So, with most of the details revealed now, what has been learned from this experience?
Take care all.
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So, with most of the details revealed now, what has been learned from this experience?
Take care all.
Don't trust the staff. Ever.
That people's emotions are easily toyed with. :(
that April Fools makes everybody immature
THE JACKEL
We're dumb.
Yeah, my trust in all of you is broken. BROKEN, forever :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I learned that I'd probably miss EoFF if I left it. because of all the randomness and fun stuff that happens all the time.
that being said, I hate practical jokes.
Raist is better off banned.
:skull3:
I learned not to screw with you people, lest I again suffer the wrath of the members of EoFF.
I learned that the staff have to put up with a lot of crap all the time.
What you should have learned is, when in doubt, always trust Flamethrower. >=D
Seriously though, I've learned that the staff has too much time on their hands. You guys probably could of discovered a cure for cancer in all of the effort you put into plotting this.
we're still working out the patents.
The Staff? What about what we had to put up with? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by eestlinc
yea, staff has to put up with that all year long.
If the members somehow deleted the Staff forum and closed all the threads the Staff made about it, then yeah, I'd agree. :p
I've learned that you can never please everyone, no matter what you do.
I've learned that it's not nice to fool with you guys.
I've learned that it's fun to fool Raistlin. :)
I've learned that I wouldn't like it if I wasn't a CK anymore.
...so, it's not nice to fool with everyone but me? >=oQuote:
I've learned that it's not nice to fool with you guys.
I've learned that it's fun to fool Raistlin.
Shluppers has corrupted you. ;_;
EDIT: You know that if I had gotten pissed and left EoFF, you guys would've felt VERY guilty. xD
True, but you wouldn't do that. :)
You guys seemed pretty worried in that Planning thread. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Leeza
About an hour after I'd found out, I thought about doing that, but by then it was too late. I could've made it realistic. xD
Admit it, Raist, you're just plain fun to smurf with. I wasn't worried about you leaving because I know if you left you'd have to leave an argument, and you just couldn't ever do that. I was worried you'd post the picture though, which is why it took me like five full minutes to say that if you did you'd be banned for trolling, 'cause it took me that long to think of a response that wouldn't either make you think it was okay or egg you on. xD
And I also learned that if the staff members that pretended to step down really did so, EoFF would suck. Leeza reported so many posts my inbox was like 'omf.'
Oh, I wouldn't have left an argument. I would've left with the last word...a lot of last words. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
xDDDDDQuote:
And I also learned that if the staff members that pretended to step down really did so, EoFF would suck. Leeza reported so many posts my inbox was like 'omf.'
I warn maybe a post every-other week, but then I don't check as many threads as Leeza. And she has higher standards than me. :p
I've learned that I'm better than everyone else.
Hell yeah, Stalin!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaneko
I've learned that I'm not above the rules.
OR AM I?
You were only demonstrating "True Romance", Kishi. That can't be wrong.
As it relates in and out of the workplace. With tentacles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaneko
Here's my take on 'what we learned', abriged from a PM I sent to a concerned member:
Quote:
What we have all witnessed is, in essence, a "worst case scenario" simulation - a role play, of sorts, assessing the impact and repercussions of what would happen if a serious breach of rules took place.
Here's how it all developed:
Every year, the staff do something unusual for April Fool's Day. This year, we were trying to come up with something original, something creative. The idea of "Kishi getting banned for posting porn" came to mind immediately, but the problem was how to make it look real, not just a blatant gag that everyone would see through.
At this time, there was considerable controversy concerning EoFF's swear filter, with staff and regulars on both sides of the (sometimes heated) debate in Feedback. This gave us an idea: what if the staff become seriously split over a big issue of some sort? A fundamental divide, something so bad that half of us would quit? From then on, we orchestrated a timetable and basic 'plot synopsis' for how things would develop, including who would side against whom, and what kind of issues would polarise us. My 'Serious or Silly?' thread in Feedback was one manifestation of that.
However, through all of this, it was decided that each Staffer would remain true to their own personality and opinions. Whenever we said we supported or opposed something, that was usually all true; the only 'acting' was in the degree of response we each showed. Deliberately taking things to extremes and getting angered by fairly trivial differences of opinion. This was all intended to create a 'factual matrix' to support - and conceal - Kishi being banned. All staff arguments and resignations are a part of the simulation, as is the removal of Feedback.
However, this is not merely an April Fool's joke; it is also a serious investigation into what makes a forum function, what members expect and require from their staff and vice versa. Powerful lessons have been learned; the value of professionalism and a healthy balance of seriousness and levity have been given much exposure. Noble concepts such as Del Snizz's "The Community of EoFF" and the proposed Constitution have given everyone plenty to think about. Staff decisions on matters of discipline and rule enforcement will forever be improved as as result of the intense response to recent staged events.
