would add that Sephiroth's body wasn't wearing clothes at all in the Mako crystal. It, in fact, didn't even have a lower half:
Linkage 1.
Linkage 2.
Printable View
I always thought he was bare chested but was wearing skin tight black pants like in the final battle. I cant explain the second one.
What haven't you seen Six Million Dollar man? (recently updated to six billion dollar man due to inflation). Jenova has the technology, she can rebuild him. Be sure to listen for the "chikachikachika" sound effects in the final battle.
Hmm, now I do believe he doesn't have a lower half. You can see rocks behind him where his abdomen should be.
Maybe the FMV artists didn't have enough time to finish him or thought, "The scene goes by so fast, they won't notice. Their attention will be drawn to Sephiroth's face and chest." It worked on me. I rarely watch the beautiful FFVII FMV outside of the game, and I usually have not analysed them frame by frame.
Destai, please explain the second one. I would be entrigued to discover at exactly which point Sephiroth became an uber-cephalopod.
I think that's a typo. Destai probably meant he couldn't explain the 2nd one.
Shame. I was looking forward to hearing about Sephiroctopus.
I guess after being thrown around in the Lifestream for years on end and then being encased in Mako for equally as long his body began to change, much like the 'SOLDIER members' discovered in the Mt. Nibel reactor
Sorry but I dont get what you mean. I was saying the first time I saw the FMV I thought he was dressed the same as he was in the one on one showdown between Cloud and him. Ube-cephalopod?Quote:
Originally Posted by ForestOwl
Edit: Oh right, Can"T" :p
To me, I don't think the FMV should be taken so literally. If there is nothing below the torso, why would they make his hair sweep forward to cover his nether regions? I can see how it doesn't look like there's anything there period, but I'll just guess that this was Square hurrying things up, and deciding to not fully animate every part of Sephiroth's nekkid body when they can just "obscure" it in dark mako crystal, shadows and hair. The FMV's were groundbreaking at the time, yes, but not perfect. I think it was just a way to save time. Most wouldn't catch Sephiroth's appearent handicap unless studying the FMV frame by frame, which it was never intended to be.
Camanche is probably right, it does seem like they were just trying to be fast about it.....but still.... it almost looks like hair is coming out of his abs or something....
My personal opinion is that Sephi had been in that materia soooo long that he was starting to degrade or something. Knowhatimean guys? I think that he may look like that because of his degredation process, but that wouldn't explain why his upper body is still intact..... hmm... maybe....
Wait wait! Invisible pants!!!! :)
I think it was just something they did to avoid showing him naked, as they obviously couldn't do that.
That would certainly make sense.... but why did they have to take them all the way off??? :) couldn't they just like... you know..... show a definitionless lowerbody?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindflare
Camanche:
What're you talking about? His hair doesn't move at all during the FMV, go watch it again. The hair you see in the screnes Squall provided is behind his body.Quote:
To me, I don't think the FMV should be taken so literally. If there is nothing below the torso, why would they make his hair sweep forward to cover his nether regions?
You can see hair where his lower body should be, meaning his lower body is gone.Quote:
I can see how it doesn't look like there's anything there period,
But they didn't. You have two solid objects, one right in front of the other: Layer one (the back layer) is Sephy's hair. Layer two (in front of Layer one) is where Sephy's lower body should be. Explain why you can see Layer one, but not Layer two?Quote:
but I'll just guess that this was Square hurrying things up, and deciding to not fully animate every part of Sephiroth's nekkid body when they can just "obscure" it in dark mako crystal, shadows and hair.
You say they animated his hair to flow in front of him and cover his... his lower anatomy. :P And used lighting and the Mako to hide it. How is animating his hair, using lighting and shadows, and adding more Mako going to save more time than creating Sephy with a lower body in a non-animated scene? o_OQuote:
The FMV's were groundbreaking at the time, yes, but not perfect. I think it was just a way to save time.
Chocobilly:
It's more likely that this happened when he fell into the Reactor. Mako would preserve his body.. and, as you said, it doesn't make sense that his entire lower body would deteriorate, while his entire upper body is in perfect condition.Quote:
My personal opinion is that Sephi had been in that materia soooo long that he was starting to degrade or something. Knowhatimean guys? I think that he may look like that because of his degredation process, but that wouldn't explain why his upper body is still intact..... hmm... maybe....
