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OK.. I might have just been a little slow on this but... is Vincent immortal?????? Because in Advent Children (offical site) it says Vincent is still 27, even though it's been two years since the game.. So did like all that mako energy do something to him....? Also, if he is immortal, can he be killed? I've played through FFVII 4 times but still can't figure it out!
Yes, he's immortal. However, that only means that he's immortal in the sense that he doesn't age but isn't invincible. He can be killed.
(SPOILER)As for why, we don't know that Mako or JENOVA Cells were imbued into his body. The game doesn't tell us. All we know is that he died when he was shot by Hojo and that he was resurrected through Hojo's experimentation, with him not aging since.
Oh.. it would be cooler if he coulnd't be killed... but what was it that made him immortal?? (still in question)
Highlight the part of my Post above marked "Spoiler." Basically, we don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibsonGoth131
You note that he's 27 in the original game. That means that he hadn't aged in 30 or so years prior to the game, not just in the two years between the game and AC. Vincent was an adult (and a member of the Turks) well before Sephiroth was even born. I would speculate the Vincent's immortality is at least partially due to the Jenova cells. It was because of the Jenova that Lucrecia could not die easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by GibsonGoth131
It's unlikely that this is the sole cause, however, since many other people were injected with Jenova, and showed nothing resembling a stop to the aging process. Since Vincent was killed and resurrected by Hojo, however, his physiology is certainly unusual enough that immortality requires no great stretch of the imagination.Quote:
Vincent: Lucrecia... You're alive...
Lucrecia: I wanted to disappear... I couldn't be with anyone... I wanted to
die... But the Jenova inside me wouldn't let me die...
Vincent's story is rather complicating but good never the less.
Vincent was a former turk as told who fell in love with a specimen from Shinra. He tried to stop her from going through the process that she was going through and fought with hojo. Supposedly Hojo shot him in the arm at great force damaging his arm completely. So in theory Vincent had the same surgery as Barret, but with a Metal Claw instead. After Hojo experiments on him, he puts Vincent to sleep. And it's suspected to be over 30 years. (as Sephiroth is 35 during the game). But the experiments which Hojo did on Vincent has been a theory to have created his "Immortality" and his ability to change into demons and monsters as his limit breaks.
That's all I know I'm afraid :)
Cloud had Jenova cells he aged
it must have been something different to what that mad scientist must have done
Hojo shot him full on in the chest and Vincent died. I imagine that -- as a Turk -- Vincent would have had a higher resistance to pain and mortality than taking a shot in the arm and passing out or dying.Quote:
Originally Posted by xlxRenoxlx
As for the claw, it looks like nothing more than a gauntlet, especially in the Dirge of Cerberus scans where the metal grafted onto what appears to be black leather is more pronounced.
it probably just covers his arm as it maybe distorted from the experimentations
I think immortals a bad way of putting it. I think saying he doesnt age gives a better idea.
but unaging is part of immortality
vincent is semi immortal
Quasi immortal
the diet coke of Immortal
one calorie of immortal
just not immortal enough to be immortal
Poor Vinnie!Well...Here's what I think.
(SPOILER)Maybe Vincent's demons did it.Y'know,the limit break ones.Hojo also could've done something else that no one's metioned/thought of yet.
Even if he doesn't physically age, he will still age from a technical standpoint. Even if no change occurs, after a year passes, you are one year older. Period. Im not sure why he doesn't age. Doesn't make much sense to me.
Me neither. I mean, He does have a birthday. But he still looks as he did when he was 27, that doesn't mean... he IS 27. 30 year's later, he's 57 technically I guess. Just he doesn't look it. I mean. Look at Red XIII he was 48 years old yet he was still mentally a 16 year old. (SPOILER) "Bugenhagen: Ho Ho Hoooo. Nanaki's tribe has incredible longevity. So
you see his 48 years would only be equivalent to say that of a 15 or 16
years old in human reckoning."
I believe that Vincent's lack of aging, could possibly be to resemble a vampire. He's in a coffin and basically looks asif he holds darkness within his heart. Cold. His demon limit breaks.