You gotta admit... we played it pretty well, I think. I often disagree with ShlupQuack, but we get along nicely - even more, recently. The recent scandals have simply been a result of us 'hamming up' our own opinions, pretending to refuse to co-operate or compromise. All was rigged so that EoFF's members would witness an apparent bust-up among the staff. However, as it transpired, the plot went from a mere April Fool's joke into a powerful learning experience.
Hot animal sex between two different humanoid species... True romance, indeed. [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img]
...Since when is "horny tentacle monster" a "humanoid?"Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Or kirby, for that matter?
I didn't learn anything.
Did you at least learn what it was that made you ill?
Take care all.
Because it has "human characteristics or form," which is what "humanoid" means, dummy. I was going to just say interspecies sex but I don't want people acusing me of having too strange of fetishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
Someone else used a skull. :skull2:
I learned that site staff are funny and jokes aren't.
Oh yes! I learned not to eat three day old sandwiches.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
You should have learned that from watching The Simpsons.
I learned that I don't have much fun arguing against what I really believe in.
I also learned that if you are very passionate in a pursuit, the truth eventually gets revealed to you, or perhaps, it just gets revealed out of pity.
Take care all.
I'm hoping some of the things we DID mention are at least talked about by the staff now that this little experiment is over and done with.
I learned that it is a good idea to stay level headed about these things. I am SO glad I didn't get angry and look like a jackass the whole time. :p
No, we still just accuse you of bad grammar. EDIT: and "acuse" you of bad spelling.Quote:
Because it has "human characteristics or form," which is what "humanoid" means, dummy. I was going to just say interspecies sex but I don't want people acusing me of having too strange of fetishes.
Only if the Staff doesn't have you on their very short list of who they want to humiliate with their pranks. By "very short" I mean "one name." :rolleyes2Quote:
I also learned that if you are very passionate in a pursuit, the truth eventually gets revealed to you, or perhaps, it just gets revealed out of pity.
HahahahahahahahahahaQuote:
I'm hoping some of the things we DID mention are at least talked about by the staff now that this little experiment is over and done with.
I didn't learn much that I didn't know before. :p
I liked the fake suicide thing much, much more. I have to say that.
Human life and death is far too serious to joke about. Especially since this forum is populated mainly by adolescents, who have a far higher suicide rate than any other age group.
I learned that Raistlin has a very high threshold for annoyance and that he's a good sport who can appreciate this business for what it really is. His reaction has been both impressive and a relief.
Sounds about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
You guys are gonna have a tough time topping this one next year. :p
We're starting after Thanksgiving next time.
I thought we already started.
:shifty:
Hey I was around for some of this. Not long enough to be affected, but I heard about the banning and unbanning and all that jazz. Plus I read that damn 35 page thread, skimming the last so many pages. Seems like way too much planning went into this. Oh I forgot, this is an online forum. I wish I had the kind of time to do this stuff anymore :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Stop comparing monsters' tentacles to BJ's. It can't be that long and flexible.
It wasn't my ideal way to spend Spring Break, but I had to cancell my vacation plans so I could prepair to move. Everyone else is just a loser though. Haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudDragon
Pfft. Jealous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless
I learned that Raistlin is undoubtedly the most annoying person to have ever messaged me on AIM. Seriously. The bastard doesn't know the meaning of "shut up", "leave me alone" or even "this is the last question I will ask you." Geez.
I also learned that EoFF can stress me out a lot. I also learned that, despite fooling a lot of you, I really do struggle to lie. Actually, I already knew that. I really do have a rough time lying. I'm more inclined to just say "I don't want to say." or something instead of lying.
"I also learned that, despite fooling a lot of you, I really do struggle to lie. Actually, I already knew that. I really do have a rough time lying. I'm more inclined to just say "I don't want to say." or something instead of lying."
That's an extremely noble quality though, in my opinion.
Take care all.
I learned I smurfing love this place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofdarknez
It's your fault that you have a hard time making up good lies. :pQuote:
I learned that Raistlin is undoubtedly the most annoying person to have ever messaged me on AIM. Seriously. The bastard doesn't know the meaning of "shut up", "leave me alone" or even "this is the last question I will ask you." Geez.
That is where I'm most shocked. With most forum disagreements( we've had, you've talked forever with me, whether through LJ or AIM - and you didn't call me annoying then. When you started bitching instead, that kinda worried me. So it's your own damn fault, whiner.
What? You were interrupting THINGS and I made that clear. >=/ I don't mind arguing about things, but you were interrogating me. That's a different story altogether. I hated it! =( You did it over multiple days, too! We've only ever had one or two lengthy chats about staff matters before then, as far as I know, and they weren't attacking me, more so just us joking about things. You were all... annoying! Yeah. And man you just don't shut up. :( Geez!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
GEEZ!
yea, but EoFF was DYING!!
I learned that everyone is a bunch fo wieners and that I am a total rockstar.
If you were doing important things you wouldn't have been on AIM talking to me in the first place. :pQuote:
What? You were interrupting THINGS and I made that clear.
I wasn't interrogating you; it only appeared that way because I was asking all the questions because you had NO ARGUMENT WHATSOEVER.Quote:
I don't mind arguing about things, but you were interrogating me. That's a different story altogether. I hated it! =( You did it over multiple days, too!