Do you ever actually see Sephiroth's legs after that FMV? I can't remember, but I suspect the only verion of Seph after you see that with legs is the 'image' version. He doesn't have legs in the final battle to my recollection...
So he coooooooooooould have no legs in general.... interesting development. He was born without legs... all the kids made fun of him, but he showed them didn't he.
Well, personally, I think that considering the way he looks when you fight him as Bizarro/Safer Sephiroth, this is one of his more human forms...
Dammit. I didn't realize I had made a new Thread when posting this. I had meant to hit "Add Reply" and post it in another Thread. "New Topic" should never be beside of the "Add Reply" button. Ever. My apologies for the mistake.
Anyway, here's another image that makes the fact that the hair was behind his torso more clear: Linkage.
Also, note that Bizarro Sephiroth consists only of a torso and up, as does Safer Sephiroth.
i always thought he was like sitting in the crystal :mad: .
*Looks at own post. Wonder's where self said anything about animated hair*Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthien Rogue
All I meant by what I said is that his hair, which is solid and unmoving, was CG'ed to be in front of his lower parts. I didn't mean that it actually conviently flys around, and happens to cover his nether regions. And as for saving time, all I meant by that is that it would obviously take longer to make more of a CG model that they probably wouldn't be showing anyway because it could be considered 'nudity'. Around the time FFVII was released, that would of been a big no-no, and while it probably wouldn't of gave it a higher rating, it could make some parents questionable about the games content. It doesn't take a lot of effort to black/obscure the lower part of a CG model before placing using it in the environment of the FMV.
But then again, I can see what you mean in some shots when it comes to the layers. The only explanation I can think of for that is that the backgrounds/environment had already been created, and the character model of Sephiroth was placed over it.
We'll never know the answer for sure unless someone contacts Square and they respond. It's entirely possible that Sephiroth is missing his lower half, sure. But it seems rather strange to me for Square to make something like that that you only see for a few seconds in-game, when later in the game you see the very same Sephiroth that was encased in crystal, deep in the Northern Crater, legs attached. Overall, I just figured it was a subtle way of dealing with the nudity issue.
EDIT: Sorry, to clear up what I meant, when I said "animate" I didn't mean animate as in, a moving object or body part (ie Sephiroth's hair). I just meant to put into CG. You can "animate" an object, but that doesn't mean it has to be moving.
unforunate chocobo accident
Luthien obviously didn't mean anything to the effect of "moving hair," Camanche. "Animated" could have been swapped out for "rendered" there and the meaning would have been the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camanche
Anyway, this isn't a matter of his hair being in front of his lower areas. It's quite obviously behind his torso. It obviously flows behind his back in this first picture, and it's likewise as obvious in one of the others I've posted. Refer to the areas marked in red on the following picture:
Linkage.
For the record, nudity isn't as big a deal in Japan as it is in North America, so I doubt they would have really cared much if it was intended for Sephiroth to still have the lower half of his body. In any event, it likely wouldn't have taken as much effort to render the tops of legs and a waist wearing black pants as it did to render all that hair and the rocky background that are visible instead.
If it wasn't intended to convey that his legs were gone, then this wasn't a case of being lazy in making an FMV, but a case of outright stupidity, as the scene shows us beyond all reasonable doubt that his legs are not there, thus, meaning that they would have been irrefutably conveying something not at all intended to be the case.
By the way, concerning your earlier point about the FMV not being very long and not intended to be scrutinized to this degree, the obvious lack of legs is visibile for a solid 2.5 seconds. Considering how quickly the human eye can process incoming stimuli (a lot faster than that), it would be a vastly stupid assumption on their part to think that no one would notice without the aid of a video program. I know I did. Go to Blue Laguna.net and download the FMV entitled "Cloud Hands Over The Black Materia" if you must, as it's extremely obvious.
Apologies, I thought he had taken what I said to mean literally "animated" as in moving. Rendered, that's the word I was looking for.
