Promoting peace and tolerance.

I recently pm'ed a fellow EoFF'er (Iri Valentine) about something that I feel is very important. War (Or at least a large degree of political hostility and resentment) between the USA and China is imminent. In the United States, the media is already reporting on the growing 'threat' posed by China, and according to Iri, anti American propaganda is also circulating around China, and other countries as well. I will post my a few of the PM's I sent to Iri to give you an idea of what I want to do.

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Alright, I don't know your stance on things but I personally hate war. It is possible that my country(USA), and China could be in a war with each other sometime within the next 50 years. War is allowed to be waged because of propoganda, and nationalism. Im probably not being clear so I think i'll just cut to the chase here.

What if, there was say, an organization, that existed to help spread a message of peace, unity, and tolerance to the people of China and the USA? If there was a way to convince the American people, and the Chinese people that there was no real difference between them then war would be less likely, if not impossible. I am saying this because you are currently in China, and I think it would be great if there was a way for me or you to start an organization like this. I understand if you are not interested, but if you are, say so. Maybe something could be worked out? Who knows?

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To which she replied :
Don't worry, I completely agree with you. Would you be willing to do this sort of thing? And where did this idea come from?

I then sent her another pm. These are it's contents:

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Of course I would be willing to do this. The question is, HOW would I be able to go about doing this, or get this idea rolling. Know what I mean?

As for this idea and where it came from.. Well, I was on my bus on the way home from school thinking about things. How it sucks that the world works the way it does: War, violence, greed, hate. I was thinking about how I was powerless because politicians would never listen, and I was thinking about how sad it is that im going to grow up and become like every other apathetic adult.

Then I thought about something you posted in a thread at EoFF. You said something about Chinese people saying "down with the USA" etc. That worried me because it means that the anti USA propoganda is already working. Being in the USA myself, I can see the begining of a propagnda campaign against China. And then it occured to me that no matter what, a war would be impossible to start if the people of our two countries did not want it. Then I realized that if I could spread my own propaganda promoting tolerance, peace, unity, etc. I would be taking steps to stop war and political hostility without even having to challenge politicians directly. The only problem is, is that I have no idea how to go about doing this. All I know is that if I get an opportunity, I might as well take it.

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So what do you all think about this?

My biggest problems are that I don't know WHERE to start. How do I go about doing something like this? Idea's and suggestions would be most helpful. Thanks all.

If you have already read this peice of information in the other thread about the end of time, then you can skip ahead now.
But if you haven't, this is vital information.

This... is frightening.
Most of you will not understand the situation he is describing. But I have lived in 5 seperate countries, and trust me, this is becoming closer to evident every day.
In the country I am in now, it is growing rapidly. The US dollar and UK Pounds are going down and protests are becoming more common. Being a foreigner is getting more dangerous, and people will spit on your shoes and call you names. US flags are regularly burned.
In London, a place I also lived in, there are protests held, and large masses of people go on long walks with US flags underneath thier feet, posters claiming death to the USA and screams of defiance.
Now, I look just a little asian, as I am half Japanese. So I don't really look American in most circumstances.
But at some protests, if they had seen my passport...
I might be dead.

That was a post I had placed a little earlier, but it seems like it belongs here instead.
If it hasn't come to your attention already, this is a serious threat to some of the world powers (US and UK)
China, if decided to go to war with the US, could kill us. Thier army is vast and well equipped. Training is becoming more of a high standard; even non-militia training is of highest stance. For instance, around my compound (en enclosed area of houses that is guarded; every one in China with over ten US dollars lives in one) the guards are EXTREMELY strict and well trained.
I am NOT over-reacting on this matter.
Please think on the seriousness of this.

Well I guess I'll ask, what can I do? It never occured to me that anyone was strong enough to dominate the U.S. but with the population it seems entirely possible.

Actaully, I hear A LOT more against Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. than China, so I really don't know where you are getting that in particular. We probably will have another major ME war within 3 years.

On the China thing -- we'd probably end up in a nuke war if we were to fight China. We just simply don't have enough people to fight China in a conventional war, as they have like 3 times the population. I'm pretty confident that we won't fight a war with China because of the current focus on the ME. We'll make some noises if China decides to annex Taiwan and Hong Kong, but we aren't going to do much more than that.

Iran and all those other countries are barely a threat to us.
China is immense, and the USA is only STARTED to notice the protests and sorts of things that happen here.
So I figure you're going to hear more about it soon.
China has already annexed HK and Taiwan. Just not... in a ceremonial way.

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On the China thing -- we'd probably end up in a nuke war if we were to fight China. We just simply don't have enough people to fight China in a conventional war, as they have like 3 times the population. I'm pretty confident that we won't fight a war with China because of the current focus on the ME.

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The wars we have in the middle east are directly related to china.

I am not sure that we will be fighting an all out war anytime soon, but a cold war is possible. In fact, the approach the Bush administration is taking is like that. In a way, it's like defeating one country by invading smaller ones.

I haven't been abroad, but I disagree with the idea that the US doesn't understand what's going on in China. Just because the public at large isn't focused on it, doesn't mean there aren't governmental ... "interests" in the country.

However, the anti-American violence and protests I have no trouble believing at all. I'm hoping the rest of America will realize the name it's making for itself with it's ultra conservative style, smarten up, and break up the power a little more evenly.

And honestly, I would say that would be the first step in any sort of organizational efforts. Rather than starting your own, however, I would suggest joining up with other organizations that already promote international peace and work to make a subsection with your specific goals in mind. That way, you already have a name to work with. Starting from scratch with such testy issues will often lead you nowhere, especially with your age working against you.

I'd be ecstatic if the USA was still a living nation in 50 years.

I've already predicted that we'd be squashed in about 30.