It's hard for an argument to not appear attacking when it's so one-sided.Quote:
We've only ever had one or two lengthy chats about staff matters before then, as far as I know, and they weren't attacking me, more so just us joking about things.
Me: Hey
Daniel: Hey. I love EoFF, and am still Pro-Kishi
Me: But don't you think...
You: whaaaaaaa I don't wanna talk about this anymore whaaaaaa :(
Me: wtf, I just IMed you. God, you're such a baby.
That is a pretty accurate summary of an actual IM convo we had. xD
You never even put up a fight! At least Shlup and Roogle and hell, even RSL put up a good debate. You were just whining. :pQuote:
And man you just don't shut up.:(
When people asked me about it I just said I tell them in a couple of days.
I learned that Del shouldn't eat three-day-old sandwiches.
Probably the most interesting April fool's joke I've seen yet. Certainly the most devious.
The staff is not only lazy but also has a strange sense of humor. ;)
that one day people can express their feelings and dislike for the staff freely and the next no one cares anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
At least the staff can keep their integrity through the Member-commiting-suicide route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
I've learned that I chose the best/worst time possible to cut off all contact with everyone from Eyeson, depending on your perspective of the situation.
I'm not sure I completely understand. Do you mean a 'fake suicide' gag has less effect on someone's integrity or believability?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Graves
He means that when Linus faked his suicide we were able to keep our integrity, but in playing this joke we became scum. Or something like that. We didn't lose our integrity in the former because we weren't in on the joke.
EDIT: After Raist made comments about me being an awful admin I was gonna put my "Best Admin" and Ciddies in my sig but I forgot until just now. Damn.
In reply to D:
Neither. A suicide scenario wouldn't have generated the amount of totally unneeded drama that this had caused. It also doesn't make fun of people who care for this place. This doesn't show any integrity on the staff's part.
Just to clarity.
But you lost that Ciddie to BoB last time. Still, you can use my Best Male Ciddie if it makes you feel better. I'm surprised I beat you to win it!Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Losing Integrity does not = Scum. Thanks for taking my words out of context out of mass defensiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
You reckon? If people had seriously believed someone killed themselves, it'd be far more chaotic than a few staff members having hissy-fits with one another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Graves
I mean, seriously... all we did was argue with each other. It is not, and never will be, as serious as somebody killing himself.
EoFF was never "on the brink of destuction", as some people have suggested. There was an apparent falling-out among the staff, and some of them quit. Big whoop.
Sure, the drama got a little out of hand and spread further than was anticipated. Oh well, we all survived. It successfully fooled the ones it was meant to fool - the cynical, grizzled oldbies who only login so they can post in Feedback about how crap EoFF has become, and how it was so much better in the old days:p
It's not like I had to pass it on... I won like... I think two of them. Plus Best Female a couple of times, but Raist already knows I'm the best female in the world so there was no use rubbing that in his face for the sake of being a jerk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I consider losing integrity to make someone scum; however, I only used that word because it was the first that came to mind, not because I'm feeling defensive. You can think I'm scum; I don't particularly care. Thanks for taking my words and assuming you know my thoughts and feelings though. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Graves
Weren't some staff in on the joke back then? That was before I got modded, but I'm sure someone mentioned that at least one staff member knew about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Not to my knowledge, and I was on staff at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
I learned to appreaciate other and to value goodwill among neighbours.
....what?
Anyone who knew Linus well enough would know that, on 1st April, a suicide thread would be a joke.
[q=Shlup]Not to my knowledge, and I was on staff at the time.[/q]Ah, OK. I thought someone once said that Bleys knew about it... I must be imagining things.
As BoB says, for people who actually knew Linus, that suicide note would've obviously been a joke; however, I was new to the forum and didn't know what he was like. A couple of days earlier, though, I'd given him advice in EoEO. When I saw the suicide note, my first thought was "wtf... if this is real, then that might mean that he took my advice but it all turned out badly, and now he's going to kill himself because of something I said". Sure, I was assuming the worst, but it didn't feel especially great.
It was even worse that his suicide note was a copy of a real suicide note some girl actually used when she killed herself.
In short, it's not something you'd joke about in real life. It pales in comparison to me and M4tt saying, "OMG, Shlup am sux, I QUIT!"
Especially since one of EoFF's finest members got banned in the ensuing mess.
Basically, as I said earlier, joking about suicide is more distasteful and more potentially harmful than joking about disagreement.
:tongue:
I'm glad it was felt appropriate to quote locked LJ entries in Staff, when the good majority of Staff couldn't view them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
You said that if staff members deemed it appropriate than you didn't mind your locked entires being posted in the Staff Forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
And you tell me what a crappy administrator you think I am all the time. Was that even in an entry that was blocked from me? I don't recall.
In my marked EoFF Staff entries, yes. I was told that not all of the others were left out.