Yeah, I definately see your point. As for laziness vs. stupidity, of course it would not have been a large degree of extra effort to render the 2.5 seconds, I just thought the only logical reason for them to make such a doof was to speed things up if only in the slightest way, instead of them just making stupid mistakes on such a high profile project. Sure, there are grammar errors in FFVII, but that's just from the translation.
To be honest, if it's not to speed things up, I can't understand why Square would do something like that, but, in the end, I don't think it's something that should be intently scruntinized for some "hidden" meaning in-game.
maybe his body deteriorated or even 'became one' with the lifestream from being in it so long and in that scene he was being rebuilt or reforming and it just wasnt done yet which also covers up the nudity issue
Exactly what I was thinking. Go mschmidtFF!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mschmidtFF
He's a psychotically deranged mass murderer who is trying to become a god. If he wants to go around without any legs, I'm sure as hell not going to complain...
But come on. If he can change forms to Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth, changing into a human form with no legs would be a piece of cake. The legs probably just wouldn't fit in the crystal. :D
Hmm, maybe his limbs got turn off or something, like he whacked something on his way down in the reactor. Or, his legs ripped off when he was in the lifestream.
Is the FMV different in the Japanese version? I read on gamefaqs that they did add FMV, and it happened to be in the long FMV not too long after this. Notice that all of the weapons warp away, the last one noticably Ruby.
Correct. The WEAPONs warp away in the order of Ultimate (before all the others), then it shows Saphirre (that's what I call the only one you never fight), Diamond, Emerald, and Ruby launching out. In that order. So that is definitely American version only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weimar Pluto Knight VII
Yah but Sephiroth is so cool he doesn't even need legs!
But to tell you the truth, maybe he doesn't APPEAR he has any legs is because the smudge of the crystal is blocking it out?
I dunno, just a thought...
Quote:
But to tell you the truth, maybe he doesn't APPEAR he has any legs is because the smudge of the crystal is blocking it out?
I dunno, just a thought...
If there's crystal covering his lower body, why can we see hair, which is behind where his lower body should be?Quote:
Anyway, this isn't a matter of his hair being in front of his lower areas. It's quite obviously behind his torso.
His hair is kind of wrapped around his lower body. Plus, he's wearing black trousers. Combine those two elements, and it might look a little like he's got no legs. In this picture, you can indeed see hair in front of him. However, that seems to be sprouting out of the front of his body, not just hanging down behind him. See how the hair blends into the flesh of his stomach? Either his body hair grew to unnatural lengths while he was in the Lifestream, or that's something to do with Jenova's head. For whatever reason, there are whisps of hair hanging down in front of his body.
In this picture, the "legless illusion" is caused by the density of the crystal he's inside, and by the reflections on the crystal's surface. Hos body just fades away as the crystal gets darker.
Look closely. At no point can you see a clear boundary, as though anything's actually been severed. He's obscured, he's hidden, but he's all there.
The very notion that he'd lose his legs and nobody would notice or care... that's just slightly unhinged.
We're talking about torn flesh hanging there. If his hair floated against it, it's going to be pressing against it and would blend right in with it. Flesh isn't all that thick, you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Again, the hair is behind him. The very picture you linked to shows it behind him over his shoulder. We already know that it's long enough to be reaching down below his waist, which happens to be gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Again, there's torn flesh hanging there in a very obvious boundary. Note the areas pointed to by the red arrows in the picture that will follow momentarily. The length of the various bits of torn flesh aren't even constant. How can you determine that there's no clear boundary? Also, note that a rock that is present out behind his hair to his left is visible directly beneath his torso, where there should be legs: Linkage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
For the benefit of the visually impaired, I've taken the liberty of acquiring another screenshot that clearly shows open space beneath his torso. Also, note that some of that hair can clearly be seen between his arm and his left rib cage, thus clearly showing that its extending from behind him and floating forward (that bit of hair will be pointed to with a red arrow): Linkage.
I noticed. I care. Do I count? Oh, you mean somebody in the game. Well, I don't know, Big D... but if I were any of those folks in that game, I'd be a little more concerned with that giant chunk of rock and fire that the body was going to be used to bring down than I would be with the body itself. Maybe I'm just slightly unhinged, and maybe that's just me, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Doom, what was the point of your post? O.o What are those pics for? o.O
He's trying to show us that the final boss forms don't have legs, either, it seems.
