Serious or silly?

Should message board staff be rigid and rule-abiding, or should they take a few liberties and have fun with the whole thing?

Basically, do you think moderators and admins should be professional and responsible - just like in a real job - or should staffing be a fun activity, meant to contribute to the enjoyment on a message board?

Personally, I'm a big believer in the importance of setting a good example and maintaining high standards, without being excessively strict. MBs are meant to be fun diversions from the rigmarole of real life, but too much goofing off leads to a spam-cluttered, unenjoyable environment, as well as inevitable accusations of hypocrisy or favouritism when the regular members get penalised after following or question the lead they are shown by those with power.

Discuss, please - just for curiosity's sake.

I think there are times for both. For instance:

In general, I say have fun with it. Be witty, play pranks on each other or regular members, spam, whatever. In most situations, fun is the perfectly acceptable choice. However, there's nothing wrong with wanting to maintain a more serious, professional attitude, either.

However, there are times with I believe it is absolutely necessary for Staff to be professional. Feedback is one of them. When a member suggests something, especially if they are in some form giving feedback to staff(usually to critique) in a serious manner, than I believe it's necessary to respond in turn. I won't name names, but when Staff members blow someone off(especially using naughty langauge which would get a regular member in trouble), it sets a horrible example and just looks bad.

Yeah, I'm all for having fun and playing pranks. I don't get paid enough (read: nothing) to be professional.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

However, there are times with I believe it is absolutely necessary for Staff to be professional. Feedback is one of them. When a member suggests something, especially if they are in some form giving feedback to staff(usually to critique) in a serious manner, than I believe it's necessary to respond in turn. I won't name names, but when Staff members blow someone off(especially using naughty langauge which would get a regular member in trouble), it sets a horrible example and just looks bad.

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It doesn't help when the suggestions are really bad. Regular users and staff need to take this forum a little more seriously, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Yamaneko

Yeah, I'm all for having fun and playing pranks. I don't get paid enough (read: nothing) to be professional.

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But then, weren't we offered this job so that we could contribute to the ongoing success of the forum? We all chose to become moderators (except RSL who is chained for life), so I'd say we're morally obliged to do a decent job.[q=Raistlin]When a member suggests something, especially if they are in some form giving feedback to staff(usually to critique) in a serious manner, than I believe it's necessary to respond in turn. I won't name names, but when Staff members blow someone off(especially using naughty langauge which would get a regular member in trouble), it sets a horrible example and just looks bad.[/q]A good point. But then, in many cases there are staffers with different approaches to things. If a handful of staff members are horsing around, does it make the whole team look bad? Does it drag an entire forum into a deeper low? That's what would worry me, if it ever came to that. The idea of a whole forum being dragged into disrepute by a minority.

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Originally Posted by No Big Deal

(except RSL who is chained for life)

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:mad2:

I can't stand automatons who live by the rules of something as recreational as a message boards. There's nothing wrong with a little spammishness every once in a while, whether it's from a staffer or a regular user. I'd say you're safe if about 5 to 15 percent of your posts are one-liners, jokes, spam or whatever. It's supposed to be a fun environment, not an office!

Or, an office of FUN! [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img]

I guess there's two sides to this argument:

When staff choose to be staff, they give up their rights to have "fun", and by that I mean breaking the rules and acting in a silly manner as they have to enforce said rules and generally set a good example.
On the other hand, this would lead to many people not wanting to be staff: What's the point in posting on a message board if it isn't fun?

I guess there just has to be a balance between the two.

When I was in EoFF staff, I treated it seriously. But that doesn't mean I can't have my fun. So I try to make others enjoy EoFF while doing mod-work and I enjoy it, as I can be serious and silly. :P

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It doesn't help when the suggestions are really bad. Regular users and staff need to take this forum a little more seriously, anyway.

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I would hope that if you're qualified enough to be offered a position of staff here at EoFF, you have enough restraint on the insigificant suggestions. It's not that hard not to call an idea "stupid" or not to publicly cuss out members.

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But then, weren't we offered this job so that we could contribute to the ongoing success of the forum? We all chose to become moderators (except RSL who is chained for life), so I'd say we're morally obliged to do a decent job.