I realized that it's good never to take anything too seriously, and that the staff consists of possibly the most diabolical people on the planet. :D
I don't doubt that somewhere you may have said it was okay to quote your "EoFF Staff" entries, but I don't think I ever saw that. I only saw you give permission for staff to quote your "locked entries," not just specifically your "EoFF Staff" entries. I apologize for the confusion, but I honestly don't think I ever saw you specify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I can't speak for anyone else though. I didn't particularly keep track of who was quoting what.
I don't remember this, but I may have given permission before my EoFF Staff subgroup to quote from my LJ to promote staff discussion of some sort. For example, my Swear Filter LJ entry - I definitely would have approved of quoting from that in the staff forum. Quoting from my LJ in order to share in your amusement at my falling for you joke is not appropriate - and you trying to justify it by saying I granted "permission" is bullQuote:
I only saw you give permission for staff to quote your "locked entries," not just specifically your "EoFF Staff" entries. I apologize for the confusion, but I honestly don't think I ever saw you specify.
to anyone who has a modicum of common sense and courtesy.
Weren't you like, Ok with this a week ago Raist? You were all "Chill out Bleys and Doom!" Where'd that go?
I have a theory actually.
Yep. I tried to defend Staff. And then I found out that some of my locked LJ entries were quoted for the sheer hilarity of it. And then I felt some of what I think Bleys feels. I just got tired of arguing with people I liked, and I stopped being able to think of reasons as to why they shouldn't be mad. I was wrong, and I admit that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MecaKane
If you think your LJ entries were quoted just to laugh at you, that's your choice. If you think that we were wrong to assume that it was okay for stuff to be posted from your locked entries because you said you give "permission to share anything from my LJ with EoFF Staff," I apologize.
If I had known the extent of some people's reactions I would never have taken part in this.
Likewise.
I didn't fully agree with quoting from locked LJ entires or very personalised PMs. Fortunately, that didn't really happen - occasionally, someone would say something like "Mr X just made an LJ entry about this, and he's not too happy with the things Shlup said to M4tt". Other times, staffers quoted things they posted in response to those LJ entries. The level of feedback and debate also let us know when it was time to cool things off a little.
Anything? First you said that I said anything that was "appropriate," and now it's just "anything?" Which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
Either way, it was just downright stupid to think that I also gave you permission to share things with other members that I deliberately locked the LJ entry from. The idea that you even can possibly argue against that is mind-boggling. It's just basic common sense - if I did give permission to Staff, it was with the intention to promote discussion on the rules and running of the board - NOT to aid you in the monitoring of your joke. To even suggest otherwise is plain stupid, and anyone who argues otherwise is seriously lacking in either common sense, common courtesy/respect, or both.
EDIT: I guess it was my mistake for assuming Staff would use basic levels of thinking before quoting from LJ - if I even gave them permission. I'll remember in my dealings with them in the future to be very specific, or else they'll find loop holes around what I say(again).
Depends on which post of yours I'm quoting. The quote from my post that you're ranting about was copy/pasted from a post you made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I don't see how you can be so pissed when it's not like any staff member did anything that you didn't say we could do. It is totally not fair of you to be mad at every staff member because you weren't specific enough in giving permission to have your locked entries quoted to other staff members. Yes, I realize you do have a right to be upset that your locked entries were, a couple of times, quoted, but the level of how pissed you are, along with the fact that you don't even know what we discussed and to what extent, is completely over the line.
I realize you're not going to recognise how absolutely nuts you're being, so I'm not going to bother trying to defend anything that happened. You ignore what you don't want to hear anyway.
I worry about people like you. I really do.
QUESTION:
Did your locked LJ entries talk about how depressed you were getting because of that whole thing and how last night you stayed up for 4 hours with a gun in your mouth because of it? Did you confess how much you were in love with some person who quit and how it was going to suck with them not around? Or was it more like rants about how you couldn't believe how stupid this person was being for going along with unbanning Kishi/quitting over it?
If it's one of the first two that would be horribly wrong and bad, otherwise it's like showing Tom Hanks a movie review that just goes on and on about what a jerk-off the character he played was. Whoever on staff it was that you blocked out of that entry, because of those events, didn't exist.
I'm not reading that whole thread to find out because it's like 30 pages.
I don't think there's a difference if his thoughts were based on something false or not; he still considered them his private thoughts. The issue is that those who posted those thoughts didn't realize he felt that way. You can call us stupid if you want, Raist, but we wouldn't have posted those things in the Staff Forum if we thought it wasn't okay, and that's the truth of it.
Because obviously you were justified quoting ANY entry I made about anything, because that's allegedly what I said you could do - no matter what it's about. I'm not saying that happened, but if you follow you're logic, that's the only possible conclusion - which is absurd. It doesn't take too much thought and a little bit of courtesy to figure out that I didn't want you discussing in Staff me contemplating suicide or breaking up with my girlfriend or any other personal entry I may have made. If you agree with that, there's no other possibel conclusion in that what happened was wrong.Quote:
I don't see how you can be so pissed when it's not like any staff member did anything that you didn't say we could do.