Actually, in this picture, it looks as though his lower body has become a kind of fibrous, hair-like form. In the picture, you can see some hair in front of his torso. However, that hair starts in front of his body, not behind, not wrapped around. What I meant about 'blending' is that there seems to be a 'transition' from solid tissue to fibrous tendrils, not a delineated boundary between two distinct regions.
In this case, the answer is simple: Jenova transformation. He's begun to shed his human form for something greater. We know that he began to transform before he got the Black Materia; in the Temple of the Ancients, Sephiroth's projection says, "...I am becoming one with the Planet." Present tense - the process is already occuring. So, it makes sense that he'd be changing, bonding with Jenova already. In the entire game, no form of Jenova, and no human transformed by Jenova, is ever seen to have legs.
See, for example: Jenova-BIRTH, Jenova-LIFE, Jenova-DEATH, Jenova-SYNTHESIS, Helletic Hojo, Lifeform: Hojo N/A, Bizarro Sephiroth, and finally Safer Sephiroth. It would seem that legs aren't a priority for Jenova.
Considering that, it'd not be too surprising to discover that Sephiroth's transformation made his redundant legs disappear early on.
What others are describing as "torn flesh" looks more to me like Sephiroth's thick locks of hair. However, it's the same colour as his skin, and it blends right into the flesh of his stomach. Torn skin doesn't look like that; to my eyes, he's begun to turn into something else. Futher evidence: look at his pectoral muscles. There are thick, parallel ridges at his sides. They look a little like ribs, except that no human being has ribs running in that direction. They don't match any known muscle configuration, either. If anything, they look a little like gills... but then, no human has those either. The only reasonable conclusion is that they are some kind of unnatural transformation. This was discussed extensively in an article on some other website somewhere.
Notice that Jenova's head isn't visible in any of those FMVs? Sephiroth took it with him into the Lifestream, yet not it cannot be seen. One can only conclude that he has already bonded with it. This would help to explain why Sephiroth is at the heart of the Jenova Reunion, and it'd also explain why he's apparently beginning to change form.
But D, in this picture it's obvious that the only hair-like material in that crystal is the hair running down from the back of his head and across his back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
At the very least, I'm glad that you're acknoweldging that his legs aren't there (a transition from your last Post).
Look again. His hair is white. His flesh is... flesh-colored. The material hanging there below his torso is the same color as his chest and arms, not the same color as his hair at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
For that matter, that material hanging there is far more wide than the locks of his hair. Compare it to the hair that is only an inch away on the picture. Furthermore, the material hanging there isn't the same length as the hair seen only a moment later in the game in this picture.
Speaking of that picture, note also that the color of the flesh on his abdomen is not the same color as the hair. There's an obvious line of demarcation.
By the way -- and I should think that this would be as prominent a point as any I've made -- if what we see there isn't the same hair we saw a moment before here, then where'd all that hair go?
For that matter, when the camera angle changes back to the same angle as seen here as the Black Materia begins interacting with Sephy's body about four seconds later, why is it that his hair is in the same position as it was previously, and there's not all that long hair extending from the bottom of his abdomen as your claim would require there be?: Linkage.
Considering the length of it, the small object that is the Black Materia certainly wouldn't be obscuring it if it were there.
He meant "I'm going to become one with the Planet," D. If you'll recall, Aerith asks him this: "How do you intend to become one with the Planet?" He goes on to explain his/JENOVA's plan to do this, something which had not yet been even so much as set in motion:Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Quote:
Sephiroth
"It's simple."
"Once the Planet is hurt, it gathers Spirit Energy to heal the
injury."
(He slashes again, chuckling.)
Sephiroth
"The amount of energy gathered depends on the size of the
injury."
(He thrusts his sword into the ground.)
Sephiroth
"...What would happen if there was an injury that threatened the
very life of the Planet?"
"Think how much energy would be gathered!"
(He pulls his sword from the ground. His whole body begins to flash,
electrically, as he laughs.)