I mean, we're freaking considered to be one of the strongest nations in the world, if not the only superpowerful dominating nation of all the world. It stands to reason that we'll have a lot of enemies who are doing there utmost, and probably successfully, to make themselves powerful enough to cream our pompous killer asses.

But Nik, I think that your proposal is't very necessary or even very logical.
We'll deal with this when the hammer falls. You know how impossible it is to deal with a mob. And with one the size of China or as stubborn as the USA... Forget it.

We'll clash when we clash. Besides, isn't China still closer to communism than democracy?

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But Nik, I think that your proposal is't very necessary or even very logical.
We'll deal with this when the hammer falls. You know how impossible it is to deal with a mob. And with one the size of China or as stubborn as the USA... Forget it.

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I don't see eye to eye with you here. If you could get the people to realize that we are all humans, and that we all deserve each others respect, then I don't think either of our two governments could wage much of a war, and political hostility would be reduced, if not eliminated.

I don't want to have to deal with China later, because dealing with them later means people are going to die. If we confront this problem now, not as angry citizens, or as politicans, but as compassionate human beings, I think violence can be prevented.

I'd say the biggest impediment to China going to war with the US is the Chinese culture of independence/isolationism. The Chinese nature is not to go out and fight others abroad. In order for a real US-China war to break out, the US would have to invade China, and that'd be pretty moronic.

I don't think China or any other superpower wants to take down the US, they just want to be respected as equals.

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I don't think China or any other superpower wants to take down the US, they just want to be respected as equals.

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I have to disagree with you. Governments don't want respect, they want power. China is rapidly gaining that power. The US does not want to lose power to the Chinese, and thus, a conflict of some sort will ensue. I am not saying that we will invade China. I believe that someday, our two forces will meet on a different front. We will fight over something, but the odds of either country actually invading the other is slim.

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

The wars we have in the middle east are directly related to china.

I am not sure that we will be fighting an all out war anytime soon, but a cold war is possible. In fact, the approach the Bush administration is taking is like that. In a way, it's like defeating one country by invading smaller ones.

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Well, the wars in ME are based on 3 things:

Supporting Israel
Terrorism
Oil

At least from what I can see. The only one that China could play a role in is Oil, unless Al-Qaida is a Chinese front group (which doesn't make sense as Al-Qaida is as anti-communism as it is anti-Western). A cold war is possible, but we seem to be ignoring NK pretty much, which I wouldn't think would happen should we actually want a confrontation with China.

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Originally Posted by Gnostic Yevon

unless Al-Qaida is a Chinese front group

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They will be once the war is on.
The american government know their Hitler.
"The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category."

Considering China's attitude towards Taiwan, and the United State's attitude towards protecting/helping Taiwan, an agressive act from China could very well start a war.

Soviet Union will CRUSH u ALL!!!
j/king

I think the U.S. will stop somewhere short of war with China. Thats definately not a war we want to fight. But as China's defiance grows, and they keep setting their own dollar, and making it unfair for the world market, tensions with China are heating up in the U.S. especially about the loss of jobs.

I still doubt the U.S. would go to war without the full support of the world. I mean this isnt Iraq, this war would be gritty and long. Because neither would use nukes with M.A.D. (Mutally Assured Destruction). Plus i dont see the U.S. folding to China either.

I think the Chinese-middle East relation is to do with selling weapons. no offense to anyone, but in World Issues, our teacher told us that China sells a lot of arms to other countries, especially the countries that do not have a good rep, with the US. If I remeber correctly, they sell arms to Pakistan, Iran (not too sure), *forgets rest*...

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

Like previously said, if there is a conflict between these two powers, it will result in and Third World War, which would lead to nuclear war. I do hope for peace between these powers. Not only for the world's sake but for my countries. Because if there was to be a war, China, with the Russian permission of course could attack Canada, and Alaska from the north. I really do hope for peace, though I am sitting here idlely in Canada, hoping and not doing anything. (It is time like these that I gain a self-loathing feeling).

Nik, if you want to truly make a difference, make a lasting impact that can profoundly influence this country, or the world at large, have it begin within you. Live a life devoted to tolerance and peace, as you have said you try to, and don't let anyone change you or force you otherwise. As you move on in your life and encounter more and more people, you will be given the chance to influence how the look at something or believe in a cause, by how you do the same. Make known what you believe to be the truth of the situation, and make known that the potential outcome of war is not one that will benefit anyone in the long run.

To live a life devoted to the ideals of peace and tolerance is a life that will be empowered, a life that will find great strength and will slowly but surely find its calling as others may seek you out, to emulate you or just to pick your brain a bit.

Should you want a more ambitious track, use your strengths to get your message out. Use your love of music to write songs preaching the virtues of tolerance and of peace and should you gain the ability to share these songs with others, never doubt their power or your resolve within them.

Perhaps, become a writer or even, though it may not seem ideal right now, a politician or activist, so that you can really jump into the fire itself and start making changes from within or from an informed point of view. No matter what, if you feel you must do something, then by all means, do it, and do it with all your heart. There are far too many half-hearted attempts at change, or trying to pass something else off as tolerance that the real article needs to be expressed more.

In all, each and every person has the ability to profoundly influence the world by influencing, by teaching, by learning and by seeking out the truth, both for themselves and for those they come into contact with. Sure, some may not listen, but most, if not all people, deep down, do wish to make the world a better place, do wish to know the truth of a situation, and will, when it all comes to a head, be willing to hear what others have to say. If any of us are fortunate enough to gain prominence in a way where out voice can reach even more people, always keep in mind that power and influence can change the world in great, great ways if used for the benefit of all, not just for the gain of some.

Take care all.

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Originally Posted by CloudSquallandZidane

Soviet Union will CRUSH u ALL!!!
j/king

I think the U.S. will stop somewhere short of war with China. Thats definately not a war we want to fight. But as China's defiance grows, and they keep setting their own dollar, and making it unfair for the world market, tensions with China are heating up in the U.S. especially about the loss of jobs.

