http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7523254/
Now, I haven't kept track of the history of the the Catholic church, but 74 seems a bit old. In fact, it seems right around the age when everybody started to ask of JP2 "is he dead yet?"
Printable View
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7523254/
Now, I haven't kept track of the history of the the Catholic church, but 74 seems a bit old. In fact, it seems right around the age when everybody started to ask of JP2 "is he dead yet?"
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany has been selected as the next head of the Roman Catholic Church. Ratzinger, 78 years old, is the second consecutive non-Italian pope. The new pontiff seems to have a conservative theological/doctrinal outlook, although he was active at Vatican II. Discuss.
Well, he's a true conservative fundamentalist... that much is certain. So, expect to see an even greater schizm between modern catholicism and the church itself.
I made this topic ONE MINUTE before you. ha! And also, he's 74, not 78.
edit: wait he IS 78! That makes it even worse!
He's 78 year old, as attested to by numerous sources. Not 74. I'm very sorry for your confusion on the matter.
EDIT: Stop making changes! :)
I merged the two threads together since we just got started and all.
I think in the past Popes did not have exceedingly long tenures. John Paul II was appointed at a relatively young age and so he served quite a long time.
Pope John Paul II was either the second or third-longest tenured Pope in the history of the Church; there is debate as to how long Peter (the Apostle) actually served. I remember reading a few years ago that the next Pope was likely to be older. Such has proven to be the case, I guess.
I heard something about him having somewhat liberal views, but then again, it was on Fox News Channel, so I took it with a pinch of salt.
According to the people that were interviewed, he's going to be pretty well accepted by the church.
This kind of pisses me off. I was hoping for someone slightly more liberal. I don't expect a lot of change in the church but on somethings there needs to be change. Like how they handle scandals amongst other things like birth control. I am not happy with the decision.
Only Fox News would describe him as liberal. You were definitely right to take that with a pinch of salt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hsu
Well, he might temper his views. I would think becoming Pope might change a man. Note that Benedict XV was a liberal pope who followed the strict papacy of Pius X. So who knows. Maybe some symbolism to his choice of name.
Very true. Interestingly, some observers have suggested that the homily he presented at John Paul II's funeral showed a more human side to him, which may have influenced the vote of the Cardinals. In any case, we can certainly hope.
I remember reading that it was likely they'd pick an old Pope this time around so that he doesn't last as long as John Paul II, so that they can use the time to prepare for the one after Benedict XVI.
Oh well, looks like any time now they'll be looking for a new pope...or he's just a stand-in to buy them time to find another.
I'm afraid we'll never see him imitating Charlot or wearing Bono Vox's glasses. But I think that God sees much longer than we do and this may be for the best. He's been knowing Jean Paul II for so many years and I think he will always keep in mind what made him most beloved, which was the fact that he was very close to the people.
I don't know much about him, but I already don't like the guy. I don't think he is going to do any good at all. It pains me to think this has happened. John Paul II worked so hard for peace and understanding, and, from what I gather, it looks like this guy is going to reverse all of that.
I read some of his speech.
...
Well, the good news is that he is 78.
If you liked JP II you will like him. He was JPII's closest advisor for over 20 years & for the last years of JPII's reign it was virtually him calling the shots. He's as Conservative, Anti-Communist & Strong willed as JPII. They called him 'The Enforcer'. Don't expect any radical change under his short papacy, he's there as a strong willed & steady stop-gap for when they bring in a more liberal Pope. He's there to strengthen before change.
I wish him all the best in his tenure, despite being Conservative he is a very strong & able cleric. I think the Cardinal's knew exactly what they were doing.
I heard he was JPII, except probably more conservative and without the charisma.
You got him in one. Although he lacks the Charisma, he is certainly a more learned man. He has been the Vatican & Pope's Speech writer for years. I excpect now they are just paying him his dues before he passes on. They have lined up a more Liberal Pope after his tenure, maybe someone from Africa (probably Nigeria) or Mexico.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skogs
That was fast.
Its not like they weren't preparing for this day for like that past 5 years :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rase
Cool Beans, shoulda been the black guy though.
Oh, yeah, that'd raise a few eyebrows. Then again, the KKK follows a protestant form of christianity, so it wouldn't hit as hard as it should have. But it'd still be a great kick in the teeth. Eh, he's got another couple decades or so years to live, he'll be the pope before you know it. Because this one isn't likely to last.Quote:
Originally Posted by TasteyPies
A kick in the teeth for whom, the Klan? They're notoriously anti-Catholic anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by udsuna
I'm just excited to see how this develops the faith as a whole. I've never seen such a power change hands, so I'm interested in how people change their views to match his views, how he does things differently (if at all) from John Paul II, and so on.