Sephiroth
"Ha ha ha. And at the center of that injury, will be me."
"All that boundless energy will be mine."
(He slashes his sword.)
Sephiroth
"By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a
new life forn, a new existence."
"Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now."
"Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul."
And Homo Sapiens don't have hair that defies gravity like Cloud's, or walk like a toy like Barret does (go to Blue Laguna.net and download the FMV entitled "Motorcycle Chase" to see what I mean). The graphics rendering of those FMVs was not exactly on par with being realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
(Advent Children Spoilers; highlight to read.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
(SPOILER)JENOVA's head is still present in Advent Children, however. This fact and the fact that no one ever makes note of the head in the game suggests Sephiroth's body didn't merge with JENOVA's head.
To summarize, the principle of Occam's Razor (all things being equal, the most simple explanation is the best) applies here:
1) What we are shown is the very obvious fact that his legs were gone and no long hair was growing out of Sephiroth's lower abdomen, whereas his very long hair was drifting behind him and to the left.
2) We're then shown a camera angle of his body from in front of his body and to its right, meaning his torso is now in front of the hair drifiting to the left from our perspective.
3) The camera angle then returns to the previously shown angle of his body, with his hair still drifting off to his left while behind him, with, again, no long hair growing out of his lower abdomen.
4) All opposing views have either required ignoring the open space beneath Sephiroth's body, ignoring the specifics of the plan to become one with the Planet, or assuming something that's not suggested by the game and is ridiculously more complicated an explanation than "He fell through a Reactor, lost his legs as a result, and his torso was then carried to the Northern Crater by the Lifestream and there became encased in Mako, with the hair seen being the same hair shown previously and shown after being off to the left of him behind his torso before we were shown the torso from a front-right angle."
In this case, Occam's Razor would rule in favor of "He fell through a Reactor, lost his legs, and his torso was then carried to the Northern Crater by the Lifestream and there became encased in Mako, with the hair seen being the same hair shown previously and seen after being off to the left of him behind his torso before we were shown the torso from a front-right angle." And, again, an explanation of "The hair was growing out of the bottom of his torso" would require explaining where his actual hair went, because there's not any other hair in that crystal.
is that his hair in the second one or his skin!?
=| .....Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishBun
It's neither! It's actually a secret message! Look!
Teh Hidden Message Revealed!
(>O.O<)
A further question would go as such...
Wasn't that Sephiroth that fell into the reactor a sephiroth clone and the real one was in the North Crater the whole time?
Point two: Doesn't it take like a long freaking time for materia to grow? I know that the reactors make it, BUT that is under high pressure and the like, and from the look of Sephi's place, I would say there isn't much pressure and such.
What do you guys think? Is this Sephi the same one who fell or not? Cause I really didn't think it was in the game, and I still don't think he was.
No. Sephiroth ended up in the Crater AFTER falling into the Lifestream. That's how he ended up there, encased in Mako.Quote:
A further question would go as such...
Wasn't that Sephiroth that fell into the reactor, a sephiroth clone and the real one was in the North Crater the whole time?
Well, it's five years later, right?Quote:
Point two: Doesn't it take like a long freaking time for materia to grow? I know that the reactors make it, BUT that is under high pressure and the like, and from the look of Sephi's place, I would say there isn't much pressure and such.
I think you're the only person who doesn't think that the Sephy we see in the flashbacks is the real Sephy. o.O We know he's the real Sephy... o.OQuote:
What do you guys think? Is this Sephi the same one who fell or not? Cause I really didn't think it was in the game, and I still don't think he was.
Oh okay.... Upon further research and thought I realize that they are the same guy... but in the game I was sure they weren't. Sorry, just thought I'd put it out there. :)
I'm very disheartened and surprised that nobody's gone with the commonsense answer that, hey, Square can't show a penis in a game without losing most of its audience.
It's basic censorship, folks. It's not a deeper underlying mystery that contains the essential building blocks of existence. It's artistic censorship.