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Exactly. Staffing is a responsibility, not a privilige. You were offered the position for the benefit of the forum - not as a reward.

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A good point. But then, in many cases there are staffers with different approaches to things. If a handful of staff members are horsing around, does it make the whole team look bad?

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Do the actions of one part of staff reflect on the whole? Absolutely.

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Does it drag an entire forum into a deeper low?

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Well, depends on the action. :p
But I would imagine it could.

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When staff choose to be staff, they give up their rights to have "fun", and by that I mean breaking the rules and acting in a silly manner as they have to enforce said rules and generally set a good example.
On the other hand, this would lead to many people not wanting to be staff: What's the point in posting on a message board if it isn't fun?

I guess there just has to be a balance between the two.

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Exactly. And that balance is not cussing out or patronizing members in Feedback. I don't think that fits anyone's idea of "fun" except maybe Bleys's.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I would hope that if you're qualified enough to be offered a position of staff here at EoFF, you have enough restraint on the insigificant suggestions. It's not that hard not to call an idea "stupid" or not to publicly cuss out members.

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Yes, it's not that hard to do any of that, but I'm just saying that the ridiculous posts far outnumber the serious posts. It doesn't look like anyone draws a line between what's all in fun or what's just plain useless, you know? In fact, this, in itself, probably won't do that much unless someone critiques a specific matter or something similar.

Please don't close my Lounge spam thread.

EDIT: I suppose I should submit a real response.

For the most part, I enjoy a staff that is, for the most part, enjoyable, and occassionally allowing certain things to happen, even if they break the rules, like the occassional staff-endorsed spam thread. However, it has to be a tasteful spam thread.

I agree that it is part serious part fun. Some people just have different ideas on what mix to use. I try to be professional and set a good example, but you better believe I'll get my kicks in as well.

What's the point of being here if you can't have fun? Staffers tend to be chosen because they contribute something special to the community, and shouldn't have to change the way they act simply because they've got a new title under their name.

Of course, that's not to say that the forum staff should endorse spamming or fooling around, but if they can't enjoy themselves like the rest of us then it's just unfair.

As long as they treat everyone the same and don't have double morals, I don't have a problem with it.

Fun is verboten!

Staff should definitely horse around. Remember when Sean and his RL friends got -faced and went on a spamming spree? That was great. Of course, I would have made a more entertaining rampage, but I'll settle for what I can get.

Fun is what makes the MB worthwhile.

I take all of my jobs seriously and do them to the best of my ability, whether they're paying jobs or one like this for which I get absolutely no money. This job probably takes up a lot more of my time than my paying job, but I don't mind giving it because I love this site and I want to do my best to keep it a place that is above par in all areas. This means enforcing the rules that are set out for the board and these responsibilites come first; however, some fun is necessary when the time is right for it. All work and no play can get rather boring. However, I don't think that that fun should be something that goes totally against the boards regular policies.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

However, there are times with I believe it is absolutely necessary for Staff to be professional. Feedback is one of them. When a member suggests something, especially if they are in some form giving feedback to staff(usually to critique) in a serious manner, than I believe it's necessary to respond in turn.

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I agree with you here. Help and Feedback should have total professionalism, but sometimes it's almost impossible to maintain that standard, especially when the main purpose of some of the suggestions and questions really is to just get a flipant response or it's just another whine fest thread in which it is again impossible to please everyone.

I like the :monster: smilie :cookie: :cookie:

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Yes, it's not that hard to do any of that, but I'm just saying that the ridiculous posts far outnumber the serious posts. It doesn't look like anyone draws a line between what's all in fun or what's just plain useless, you know? In fact, this, in itself, probably won't do that much unless someone critiques a specific matter or something similar.

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Oh, I could. I definitely could. But I do not in the interest of peace.

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Staffers tend to be chosen because they contribute something special to the community, and shouldn't have to change the way they act simply because they've got a new title under their name.