I still doubt the U.S. would go to war without the full support of the world. I mean this isnt Iraq, this war would be gritty and long. Because neither would use nukes with M.A.D. (Mutally Assured Destruction). Plus i dont see the U.S. folding to China either.

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MAD was only with Russia. USA is currently working on a missle defense system, as the treaty is technically no longer in effect. And secondly, depending on who is in power at the time, we really don't care all that much about the rest of the world. In fact, for many conservatives, any attempt to get the world community on board is considered "cowtowing to the UN" or "letting the UN dictate how america defends itself". People with such attitudes are not going to even slow down because the rest of the world isn't behind them. So if such thoughts are prevelent when China starts to provoke the US.

At any rate, I think America is probably in for a very rude awakening. We seem to be going the same way Rome did in many areas.

http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/...4romefell.html

Tell me where the stories of America and Rome differ.

Oddly enough this reminds me of the game Fallout. In there WWIII erupted and ended in a matter of hours with a great deal of the population dead. The reason was the depletion of resources, The U.S. annexed Canada while China invaded Alaska. Frankly I worry more about a conflict with North Korea. Bush has been taking an aggressive stance with them, and the Kim Jong Il has made it plain that they won't be intimidated.

I did not intend this thread to be a debate about whether or not China and the US will be enemies. The goal of this thread was to discuss the idea of a group of people or an organization that spreads the idea's of understanding and unity to the people of the world, in hopes of preventing future conflicts. I shouls have made this clear earlier. If you want to start a thread about the US China Relationshp, please do so, but let's not talk about it in here.

I would imagine that most future conflicts that major powers get into wouldn't be amongst themselves, but as peacekeeping forces for disputes between smaller countries, or in the war on terror. I don't see the U.S. and China getting into a war sometime in the near future...I haven't seen any of the "anti-China propaganda" that's supposedly going around, only information concerning human rights violations that's been circulating for quite some time. If there was a war between two major powers, I would expect that it would develop into World War III, but I don't know about the likelyhood of the use of nuclear weapons...surely, all parties involved know that it WOULD be Mutually Assured Destruction. Even so, China has many times the military strength that the U.S. does--not as much technology, no, or precision, or range even, but I believe they have more than three times the number of soldiers in only their Army than the U.S. does in all of its military forces combined--Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines (Dept. of Navy), and even including the Coast Guard, which isn't really military anymore because it's now under the Department of Homeland Security. So as for numbers, the U.S. would have no chance, but as for technological aspects, the U.S. would have the greater advantage. Except for the fact that China can use the force to have more money at their disposal, whereas the U.S. government has at least a semi-fixed income. (Don't take that out of context and exaggerate it.)

The only dispute I see that's been brewing and ready to blow is that with North Korea, which, as far as I know, isn't supported by China in this instance, so wouldn't be too much of a hassle to deal with. North Korea might be the ones that would use nuclear weapons, but there's no telling, and even if the use of nuclear weapons didn't destroy all parties involved--let's say one was fired and shot down, etc.--I'm sure it would be looked down upon, severely, by most of the rest of the world.

As for spreading peace and avoiding conflict entirely, as was pointed out, it would probably have more of an affect if you simply joined an organization already devoted to such ideals. There are many, I'm sure. I don't know your age, but most people don't take notice to things young people do, whether they be 15 or 25. If you're in college, or maybe even high school, you might could start a school-wide organization, but I wouldn't expect your influence would be able to reach much further than that.

I actually kinda envisioned this. Eventually USA will piss off enough people to start a war. China is not even close to communist, they are only communist by name. They are actually very capitalistic because we all know, that is one of the most effective ways. Why do they not say they are capitalistic? Why, because then USA will say OMG j00 Capitalistic, j00 have to do thingz our way roflolol...-_- They wont say it outright, but they will do something like that. US with its current power will try to change any nation to fit itself, its an assimilation and by assuming the Communist name, they are therefore protected and still be able to grow as a country. I am pretty sure that the Chinese people, KNOW its a dumb idea to use Communism since it failed and weakened the country. I like you to look at Hong Kong or Shanghai and tell me HOW is that communist?

The USA already wanted to dismantle the threat to their power known as China the minute they tried to get Taiwan away from them. Taiwan is part of China, and they rebelled, China has every right to take it back. But because USA doesnt want China to have it, they supplied the Taiwan people with weapons and a blanket of security and claiming it as a movement against Communism. Divide and conquer imo, and they did it before with Korea in the Korean war by dividing them. Now Korea as a whole is not as strong because it is seperated, and USA is doing the same here. The united states has no right to just BUTT into other country's foreign affairs and problems -_-

So i would say because of the way the USA thinks they can handle other countries as psh posh, its bound to happen, and damn well i am pretty sure it will happen..in which case i have to flee because i am chinese and i am sure concentration camps will ensure...if not terrorism.

If you think this is completely BS then you really need to go out and look at things from another perspective..-_- Alot of people at least that are asian (and/or chinese living HERE in the USA) do view it that way. Most other people just dont seem to pay enough attention living in America and needs to listen to less American news. I dont trust the US as some kind of capitalistic hero...i dont understand how any conservative can look at it that way. I dont even trust their police much less the government.

Nik, as much as i like peace to happen, i dont think it will IMO. I think US has pressed way too many buttons that it shouldnt have, and that they need some check and balance. -_- Maybe before other countries try peace and tolerance, the USA needs to look at itself and listen to its own words.

I sure dont like war...but i just feel theres only so many punches in the face you can take before you have to punch back. Of course i can keep dreaming =/ I certainetly do not want the United States as the world's superpower any longer even if i should still live in it...because while i am safe living in it for the most part, i feel they are a threat to everyone else. Stuff like this always have happened, it sjust more apparent these days IMO.