Most of them were as you said, and it doesn't bother me that they were quoted beyond the fact that it went against what I said in my LJ("don't discuss this with anyone outside of this friends' group" - which I put at the beginning of the first entry I made with each new subgroup. Despite what I allegedly said in Feedback about how they could quote "anything" - which is a little like justifying tearing a friends' house down when the friend says "make yourself at home," I did specify in my LJ not to discuss it outside that subgroup). One was an angry rant which I specifically and intentionally excluded certain people from that entry, and also specified in that entry that it was NOT for the EoFF Staff subgroup.Quote:
Did your locked LJ entries talk about how depressed you were getting because of that whole thing and how last night you stayed up for 4 hours with a gun in your mouth because of it? Did you confess how much you were in love with some person who quit and how it was going to suck with them not around? Or was it more like rants about how you couldn't believe how stupid this person was being for going along with unbanning Kishi/quitting over it?
If it's one of the first two that would be horribly wrong and bad, otherwise it's like showing Tom Hanks a movie review that just goes on and on about what a jerk-off the character he played was. Whoever on staff it was that you blocked out of that entry, because of those events, didn't exist.
It's not so much the content, but specifically going against my intentions in granting quoting permission(despite what denial of common sense and basic thought Shlup is professing) and my express wishes. And not even for a good reason - but for part of a joke.
Thanks for just ignoring the last thing I said. I won't repeat myself further.
You know what? The post joke drama could prove to be more enthralling, more heated, more action-packed, MORE ENTERTAINING than what we conducted :D!
:monster: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie:
Aww, no noodle smilies. I'll have more cookies then, this soap opera doesn't look to be stopping any time soon :p
:monster: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie:
cl_out...you thought that I died in that nuclear accident 6 years ago, but I am back! It is I, your half brother, cl_in!Quote:
Originally Posted by cl_out
k *looks*Quote:
Thanks for just ignoring the last thing I said. I won't repeat myself further.
But according to you, it wasn't even considered, because apparently I gave you full permission to quote whatever the hell you wanted, so no matter what you quoted, it was perfectly acceptable! Again, the equivalent of telling someone "make yourself at home," and then them going and redecorating the house. It's just an absurd notion.Quote:
You can call us stupid if you want, Raist, but we wouldn't have posted those things in the Staff Forum if we thought it wasn't okay, and that's the truth of it.
Yes, we felt whatever we quoted was perfectly acceptable because you gave us permission to quote whatever we wanted. I'm sorry, Raist, I'm not the only one who feels this way. I wasn't the one quoting your LJ entries that I recall, which means that staffers that I believe you do, or did, trust as your friends thought it was perfectly okay too. Which is easier to believe: That your friends on staff thought you were okay with it, or that they're just all stupid jerks who betrayed you for a laugh?
I really just don't think anyone realized you'd be upset about it. Yes, we know you think we're morons for it, but it's the truth. Your permission and your... level of uptightness (for lack of a better term; I have a headache) were misiterpereted by people that I would consider your friends. Except me maybe a couple of times, but I honestly don't remember directly quoting your LJ anyway, I'm just trying to let you know that I don't think you're being very fair with just how angry you appear to be.
If you feel that your analogy isn't too extreme then that just shows how wrong we were in our interpretation of the above. I, personally, would consider it saying "make yourself at home" and then they innocently go and eat a bunch of your food or something. Now if your entry was not EoFF-related and something about your hemmeriod problem or something and was quoted I'd think that was a totally different thing, but I'm getting the impression that you don't distinguish much between your personal life and EoFF.
One bitter man can take his personal problems with staff elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofdarknez
Raistlin - I was keeping track of what was being quoted in that thread. I can assure you that it was only stuff of direct relevance to the April Fool's simulation effort. Stuff like,Or something like,Quote:
Raistlin believes we're suffering a "monumental breakdown in Staff protocol." Looks like people are convinced by the arguing. Keep it up, but don't go overboard just yet.
Those aren't exact quotes, but that's the kind of thing that was posted. We'd never, at any time, consider publicly posting a friends-only entry that was unrelated to the matter at hand, or was too personal to be shared. Basic principles of decency and whatnot.Quote:
XXXX just replied to what I said in Raistlin's journal - you know, when I said it was no big deal because staff can do what they like. XXXX said I'm a jumped-up, gosh-darned piece of poo. Now, if another staffer would be so good as to take his side? We're supposed to be fighting each other here, not dragging the regulars into the midst of our squabbling. They're supposed to see us at each others' throats, not start grabbing for the jugular.
I can understand your concern, but I want you to know your privacy was never compromised.
Edit: Here's the post Shlup's been referring to, I think.
Thanks, D, for addressing the actual problem and not making up stupid excuses. And that, speaking of the general content, I don't have as much of a problem with. I still feel it's wrong - helping you guys out on your prank is not an appropriate use of permission. The obvious intent of my permission was to aid in the discussion of rules and regulations of EoFF.