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Definitely, but there's certain expectations towards staff. As a regular member, I feel no restraints in my interactions with other members. I don't bother trying to restrain myself, and if I go over the line, I'll hear about it from Staff, and know not to continue down that path anymore. However, Staff shouldn't go over that line - they should restrain themselves in the face of the other members. And if they don't, Cid should hear about it, and that's much more serious than if a simple ol' regular member did something wrong.
To put it simply: a staffer flaming is a much more serious offence than a regular member flaming someone.

What do you mean by 'restrain yourself'?

he means that I can touch you, but if you touch me back then its news!

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Originally Posted by Citizen Bleys

Staff should definitely horse around. Remember when Sean and his RL friends got -faced and went on a spamming spree? That was great. Of course, I would have made a more entertaining rampage, but I'll settle for what I can get.

Fun is what makes the MB worthwhile.

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I agree with this. Having fun and trying to include everyone in that, has a better effet on the community than trying to enforce the rules.

I agree with the part that Bleys would have made a more entertaining rampage.

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What do you mean by 'restrain yourself'?

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I mean by not patronizing members, not cussing out members, not getting into fights with members, not blowing off stupid suggestions(you know all the stupid stuff you guys deal with here in Feedback? Multiply that by ten and you get what I have to deal with at tGA, so I'm speaking from experience here), and the like.

Most of the stuff we blow off here is dumb. I liked Feedback when there was one or two active threads in it, not nine or ten about the dumbest requests ever.

That doesn't mean you have to say "this is dumb." You can take the extra two seconds of thought to instead type, "I don't see why this is necessary" or something similarly non-derogatory.

The rules of the board should tell the admins and mods how to act. The more rules there are the less fun mods can have. It is their job to uphold the rules and follow them better than anyone else.

I <3 you, edcjgkhklgknvinfxcnvbnm. :love:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

That doesn't mean you have to say "this is dumb." You can take the extra two seconds of thought to instead type, "I don't see why this is necessary" or something similarly non-derogatory.

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I really wish people could see through PC phrases.

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Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm

The rules of the board should tell the admins and mods how to act. The more rules there are the less fun mods can have. It is their job to uphold the rules and follow them better than anyone else.

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The more rules a society has, the more problems it's going to have. Rules should only be applied once something within the society is deemed inappropriate. Of course we can make a bunch of rules off the bat and make everyone miserable.

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I really wish people could see through PC phrases.

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It's not PC. It's not flaming the members and making them look stupid. Leave the "this is stupid" stuff to the regular members.

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The more rules a society has, the more problems it's going to have.

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I think there's more of a curve to it, actually. :p

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Rules should only be applied once something within the society is deemed inappropriate.

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Yep, and the last time I checked, flaming and mocking was deemed inappropriate a long time ago.
The "not blowing off member suggestions" was just a request to, oh, I dunno, be considerate of members who might not have the experience of other people. It's otherwise referred to as "common courtesy" or "basic respect."

Yes, because the request for a T-Rex smiley needs to be addressed in a serious and professional manner.

So, the regular members can be complete jackasses, but the staff has to set the example no one will follow?

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Originally Posted by Yamaneko

Yes, because the request for a T-Rex smiley needs to be addressed in a serious and professional manner.

So, the regular members can be complete jackasses, but the staff has to set the example no one will follow?

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I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're talking about a forum that has :shoot: and :chop: as smilies.

If it's already broken, don't try to break it even more.

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Yes, because the request for a T-Rex smiley needs to be addressed in a serious and professional manner.

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Other smiley suggestions have been immediately accepted...let's just say it doesn't need "this is stupid - no one cares."

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So, the regular members can be complete jackasses, but the staff has to set the example no one will follow?

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Not quite to that degree, but staff definitely should have higher standards than regular members. You remember my FG admin days - I was willing to accept much more crap from regular members than staff. And that's how it should be.
The point is, staff shouldn't be "complete jackasses" period. Some members may at one time or another get away with perhaps more than they should have, but staff should never have to be analyzed to such an extent.

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Originally Posted by cl_out

I like the :monster: smilie :cookie: :cookie:

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All staffs and admins should be like this dude. :greenie:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I mean by not patronizing members, not cussing out members, not getting into fights with members, not blowing off stupid suggestions(you know all the stupid stuff you guys deal with here in Feedback? Multiply that by ten and you get what I have to deal with at tGA, so I'm speaking from experience here), and the like.