Just how i feel.

Nuclear deterrence, I believe, may well be our saviour here. Both the PRC and USA have formidable nuclear arsenals; neither nation can afford to initiate a full-scale conflict with the other. Annihilation would be guaranteed.

However, current US foreign policy seems to be thus:
"If they're different from us, and they don't like us, then they're a threat and must either be destroyed or changed so that they're just like us".

For now, this policy has only been enforced against small, relatively defenseless states.

America is suffering because of the enormous international backlash against its self-serving and aggressive campaigns; in time, they may come to realise that friends are more valuable than enemies, so a change of stance is necessary. Similarly, China's socio-economic reforms and growth are bringing them further into the international community, more than ever before. This should help to break down the barriers that have kept outsiders from trying to understand China's way of life. Favourable circumstances and the pressures of political reality could, I believe, force the world to become a more cohesive, unified group of states.[q=Sasquatch]The only dispute I see that's been brewing and ready to blow is that with North Korea, which, as far as I know, isn't supported by China in this instance, so wouldn't be too much of a hassle to deal with. North Korea might be the ones that would use nuclear weapons, but there's no telling, and even if the use of nuclear weapons didn't destroy all parties involved--let's say one was fired and shot down, etc.--I'm sure it would be looked down upon, severely, by most of the rest of the world.[/q]The moment North Korea tried to launch a nuclear weapon, the US would be forced to respond with a nuclear strike of its own. North Korea's infrastructure would be swiftly annihilated. That, however, will not happen, because North Korea knows it would. It's a dodgy standoff - North Korea is now safe from attack, even though the US has been threatening them for years now. Nuclear capability has given them protection, in the same uneasy way that it has helped to ensure against full-scale war between India and Pakistan.

[q=lionx]Taiwan is part of China, and they rebelled, China has every right to take it back.[/q]Taiwan's been independent for a considerable period now; it'd be unfair to say, for instance, that India has the right to reclaim Pakistan or that other Middle-Eastern nations have the right to re-take Israel. I'd hate to see Taiwan engulfed in a war against the overwhelming military might of China. I have a number of friends from mainland China, Hong Kong and Taiwan, so the matter is even more personal to me...

War and hatred have been a part of humanity since before recorded history. However, things have changed - war now has the real potential to annihilate us all. Before now, one country would always win, or they'd reach a treaty to end hostilities. Today, nuclear-equipped rivals could completely ruin each other with no chance of victory. Globalisation is another change - societies and nations are becoming more intermingled and interdependent. This never occurred before, and is arguable an improvement, as far as peace is concerned. International groups like the UN (despised by many in the US but also a significant international movement) have more power than ever before.

The person who starts a nuclear war will have to make a conscious decision: "Am I going to commit genocide? Am I going to condemn all of my people?"
I doubt any leader would answer, "yes".

My only hope is that we don't see a gradual escalation of hostilities, with one nation slandering the other and trying to circumvent its objectives. That kind of behaviour could - and often does - bring states into a position where war seems the only solution.

Agreed Dave. What is needed for leaders to all take a collective deep breath and realize that each decision must be made with the best interests of the world in mind, not with the agendas of their party or country alone. Nuclear weapons have become the ultimate bargaining chip as those who have them in some way, get a say in matters, but also give them the capability of mass destruction, which no one wants, I hope.

Deep down, I think that if the right people are put into place, the right decisions can get made and all of the mounting hostility will subside.

Who exactly these "right people" are is the real challenge and question. People that have vision, can inspire and create on their own, yet are humble, that can see that they are responsible for their choices and weigh every option, avoid needless conflict and are willing to listen to other are amongst the qualities I believe that will be needed.

Take care all.

I see things like this:

Governments are eager to go to war for power. People, however, are reluctant to go to war because they are the ones who suffer. The only way any citizen could support a war, is if the enemy was a nameless, faceless killer.

I believe that, if we knew each others names, if we saw each others faces, and understood each others histories, war would be nearly impossible. If we could keep both of our cultures in our hearts, and celibrate our differences, the people would just not stand for war. It is only possible to get a society to fight if the enemy has been distanced from them. If we can view each other not as "Americans" and "Chinese" but simply as people then a huge step towards peace will have been made.

If only we knew each others names...

Being a little bit cold-hearted, I don't see why US would want to fight China, as trading seems to have increased between the two countries. Have I missed out on something here? (I have read through the thread.)

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Originally Posted by princeofdarknez

Being a little bit cold-hearted, I don't see why US would want to fight China, as trading seems to have increased between the two countries. Have I missed out on something here? (I have read through the thread.)

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Eventually there will be a conflict between the two nations, because China is a growing power. Politically it is not in the best interest of the United States to allow China to grow as strong, or stronger than we are. A conflict of some sort will then ensue. Like I said earlier, we may not see US troops on Chinese soil or vice versa, but I have no doubt that our forces will meet Chinese forces someday, on some front.

And finally...

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

I did not intend this thread to be a debate about whether or not China and the US will be enemies. The goal of this thread was to discuss the idea of a group of people or an organization that spreads the idea's of understanding and unity to the people of the world, in hopes of preventing future conflicts. I shouls have made this clear earlier. If you want to start a thread about the US China Relationshp, please do so, but let's not talk about it in here.

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Well, I don't think the US will start a war with China or viceversa, because..well...both can loose. Simple as that. You don't attack a country if you have such a high risk of failure.

Nikotine, about the idea on the whole promoting peace, well, it's not like one person alone can do that much, but I believe the secret here is not on pulling flowers out of a balcony and handing them to people while you stand bare footed in the street and high on marihuana. By hanging around big signs of peace, love and unity between the nations you are not going to change the minds of people, because well, people already have seen enough signs of peace and love.