Whether censorship was at work or not wasn't the issue, though. The matter of how things were structured within the narrative was. Supposing censorship had really mattered, the matter of this debate would have still been "How did they go about it?" They could have just had him wearing pants. Instead his legs were simply gone. The lack of legs was the issue at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaJinx
I feel I addressed the lack of legs issue in declaring why they weren't there, or, rather, why they weren't visible. If you'd like me to post a much longer, wordy, and entirely pointless post to make it sound more important than it really is, though, I can certainly do that. As it stands, I don't think it's a huge jump to think that Square wanted Sephie to appear in a natural state without being inappropriate to the audience.
Then they could have just given him pants, had the rock formation cover him up to his stomach, or not had the camera go below his wast, rather than render this: Linkage. There's various methods they could have employed to make him still appear to be in his natural state without there being anything that might have been deemed inappopriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaJinx
On the other hand, there was only way to visually express that his legs were gone: By not rendering them and having the camera go below his waist.
Bleeding heck. If Sephiroth really didn't have legs, I think they would have made it much more obvious. And I really don't see any torn flesh. I just see everything becoming obscured as we get near the lower areas of his body. And as for a natural state, clothing isn't a natural thing we are born with or anything. I won't say anymore on this, I just can't see how this is a big deal. It just seems to be reading into an FMV a bit too much.
Could you elaborate, please? How could it be made more obvious than to show that they're not there? o.OQuote:
Originally Posted by Camanche
Referring to the link above, one can clearly see hair on the other side of his body which wouldn't be visible were legs below his waist.
I meant the natural state of having legs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camanche
It's really not. It's just an observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camanche
Could you also elaborate on this? Reading too much into it would mean formulating an elabroate explanation for why the legs are there, whereas not doing so would be accepting that they aren't. For that matter, the two boss forms of Sephiroth's body fought at the end of the game didn't have legs, either. There's more to suggest this than just the FMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camanche
Gah, as much as I don't want to, I'll try. :p By this, I simply meant, from my perspective alone, I never once noticed Sepiroth's 'lack of leg's' until I came across this thread. And with all the crystal, hair, and various things making the visual unclear, I just think it's nothing that was made amazingly obvious. As said here, some people noticed this right off the bat, while others never have before. So, to me, since it wasn't something most people would catch on to, it wasn't a terribly important 'issue' for the player to notice. (This is assuming he doesn't have legs in the FMV)Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD
Ha! Sorry, I thought, by natural state, you meant Sephiroth being in his birthday suit.Quote:
I meant the natural state of having legs.
My doof again. This has just been analyzed so intently that I thought there was some Huge, Big Story Revalation Theory that went along with this. Apologies.Quote:
It's really not. It's just an observation.
All I can say to this is about the same thing I said in the first paragraph of this post. To me, it simply wasn't something that was terribly obvious, and it is only one small part of the game. I just figured that if it really is an important part of the game, or something one should notice, it would have been made more obvious than during just that one part. I just don't see the sense behind Sephiroth suddenly missing a large part of his body, or why he would be. Something that significant would of been brought to attention in a more alarming fashion, don't you think? (I don't consider the FMV alarming, because I think it's debatable from what you see. Not to mention, some people don't even notice it, like myself. Maybe Square was just taking artistic license when obscuring Sephiroith's nether regions, which is why it basically looks like they are not there at all. *shrugs*)Quote:
Could you also elaborate on this? Reading too much into it would mean formulating an elabroate explanation for why the legs are there, whereas not doing so would be accepting that they aren't. For that matter, the two boss forms of Sephiroth's body fought at the end of the game didn't have legs, either. There's more to suggest this than just the FMV.
I just can't grasp the logic behind it without getting too crazy with the theories. Just the way I think and see things I suppose. I'm really not trying to counter anyone's theories or arguments, as I don't want to convert anyone to my view point, so I'll elaborate, but I'd rather not debate this. If all of your excellent arguments and debates can't convince me otherwise, I doubt anything else here will. :p
hahaha... finally, someone asked about this!! I always though sephiroth had really long pubic hair or something ><;;...
:eyebrow: ...I really wish I hadn't just read that.
I think that Sephiroth has no legs because he is absorbing mako energy from the crystal.
Thats why I think his leg-like tenticles are made from the mako crystal as well as his wing and circles around his head.
http://img223.exs.cx/img223/7321/sep...legs9po.th.gif