If anyone's ever been interested in the theory of vampires they'd know that vampires dont age a day. They live a long eternal life, look the same, and their only flaw is they have to drink blood. I think that Vincent characteristics resemble vampires in general, to give him a more scary, yet cold look about himself.
i bet vincents jst an actor dats over dramatic and wears to much make up thats why he looks immortal bt dats jst me
lol If that was the case then square have really REALLY got to put their image expectations up. An over dramatic character, with immortal qualities, they have to have some sort of moral behind it.
he blew his cover in nibelhelm so he had 2 run away frm Shinra so he locked himself up in the coffin bt cloud n co found him
We know that's not true lolol. Vincent was placed there in that coffin by Hojo if I recall. After Hojo conducted his experiments. Scary thought really.. How did Vincent manage to survive without Water or food for 30 years? :P
he ate the rats that managed to knaw their way into the coffin
How could he do that if he was asleep?? :P You did know he was asleep right lol?
Vincent Sleeping Beauty!
Cloud...... = Kiss of life !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH... omg omg omg.. Ewwwww
Good job it wasn't Reno mmmm <3 <3 <3
lol well hes gota wake up sumtime in the period of 30 yrs aint he??? mebbe cloud caught him on his nap afta having a nice triple rat sandwich?
lol Nice idea's but I highly doubt it :P
we all like to think up alternate thoeries makes it more interesting then
I know. I think its fun to see what other people think. It gets a little out of hand when people moan about it tho :(
Vincent couldn't have been sleeping too deeply if someone just walking into the room would wake him up. The razing of Nibelheim 5 years before should have done so, as well, I would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by xlxRenoxlx
dats cz dey hav no fun...i wudnt have ne fun if i woz locked up in a coffin for 30 yrs by sum stupid scientist dude
I think Square intended for him to wake up from a "long sleep".Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD
Vincent: Hmph... a nightmare...? My long sleep has given me time to
atone.
Also, I'd think that if Vincent had the opportunity to wake, he would have left the Shinra Mansion when he had the chance, as they were attempting to escape according to the fingernail scratchings on the beaker in the Library, also in the reports of their experimentation.
I believe it was Square's intention to make it so he was asleep for a long time, sort of like an eternal slumber or something. I could be wrong, but yet it's only a theory.
Also it indicates in Vincent's questioning to Cloud after Cloud explains his story, makes it seem like he was unaware of any activity. Fire can be smelt and noticed from a distance, and seeing as the town was in flames, he would hardly have not noticed it if he was awake.
Good question. To the best of my knowledge, the game never really tells you if Vincent ever ate or drank during his 30 year stay in the Nibelheim mansion. Perhaps that's another effect that Hojo's experimentation had on Vincent...?Quote:
Originally Posted by xlxRenoxlx
(SPOILER)I don't believe he would have left if he just could have. He'll even stay there if you don't talk to him again after telling him about Sephiroth and will ask you to leave after you speak with him the first time. The dialogue with him suggests that he viewed staying there and sleeping as his punishment:Quote:
Originally Posted by xlxRenoxlx
(SPOILER)By the way, the scratches in those large cylinders were made by Cloud and Zack, not Vincent.Quote:
(SPOILER)Vincent
"There was no way to cancel the experiment."
"I couldn't stop her."
"That was my sin."
"I let the one I loved, the one I respected most, face the worst."
Tifa
"So the punishment was sleep? That's weird."
As far as it goes, if he were able to wake up before they came there, there's not really anything that could have held him there. A wooden door wouldn't have stood up to Galian Beast, I imagine, nor would its lock have likely held up under a few gunshots. It all depends on whether or not one believes Cloud woke him from a sleep he couldn't escape on his own, I suppose, but considering that Cloud didn't really do anything but walk around the room, there's little reason to believe it was the case in my opinion.
In all honesty, I don't believe Vincent was in that room for thirty years, but only five. Vincent was still wearing his Turk outfit after Hojo's experimentation was complete (refer to the flashback seen in Lucrecia's cave), and Hojo was nowhere around. For that matter, with the enhanced abilities Vincent should have had at that time, I imagine he would have tore Hojo apart on sight before willingly allowing him to place him in that room.
Further, I doubt Hojo gave Vincent that red and black outfit. The gauntlet in particular makes me doubt this, as the gauntlet's design suggests it would not only function as an offensive weapon with those claws, but the curved plating on the side would allow it to also function as armor to deflect attacks. For that matter, I can't imagine Vincent agreeing to wear anything given to him by Hojo.
I personally believe he wasn't placed in that room until five after Sephiroth's massacre in Nibelheim when Hojo arrived and was having Shin-Ra soldiers round up the survivors of the massacre for experimentation. Perhaps Vincent attempted to stop them and was then incapacitated. That would go along with Hojo's note concerning Vincent saying that he wouldn't allow anyone to interfere in his research, "not even that one from the Turks." Though I suppose that the argument could be made that the words as easily fit when Hojo shot him and experimented on him thirty years before.