I believe a way of acting and changing this is by making people arrive to such conclusions by themselves. You just need a group of people and creativity, and it can be done. For example, a friend of mine has a group dedicated to make artistic happenings in the street: the whole concept of it are happenings that awaken people from the slumber of idiocy and alienation. In one of those, they attempted to show people how the worst of all messages could be accepted if delivered under the best make up:

They all dressed up as an NGO; with t-shirts, a stand, photographs of their facilities in Africa, experts talking about the conditions of the people and all that crap. It was all false, the photographs were obtained from the internet, the shirts made in a shop and there was no memeber of the NGO that was not an actor. The supposed plan of this false NGO was to help "the black people in Africa" by bringing them to Spain, to the homes of the people that were willing to keep them there for a while. They were asking for this people. The way the whole thing was presented looked like a very nice way of promoting pseudo Nazi ideas. First of all, they said "the black people had been selected specially, to get the most strong, intelligent and beautiful people". They also had a "catalogue of blacks", with photographs of African people, with their names, ages, heighs, weight, etc, as if they were animals, so you could choose the person you would carry home (all the pictures were taken from Google). They also said one of the rules is that you had to keep the person under a roof and feed him, but you were forbidden to pay him for any service you would provide, because the organization didn't like the idea of economical benefit. In other words, slavery in solidarity make up. They also told people "this blacks can sleep anywhere or be fed anything", and all those sorts of things, along with a "psychological test to see if you are worthly of taking this blacks under your keep" asking you "how much litter you throw away each day". Anyway, as you can see, pure slavery, a man even asked them for six people to work on his lands (God, what an asshole). At the end of the whole thing, they dressed up as the KKK and packed.

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They all dressed up as an NGO; with t-shirts, a stand, photographs of their facilities in Africa, experts talking about the conditions of the people and all that crap. It was all false, the photographs were obtained from the internet, the shirts made in a shop and there was no memeber of the NGO that was not an actor. The supposed plan of this false NGO was to help "the black people in Africa" by bringing them to Spain, to the homes of the people that were willing to keep them there for a while. They were asking for this people. The way the whole thing was presented looked like a very nice way of promoting pseudo Nazi ideas. First of all, they said "the black people had been selected specially, to get the most strong, intelligent and beautiful people". They also had a "catalogue of blacks", with photographs of African people, with their names, ages, heighs, weight, etc, as if they were animals, so you could choose the person you would carry home (all the pictures were taken from Google). They also said one of the rules is that you had to keep the person under a roof and feed him, but you were forbidden to pay him for any service you would provide, because the organization didn't like the idea of economical benefit. In other words, slavery in solidarity make up. They also told people "this blacks can sleep anywhere or be fed anything", and all those sorts of things, along with a "psychological test to see if you are worthly of taking this blacks under your keep" asking you "how much litter you throw away each day". Anyway, as you can see, pure slavery, a man even asked them for six people to work on his lands (God, what an asshole). At the end of the whole thing, they dressed up as the KKK and packed.

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The guy probably was teasing them. It sounds more like a joke to me.

To me, Taiwan is more of a rebel state, its nothing more than the USA butting in that made them lose that part of China. Why didnt we reclaim them sooner? We were too weak at the moment to fight against the United States who WOULD have attacked China should they have wanted to take back Taiwan at the time. Now its just we are ready to do so without someone overpowering and butting into affairs... hopefully. Think about Britain and United States in the Revolutionary War. Britain obviously saw it as a rebellion and they have every right to the colonies, and the colonies think its a revolution. The same is here, except that someone butted in. There is call for military action to solve major protests and stuff to solve things in the long run. I think this is nothing different than say should Hawaii rebell, and then United States putting troups there to calm things. I think its perfectly fine. Many of us still think Taiwan is still part of China because namely most of the asians there migrated off there anyway. -_-

IMO i think that from what i seen in the action against the Middle East, thoughts will be thought later, after all once you are in there and causing chaos, apologizing will solve everything. -_- Nik i wish there are more people like you...however whether or not this will really happen with some of the radicals in this nation i seriously doubt it looking at it realistically...but it never hurts to try..=/

If the US wants to avoid agitating China and creating more tension , then it should just stay out of the whole Taiwanese affair and concentrate on cleaning up it's act on the domestic front.

The problem is, that's impossible. No single country, any country, is the issue or the threat here. True, the US has it's flaws, and is making considerable mistakes, but the same can be said of just about every nation (with the possible exception of Iceland).

The true problem is ignorance. Is the failure of people to see eye to eye, to even acknowlege one another as human beings. We're calling everyone Chinese or American or Afgani or Israeli. We should be calling one another "brother".

If you want to start this, I'm with you, and I can tell you how to do it.

1. Take Stock of Resources. We have the strongest tool right here and now: people who care. Plus, we have access to the most powerful method of combating ignorance: the information super-highway.

2. Using Resources. This, harder... volunteer help is hard to come by. Need a name, feel free to suggest. Need a support... which is REALLY easy, just setting up an internet forum board like this one would be about half the battle. I've done PR work on several occasions, it's not hard, if someone can do the HTML stuff for me. Not to mention language support.

3. Expanding Base The hard part. If this is to be international, it needs international spread. This forum board would be a good place to start, as would anything else. People who are intelligent, articulate, and as multi-lingual as possible... collecting propoganda from every country, to show how rediculous they all are... and so forth.

4. Networking And doing it smart. There are multiple organizations that are assets that could be invaluable. My priority would be "Doctors Without Borders". They're the largest, most respected, international humanitarian/charity organization.

5. Time Because, something like this, will take decades to reverse anything. The trick is operating fast enough, well enough, soon enough, to slow down the escalating tensions. Buying the time, the breathing room, to do long term good.


Everything else, just details. And patience. And more details. And more patience. And a lot of hard work.