The context of my permission was in discussion of past EoFF situations which I had made locked LJ entries about - back when I didn't have an EoFF Staff friends' group, which I still wanted the other non-Staff friends to see it, as well. Therefore, I gave BoB permission to quote anything from those past entries that he felt appropriate. Taking that completely out of context and using as a general permission to discussing whatever-the-hell you want from my LJ is just absurd.
Shlup - you accused me of taking peoples' comments out of context during our discussions about Kishi during the whole joke, and now you do the same for me?
Either way, this argument is pointless. Shlup - you accuse of me loving to argue, and yet you continue this arguing that you have some perceived right to discuss my LJ entries? It's my LJ, and there's a damn good reason you're not in all of my friends' subgroups.
I'm done discussing this.
Hey! I said pretty much the same thing Big D said ages ago! :( :( :( Nobody loves the Daniel...
I couldn't resist...
No you didn't. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
You were the one that told me originally, and said you weren't going to bother looking through the thread to tell me what was and wasn't quoted. *smacks BooBy*
Yeah but I never said we made fun of you or anything! Well, not making fun of your entries, anyway. I'm sure I said it was only so we could keep up with things! Big D just said it in a pretty way because he's a very pretty person.
And I said, and still do say, that that was abusing the permission I granted you. My obvious intention, in context, was for you to quote my entries in the interest of promoting Staff discussion on rules/regulations/runnings of the board in past entries which a good portion of Staff can't see. NOT to keep tabs on me in order to facilitate your joke - that was not for EoFF, but for the personal agenda of the Staff. It was not to help EoFF, but to help Staff members keep tabs on me for their prank. It was ignoring my comments in LJ which specifically said not to discuss the entries with anyone that couldn't see them. Anyone who was not willing to abide by that should have asked for removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Ok, now. I'm done discussing this - if you want to continue trying to somehow justify going behind my back, you can catch me on AIM.
This is unfair. I said a lot of the things D said, but I don't have access to the staff forum anymore so I couldn't be more specific. Everyone "abused" the permission you gave based on that quote (and one more somewhere in the same thread, I believe), yet I'm the only one at fault for it.
I have said so many times that it was wrong to discuss your private entries. I told you I wasn't trying to convince you it was right; I was trying to get you to see that it wasn't just everyone being mean, they thought you had granted permission, and they thought you wouldn't care. You don't have to forgive anyone for posting things you didn't want to be posted. It doesn't have to be black and white: You either forgive everyone completely or continue to be angry. You can understand what happened and still be angry about it.
I don't even know what to say. I know we're done discussing it, but I'm just hurt that everything I say you automatically argue against and now that D's said the same thing I said, he's "addressing the actual problem and not making up stupid excuses."
There's no reason for me to care anymore anyway. I don't know if anyone on staff wants to be defended by me anyway, so from now they're on their own. I wash my hands of all of it.
Bah, ok:
You also said things like:
And continually defended that you didn't do anything wrong.Quote:
I don't see how you can be so pissed when it's not like any staff member did anything that you didn't say we could do.
But you are mistaking my anger - how can I be angry at you when you didn't even have access to those entries?
It's not that you were pissed, it's that you were so pissed. Like you didn't care what actually happened; you just know something happened and you were pissed as hell. I didn't think that was fair of you.
I don't recall saying no one did anything wrong. I said continually that you do indeed have the right to be angry, I just didn't feel that your level of anger was fair. And I don't think it's fair to take that line and quote it and leave out right after that when I said, "Yes, I realize you do have a right to be upset that your locked entries were, a couple of times, quoted, but the level of how pissed you are, along with the fact that you don't even know what we discussed and to what extent, is completely over the line."
I realize it was Bleys' LJ entry and not yours, but the fact that all these people got a big "smurf you" and you seem to agree with that based on something that was supposed to be a joke is just mean, and these people don't deserve it.
EDIT: And I should also mention, since you seem to feel that I'm a hypocriate for "accusing" you of loving to argue while I'm also arguing, that duh I like to argue. I only bring it up when arguing with you that you love to argue because you should know that when you're trying to sell that "I care about EoFF" crap I'm not buying it for a second. I don't doubt you care about EoFF, sure, but there's nothing you could do to convince me you care about EoFF nearly as much as you care about arguing.
And that's okay. I obviously care about arguing more than EoFF too. I care about EoFF on two levels: (1) I care about the people who go to EoFF. If EoFF were gone, these people still exist, so I don't really care if the message board is here or not. (2) The only reason EoFF's demise would bother me is because it belongs to my friend. So as long as it's sucessful, he and his hot wife get money for it. That's it.
Just so we're clear.
I'd just like to add that the whole April Fool's plan allowed for a huge amount of discussion of rules and policies. That was an extremely valuable part of the whole affair. People got fired up over something they saw as being 'unjust', so they had some strong ideas and made damn sure they got heard. These ideas were taken onboard by staff; we didn't ignore/laugh at all the discourse that was going on.
