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That's awful. They should starve the parents to death.
I bet she was feral. I watched a show about this kinda stuff on the History channel once... She'd have never been anywhere near sane or well-adjusted no matter how much time she was given after that amount of neglect, especially at that age. Poor girl... She probably couldn't comprehend life enough to even know it existed. I suppose that's a good thing...
I don't understand how they're being charged with something as light as manslaughter. I could be suffering from culture shock and misunderstand the severity of the charge, but in America that charge is associated with accidental deaths based on negligence. To call this negligence is to call the Great Depression a time when money was tight.
No, the cat was feral. It was also fed and allowed fresh air.
Jessica was a human being who was locked in a room for five years without light, air or food. She might not have been able to comprehend 'life', but I'm sure as hell she could comprehend pain.
In US law, manslaughter is defined by two different categories: voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary manslaughter requires that the defendant intend to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon the victim, and the victim died as a result of the defendant's actions. Involuntary manslaughter occurs when there is not an intent to kill, and the victim dies due to culpable negligence on the part of the defendant. This crime would most likely be considered involuntary manslaughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
And for the Americans here, how much, in pounds, is a stone and a half?
Oh god. :(
I think he was referring to cases of "feral children" like Genie and more recently with the case of the 17-year-old boy who was starved and kept in a cage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliope
I can't fathom how it's possible for these parents to be this cruel. This inhumane. I mean how? How??
A stone is about 15 pounds...maybe 14, I think. So a stone and a half would be 22 pounds.
Holy hell, this girl weighed less than 25 pounds. Seven years old.
And FoA, I agree, but that's all it would classify as.
I dare say they intended to inflict grievous bodily harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by DocFrance
I don't know if they could prove that in court. Murder would be a pretty hefty charge, but gross negligence would present itself. They might deserve to be punished more, but you've got to go with what you can prove in court.
I don't think you can come up with a convincing defense for locking your child away and starving her to death. One couldn't reasonably say one didn't know what effect these actions would have.
You have a point, but when they're confronted with a murder charge, they could simply say "We didn't mean to kill her, we just didn't care", and that would get them by. Again, it's disguisting and I'm sure we all think they deserve more punishment than they deserve by law, but that's the way it is.
This is an issue with so many areas to look at. I think deep down, what worries me the most is the fact that the parents could claim that they were unaware of what they were doing, perhaps blaming it on alcohol, and COULD actually pull it off because we've become a society that is scared of putting responsibility for people's actions on people. We'd rather blame some sort of external problem such as alcoholism than the parents because it's somehow easier on our conscience.
Though, the other area I wonder about is, are the parents of sound mind? This tragedy would be made ever worse of the parents were actually innocent of the malice and mistreatment of their daughter because they truly were not of sound mind and judgment, but even though I don't know the details of this case aside from this article, I have a feeling that's not the case.
Since this happened in Germany, I don't know what the standards for murder would have to be but I think you could make a case that this was at least aggravated manslaughter and perhaps even Murder 2 if it had happened in the US because there could be proven that the parents had an intent and were well aware of what they were doing to this child. It would be a harder case to win, but it is possible.
This is a terrible, terrible tragedy. I hope all the truth in this case is revealed and those responsible are punished. No child or person deserves this type of treatment. May she rest in peace.
Take care all.
You are right they probably couldn't be successfully tried for murder, but definitely voluntary manslaughter. If you throw in some child neglect charges I'm sure they could get a hefty punishment.
I'm sure the prosecution could argue that the couple knew that starvation leads to death, and thus knew that their actions or inactions would result in the child's death.
Disturbing... and the sick thing is, you probably couldn't stick a higher charge on them. But, at the same time, a jury is twelve "peers"... in this case, I think it should be twelve PARENTS... and they'd probably convict on emotion, not the case. I know what my feelings would be: "Can I be the one to inject the needle?"
Then again, I'm American. I don't actually know how the German system works.