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Originally Posted by udsuna

The problem is, that's impossible. No single country, any country, is the issue or the threat here. True, the US has it's flaws, and is making considerable mistakes, but the same can be said of just about every nation (with the possible exception of Iceland).

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Too right. The biggest mistake would be to blame everything on one country, for instance America, who usually cop all the flak. However, each country tries to say that everything is someone else's fault. It's a convenient way of dehumanising and villainising your enemy in the eyes of your people.

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The true problem is ignorance. Is the failure of people to see eye to eye, to even acknowlege one another as human beings. We're calling everyone Chinese or American or Afgani or Israeli. We should be calling one another "brother".

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Agreed, again.

Quote:

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If you want to start this, I'm with you, and I can tell you how to do it.

1. Take Stock of Resources. We have the strongest tool right here and now: people who care. Plus, we have access to the most powerful method of combating ignorance: the information super-highway.

2. Using Resources. This, harder... volunteer help is hard to come by. Need a name, feel free to suggest. Need a support... which is REALLY easy, just setting up an internet forum board like this one would be about half the battle. I've done PR work on several occasions, it's not hard, if someone can do the HTML stuff for me. Not to mention language support.

3. Expanding Base The hard part. If this is to be international, it needs international spread. This forum board would be a good place to start, as would anything else. People who are intelligent, articulate, and as multi-lingual as possible... collecting propoganda from every country, to show how rediculous they all are... and so forth.

4. Networking And doing it smart. There are multiple organizations that are assets that could be invaluable. My priority would be "Doctors Without Borders". They're the largest, most respected, international humanitarian/charity organization.

5. Time Because, something like this, will take decades to reverse anything. The trick is operating fast enough, well enough, soon enough, to slow down the escalating tensions. Buying the time, the breathing room, to do long term good.


Everything else, just details. And patience. And more details. And more patience. And a lot of hard work.

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Count me in. I won't repeat everything I said in that PM, but I'm keen.

... And how am I to respond to such a good post?
We love ya', ud.

Anyone else in? The more the merrier.

yeh war is evil and there is no need for it but if war does happen it'll be people who make the weapons and stuff that will try and make it happen since they are the people who the most money hungry and if war does happen it probably will end up being China V USA however talk will happen first and M.A.D will be in place and everything but if USA does decide to go to war against China then i think USA will lose if they fight them in 20-35 years time since China i gaining speed in gettin up to date with everything

A truly wonderful post you've made ud. If you don't mind too much, I'll just add my thoughts in, starting with something I posted a while back:

"One of the great tragedies of our time, in my mind, is what has happened to the youth of the world, in that, they feel they must grow up so quickly now and must succeed at all costs or be a complete and utter failure in the world. Pressures from parents, from schools, from society itself to boost every single child to be the best they can be from square one is indeed a noble cause, but in many cases, is rooted in overall unrealistic beliefs. I'm amazed, to be frank, that in my community schools system, standardized tests are now being given to children in 1st grade, a time period when many children are still learning about their own identity and growing.

I've never, EVER been a believer that in order to educate, there must be MORE pressure placed on students. Rather, the education each student gets should be what is important: the ability to convey multiple perspectives, various ways to solve problems, patience, the ability to listen, communicate and the like. Sure, we all need to learn the ABC's and times tables, but shouldn't we also be learning how to be tolerant and compassionate of others and not simply write people off based upon differences, or how quickly they can multiply? Instead of learning how to color in the lines, why not learn how to share those crayons? I firmly believe that if education was really about teaching people about themselves, about humanity, and not just about "things" or concepts that need to be tested to garner federal funding, many, many more children would succeed and come to enjoy school, not loathe it or begin to feel alientated by it.

Overall, though, the most important thing that I wish I could tell every single person is that YOU already are someone, you are a person, someone with ideas, capable of whatever YOU want to achieve. The pressures to get straight A's and the like, in my opinion deeply pale in comparison to becoming a person who accepts others and can accept themselves, can love themselves and find a way to love life, despite all the obstacles that may indeed come about.

Growing up should not be something to be feared or something to cheer, but just another step in the long journey of life. With age usually comes added responsibility, sure, but hand in hand with that, age also can bring the ability to create change and perhaps, display the education you have, or what you believe in. Getting older is just something that happens, but it shouldn't make you enjoy life any more or any less, if anything, it should hopefully make you more aware that you are alive, but not that your life suddenly has any added pressure.

The only person you can and will ever be is yourself, the person you already are. Part of growing up means you become more and more aware of who you are, and hopefully, when you do reach adulthood you have at least come to a basic understanding of who you are. That being said, no matter who you are, the possibilities and opportunities are endless, so long as you see them and put your best effort forth. Don't worry about the pressure of success, that will come with time if you approach it correctly. Instead, love yourself for who you are, come to understand your strengths and weaknesses, come to embrace other people for theirs, and come to see that life should not be an obstacle itself, but something that gives you the chance to overcome obstacles and move forward and ever upward."

What I'm getting at, is the essential importance of education. For everything that we hope for, for everything you posted to work, what is needed is people who believe in tolerance and peace, who have come to understand and see the world by seeing multiple perspectives, by learning to work with others, by learning how to work together and not apart. Even if by chance our generation begins this great work, others must follow our lead to continue it, to always make it better and progress toward helping even more people. So, I believe that if the education system that so many of the youths of the world are in today is changed to focus more on learning tolerance and preaching the power of listening, of thinking, of working together instead of just skills to pass a test, that the ability to put into practice what those who come before have created will be that much greater.

We can all aspire for a world beyond our wildest dreams, but if we only reach forward and never leave something behind for those who come after, we are dooming ourselves to failure when our time has come to pass.

In the end, I will stand, as others have already stated, with those who want to change the world for the better and I will do whatever it is I can to promote these beliefs and continue our steady progression toward a better world.