Take, for example, this thread. The topic is a serious one; one I felt actually deserved to be addressed. The only reason it's in the AF Archive is because we (the staff) used that thread as a battleground to start confronting each other and having public arguments. Staff actually do disagree over issues like that; we just took our disagreement to extremes rather than being understanding like we normally would. Whenever members' reactions were quoted, it gave the whole of staff some bloody fine insight into what rules and ideals actually matter to members, and what issues are seen as less important. Gauging the level of reaction being generated was integral to all of this.
Well, since we've completely kidnapped this thread, I guess it can't get much worse. So:
But you did try to somehow turn it around that I was wrong for getting mad about it.Quote:
I don't recall saying no one did anything wrong.
Then where is the line drawn? Is there a certain predefined point where I'm suddenly wrong for being bad? I don't think so - some of you betrayed a trust, and I got mad. I didn't even do anything as a result of my anger - I didn't cuss anyone out, I didn't make a thread about it, I didn't block everyone from my LJ, I didn't make a long dramatic LJ entry, I didn't make a dramatic thread and leave EoFF forever. I still even maintain that Bleys is overreacting - just that he has the right to do so. So please, tell me what it is that I'm doing that makes me so wrong, how I'm overreacting.Quote:
I said continually that you do indeed have the right to be angry, I just didn't feel that your level of anger was fair.
I asked BoB what was discussed, and was never told. I thought I had the right to find out what was said about my locked LJ entries, and which parts were quoted/talked about, but I guess not.Quote:
And I don't think it's fair to take that line and quote it and leave out right after that when I said, "Yes, I realize you do have a right to be upset that your locked entries were, a couple of times, quoted, but the level of how pissed you are, along with the fact that you don't even know what we discussed and to what extent, is completely over the line."
I never said anything about Bleys saying "smurf you," and I obviously don't agree with him since I've stayed on a pretty good basis with most of the people he said that to. And I don't think it's fair that you automatically say I agree with everything Bleys does just because I sided with him on the points he made, which were all pretty damn good points - seeing that they swayed me from being avidly against Bleys to being sympathetic of him.Quote:
I realize it was Bleys' LJ entry and not yours, but the fact that all these people got a big "smurf you" and you seem to agree with that based on something that was supposed to be a joke is just mean, and these people don't deserve it.
I hate arguing. I love to debate - I could debate evolution or philosophy or psychology for hours, because with debating you learn something. You don't learn anything from arguing(that's the distinction I put on it, anyway). You don't learn anything from arguing, and it serves no purpose. We were arguing in our LJ, and I dreaded checking it, because I knew I was going to feel obligated to say something, when I didn't want to. I left FG because of all the arguing - FG was not worth putting my energy into; I did not care enough about FG to argue for it. I did not leave EoFF with all of this arguing, because I still care about it. Until my level of frustration exceeds my level of commitment to the place, I will continue to stay and argue for it.Quote:
EDIT: And I should also mention, since you seem to feel that I'm a hypocriate for "accusing" you of loving to argue while I'm also arguing, that duh I like to argue. I only bring it up when arguing with you that you love to argue because you should know that when you're trying to sell that "I care about EoFF" crap I'm not buying it for a second. I don't doubt you care about EoFF, sure, but there's nothing you could do to convince me you care about EoFF nearly as much as you care about arguing.
Arguing sucks. It's frustrating and has a tendency towards drama. I've tried to stay out of this thread to avoid that, because I know if I read anything here, I'll feel obligated to respond.
And that's the biggest reason I did not like you as an administrator.Quote:
And that's okay. I obviously care about arguing more than EoFF too. I care about EoFF on two levels: (1) I care about the people who go to EoFF. If EoFF were gone, these people still exist, so I don't really care if the message board is here or not. (2) The only reason EoFF's demise would bother me is because it belongs to my friend. So as long as it's sucessful, he and his hot wife get money for it. That's it.
I'm not saying all of Staff felt the way Shlup did. But what does that have to do with anything?Quote:
I'd just like to add that the whole April Fool's plan allowed for a huge amount of discussion of rules and policies. That was an extremely valuable part of the whole affair. People got fired up over something they saw as being 'unjust', so they had some strong ideas and made damn sure they got heard. These ideas were taken onboard by staff; we didn't ignore/laugh at all the discourse that was going on.
I did end up learning something, but I forgot what it was.