He looks like the devil.
Yeah, I know, hence pointing out their core is protestant, but I'm talking all the catholics (and other christians that consider the position of pope as one with meaning) who are also racist... like so many of my relatives, and their friends, and all the others that I don't know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
78 years old young, that would be sadistically funny if he died next month. "Oh no, the world mourns again, and the story will be all over the news for a couple weeks."
There have been black popes before. It isn't exactly a new station, and they usually draw on places from where there is a great deal of support. Parts of northern Africa have had a strong Catholic base for quite some time, and several popes have come from there.
Whilst not being new to have a black Pope, the last one, Pope Gelasius served between 492AD-496AD. So it is more or less a new station. There has been, altogether 3 African Pope's, Victor I, Gelasius I & Miliades I serving the years 183-203 A.D., 492-496 A.D. & 311-314 A.D. respectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Behold the Void
I don't know much about Pope Ben. He looks scary, though. Pope JP looked like everyone's Grandfather, to me at least. I hope Pope Ben has a good stylist/image consultant. I'm thinking ditch the Popemoblie for a Popecopter, too.
noname -- It's happened before! Not too long ago either, I think. Maybe before John Paul II. Cuchulainn seems to be pretty learned on the subject, he might know.
The Pope doesn't need to be "liberal" or "conservative". The Pope needs to strictly follow the doctrines of the Bible. Birth control among married couples is one thing, but things like homosexuality, the scandals with priests molesting children, etc.--"liberal" and "conservative" doesn't matter in these situations, only "Biblical".
I agree, but when it comes to homosexuality, it seems as if this Benedict guy is passing judgement on them, when it is obviously not his place to do so.Quote:
Birth control among married couples is one thing, but things like homosexuality, the scandals with priests molesting children, etc.--"liberal" and "conservative" doesn't matter in these situations, only "Biblical".
Also, I think that any moronic priest who molests a child should be excomunicated, no questions asked.
Also, one last thing. I really didn't like it when I read that this guy suggested that politicians who supported abortion be denied communion. Now what the smurf? Maybe they are taking the wrong stance, but to deny them the body of Christ, as they call it? Again, it seems to me like they are passing judgement on people by doing this, and that is not thier place. Religion shouldn't turn people away, that's Gods job, and only Gods job.
I don't expect him to change the doctrine, but it's the supressing of debate on the subject that I don't like. So long as they keep pretending these issues don't exist, they are only going to drive people away from the church.
As nik0tine said, it's not that he is "biblical", it's that he is a damn dogmatic bastard. You can follow the Bible without being a authoritarian fundamentalist asshole, and well, it seems like it's not his case.
Well, just another one that will be condeming condoms and condoning condemnations. Good thing he's 79.
The Pope supports refusing Communion to people who support such a non-Biblical subject as the murder of an unborn child. That's a bad thing? In every Communion I've ever received, the priest/preacher/pastor/etc. tells the congregation beforehand that they shouldn't partake in the Communion if they have sins weighing upon them--whether they be simply not a Christian, or if they haven't confessed some sins (not just to a priest in a booth, I mean to God), or whatever. If the Church sees abortion, or supporting abortion, as a sin (and it should, considering that the Bible sees abortion as a sin), then it's not just accepted, it's expected that they turn away those people. That doesn't mean that they're turning away their forgiveness, just Communion, which isn't necessary in forgiveness.
I believe that priests who molest children should be shot...but since obviously that's not an acceptable solution, excommunication is the least of it. I also believe, however, that there should be criminal charges brought upon those priests.
And you can stop saying "good thing he's so old, that means he'll die soon". That's a little cruel, wouldn't you say?
Indeed it has, most recent is Pope John Paul I who's tenure lasted a month before he died of a heartattack. He was a great man who promised a lot & his tenure was all to short.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
Regarding Homosexuality & abortion. Whilst the Catholic church believes homosexuality is wrong the DO NOT judge people by it, and the church has always opened it's arms to those who seek guidance. Whilst they are against it, it's certainly not a 'you're going to burn in hell' stance anymore. Abortion is a different matter, they believe life is life and it is no man or woman's place to take it. Whilst you may disagree with that stance you are in no place to call what they believe wrong, there IS no wrong or right on this subject & there never will be, the pros & cons are in equal balance.