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I mean restrain yourself as a member here. You say you don't bother trying to restrain yourself, and when a mod tells you you've gone over the line, you know not to continue down that path. Does that mean you will do the things in the quote above until you are told not to (patronizing/cussing/fights/etc.), or were you referring to something else?

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Does that mean you will do the things in the quote above until you are told not to (patronizing/cussing/fights/etc.), or were you referring to something else?

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By "I don't bother restraining myself" I meant that I don't bother restraining myself specially for these forums. I still have the basic "common courtesy" and "basic level of respect" things going, but I don't restrain myself additionally to fit into the boundaries of all the rules. And I believe staff members should.

Oh, ok. :D

Yes, I think we can all stand to act a little more professionally. But how do you get them to if no one is listening? I can only speak for myself.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Oh, I could. I definitely could. But I do not in the interest of peace.

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Maybe we'll get somewhere when you're ready to, heh!

I've already posted them in prior locked LJ entries, which are viewable by BoB, Yams, and Kishi.

If you wish, I can PM/email them to you(or you can ask BoB or them, who I give permission here to share anything from my LJ with EoFF Staff). But for now, I'm going to leave those issues at rest.


Del: yes, you only speak for yourself. But your actions speak for Staff as a whole. You also have authority in the staff forum, and can be a voice to see change to the benefit of the forums. Isn't that what your job is? Doesn't being on staff mean something more than closing threads?

You can voice all you want, but if no one listens then it's just like speaking to a wall.

Oh, I know BoB hears me. One of those occasions even disturbed him. :p

I prefer my staff [strike]shaken, not stirred[/strike] silly, not serious.

Seriously, what good has having a stick shoved up your ass ever done?

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Oh, I know BoB hears me. One of those occasions even disturbed him. :p

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Sorry, I meant the general form of 'you'. It is not my place to know or give you (specific) the information of who actually listens to you (also specific).

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I've already posted them in prior locked LJ entries, which are viewable by BoB, Yams, and Kishi.

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You've left me out?

...you're not EoFF Staff now, last time I looked. I only listed here the Staff members. I'm pretty sure you can see it. :p

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

If you wish, I can PM/email them to you(or you can ask BoB or them, who I give permission here to share anything from my LJ with EoFF Staff). But for now, I'm going to leave those issues at rest.

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I'd prefer that you contact me directly at a time of your choosing! It's a duel, so come alone.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

...you're not EoFF Staff now, last time I looked. I only listed here the Staff members. I'm pretty sure you can see it. :p

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What about me??!?

Oh, and I agree with every post in this thread. Even the ones that disagree with one another.

Oh yes, I did forget you, RSL. <3

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I'd prefer that you contact me directly at a time of your choosing! It's a duel, so come alone.

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Tomorrow, high noon.

I'm actually serious, but if you don't want to show me, I guess you don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I've already posted them in prior locked LJ entries, which are viewable by BoB, Yams, and Kishi.

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Is it me or do all Raistlin's arguments in the Feedback Forum involve locked LJ entries? I think he's just trying to taunt us common folk who aren't on his friends list. Oh now look what's happened, I'm crying. I said I wouldn't but I am. Good job Raist. :whimper:

Go Roogle! *hands Roogle a favour for the duel*

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Is it me or do all Raistlin's arguments in the Feedback Forum involve locked LJ entries? I think he's just trying to taunt us common folk who aren't on his friends list. Oh now look what's happened, I'm crying. I said I wouldn't but I am. Good job Raist.

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Oh no, you've uncovered my plan!

Actually, I just don't to make a public spectacle of things, so I reveal them to a certain few friends, some of whom are on Staff here, and then they can take it up in Staff forum if they feel it's appropriate. Rather good system, if you ask me.

Oh, and I PMed Roogle a part of one of the entries. He's free to ask me for any more details. :p

I think that if you really didn't wish to make a public spectacle of things, Raistlin, you wouldn't keep mentioning your locked LJ entries.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

...you're not EoFF Staff now, last time I looked. I only listed here the Staff members. I'm pretty sure you can see it. :p

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So only EoFF staff count now. I see how it is.