Just to be clear, one of the first things that's taught in substance abuse classes is that while you MAY have a problem outside yourself that other people don't understand, and while this problem MAY be very difficult to control, it is controllable. In other words, just because you're an alcoholic doesn't mean you don't have a choice, and doesn't mean you're unaware of that choice. In other words, throwing you hands in the air and saying "I can't help it! I'm an alcoholic." doesn't get you very far, legally speaking. Because there's always help, if you choose to take it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
So I think the only way their apparent alcoholism would factor into a case such as this would be to even further prove their irresponsibility. While that DOES serve as a blow to recovering alcoholics the world over, and to the view of alcoholism as a legitimate physical condition, it's nothing but the truth.
That's just smurfing horrible. :(
I agree. All too often things like alcoholism are considered a disability, or a handicap. Even by law. It's the "we-can't-offend-people" attitude that's so popular in this country. Again, however, this happened in Germany, so I don't know how it'll be dealt with, and I don't know much about their court systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
And when did this start? O_oQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
That's just depressing.
I can't imagine being in so much pain that I would have to eat my own hair, or my carpet. This is the first time in a long time where I actually feel that these parents should be punished for the sole purpose of being punished. The fact that this happens is not okay.
This has pretty much ruined my mood...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
That is awful.
i didnt know it was possible for a person to survive 5 years without food :eek:
that terrible
Forget the needle. Lethal injection is too good for them. Stoning, anyone?Quote:
I know what my feelings would be: "Can I be the one to inject the needle?"
I like not knowing about these things. Isn't it much nicer to just be the bad guy. That way you don't really have anything to cpmplain about.
People like that shouldn't be allowed to live.
I'm still up for the needle. How about we compromise and fill the needle with pulp-free orange juice? It'd kill, eventually....Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara
That's sick. I mean it, not as in kind of disgusting but actually morally wrong. How can people treat anyone like that, let alone their own child? Im not sure if I should cry or be angry.
That works.Quote:
I'm still up for the needle. How about we compromise and fill the needle with pulp-free orange juice? It'd kill, eventually....
I did both. I will never understand that level of cruelty. Evil is the only word that fits.Quote:
That's sick. I mean it, not as in kind of disgusting but actually morally wrong. How can people treat anyone like that, let alone their own child? Im not sure if I should cry or be angry.
Yeah, and then make sure you do it to yourselves afterwards. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by udsuna
I'm sure the parents will recieve minimal punishment. Justice these days is so focused on the rights of the criminal, that the best interests of the victim are all but tossed out the window. Punishments that would fit the crime are discarded for lukewarm politically correct punishments because society can't stomache real justice. Who knows - maybe the parents won't be punished at all. They could be sent to a psychological hospital and attempt to be reformed or "cured". That would be great. Punishment would be too barbaric. Reform should be society's goal here. So the parents starved a little girl in about as cruel a manner as can be concieved - at this point in a thread of this nature, "who are we to judge?" usually pops up somewhere - I'm suprised it hasn't popped up yet. All sarcasm aside, I'm all for cruel and unusual punishments for cruel and unusual crimes, and this fits the bill. Let's hope none of what I talked about actually comes to pass, and that Germany acts in the interest of retribution. Retribution is what's best for the victim (even dead victims). The victim is always more important than the criminal.
Thats horrifying. Poor jessica. You serious. I mean I didn't see anything about her being locked in the room, but thats still messed up. I wish the parents burn in hell and for satan to kill them slowly as in hunger and everything. Even harm them in a way. I hope he burns them from the soul inside to the outside and see how they like tormenting. Look who's tormented now. I hope jessica finda it better in heaven as I know she is there as of she has not done nothing for this to happen. Amen...Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliope
What the hell.......her parents should be locked up without lights,nourishment of any kind,& without any attention.To see how it feels for THEM.But,too bad,they lost a life & even if they punished them,That will not bring back Jessica.
Bottom line-They should die,& be in a place where they won't see her.
Yeah theres the difference. They're in hell, she's in heaven...
Exactly.Quote:
I'm all for cruel and unusual punishments for cruel and unusual crimes, and this fits the bill.
That...makes no sense to me. o__OQuote:
I'm all for cruel and unusual punishments for cruel and unusual crimes, and this fits the bill.