I'm sorry you felt that way. It wasn't my intention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I just picked up a tone out of your posts over the last few days that made you seem very angry. If I'm wrong, this is just text after all, then I apologize, but you seemed almost irrationally angry and that, I think, is over the line. I may also have taken out my feelings towards Bleys on you a bit though; I'm sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I think that people who you talk about in your LJ have the right to know about it too, and I consider both of those... betrayals, if that's what we're calling them, to be equal. I'm sure you don't agree, but I thought I'd mention it. But, like I think people should be told if people are ranting about them specifically, someone should probably tell you what was quoted and discussed in the planning thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
No, it probably isn't fair in that aspect. When you side with him ("on the points he made," as you say) most people are likely to lump you together with him and his attitude about it. I appologize about that, and I hope you're aware that I'm not the only one who's going to make those kinds of assumptions. No one smurfs RSL but me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I don't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
And that's why I quit, because you're right. I thought I was having fun, but the fact that some people take this stuff so seriously... I guess it's better that I just let you guys do your thing than enjoy myself since I'm not going to change my mind about message boards not being worth a care. I care about a lot of people here, of course, but all the pressure of having to pretend I don't think people like you have issues (I realize that sounds like I think I'm better than you or something, but please just know I don't mean it that way) for the sake of professionalism isn't worth all the avatar changing, pink, and pixeled pandas in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I totally agree with D, and I feel the joke was a great learning experience. For all the drama that's followed I still stand by the joke and say it was worth it both because it was entertaining, and because what the members had to say was really interesting. For every moment I enjoyed toying with you, I enjoyed reading what members like The Captain had to say. Just in case you were under the impression that I didn't think the drama was worth anymore than entertainment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
You can't always talk about someone to their face. Also, if someone asked me what, if anything, I've said about them, I'd answer honestly.Quote:
I think that people who you talk about in your LJ have the right to know about it too, and I consider both of those... betrayals, if that's what we're calling them, to be equal. I'm sure you don't agree, but I thought I'd mention it. But, like I think people should be told if people are ranting about them specifically, someone should probably tell you what was quoted and discussed in the planning thread.
Also, the analogy is false. When I add someone to a more...elitist friends' group, I state outright asking not to say anything to anyone outside of that LJ group. Unless someone directly tells me, "don't say anything, ANYTHING, about me behind my back...period!" there's no relation. Plus, that's just absurd.
Well, if I try to convince you, it'd just be arguing - pointless. Maybe you have a different opinion on the definition of arguing. I admit that I sometimes don't use the word in the manner in which I view it(so I sometimes end up confusing myself on what I actually mean).Quote:
I don't buy it.
It's not about professionalism - it's about respect. If I had said some of the things you've said to me to ANYONE at EoFF, I would've been warned - and that's not right.Quote:
And that's why I quit, because you're right. I thought I was having fun, but the fact that some people take this stuff so seriously... I guess it's better that I just let you guys do your thing than enjoy myself since I'm not going to change my mind about message boards not being worth a care. I care about a lot of people here, of course, but all the pressure of having to pretend I don't think people like you have issues (I realize that sounds like I think I'm better than you or something, but please just know I don't mean it that way) for the sake of professionalism isn't worth all the avatar changing, pink, and pixeled pandas in the world.
I got that impression from some of the things you said in the Planning thread(about your "main incentive" or whatever being smurfing with me). If that was actually not your main goal in this, then I apologize.Quote:
I totally agree with D, and I feel the joke was a great learning experience. For all the drama that's followed I still stand by the joke and say it was worth it both because it was entertaining, and because what the members had to say was really interesting. For every moment I enjoyed toying with you, I enjoyed reading what members like The Captain had to say. Just in case you were under the impression that I didn't think the drama was worth anymore than entertainment.
How am I irrationally angry? I made comments in one LJ entry and one thread here. I didn't yell at anyone, I didn't cuss anyone out, I didn't close off friendships, I didn't make a dramatic thread and/or LJ entry, I didn't leave EoFF forever...I didn't actually do anything. I basically just said I didn't agree with what was done, for such and such reasons, and feel that my trust was betrayed. I'm struggling and unable to come up with a more mild, polite way I could've put it.Quote:
If I'm wrong, this is just text after all, then I apologize, but you seemed almost irrationally angry and that, I think, is over the line.
The rest I didn't respond to either because I agreed with or I accepted.
This thing seems like its being blown way out of proportion.
That's the lamest justification for talking about someone behind their back I've ever heard. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I'd hope so. I wouldn't expect you to be that much of a jerk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
See, my assumption is that no one should have to request that they not get talked about behind their back. And, I know you and I don't agree on this, but I don't consider LJ a private journal. I consider anything posted on the internet to be public domain, and I would never post something private and not expect it to get around. Two can keep a secret if one is dead and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
I've been warned for saying things to you plenty of times. BoB deleted the post I made after I stepped down! What can I say? At a certain point I start losing respect for some people. I still respect you, of course, but sometimes being all nice to you isn't worth the effort. But I don't think that has to do with me as an admin because I do respect people; when I don't show you respect, and when you don't show me respect, that's an issue between the two of us, not between an administrator and a... you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
My main motivation in carrying out the joke was to screw with you; the most valuable result was the member feedback recieved. All the entertainment I got out of it... I'm over it. But the feedback recieved won't be forgotten... by everyone else, I suppose, since I have nothing to do with it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
You seemed pissed and not caring about what anyone had to say. I can't argue with you about the way you were percieved based on your past posts. You just seemed really pissed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Yeah, normally, I'd tell people to take such an argument to PM or LJ or chat too :p In fact, I'll do that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CloudDragon