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I think that if you really didn't wish to make a public spectacle of things, Raistlin, you wouldn't keep mentioning your locked LJ entries.

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Oh yes, because saying "locked LJ entries" lets everyone know what I'm talking about.

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So only EoFF staff count now. I see how it is.

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I'm sorry, snookums. Want me to kiss it and make it better? :love:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Oh yes, because saying "locked LJ entries" lets everyone know what I'm talking about.

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It does draw an unnecessary amount of attention to it.

As does questioning my doing so on the forums, if you follow that logic. :p

EDIT: also, "unnecessary amount of attention" to my LJ?

Sometimes saying you're keeping certain things secret in order to not create a public spectacle is the best way to create one. Speculation principle and all that. But don't worry, this stuff is far from public.

I think we'd all do better with a bit more silliness. I'll get right on that.

Didn't you promise us some bad poetry at tGA a while back?

I posted it but it got lost in one of the many server deaths.

I think Wes should post naked pictures of himself alongside those locked entries. That way no one would even care to see what he's been talking about.

Oh yes, because saying "locked LJ entries" lets everyone know what I'm talking about. - Raistlin

If you don't want us to know what you're talking about and you want to keep all information to the elite few, then why keep bringing them up at all? I don't think that you care whether or not we care what you're talking about otherwise you wouldn't be making them locked and then keep bringing the fact up in here. Because if we don't see the entries, we're not going to care (at least I don't) so why you keep bringing them up is beyond me. Unless it's just to get attention for yourself. :)

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Originally Posted by Yamaneko

I think Wes should post naked pictures of himself alongside those locked entries. That way no one would even care to see what he's been talking about.

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Don't give me ideas. :p

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If you don't want us to know what you're talking about and you want to keep all information to the elite few, then why keep bringing them up at all? I don't think that you care whether or not we care what you're talking about otherwise you wouldn't be making them locked and then keep bringing the fact up in here. Because if we don't see the entries, we're not going to care (at least I don't) so why you keep bringing them up is beyond me. Unless it's just to get attention for yourself.

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I didn't say you couldn't know. I said that I let a few of the Staff know, and that they can bring it up with the entire Staff if they feel it's appropriate. Now that you know, and if you're curious, you can either ask me, or the staff members that know. That way, only the people concerned and have input know about it. For instance, Roogle asked me, therefore I PMed him an example. Seems a rather good system, if you ask me.

Thank you for offereing, Raistlin, but no thank you. I have no curiousity as to what goes on in your locked entries. My only curiousity is in why you feel the need to keep bringing them up. :)

If unprompted, I mention them only as it relates to the current discussion. Since you asked, I went into further detail - otherwise, I would have dropped it.

Or you could just, y'know, get a life.

Whatever happened to striking a balance? I imagine what one person might see as something "silly" could be construed by another person as "serious", and it should be up to the rest of us to realize that not all moderators are created equal. It might do us some good, too, just to lighten up.

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

Or you could just, y'know, get a life.

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Blah blah blah blah blah! Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. I can't believe a staffer would say such a thing! What a cruel world this is. I think we need a public applogy in the form of a signature, custom title, avatar and an announcement for 1 week. It is the only way broken hearts can be mended after this incident of DOOM!

I can't hold it back any more :laugh: its late and I thought this was funny.

It's "late" or its "marijuana"?

Shlup, I don't think this is helping...
The issue is "professionalism", after all.

A comment like that doesn't hurt us any more than your avatar does. Completely disgraceful.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

Completely disgraceful.

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Agreed. I love it <3

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

It's "late" or its "marijuana"?

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If only! That would explain so much if I drank and did drugs. But alas, that is no the case. It was 2 AM.

This thread makes me giggle. Well, not really. But I'll say that it does.

You guys are all whack. Why don't you just CUDDLE? Is that really so hard!?!?!?!? Can't we just all... get along?

I really do find the locked LJ entries to be kind of silly, especially since you apparently don't even care who reads them anyway. If you don't care who reads it, why lock it? Crazy!