You need to remember, as I've stated before, the Pope needs to live by his faith and it is not solely up to him alone to change the most important and original Christian faith. There are about 20 Cleric's in the Vatican that basically have the say. The Pope is a figurehead & your disagrements with the religion cannot always be blamed on one man.
About the child molestation, this subject is annoying. The percentage of child molestation committed by Clerics is 1%. That leaves 99% of people of other vocations who don't get that label. While it is still 1% too much we need to realise that demonising the Priesthood for this is pathetically narrowminded. In matter of Politics I find myself always opposing Sasquach's views but in matters of the cloth I agree with him 100%. This demonisng of the biggest Christian church is getting as fashiobable as demonising everything American. It's Pathetic, whilst I'm not a Catholic, I was raised as one & respect the church a great deal. Local Priests did a LOT of good for my community and myself, especially during the troubles here & when my Protestant friend got shot dead. He knew I lost faith, he knew I was living out of wedlock with my girlfriend. He did not judge me, preach to me, force religion at me. He was there mearly as a guidance and Spiritual help and told me that the Church doors are always open for me if I ever wanted to go back.
Blaming the world's ails on the Catholic church , aswell as on America, serves only to prove how fickle, forgetful & unappreciative the human race really is.
There have been popes with shorter tenures. As I was looking over it last night, popes in the 8th century were particularly short lived - there was one, I understand, that only lasted a week or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
That was more when the Papacy was a very powerful and political post and assassins were constantly roaming around with sharpened daggers.Quote:
There have been popes with shorter tenures. As I was looking over it last night, popes in the 8th century were particularly short lived - there was one, I understand, that only lasted a week or so.
If you confess your sins, in catholicism, it tends to mean you are forgiven after you do the penitence. If you say divorced people or pro-abortion can't recive communion, you are saying they cannot be forgiven, or at least I understand it like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
I guess you can say that if you hold any respect whatsoever to this person. I don't like this man, I don't like him being in charge of the church, I don't like the fact my family- who are Catholic- have to be frustrated because of the decadence of the Vatican. I think a Pope with a more open outlook on things (and being religious dosen't mean being a sexually repressed dogmatic, look at the Franciscan order, for example) would be helpful for the world. How do we get a new pope? Well, after the current one abdicates or dies. So if this guy dies, well, I'll be sorry I can't thank him for it.Quote:
And you can stop saying "good thing he's so old, that means he'll die soon". That's a little cruel, wouldn't you say?
Mostly diseases, actually, from what I could see - for the most part I was just glancing over the profiles to get the gist of it. The one week one though was just a badly timed heart attack, I recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Behold the Void
Anyway, I'm not saying I hope this guy dies soon, I'm just saying that there have, in the past, been popes with extremely short tenures, and so going after one month wouldn't be unprecedented.
Actually, no, that's far from what I'm saying. I never mentioned divorced people, because it's not something they can change or take back. People who support abortion, however, I don't see a problem with refusing them Communion. As abortion is un-Biblical, and thus a sin to support, and Communion is meant only for those who are, supposedly, at the moment, "clean", it's only logical to deny Communion to those people. Any pro-abortionist can be forgiven, but I don't believe that can happen while they still support abortion. If they repent from their sins--including supporting abortion--then it means they will turn away from them, or at least try to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Nexus
I don't apologize if your family is frustrated that the leader of their religion is a strict follower of their religion. If one disagree with the Pope--and thus Catholicism--then the simple solution is to move to another branch of Christianity, or whatever religion caters to that person's beliefs. Being the Pope doesn't mean being nice and trying not to push people away, it means following the Bible, or at least the Catholic Church's interpretation thereof.Quote:
I guess you can say that if you hold any respect whatsoever to this person. I don't like this man, I don't like him being in charge of the church, I don't like the fact my family- who are Catholic- have to be frustrated because of the decadence of the Vatican. I think a Pope with a more open outlook on things (and being religious dosen't mean being a sexually repressed dogmatic, look at the Franciscan order, for example) would be helpful for the world. How do we get a new pope? Well, after the current one abdicates or dies. So if this guy dies, well, I'll be sorry I can't thank him for it.
Rumors say he has been part of a nazi organization. :eek:
As were all the children his age at that time. You weren't asked by the nazis whether you wanted to join the youth group or not. You were forced to.