Best of luck to all in the greater causes of the world, whether it's educating yourself, a friend, a classroom full of kids, helping to feed your family, the poor, curing a disease, healing the sick, or searching for answers to the questions we all do have. Together, we can make a difference, one that will rock the very foundation of society.

Take care all.

It truly is marvelous to hear that people actually want to do something. You don't realize how much it would mean to me if we could actually get this to work. (Or even just TRY to get it to work!). So, from the very bottom of my heart, I thank you all!

Most money hungry and most weapons manufactured sounds like the US to me Kyuzo >_> Why else would manufactured goods mostly be overseas? Most profit margins will be done in the United States and the lower profit margins(like flag making or toy making) go elsewhere. Plus its cheap labor.

Well if people are actually going to go through with this, why not? @_@

Count me in.

An important note to keep in mind, there will always be great resistance to change, even change that does indeed benefit the world at large because more often than not, mass change means those who have power will not remain in power and thus will use every bit of force they have to keep any potential revolutions or changes from happening. Yet, if a solid, true foundation is made, where people band together and aspire to help one another when the going does get tough, nothing can deter or stop it.

Take care all.

That's an interesting point... but my idea isn't to challenge the standing institutions, that's for the people of individual nations to decide, not me. I just think the goal should be creating an environment that's only function is to promote inter-cultural exchange.

The internet actually does that, seemingly, naturally. I just figure on taking it to the next functional level. This forum board is a prime example of what I want to see. Lead by example... Captain, you're a prime example in and of yourself... no one could call you a stereotypical anything of any race or country.

But, an open multi-cultural dialogue that has nothing to do with politics or economics... THAT is my dream.

Sorry if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth good sir.

In the end, you're entirely correct about the internet. Essentially, because we have to communicate chiefly through words, a great deal of the hatred, oppression and forces that might come into play are pushed aside and what we're left is just the words and the meaning behind them which are easier to talk about, figure out and ultimately come to an understanding about than actions can be in many circumstances.

I'd say what you have in mind can certainly succeed.

Take care all.

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Originally Posted by The Captain

Sorry if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth good sir.

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No problem, it didn't seem that way at all. And I'm not going to be the only person in on this, so I'd take the suggestions of everyone. I'm a planner, not a leader, and I want the imput to decide what goals are most important to the participants.

I like China!

That's the spirit!

I think simple goals to start would be wise, and then once those are in motion, they can expand and be enhanced.

Take care all.

You're right, of course, but the true question is: what goals? What should be the first set of goals... how many waves do we want to make, which battles should be fought first, there are a LOT of questions to answer.

I suppose the best place to start would be, use the topic of this thread: promoting peace and tolerance. Where is it needed most, where can it be achieved and utilized to its fullest potential right away?

Take care all.

well if we're talking about peace and tolerence i think the streets would be good like the gangster wannabes or the chavs (if you live in england)

Naturally, I think Europe should be fairly low on the priority list. Most European countries are contentedly at a peace with one another. The recent creation of unified currency is a prime example of that.

China- Here's a big one... they have the power, and moreso the will, to be actively hostile against the United States. The problem, I think, is both countries are culturally bound with strong nationalistic ideals. Niether wants to think of themselves as anything less than the best. This relationship is the greatest threat of peace... and the one we have the strongest ability to influence.

How many Chinese citizens/former citizens/residents are on these boards? Right now, your imput would be incredibly valuable.

Quite a few I'd imagine. If you click on the "Map" link near the top of the page it'll take you to a fairly updated map of the members here so you can get a rough estimate of people from that area of the world.

Do you think another aspect to this whole situation is the fact that both the US and very soon China will have the strongest economies in the world, which essentially gives a lot of people a cause to believe they ARE superior?

Take care all.

The only person I know from China that is on these boards is Iri Valentine.

That's also entirely possible, but China has been a culturally potent people for many thousands of years. I don't think it's entirely economy (although a strong economy allows the following).

I think, in part, it's achievements, cultural icons. China invented civilization, and aggriculture, and gunpowder. America invented telephones and electricity and nuclear bombs. It's one big (parden the phrase) pissing match.

The strongest, most egocentric, most successful, always clash. It works that way with people, and with nations.

I believe what causes nationalism is the constant need to feel(As in emotion). Feeling superior makes 'feeling' much easier. Governments rely on, and often times inspire nationalism in order to accomplish what they need politically. I blame, in part, (a large part) the governments of this world. However, they are not the root of the problem. The problem, in my opinion, is that people are looking in the wrong places in order to 'feel' as I put it. It may be easier to feel stronger than others, but it most certainly feels better to love others. Once people grasp the concept of love, I am POSITIVE that they will abandon hate.

EDIT: I am sorry if this doesn't make alot of sense. I cannot think of any other way to word this.

"I believe what causes nationalism is the constant need to feel(As in emotion). Feeling superior makes 'feeling' much easier. Governments rely on, and often times inspire nationalism in order to accomplish what they need politically. I blame, in part, (a large part) the governments of this world. However, they are not the root of the problem. The problem, in my opinion, is that people are looking in the wrong places in order to 'feel' as I put it. It may be easier to feel stronger than others, but it most certainly feels better to love others. Once people grasp the concept of love, I am POSITIVE that they will abandon hate."

I agree entirely. Part of what feeds this cycle is that people don't look for love as a feeling to achieve, but in my opinion, they look for 'things', material goods to fill the void instead, which actually makes the problem worse, not better.

Take care all.

As much as i do support China so that the United States wont be such a jackass to some other countries..i do wonder with you guys WHY do either side have to be at odds...-_-; I really like to get along tbh.