I however find it helpful because I know when Raistlin makes a locked LJ entry then I should check the Feedback forum so I can see what he's whining about.

I'm so unprofessional but it's okay, all Raistlin needs is some good lovin'. Hop to it, Yams.

EDIT: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=edczxcvbnm ADD ME BACK. ;_;

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Shlup, I don't think this is helping...
The issue is "professionalism", after all.

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That doesn't bother me, D. A joke is a joke - if staff is allowed to joke around, then they're going to end up offending someone eventually. In that case, if a member is offended by a joke, they can PM the staffer and say that it offended them, and then the staff member can apologize for offending and say they only meant it as a joke, and then they can get together for a hug and go out and get drunk.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

A comment like that doesn't hurt us any more than your avatar does. Completely disgraceful.

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xDDDDD

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Blah blah blah blah blah! Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. I can't believe a staffer would say such a thing! What a cruel world this is. I think we need a public applogy in the form of a signature, custom title, avatar and an announcement for 1 week. It is the only way broken hearts can be mended after this incident of DOOM!

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I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN MY EXTRA LONG BLUE CUSTOM TITLE AND WILL NOT LET THIS GO UNTIL I HAVE IT!!!!

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I really do find the locked LJ entries to be kind of silly, especially since you apparently don't even care who reads them anyway. If you don't care who reads it, why lock it? Crazy!

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Of course I care who reads it - otherwise I wouldn't lock it. In this case, I locked it so I could handle the issue individually via PM. You know what happens when I don't lock this kind of criticism - one of them got past 100 comments! Though most of it was you and me snuggling in the back corner.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

EDIT: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=edczxcvbnm ADD ME BACK. ;_;

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I don't post anything or even go to LJ. I signed up so I could read(on occasion) Krystal's LJ entries. I can add you but I have never even looked at my page or added an entry to my account.

Okay you guys can officially shut up.

The topic is still being argued so, no, we don't need to shut up.
*Re-open*

This entire thread is turning into the living embodiment of what the topic is about - on the one hand, there's a serious discussion of how members believe staff should behave; on the other hand, there are staff who are intent on doing whatever pleases them, regardless.
Balance, anyone?

I agree you need checks and balances in any sort of `law´ making environment but those checks and balances should be beliefs and not practiced if against the current rules.

I don't know what thread you're looking at, D, but I don't see any "serious discussion" about anything other than shutting up. And I don't know what staff you're talking about, but if you have a problem then you should say so in the staff forum. We musn't argue in front of the children.

Mommy and Daddy are fighting :(

*cries*

:crying2:

Otherwise we'll see who are real mommies and daddies are - drunk, lazy hobos.

EDIT: In response to Shlup

Oh, and in response to Big D: I think people have commonly misinterpretted what I mean by "professional." By being professional in Feedback, I mean "don't be mocking, patronizing, condescending, or derogatory to the members." That's it. I have nothing against spam, jokes, pranks, or fun at all.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Oh, and in response to Big D: I think people have commonly misinterpretted what I mean by "professional." By being professional in Feedback, I mean "don't be mocking, patronizing, condescending, or derogatory to the members." That's it. I have nothing against spam, jokes, pranks, or fun at all.

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That's what I mean. This thread was intended to get some serious feedback about what members like or expect from forum staffers, but rather than pay any attention it seems that some of EoFF's own staff would rather belittle or silence what 'outspoken oldbies' have got to say...
Rather sad, really.

EDIT BY BoB: *yoink* But seriously, guys, RSL is right, keep it in private, take it to the staff forum or whatever.

Don't act like you're not just as bad in the staff forum. Are you saying its okay for all of us to mock people behind their backs, but not where they can read it? Nice.

"Belittle or silence what 'outspoken oldbies'" indeed. What was it you said about these same people in the staff forum when we were discussing swearing?

Don't quote me in the Staff Forum, please. ~D

And that's not even the worst of it. Don't be hypocritical.

...

Fine, forget it.

If you can't even gather feedback and take it for what it is, then I'll just take care of it myself.

If anyone wants to continue the original point of this thread, they can feel free to make a new thread or something, this one has gone a little off topic. :p

*cuddles everyone*