Im dissapointed to hear about his old fashioned views. What I liked so much about John Paul II was how much he did for the world. Freeing Poland and many other parts of the world from unsuccesful communism etc. Im not expecting much of that from this old fashioned guy but I dont mind too much. I get the feeling hes only been made pope for the sake of having a pope. I think the cardinals are looking into what qualities they want from the next pope, what areas of the world he wants to focus on etc. Thats how Id see it. Id be very happy to see a coloured pope.
Sin support...well, yes, it does make sense, but...using anticonceptive methods is also sinful according to the Bible (remember Onan). Should communion be denied to them too? I could use a lot of examples...does really supporting something the Bible is against enough to deserve not reciving the communion? Well, I think denial of communion is a very strict measure against just one of the many sins mentioned in the Bible. Hell, even wanking is a sin.Quote:
Actually, no, that's far from what I'm saying. I never mentioned divorced people, because it's not something they can change or take back. People who support abortion, however, I don't see a problem with refusing them Communion. As abortion is un-Biblical, and thus a sin to support, and Communion is meant only for those who are, supposedly, at the moment, "clean", it's only logical to deny Communion to those people. Any pro-abortionist can be forgiven, but I don't believe that can happen while they still support abortion. If they repent from their sins--including supporting abortion--then it means they will turn away from them, or at least try to.
Catholic Church's interpreation of the Bible has varied through the centuries. A long time ago, smoking was considered sinful because it was Satanic for smoke to come out of your mouth. When the Sixtine Chapell was originally painted, all the figures were naked, later all were covered because a Pope considered naked figures impure, and finally some were unveiled again while some remain dressed. Now the church is against death penalty, but it during Renaissance they burned Giordano Bruno. I don't remember in whatyear exactly, but at some point of the 15th century, the big discussion was if women had a soul. The interpretation of Ratzinger is a conservative one, simply, he follows the Bible with a dogmatic view on his interpretations. That is not the only interpretation the Catholic Church has given to the Bible, and well, as you know the Catholic Church is divided into lots of fractions: and even though Opus Dei and Franciscanos are Catholic, Opus Dei differs greatly from the Franciscanos. And this Pope is much closer to the Opus Dei, as was the last one.Quote:
I don't apologize if your family is frustrated that the leader of their religion is a strict follower of their religion. If one disagree with the Pope--and thus Catholicism--then the simple solution is to move to another branch of Christianity, or whatever religion caters to that person's beliefs. Being the Pope doesn't mean being nice and trying not to push people away, it means following the Bible, or at least the Catholic Church's interpretation thereof.
Moreover, when he was drafted into the Nazi army at 18, he almost immediately deserted, and was fortunate enough to be caught by Nazis that also opposed the war, so he was allowed to go home to his family. His family was anti-Nazi, from what I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless
this guys gonna die in about 5 years time which will be a waste of pope as according to Nostradamus after this guy theres only 1 more pope
Nostradamus's predictions are a load of bull anyways.
He deserves a fair shot. To the Benedict XVI doomsayers on this thread, I would ask if on being hired for a job position, if you'd like a chance to start performing your new job before being written off as unsuitable? If, after the new pope has gotten comfortable with his new position, he's not what Catholicism needs, then it's fair to say so. The truth is, Benedict is qualified for the job, and was elected w/o controversy. He has yet to burn a homosexual at the stake, or reinstate the inquisition. The time for panic isn't quite yet.
Originally posted by Doomgaze in Bleys' lj:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepho
From CNN:
Ratzinger was born on April 16, 1927, in Marktl Am Inn, Germany. He was the son of a police officer who came from a traditional family of farmers in Lower Bavaria, according to his Vatican biography. Bavaria remains a heavily Catholic region of Germany.
He spent his adolescent years in Traunstein, near the Austrian border, when the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler controlled Germany.
In his memoirs, Ratzinger wrote that school officials enrolled him in the Hitler Youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941.
Membership was compulsory and the officials enrolled his entire class, acting on orders from the Nazi regime, Allen said. Ratzinger said he was soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood.
According to Allen, his family was quietly strongly anti-Nazi, and his father took a series of less significant jobs to stay away from what was happening in Nazi Germany.
During World War II, Ratzinger was drafted into army in 1943, serving in an anti-aircraft unit that tracked Allied bombing raids.
He deserted in the waning months of the war in 1945 and returned to Traunstein, where he was taken prisoner by U.S. troops.
In June 1945, he was released from a POW camp and returned home, this time hitching a ride on a milk truck.