Anyway, that's just my theory. It's not all that strongly supported by the game, but it does explain things like why Vincent was in that room and wearing that outfit when he woke up thirty years before wearing his Turk outfit and with Hojo nowhere in sight.
Yup Very true. I still think that Vincent's image could be passed off as vampiric tho :D me = <3 Vampires. Well not literally, but I find the whole concept of them interesting and very incredibly strange. I am one of those who likes to read books, and my main books that I love are Silence of the lambs, Bram Stoker's Dracula and Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, these books are my high priority and due to the amount of times I read Dracula I find the whole idea of them powerful and creative. Especially how they are portrayed in many films and tv programs. Vincent's gloom and unhuman like presence surely passes on some vampiric similarities. Again only a theory, but a valid point is it not?
I theorize that Vincent wasn't inside that coffin from the time of the experimentation. I believe that he had wandered off and possibly killed some people while in some state of delirium before he returned to his senses and to the Mansion he'd confine himself to. I think that he was perhaps injured in a fight and then sheltered by caretakers shortly before his return which would explain his outfit and his metal gauntlet. I think that while his mind was still plagued with the nightmares of Hojo's atrocities and the project he couldn't stop Lucrecia from participating in, he wandered into that room and climbed into the coffin as if sleepwalking.Quote:
Vincent was placed there in that coffin by Hojo if I recall.
Yeah, an Eternal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Destai
I personally don't take it that far despite believing he wasn't placed in the coffin for the entire duration of those thirty years. I would assume he just got his outfit from rags and junk laying around the Mansion, myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-X
As far as getting in the coffin goes, though, I would say Hojo did place him there, as Hojo's letter says he put Vincent to sleep in the basement.
mst be sum heavy ass big tranq if it makes a guy/vamp so 2 sleep 4 30 yrs i wuda used cyrogenics (however you spell it)
Yes. Put him to sleep . . . but they don't say where in the basement. It could've easily been on that table in there near the mako tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by SquallofSeeD
Or maybe Hojo was just so conceited of his talents, he thought that Vincent would become a monster he could control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD
Rags in the basement? He looks pretty cool to be dressed in rags. I wonder where he got that wicked claw.
The origin of Vincent's gauntlet will, I hope, be addressed by a title in the Compilation (maybe Dirge of Cerberus).
Then why was the purpose of the clues offered to decipher the safe, which reveals the key to the crypt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-X
Vincent was a member of the Turks. He was infused with Jenova cells which is what accounts for his Limit breaks. In the game it mentions that the ancients that were infected with the Jenova disease turned into raging monsters. He was married to Lucretia. Lucretia was pregnant during the time of Hojo's experimentations with Hojo's baby. Vincent let Hojo inject his unborn child with Jenova cells (that was within his wife). This child was Sephiroth. The sin that Vincent mentions he needs to attone for is Sephiroth getting injected like that. Hojo is in fact Sephiroths father. Somewhere along the line Vincent decided against this experiment and Hojo shot him. Knowing that Vincent was injected with Jenova cells he knew it wouldn't kill him so he put him in the coffin underneath the Shinra Mansion. Vincent could have left earlier but didn't. When Cloud sees him Vincent decides that maybe it is time he did something about it so thats why he joins the group.
EOFF History lesson
Vincent loved Lucrecia, true, but she did not accept his proposal. Actually, there is no evidence in the game that Lucrecia (who loved Hojo) reciprocated Vincent's love at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Hojo, in all likelihood, did kill Vincent with the shot. Said Jenova experimentation certainly happened after this, and it probably played a role in Vincent's resuscitation. This strange revival explains why Vincent is ageless, even though other individuals with Jenova cells are not. There is no question, however, that Vincent had no previous Jenova cell injections before being shot. He was a Turk, not a member of SOLDIER.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
I don't rememebr that at all. It might be there and I just don't remember. Where did that come from.Quote:
Lucrecia (who loved Hojo)
The game ctually doesn't mention if he was killed or not. To me it makes more since that he was severly wounded and then was injected with the Jenova cells. They kept him alive and also slowed his aging severly or possibly stopped it. I just to far ahead of myself with posting that last thing. It was meant to be He injected him and knowing it wouldn't kill him...Quote:
Hojo, in all likelihood, did kill Vincent with the shot. Said Jenova experimentation certainly happened after this, and it probably played a role in Vincent's resuscitation.
I don't think there's anything substantial to suggest that Hojo injected Vince with Jenova cells. That's been debated before, though.
Yes, in the archived thread I linked to, but his limits being "raging monsters" and Cetra infected with the Jenova Virus turning into raging monsters leads me to belive he was, as I stated in that thread.Quote:
I don't think there's anything substantial to suggest that Hojo injected Vince with Jenova cells. That's been debated before, though.
When Vincent encounters Lucrecia in the waterfall cave, we see a flashback that includes Lucrecia apparently crying and running away after Vincent attempts to give her something, which I can only presume is an engagement ring. Immediately after (in terms of flashback), we see Hojo and Lucrecia kissing. Vincent responds to this by saying, "If she is happy then...I don't mind." That whole scene is hidden, so it's relatively easy to forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Okay, fair enough. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Yeah, I've seen it but just forgot :(Quote:
That whole scene is hidden, so it's relatively easy to forget.
None of this explains Vincent's awesome gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Vincent never mentioned any union between he and Lucretia. Lucretia never mentioned any union between she and Hojo. I've already seen that part where she talks about the exp but I don't remember her mentioning anything about love. She was devoted to Hojo and his work. Vincent admired and loved Lucretia from afar like a loyal knight. He tried to reason with Lucretia about the exp, he never said anything about professing his love for her.
I don't recall anything in the game mentioning the J-Cells having a Lazarus effect (resurrection) on the dearly departed as it's been suggested by one in this thread.
As has been established, Vincent and Lucrecia were not married. He loved her. She didn't love him and loved Hojo. That case is closed.
As for the matter of Vincent's death, the Ehrgeiz instruction booklet says that he died. It being a game that Tetsuya Nomura also worked on, as well as considering the nature of Vincent's wound (a gunshot to the chest) and that he is now ageless, it seems likely to me that he died and was brought back to life through experimentation, as the Ehrgeiz booklet says:
Quote:
An ex-gunman of the Shinra Intelligence Sector (The Turks) who has had a dark past and was put to sleep in the Shinra Mansion. After being killed by someone within the Shinra Mansion, Vincent underwent anatomic reconstruction, and was brought back to life. He now possesses new and improved abilities beyond those of normal men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-X
The fact that Vincent tried to offer her the ring is pretty much indicative of the fact that he loved her. Similarly, Lucrecia wouldn't have been kissing Hojo if she didn't love him, a fact attested to by Vincent's line "If she is happy then....I don't mind."Quote:
Originally Posted by masamune1600
As to Vincent not expressing love for Lucrecia when Hojo prepares for the Jenova injection, he was certainly looking out for her best interests. As he had said earlier, however, the most important thing to him was that Lucrecia be happy. This would have even outweighed the two of them being together, and might explain he didn't pursue the Jenova issue further than he did at that particular time.
1: I was merely saying that none of these three were ever MARRIED, especially not Vincent and Hojo (:laughing:That there's a joke, son). You people are assuming too much based on what you're seeing as opposed to what you've read. You cannot honestly ascertain anything simply by looking at the screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by masamune1600
2: The information given about the FF characters in Ehrgeiz is incomplete, inaccurate, and unreliable. Despite the fact that Tetsuya Nomura was involved in the game, it does not make their appearances any less a cameo than their appearances in KH. I, of course, know that Tifa and Vincent were not in KH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD
The only information there that I would regard as inaccurate is that given about Cloud, which is obviously intentionally inaccurate so as to not spoil the major aspect of VII's plot involving the truth of his past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-X
In any event, I'm not talking about their appearances at all. Just the information in the booklet.
By appearance, I mean the fact that they are there in Ehrgeiz.
One of the things that separates a video game from a book with no pictoral components is the fact that some information is necessarily conveyed via graphical display. If you were to analyze FFVII based solely on the script, you would be able to ascertain quite a bit of information, but you would also miss out on a lot, including a number of critical elements. Certain ideas were obviously intended to be suggested by means of graphical representation, as is the case in all video games (text adventures aside). This fact applies here. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-X
First, your side-splitting jokes make me feel all tingly inside. I think you are my new best friend. Second, you're right; these people are assuming too much (even though they never suggested Hojo and Lucrecia marrying... yeah..)! These simpletons know nothing, X. We are beyond them. Your FF7 theories are so well thought-out and plausible, that I think you should present them as fact, rather than theories! Really. You are amazing. I think we should start an FF7 site where you can post your wonderful theories. Please?Quote:
1: I was merely saying that none of these three were ever MARRIED, especially not Vincent and Hojo (That there's a joke, son). You people are assuming too much based on what you're seeing as opposed to what you've read. You cannot honestly ascertain anything simply by looking at the screen.
SO TRUE!Quote:
2: The information given about the FF characters in Ehrgeiz is incomplete, inaccurate, and unreliable. Despite the fact that Tetsuya Nomura was involved in the game, it does not make their appearances any less a cameo than their appearances in KH. I, of course, know that Tifa and Vincent were not in KH.
Whether they were married or not the game specifically states it was their baby.Quote:
(even though they never suggested Hojo and Lucrecia marrying... yeah..)!
Nobody's debating that.
Mercy and Luthy: :beer: How's this? Do you have another preference? Perhaps :kiss: or :lovers: . . . they don't have a plutonic smilie aside from that first one but you're not old enough to drink . . . neither am I but I actually don't plan to drink next year when I am old enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthien Rogue
I want to work alongside Square Enix. I want to create my own company for games and have the staff at Square Enix as my friends and colleagues, collaborating on various undertakings that are destined to change the world in no small way. They would no doubt be blinded my brilliance as well. hehehehe. I'm damn conceited.
I still want to know how people plan to thwart my theory of him taking leave of the mansion in a state of dilirium. Who (and why) would say that Hojo gave Vincent his gear?
[Edited for misunderstanding.]
...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercen-X
Yeah, that what I said.Quote:
Except it doesn't, instead specifically stating that it was Hojo and Lucrecia's baby
Ah, right. Sorry. Looked at the wrong Post, then saw yours. My apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Actually, the in-game script would have included all the graphical scenes as a script isn't restricted to dialogue. However, scanning through the treatment for all graphical work would resolve any mystery that was born onscreen.Quote:
Originally Posted by masamune1600
I've worked on screenplays quite a lot in Film Class, which is I why I act like such a smartie. :D
Script was intended as pure dialogue; this relates to your original idea that all that is depicted graphically can be discarded. A script that exists in that detail (with a full graphical explanation) doesn't seem to be available to the public. If one looks to any game translation or script available on the Internet, one will find the dialogue, and descriptions of the game based on interpretation of the graphics. Visual displays cannot be discounted.
I've never actually read any script for the game . . . outside the game that is.
I've never seen any other video game that has so much debate surrounding it. Even after so many years :D
I myself haven't played it since 2002.
ok Vincent doesnt die of natural causes but can be killed is that a good way of putting it
Yes, supposedly. We don't really know if he can die but thats what it seems like.
If you're referring to being shot, I still don't know if that killed him, but he was normal then.
If you're referring to dying in combat, no one actually "dies" in combat, they're simply rendered unconcious, hence the term "KO."
"Game Over" has always confused me as not EVERY member of your collective party has been KO'd in combat, there are still some wandering around elsewhere. I suppose it would be that the wandering members are too far away to stop whatever creature you're fighting from killing you once you're disabled.
Just keep in mind that game mechanics have no bearing on the game's reality with the exception of dialogue. That makes things a lot less confusing.
Crackpot theory:
If Vincent is eternal (best name for his condition that i read yet), and he doesnt age, Then it is possible his cells dont age either. This could account for why he didnt have to eat while asleep for 30 years (lets assume he was actually asleep for that long).
Explination:
(Disclaimer: This explination may seem slightly inacurate, but I do it in hopes of making it more understandable)
After the human body has finished all of its growth phases, It stays at a constant state. Cells are still seperating and creating new ones. Not a rate suitable for growth but a rate that sustains the body. In fact after this point your body rarely starts producing large quantity of cells short of a healing process. A body grows old as the splitting cells that make up the various parts of the body age themselves (everything wears down). Thus, even when they continue to split they are splitting into aged cells which are not as good as the original young healthy cells that made up the body. After a certain point a cell dies, it is replaced by the replication of others. As stated before, however the replicating cells are also aged to begin with. this creates the downward spiral we call aging. All that having been explained, Vincents cells may no longer have aged, If they werent aging they may not have been dying, atleast not a noticeable rate. In this situation he would retain his youthfull appearance. Now (back in the aging world) as cells replicate they need a constant source of materials and energy (Matter cant come from nothing) We ingest food, both as a source for materials and to convert it into energy. Vincent no longer being restrained by the rules, could conceivably go long periods without eating. More so if he was asleep the whole time when the body is in a even more reccesive state.
Anyway, after that long boring explination that wasnt really neccesary, I feel its important to end on A high note: "One by one the penguins steal my sanity!"