China i dont think is actively like hostile willing to fight America, but on the issue of Taiwan they do think(and i think so too) that Taiwan belongs to them in the first place and that you Americans just screwed them. I dont think however that China had anything against the United States too much besides economies..which is really hardly anything war-worthy... Maybe its just me, but before the communist and etc(and now) i never saw China as a real aggressive country...especially like how the United States is with their wars and bombs. Korea...ehh maybe but i doubt they are much of a threat anyway...

My father and uncle and along with my mom came from China/Hong Kong during the tougher times and i pretty much do agree to an extent on what they say. The version of how China being a communist bitch and terrorfying place is far too exaggerrated here..=/

Anyway i hope for peace despite my support >_> I mean who REALLY wants war..? I hope the answer is no one.

EDIT To Capt: I honestly think some people really want material goods over love sometimes...as a saying goes, money cant get you everything, but without money you cannot get anything...just dont underestimate the power of money fueling the greed..=/ Like how cities boomed during WWII..? Yup..=/

Would i be too far-fetched to say as long as the US doesnt have home soil war..they would usually want to fight to make a better economy? Oo

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Maybe its just me, but before the communist and etc(and now) i never saw China as a real aggressive country...especially like how the United States is with their wars and bombs.

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Any country with a powerful economy will become an agressive country.

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To Capt: I honestly think some people really want material goods over love sometimes...

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We all want material things, but anyone who takes them over love does not understand themselves. I know that at times I don't.

Indeed, at some point or another, we all do want material goods, it's just part of life it seems. Yet, what I'm getting at is more this underlying need for things, such as buying that new car or else your life just isn't worth living sort of mentality that I think is slowly but surely destroying society. When we start to take comfort more in things than people, disaster isn't too far off in my opinion.

Take care all.

I remember reading about how China lost a few land over some British despute to India in a chinese history book..and China just avoided war and said..let em have it..not important part of land and no need for war.>_> I don tknow...i just never saw them as overly aggressive people..stingy yes :3 but thats me too..but i wouldnt doubt if they would be aggressive to remain at the top.

Capt i think its just material goods are more reliable than people sometimes..which is kinda sad.

"Capt i think its just material goods are more reliable than people sometimes..which is kinda sad."

Then that's something we shall aim to change!

Take care all.

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Originally Posted by The Captain

"Capt i think its just material goods are more reliable than people sometimes..which is kinda sad."

Then that's something we shall aim to change!

Take care all.

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That's the spirit!

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

The only person I know from China that is on these boards is Iri Valentine.

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YO. I am not from China.

Yo but you are teh live China.

We should all go to Chinese message boards and post photos of American's holding "I [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img] China" signs. Huzzah!

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

We should all go to Chinese message boards and post photos of American's holding "I [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img] China" signs. Huzzah!

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Somehow, I don't think that would carry over as well as you'd like. Yeah... might even make things work... be nice if it works, but it could only prompt a lot of flaming and stuff.

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Originally Posted by udsuna

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

We should all go to Chinese message boards and post photos of American's holding "I [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img] China" signs. Huzzah!

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Somehow, I don't think that would carry over as well as you'd like. Yeah... might even make things work... be nice if it works, but it could only prompt a lot of flaming and stuff.

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Umm I don't think they have message boards. no free speech = probably not that many message boards.

They do have message boards and they do have enough free speecah IMO. The internet doesnt mean that its in China plus theres tons of servers that have chinese in them. I know theres an FFXI Chinese board even thats just for Chinese players there. There are plenty, you just gotta look for em, its not like you can say theres no Japanese or any other country message boards if you can only read English. :rolleyes2

He's right. The internet is home to all things (no matter how illegal) and all peoples (no matter how oppressed). Any culture in the world that has electricity and phone lines also has internet access.

What are all you people talking about? Of course China doesn't have message boards! Why do you think Iri is here? :D

I can't wait until I go to China. Hiiyy-Yahh! Heh heh.

Let war come, as a visionary I have forseen all of this which is why I act the way I do and vote for into office who I vote for. There are two possible outcomes.

#1: Some Asian country (It was a psychic dream so I can't tell, it doesn't help that I'm a bigot and think "they all look-alike!" lol.) will pretty much whipe the Earth clean with radical weapons. This is my preffered result. Hummanity is a disease.

#2: Some Middle-Eastern country will succeed on a global scale and put us all under religous tyranny. Not my forte, but I can't say I wouldn't enjoy the suffering and freedom deprivation the unworthy masses would have bestowed upon them.

Then again maybe neither of these might happen, maybe it's all just an enigma of paranoia on my part, and even if so I say bring on the nukes. Natural selection will take it's course and those who cannot survive should and will die.

There's too many people in the world anyway, and most of them are unlikable. I idolize Kim Jong, he may be a lunatic. But atleast he's got the right idea in helping mother Earth by disposing it of the intelligent parasite.

China has a few message boards, but they all type in pin yin if they are serious about anything.

Then you obviously have not been to many message boards, theres chinese words in them not only pin yin since its not that useful in day to day writing.

It's a little-known but true fact that most of China's internet access is provided through US-owned establishments. As a result, the US government has significant control over what content is available in China, so there's a significant amount of censorship. Anything extremely political, "anti-American" or otherwise inflammatory is routinely blocked; the internet cannot be relied upon for giving China full and uncompromised access to the beliefs and opinions of the wider world...

Not totally relevant to this discussion, but significant nonetheless.

By US owned establishments, do you mean like AOL or Earthlink kinda thing? Because i am not really as pro-american on many things...but i dont see how that stops them? Or do you mean something else? I dont see how our ISP blocks our opinions.

I'm not sure of the exact technical details, but I do recall that all of China's internet access is provided by the US somehow. Due to the nature of the arrangements, the government has the ability to screen and moderate exactly what's available to the Chinese public. Some news, government and NGO sites are blocked; site names with certain keywords are also unavailable.

Ok just one more thing you mean the government as in the USA Government? Sorry just want to clear it up..sorta confused on that part.

Yep, that's right.