From 1946 to 1951, he studied philosophy and theology at the University of Munich and at another school in Freising.
He was ordained a priest in 1951. In 1953, he received his doctorate in theology. His doctoral thesis was entitled, "The People and House of God in St. Augustine's doctrine of the Church."
Four years later, he was qualified as a university teacher and taught dogma and fundamental theology at four different German universities.
In 1962, at age 35, he was a consultant during Vatican II to Cardinal Frings, a reformer who was the archbishop of Cologne, Germany.
Allen said that as a young priest Ratzinger was on the progressive side of theological debates, but began to shift right after the student revolutions of 1968.
In 1969, he was named professor of dogmatic theology and of the history of dogma at the University of Regensburg, where he was also named vice president.
Just wanted to clear that up for everyone. As for him my thoughts on Benedict, I really dont care to be honest. I hope his papacy goes well, and I hope he doesnt build a Death Star.
Amen.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
Could anybody imagine a cross between Darth Vader's costume and a Pope suit? That'd be hilarious.
Yes, remember Onan. One of the many times specific passages from the Bible are taken out of context. Onan was actually being commanded not to "spill his seed on the ground" ("pull out") so that he and his wife would have a child. Many people see this as one specific instance, not a general command, and don't find anything sinful about contraception between married couples. The Catholic Church, however, does--and that's their beliefs, I'm not ragging on them about that (although there are many parts of Catholic doctrine I disagree with). But is supporting something that goes against the Bible enough to warrant being refused Communion? Well, supporting (or taking part in) something that goes against the Bible...that would be "sinning"... And Communion is supposed to only be for people who have been recently forgiven of past sins, and thus "clean"... So yes, I would imagine it would be enough. If somebody came in and said "You Padre, gimme some of that s***, I'm so thirsty I could lick the sweat of a horse's balls. And some of that bread, too, holy s*** am I starvin'." Should he recieve Communion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Nexus
Another question is...According to the Bible and Christianity, could somebody that lives in sin--be it somebody who is homosexual, or takes birth control, or a serial rapist, or whatever--become a Christian without giving up that sin? (Remember, I'm referring to birth control as a "sin" according to the Catholic church, not all of Christianity.)
I thought that the moment one accepts Jesus Christ as one's savior that all sins were forgiven.
According to Christianity, yes, I believe so. According to Catholicism, for some reason, one must still confess their sins to a priest to be forgiven. I don't know the ins-and-outs of it.
YES! The first thing I thought when I saw a picture of PopeQuote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
PalpatineBenedict was him saying "Soon the rebellion will be crushed and young Skywalker will be one of us."
Firstly, you have to get baptized and go through first reconciliation. Then first communion, then you get confirmed, then get married (to Jesus as a nun or priest, or to a person), and then last rights. Those are the seven sacraments (I'm missing one here). All those are needed in order to be saved, according to my ex-Catholic boyfriend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
As for Christianity, you just have to accept Jesus into your heart, as your savior and all.
Nope, Christianity is a religion with many branches. Catholics believe in cofession, Luterans in the whole thing of accepting Jesus, Anglicans and Orthodox...well, I dunno. I'd like to know the views of the Maradona Church.Quote:
According to Christianity, yes, I believe so. According to Catholicism, for some reason, one must still confess their sins to a priest to be forgiven. I don't know the ins-and-outs of it.
Nope, in Catholicism, it's just if you are under mortal sin, meaning disobeying any of the ten commandments.Quote:
And Communion is supposed to only be for people who have been recently forgiven of past sins, and thus "clean"
Actually he looks more like emperor Palpatine.Quote:
Could anybody imagine a cross between Darth Vader's costume and a Pope suit? That'd be hilarious.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89...ngermalote.jpg
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._pope_s_e_mail
That would be quite a lot of email to read.
Take care all.
he thinks ac/dc is the work of satan and call them anti-chist's...wierd
I' ve just read that the new Pope WAS a Nazi...
I doubt it.
It could be true, I mean, weirder things have happened, and they can't get rid of him now simply cause he's there through God's descision.
Remember, you can renounce your sins.
That's the extent of his Nazi involvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
Anyone else think he looks like Anthony Hopkins(hannibal lecter)
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Co...11a.hlarge.jpg
http://www.caffeeuropa.it/images/49/lecter14.jpg
I'd just like to point out that he's not there through God's decision, he's there through other men's decision. He was voted into office by other high-ranking cardinals and members of the church.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack